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[laurelinvanyar]

Ready to put your tinfoil hat on, ladies and gents? 

 

So...the Solas chatzy thought really hard on this question: Why did the meaning of harellan change from "noble struggle" to "traitor to one's kin" in the Towers Age?

 

So far, here is our theory. The Towers Age is the age directly after the Glory Age, when the 2nd Exalted March and the fall of the Dales took place. During this time period the elves were told to convert to Andraste and the Maker, or be killed. Those elves that now call themselves Dalish take an oath to hold to their ancient beliefs. 

 

So how did Fen'harel go from the noble rebel to the traitor? We theorize that the change was deliberate. 

 

All modern Dalish lore is known to have come from Keeper Gisharel of Clan Ralaferin. This is mentioned in a codex found in the Emerald Graves on the body of a scholar:

 

 

“These appear to be the scribbled notes of a scholar named Erwine Cavy. The elements have ruined most of the writing:

…ow many times have I sought information on the Dalish only to find that it is, once again, a tale told by “Keeper Gishrael of the Raladerin Clan”? We can’t have one keeper from years ago be our sole source of knowledge on the Dalish. There must be other voices in the Dalish clans. Other voices that…

 The elves cannot all be as hostile as most would… A dark smear obscures the writing… conclude that is it our prejudice speaking, when we repeat these damaging untrut…

 …when I return, the university will finally acknowledge my contributions to Theodosian history. Ferdinand Genitivi, step aside!

 …remarkably difficult to locate. I’m walking in circles. But take heart, Erwine! This is all for a good cause. There must be someone in the forest who can point me to the Dalish. I’ll ask the next person I come…”

 

To have only one source of Dalish lore that contrasts so strongly to previous interpretations (at least in the case of Fen'Harel) sounds suspiciously like a coverup. But why have a coverup at all? 

 

We theorize that after the fall of the Dales, a new elven "narrative" was crafted specifically to raise Dalish morale. In order to do that, the elven pantheon must seem good and just, and their imprisonment a terrible crime. Unfortunately for Fen'Harel, he was there to take the fall. 

 

Many thanks to Jadestone, Moondancer, and everybody else who contributed to this crack-brained post

[Sable Rhapsody]

Don't mind me, you've just all reduced me to a puddle of emotions.

 

The powers of the Solas thread combined add up to 1 Weekes of feels.  I'd say that's pretty good 

[Caddius]

 

Ready to put your tinfoil hat on, ladies and gents? 

 

So...the Solas chatzy thought really hard on this question: Why did the meaning of harellan change from "noble struggle" to "traitor to one's kin" in the Towers Age?

 

So far, here is our theory. The Towers Age is the age directly after the Glory Age, when the 2nd Exalted March and the fall of the Dales took place. During this time period the elves were told to convert to Andraste and the Maker, or be killed. Those elves that now call themselves Dalish take an oath to hold to their ancient beliefs. 

 

So how did Fen'harel go from the noble rebel to the traitor? We theorize that the change was deliberate. 

 

All modern Dalish lore is known to have come from Keeper Gisharel of Clan Ralaferin. This is mentioned in a codex found in the Emerald Graves on the body of a scholar:

 

 

“These appear to be the scribbled notes of a scholar named Erwine Cavy. The elements have ruined most of the writing:

…ow many times have I sought information on the Dalish only to find that it is, once again, a tale told by “Keeper Gishrael of the Raladerin Clan”? We can’t have one keeper from years ago be our sole source of knowledge on the Dalish. There must be other voices in the Dalish clans. Other voices that…

 The elves cannot all be as hostile as most would… A dark smear obscures the writing… conclude that is it our prejudice speaking, when we repeat these damaging untrut…

 …when I return, the university will finally acknowledge my contributions to Theodosian history. Ferdinand Genitivi, step aside!

 …remarkably difficult to locate. I’m walking in circles. But take heart, Erwine! This is all for a good cause. There must be someone in the forest who can point me to the Dalish. I’ll ask the next person I come…”

 

To have only one source of Dalish lore that contrasts so strongly to previous interpretations (at least in the case of Fen'Harel) sounds suspiciously like a coverup. But why have a coverup at all? 

