153431 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Exactly. She wants you to allow for the idea of her god or her force at work, but at no point does she suggest she would be willing to do the same for yours.
 
That's my problem.

Well... she's second or third in command to the Pope. The elves don't even proselytize so I'm not sure what they'd do with a shemlen who showed up for the ritual fire.
 

This is most certainly not what we signed up for, so it's not fair acting like attending the Conclave somehow meant we "asked for" being signed onto the Andrastian religion.)

Wait, what? I'm saying it shouldn't be a surprise that you find Andrastians at an Andrastian party.

I don't like completely inflexible characters, as we discussed with Vivienne, but Cassandra's definitely not that, and I do like characters who don't just bend to the PC's whims. Some people hate Solas because he disagrees with them, and Morrigan is far more strident in dismissing the elven gods than Cassandra, but they're all helping anyway so I don't see the big deal if Cassandra mutters something insensitive. She's nervous and just wants to get on with the hacking things apart.

Oh, and about making Leliana Divine instead... recall that Leliana was amazed that your Dalish Warden wasn't kidnapping babies or robbing passers-by.

[Mims]

Also..I don't see how killing Solas could be optional. He's a god...you don't just kill a god without something big happening to the world. The next Dragon Age games would be difficult since they would have to pretty much make two games, one for people who killed him and one for people who didn't.

 

I doubt Solas is all that powerful. At least to the point that you would need to make two world states. He's never going to rule over Thedas or anything to that extent. He can't be more powerful than Flemeth, and we hardly see her. 

[MoonDrummer]

Also..I don't see how killing Solas could be optional. He's a god...you don't just kill a god without something big happening to the world. The next Dragon Age games would be difficult since they would have to pretty much make two games, one for people who killed him and one for people who didn't.

Killing the dread wolf in a dlc would just seem like a ridiculous waste.

[RynJ]

While I wouldn't quit playing BioWare games or anything if we had to kill Solas, it would definitely leave a sour taste in my mouth about the Dragon Age series and I'd never be able to fully enjoy Solas' character again. Which means replays of DAI wouldn't happen.

 

Mass Effect's ending still has me tetchy towards the series, for example. I still like it a lot and am actually replaying it right now but it's not the same. The original love isn't there anymore. On a smaller and more petty note, I can't enjoy the character of Joker anymore after his, IMO, creepy romance with EDI (and after a romance with him for Shepard was denied, darn it). That's probably how I would feel if they did Solas' character such a disservice.

[jellobell]

I don't think so. It's no different than any of the other ridiculously sad endings that exist in media.  And that would NOT be the most tragic one I've ever seen/thought of - did anyone read the Babes in Toyland arc of Fables? Christ, talk about tragic.  killing your own LI is - unfortunately - an incredibly common trope.

True, but there's something different about watching something tragic play out and participating in it. Video games are a medium where you, the player, take an active role in what is happening. Which makes the idea of the Inquisitor, the character we control, killing Solas infinitely worse than it would be in any other form of media. The player is in essence being forced to kill the man they love with their own hands. That is Not Okay, and I think that's why Bioware has shied away from that trope for the most part, or has always given the player a choice when it comes up.

 

That's why I said that I'd just put the controller down. I just wouldn't be able to participate in that. I might be able to watch it in a movie, or read it in a book. But killing a character I love so much myself would be crossing the line. Other video games have used this quirk of the medium to tell amazing stories (I've killed sympathetic NPCs in games before), but Bioware games get you so personally involved with these characters, especially party members, and LIs even moreso, that I think this is the one instance where I just wouldn't be able to do it.

 

*sighs* And now I just know I am going to be banned, which is sad because I was just starting to feel safe here, but this has to be said, so, just in case... goodnight and goodbye, I guess. It truly was lovely to meet all of you, regardless of where we stood on this particular issue. Dareth shiral, and may you get all your fanfic and dlc desires.

Wait, what? Why would you be banned? I responded to a post of yours, and you've been perfectly polite while explaining your point. I just find the idea of re-interpretations of myths and stories to be very interesting. Plus, it's rather relevant to the topic at hand, given that Solas himself has been so badly misinterpreted over the years.

[NightSymphony]

I doubt Solas is all that powerful. At least to the point that you would need to make two world states. He's never going to rule over Thedas or anything to that extent. He can't be more powerful than Flemeth, and we hardly see her. 

Yes..but she is doing all kinds of things in the background. She may be dead now and the world will suffer for it. If she hadn't been around to save Hawke or the Warden..well... things sure would be different.

[zambixi]

That would be kind of a great alternate ending. World comes full cycle.

 

I really do wish they'd have some...'alternate universe' style endings? I don't want to say non-canon, because they'd be canon. Just endings that we knew weren't going to expand into future games. 

 

I think that's basically what happens with the boons from DA:O. Aren't the Dalish supposed to have part of the Brecilian Forest? Yet for some reason Merrill's clan fled Ferelden to go to the Free Marches? I don't find those particularly satisfying, because I feel like that by not expanding, the games end up acting like those choices never happened. At least if they're big decisions.

 

 

 

I don't think my canon Lavellan could kill Solas, or that she would really have any reason to. She pretty much cares about "her people" - the elves and the Inquisition - and no one else. If Solas is helping the elves then she'll have no qualms with him. He'd have to be doing some objectively bad stuff and even then she'd have a hard time justifying his execution.

[Valeria Lavellan]

I doubt Solas is all that powerful. At least to the point that you would need to make two world states. He's never going to rule over Thedas or anything to that extent. He can't be more powerful than Flemeth, and we hardly see her. 

I don't think he wants to rule when he spent his time alone. I guess he just wants to bring his people to the "Elven Glory" they used to be and let someone else rule it. I don't see him the type to rule or enforce himself on others...well, for now.

[redbowlingball]

Lets put it this way. I say all sorts of things in anger that I probably shouldn't. For instance, calling women bitches. Actually, I do this even when not angered, lol, and it offends people all the time. But most people get the context of when I use it. In anger though, obviously the context is different.

 

Then there's calling someone a p ussy and so on.

 

Now, I know I'm not the only one that does this. I don't hate women because of it and it doesn't reflect how I feel about women at all.

 

Hmm. If what you call people doesn't reflect how you feel about them, and it causes people offence, why persist in doing it? 

 

I have a bad temper, but I am also capable of controlling what I say to the point of not flinging insults like those around. 

 

By the way, sexist language like that does kind of imply that you have sexist attitudes. You've been demonstrating them in subtle ways throughout this thread. I'm sure others have picked up on it. It kind of puts a damper on the thread for me. Even this comment, it feels like a deliberate needle, made to rile us up. You know a lot of women read this thread, why throw something like that into the fray? Especially when you've already been accused of sexism on here? 

[flabbadence]

:[ Well, it was fun while it lasted. I can't say I'm surprised though. Tumblr is one of the nastier communities I've seen. 

 

Yep. It's fun and enlightening the first few weeks, but after that it's best to just hunker down with a few people you like interacting with. Someone famous like Gaider can't have that luxury though.

[Siha]

The use of the blight as a biological weapon buried deep underground is also really intriguing, perhaps that's why whenever someone goes deep underground they get infected and why the old gods who are down there are so deformed and corrupted? It works so efficiently from what we've seen- the spread rate, both through the body and between people. I'm still a little confused about how contagious it is though, because Hawk was around darkspawn a lot and was covered in their blood (along with the rest of the party) and they never got the disease.  Yet people in the rest of the DA universe (Crestwood) seem to imply its really contagious. 

Seriously, that's the magic working. The Blight is highly contagious - unless it serves the story that people are not infected. Not much consistency there. Hawkes sibling will die extremely quickly of the taint, Felix has had it for a while an still looks all normal, then dies suddenly. Hawke and her friends, as well as the whole non-Warden crew of the Hero are not affected, also not a single inhabitant of Redcliff village gets tainted during the siege/battle. Actually (here I might be mistaken, I have no proof) during all of DAO the issue of infection did not come up (other than for the ritual and there it served another purpose.) Darkspawn killed by means or arrow and sword. Were the taint so contagious they could have just coughed or spat at their enemies. Only in DA2 did I really start to see the taint as an infectious disease.
I do not know how far BioWare planned this story, maybe the first game is rather stand-alone. But I think they have not really decided everything yet and still change a few foundations.

[Sah291]

Dying together is the tragic romance trope that I don't think BioWare has done yet (except in KOTOR, and that had to be restored via mod, I think).  Oh god, if they do that with Solas and Lavellan...I will just be a fountain of tears.  And then I will write all the AU fic because there *has* to be some world in which they can be happy and together.

I would have liked that ending for Mass Effect actually. Shepard dying and leaving Garrus behind on some weird planet just felt so wrong...if any couple was destined to die on the battle field together it was them.

[Illyria]

I actually rather agree. Since Thedas religion and cultural factions reflect real-world ones, I relate a lot to the elves. I am from a very small minority religion that is in danger of being assimilated into the larger, mainstream Western World religion (aka Euro-centric Christianity), so I understand the elves' terror of losing their heritage, traditions, and/or cultural identity. I understand the Dalish's desire to preserve their religion, history and culture in a world where they are a fraction of a percentage of a minority, in a large hostile world that wants to convert and assimilate them at best, wipe them out at worst.