 

We theorize that after the fall of the Dales, a new elven "narrative" was crafted specifically to raise Dalish morale. In order to do that, the elven pantheon must seem good and just, and their imprisonment a terrible crime. Unfortunately for Fen'Harel, he was there to take the fall. 

 

Many thanks to Jadestone, Moondancer, and everybody else who contributed to this crack-brained post

 

Very interesting theory.

Have you dropped it off at Vir'dirthan Wiki?

I'm very curious about Ralaferin Clan and Keeper Gisharel. Also when, exactly, the story of Fen'harel sealing away the gods came around. Is it really so (relatively) recent as the fall of the Dales?

[panamakira]

I don't suppose they've got a Solas card in there? I might have to get myself a deck. *HOPE RENEWED* 

I get it this week. Just ordered it over the weekend. I'll upload if there's anything good but I'm guessing Solas is in there. I saw Dorian and Morrigan in the deck photos.

[laurelinvanyar]

Very interesting theory.

Have you dropped it off at Vir'dirthan Wiki?

I'm very curious about Ralaferin Clan and Keeper Gisharel. Also when, exactly, the story of Fen'harel sealing away the gods came around. Is it really so (relatively) recent as the fall of the Dales?

The Towers Age, when the translation of Harellan changed, was only 600 years before present day. It surprised me too. 

[Renmiri1]

ok not just  Solas but I want to go to bed on a cheery note, so have some dancing alibear and solas

 

 

 

 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.

[laurelinvanyar]

Ok, theory is now on Vir'Dirthan wiki

[Jadestone]

Very interesting theory.

Have you dropped it off at Vir'dirthan Wiki?

I'm very curious about Ralaferin Clan and Keeper Gisharel. Also when, exactly, the story of Fen'harel sealing away the gods came around. Is it really so (relatively) recent as the fall of the Dales?

 

The note about Keeper Gisharel is what's super interesting to me. If you look at our Codex entries by him, you'll see that he is almost the sole resource on the Elven pantheon--all the entries for the gods & both for Arlathan were written by him (here's his list of entries)

 

There's not much information about the dude himself though, other than that he was Keeper for the Ralaferin (that I could find at least). He doesn't have his own page in the wiki, though he's mentioned in the "Keepers" article & those sources. If there is more, someone please link me!! I really wanna know. We have a bit more info about the Clan since it's where the multiplayer characters are from, but not much on Gisharel specifically.

 

It's worth noting he also authored the information on Vallaslin. So: we know already that he got one thing majorly wrong. 

 

So: was he just misinformed about the gods? Or deliberate reshaping of Elven mythology in order to provide guidance/hope for a now fragmented & dying people? Unfortunately, we don't know where Gisharel got HIS information from. It's possible he was misled, or unknowingly spread things that weren't true. But since the game specifically has someone questioning him as a source of information, idk, it seems like a hint to me that more is up with that?

 

I'm not 100% sure what, but I enjoy putting on the tinfoil hat & calling it suspicious. 

 

Also worth note is that Tevinter may have tried to twist Elven mythology themselves after their enslavement/before their uprising. Can't have a god of Rebellion being idolized by the people you're forcing to work for you! It could be possible that the reformatting of Elvhen lore began even before the elves reclaimed independence, but without access to tevinter libraries/resources, wouldn't know about the alterations (if there were even records of this sort of thing).

 

ETA 2: also this:

If we DO consider the tevinter-imperium-deliberately-reshaping-elven-mythology angle:

 

By transforming him into a trickster god, they not only get rid of "rebellion" as a theme but turn him into someone to be distrusted & wary of. This way, if any lore DOES survive intact, Elvish slaves are still unlikely to trust it--it could just be another of Fen'harel's tricks to mess with them again. Get rid of the idol for uprising as well as aquire a scapegoat, two birds, 1 stone, etc.

 

(ETA 1: my grasp of timing for things is not foolproof, I don't have that darn timeline memorized as well as most of you so my theories may grow leakier with more research)

[Suketchi]

ok not just  Solas but I want to go to bed on a cheery note, so have some dancing alibear and solas

 

 

 

 

 

[panamakira]

Meanwhile, all this talk about elven literacy is just reminding me that Fenris wouldn't have been able to read that letter from Varric if Hawke hadn't taught him to read.  *weeps eternally*

Oh noooo.

[laurelinvanyar]

So I was thinking about this myself... in my write up of Tyrdda Bright-Axe that I have yet to finish... at one point, Tyrdda takes her tribe up into the mountains in an attempt to save them, but once they find safety they're attacked by a dragon no weapon or blade can slay (sounds familiar, doesn't it).

You know what? Here's the verse:

 

An interesting thing of note is the reference to snow as a "winter gown" - a striking feminization of the harsh Frostbacks the Avvar later thank for toughening them up. The only other time I can think of this being done in Dragon Age is in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, where Disciple Havard (who took Andraste's ashes and hid them in the Frostbacks) asks you in his riddle,  "The bones of the world stretch towards the sky's embrace. Veiled in white, like a bride greeting her groom. Of what do I speak?" The answer is, of course, The mountains.

 

I need to finish my write up. Because there is so much I need to say but I have to do it stanza by stanza or else this will be a hot mess.

Lizasaurus, I am so looking forward to reading this

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Caddius]

So I was thinking about this myself... in my write up of Tyrdda Bright-Axe that I have yet to finish... at one point, Tyrdda takes her tribe up into the mountains in an attempt to save them, but once they find safety they're attacked by a dragon no weapon or blade can slay (sounds familiar, doesn't it).

You know what? Here's the verse:

 

An interesting thing of note is the reference to snow as a "winter gown" - a striking feminization of the harsh Frostbacks the Avvar later thank for toughening them up. The only other time I can think of this being done in Dragon Age is in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, where Disciple Havard (who took Andraste's ashes and hid them in the Frostbacks) asks you in his riddle,  "The bones of the world stretch towards the sky's embrace. Veiled in white, like a bride greeting her groom. Of what do I speak?" The answer is, of course, The mountains.

 

I need to finish my write up. Because there is so much I need to say but I have to do it stanza by stanza or else this will be a hot mess.

The lines about 'parting pains' and 'blades dulled by farming' suggests that Tyrdda was the one who led the Avvar in their split from the Alamarri on the Bannorn and Lake Calenhad. Muy interesante. That would put this story in 5785, a few centuries before the Neromenians formed kingdoms, much less the Imperium. So the leaf-earred lover=Mythal theories would hold that the Creators did interfere in human affairs. Hmm. *strokes beard and cat*

EDIT: Liz, maybe put each stanza under its own spoiler so that those with weak wills ( ) can take it a stanza at a time? But still all under one post? And of course putting it on the wiki for reference post-haste. Would that work?

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[panamakira]

Andraste's dimpled buttcheeks! Just went to find tarot cards on eBay and I almost fainted. Also someone is selling the playing cards deck for $27 when you can buy it for $7 on the BW store.

 

Yeah....

[Caddius]

Oh, just wait for the **** storm I'm about to unleash about this being before the Imperium. You know what? Gonna write it right now. Give me... a BIT. I will release stanza by stanza and link to the previous ones. Then big post where you can find it all.

http://allthesuperna...eady-queue-wind

I can't figure out how to just send the GIF.

[Rabbitonfire]

Andraste's dimpled buttcheeks! Just went to find tarot cards on eBay and I almost fainted. Also someone is selling the playing cards deck for $27 when you can buy it for $7 on the BW store.

 

Yeah....

eh, I don't feel bad for suckers who didn't research.