 

(Btw, I really hate BioWare presenting Thedas cultures that are in danger of experiencing cultural entropy as people who're backwards, stuck in the past, disconnected from the present, and needing to just give up and move on. Um, no, **** you, Bioware. If you are not part of a real culture and/or religion that is in danger of being wiped out forever, you have no right to judge people who do want to preserve everything they are in a world that wants to change them.)

 

Being part of a minority religion that is dying from assimilation into Christianity / modern secularism myself, I also get irritated with Andrastian human characters who try to push their Andrastian views on non-Andrastian characters (though particularly minority religions/cultures like the dwarves or Dalish elves), and the game doesn't point out how ethnocentric or insensitive they are.

 

Every time I see this exchange...

 

Cassandra: I'm curious; do you even believe in the Maker?

Lavellan: I'm Dalish. I believe in our own gods.

Cassandra: And there is not room among your gods for one more?

 

I think: Excuse you? Who outlawed who's religion?! "Your god" is worshiped across the corners of Thedas, but we elves have no nation, no cultural security, and no safe place of worship to call our own. We Dalish live on the run, moving from place to place, almost specifically so the worshipers of your god don't catch us and force us to convert to worshiping "your god." When was the last time an elf tried to force humans to worship elven gods? That's what I thought. We respect your right to worship whatever god you want, just as long as we can be left alone to worship our own. Why can't you show us the same courtesy?

 

To quote Merrill after Anders tries to force his Andrastian views on her one too many times: Your "Maker" is a story you humans use to explain to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours.

 

P.S. While I do like and respect Cassandra and Giselle a great deal (and many Andrastian humans, for that matter), and I know they're good people, remarkably accepting and open-minded, don't try to force the PC to see religion their way, blah blah blah, I do find it annoying that they constantly undermine a Dalish Inquisitor's faith in his/her own religion. I wouldn't even mind that so much except the game doesn't really let you call them out on it. 

I think the problem with DAI is that it was written for a human originally.  If the game had been planned from the start to have multiple races then maybe the dialouge choices would be different.

 

I really wish that post-Haven (right before the Dawn Will Come scene) there was an option to say that you're looking to the elven gods/the Stone/trying to find something in the Qun rather than just Andrastian or atheist.  I actually found it pretty hard to roleplay as a religous Dalish (although I did love the converstation you can have with Sera after the Temple of Mythal that lets you say that you believe in the Creators over the the Maker).

[Avejajed]

If Buffy can kill Angel, my Lavellan can kill Solas.

[Kryllian]

*sighs* And now I just know I am going to be banned, which is sad because I was just starting to feel safe here, but this has to be said, so, just in case... goodnight and goodbye, I guess. It truly was lovely to meet all of you, regardless of where we stood on this particular issue. Dareth shiral, and may you get all your fanfic and dlc desires.

Why would you be banned for expressing how you feel? Plenty of people get upset when messing with other religions/ancestors. You have legitimate points. Glad you can share your thoughts on the topic. I wouldn't have seen it that way if you hadn't brought it up, so thanks for the new input on the subject. I personally think that it's cool to write new stories based on well known characters, but respect for the original material needs to be clear. I mean, if they made a movie with Jesus as a superhero, tons of people would be pissed, so I don't see why you shouldn't be upset. Sorry, a bit ramble, but I'm trying to pay attention in class too

[Siha]

Solas: "Oh ye of little faith."

*drops robe*

Where did you get my picture from?! O_O I told you not to make that public!

[Mims]

I do not know how far BioWare planned this story, maybe the first game is rather stand-alone. But I think they have not really decided everything yet and still change a few foundations.

 

Allegedly, Dragon Age has a ridiculous amount of preplanning. Several years worth. Gaidar has said more or less that everything with the elven gods was on the books from the start. So I am guessing that the larger background things, like the blight, have been figured out. Or at least one would hope. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Hmm. If what you call people doesn't reflect how you feel about them, and it causes people offence, why persist in doing it? 

 

I have a bad temper, but I am also capable of controlling what I say to the point of not flinging insults like those around. 

 

By the way, sexist language like that does kind of imply that you have sexist attitudes. You've been demonstrating them in subtle ways throughout this thread. I'm sure others have picked up on it. It kind of puts a damper on the thread for me. Even this comment, it feels like a deliberate needle, made to rile us up. You know a lot of women read this thread, why throw something like that into the fray? Especially when you've already been accused of sexism on here? 

Ahhh lol, I should not have brought up sexism, sigh...

 

First because I really don't care about people's feelings enough to limit what words I can and can't use in an informal place. If anyone's that sensitive, then I don't really want to get to know them anyway.