[laurelinvanyar]

The note about Keeper Gisharel is what's super interesting to me. If you look at our Codex entries by him, you'll see that he is almost the sole resource on the Elven pantheon--all the entries for the gods & both for Arlathan were written by him (here's his list of entries)

 

There's not much information about the dude himself though, other than that he was Keeper for the Ralaferin (that I could find at least). He doesn't have his own page in the wiki, though he's mentioned in the "Keepers" article & those sources. If there is more, someone please link me!! I really wanna know. We have a bit more info about the Clan since it's where the multiplayer characters are from, but not much on Gisharel specifically.

 

It's worth noting he also authored the information on Vallaslin. So: we know already that he got one thing majorly wrong. 

 

So: was he just misinformed about the gods? Or deliberate reshaping of Elven mythology in order to provide guidance/hope for a now fragmented & dying people? Unfortunately, we don't know where Gisharel got HIS information from. It's possible he was misled, or unknowingly spread things that weren't true. But since the game specifically has someone questioning him as a source of information, idk, it seems like a hint to me that more is up with that?

 

I'm not 100% sure what, but I enjoy putting on the tinfoil hat & calling it suspicious. 

 

Also worth note is that Tevinter may have tried to twist Elven mythology themselves after their enslavement/before their uprising. Can't have a god of Rebellion being idolized by the people you're forcing to work for you! It could be possible that the reformatting of Elvhen lore began even before the elves reclaimed independence, but without access to tevinter libraries/resources, wouldn't know about the alterations (if there were even records of this sort of thing).

 

(ETA: my grasp of timing for things is not foolproof, I don't have that darn timeline memorized as well as most of you so my theories may grow leakier with more research)

Jade we should have had you write it, you're much better at explaining

[HurricaneGinger]

I want to share a happy headcanon - I'm in need of one, and since people are sharing theirs, why not.

 

Terrwyn used to sing when she was younger, and she would sing for the children in her clan, until one day she simply stopped. In the Inquisition she would hum her favorite songs as they traveled or during downtime, but never too loud. It was a source of comfort for her, a familiarity in a strange world. When Varric brings it up, Terrwyn laughs it off but never elaborates on it. Since then, Solas wants to hear her sing.

 

For a long time he waits, content with hearing her hum softly as they pick herbs or read. Dorian and Iron Bull try to get her drunk and sing tavern songs, but even then Terrwyn doesn't crack a single note. Solas starts to wonder if singing is connected to something more personal than just a simple consideration for their ears. 

 

Later, she tells him that her father used to sing to her. The past tense was enough, and Solas ensured no one bothered her about her voice again.

 

It all changes at the Winter Palace. They crept away on a hidden balcony to dance away from prying eyes, but close enough to hear the band play. At one point late into the night she bows her head, quietly considering something. Solas waits for her, concerned over the sudden silence. Perhaps the night's events were harder on her than she let on; she has a habit of withholding her emotions, as much as he does. But when Terrwyn looks up again, there is a soft resolution in her eyes that peaks Solas' curiosity. Then she takes a breath...and sings to him:

 

 

After that, she saves her voice for when they are alone. Reading, patrolling, or under her covers ready to drift off into the Fade, she sings as freely as any bird. The songs are happy, sorrowful, and sometimes silly; sometimes downright filthy, and Solas wonders where she learned such limericks (perhaps Sera). But none of it bothers him, because as he tells her stories of the Fade, this is her exchange. It is their own, odd, round-about way of communicating something deeper between them without actually saying, and he would not have it any other way.

[panamakira]

eh, I don't feel bad for suckers who didn't research.

lol harsh but true

[Suketchi]

Andraste's dimpled buttcheeks! Just went to find tarot cards on eBay and I almost fainted. Also someone is selling the playing cards deck for $27 when you can buy it for $7 on the BW store.

 

Yeah....

 

THEY'RE EVIL

[Valeria Lavellan]

Does anyone know what is the inquisitor's fear? Spiders? You're afraid of spiders?

[nikki-tikki]

Meanwhile, all this talk about elven literacy is just reminding me that Fenris wouldn't have been able to read that letter from Varric if Hawke hadn't taught him to read.  *weeps eternally*

omggggggggggg nooooooo whyyyyyyyyyyyy