 

And no, my language doesn't imply that I'm sexist, and like I said before, if someone actually thinks I'm being sexist, they're going to have to point it out.

 

Half the time I've said ******, it was in a joking manor, and teasing with the Scumbag Solas jokes.

[Elven_Glory]

Honestly, the only thing that keeps me waivering toward team optimism is the idea of the hierophant card being the romance card and what that could mean for the relationship.

http://www.tarotwiki...d-love-meaning/

especially:
"The Hierophant often represents two people who are in a teaching/mentoring role and they are both passionate about sharing their knowledge with the world. They are two people who share a similar life purpose and have a special connection due to this. They encourage each other. They often end up travelling together, and they often stay very young at heart, always looking for a new experience to share with each other."

" You are encouraged to go after your dream, but not on your own, you are sharing a dream with your significant other. Together you will manifest something of both spiritual and material value."

But it really depends on how much value is placed on the meaning of the card in a romantic situation as opposed to being for Solas alone. Which I guess is the question. Still, it gives me hope that someday Solas will return to my Lavellan because she.... is the key... in multiple ways.

In which case, he may return to our dear Lavellan with words something like these:


Sanctus Real: I'm Not Alright

[jellobell]

I would have liked that ending for Mass Effect actually. Shepard dying and leaving Garrus behind on some weird planet just felt so wrong...if any couple was destined to die on the battle field together it was them.

Yep. Garrus was why my Shepards always lived.

[Illyria]

Oh, F*CK NO!!

 

They had BETTER NOT do that!

 

If we can spare F*CKING LOGHAIN, and the ARCHITECT, and ANDERS, and Abelas, we can spare Solas!

 

If they force us to kill Solas, I am calling such BULLSH*T and racist ethnocentrism. There is no excuse, considering what other morally grey anti-villains with dubious motivations we were allowed to spare in the past!

 

EDIT: Sorry for my vehement response. I'm not mad at you. I wouldn't be surprised if BioWare did that, and I don't blame you for guessing it. I just... really, really, really hope we won't!

 

This so much.

 

I do have faith that Solas wont be flat out evil, though.  Weekes said that the romance was to show what a tragic character he is.  If they meant to just have him in DA4 as a villian with no chance of redemption then they wouldn't have included him as an LI.  If Anders gets a chance to be happy then so should Solas.
 

[Valeria Lavellan]

My nuggalope knows more than I do: 

Spoiler

 

Edit: Also I drew this, I was thinking of putting a disturbed or an angry Lavellan next to it or riding it. --Angry face after the break-up on top of her all knowing nuggalope.

[Wheels]

Ugh,... Seriously, there is just so much one can take.

My canon Lavellan is probably the one protagonist that lost the most in the cause of her respective game. Even my Hawke had her LI and her brother left, but Lavellan... Clan, family & friends, her faith, her lover... all gone. I wanted to play her as a hero-type, all for helping people (I will never use those words again without thinking of Cole <.<). But then the game hit her with all this sh*t...

And now I wonder. All that, and your people being opressed, and dealing with mages so powerful people would accept them as gods? That's a hell of a lot to deal with! The more I think about it, the more I expect she'd protect Solas, be "selfish", just this once.

It can't be *that* bad, right...?

[Oswin]

Moral of the story is do what you want to do, not what makes your teammates happy

 

Though conscripting the mages gets the most consistently positive response from her.

 

I am running with a pretty thorough game plan/headcanon so I was always going to disband the order and sod what my team think. I was just surprised she disapproved when she seemed so against the order.

Although everyone but Sera and Solas disapproved. 

So elves agreeing with my elf. How elfy. Sera would disapprove to realise that

[WildSky214]

Honestly, the only thing that keeps me waivering toward team optimism is the idea of the hierophant card being the romance card and what that could mean for the relationship.

http://www.tarotwiki...d-love-meaning/

especially:
"The Hierophant often represents two people who are in a teaching/mentoring role and they are both passionate about sharing their knowledge with the world. They are two people who share a similar life purpose and have a special connection due to this. They encourage each other. They often end up travelling together, and they often stay very young at heart, always looking for a new experience to share with each other."

" You are encouraged to go after your dream, but not on your own, you are sharing a dream with your significant other. Together you will manifest something of both spiritual and material value."

But it really depends on how much value is placed on the meaning of the card in a romantic situation as opposed to being for Solas alone. Which I guess is the question. Still, it gives me hope that someday Solas will return to my Lavellan because she.... is the key... in multiple ways.

In which case, he may return to our dear Lavellan with words something like these:


Sanctus Real: I'm Not Alright

This is hope inspiring!