153431 réponses à ce sujet

[TanisLave]

i just want 2 leave this song here. 

Spoiler

 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Dirthamen is the god of secrets and knowledge, so maybe his?

 

Yeah, I might go with him. Though like his counterpart Falon'Din, he might be a world class douchebag. 

[Mims]

Yeah, I might go with him. Though like his counterpart Falon'Din, he might be a world class douchebag. 

 

Choose worst god for maximum drama! 

[Seregwen]

Well, I think

 

1) He's a firm believer in freedom of thought and self-agency, and considering memories make up the majority of what we are, he doesn't like tampering with it. With Cole, he just made him forget his plans, not everything, only what's necessary.

 

2) He can't erase himself from the Inquisitor's memories, because it wouldn't last. He left traces of his existence all over the place. Murals? Solas. Skyhold? Solas. Heck, the Inquisitor would be dead from the Anchor if it wasn't because of Solas. Things just wouldn't make sense with him out of the picture.

I agree. The fact that he even did that to Cole is very telling of how important this is to Solas. He has such a firm belief in intellectual freedom, so to even manipulate Cole in a small way is a really big deal. This kind of goes along with the hypocrisies of Solas. He doesn't consider himself to be "an elf", but he is and sometimes he does. He despises the Qun because they don't allow for freedom of thought, yet he blocks Cole. I also recall a banter between Blackwall and Solas after The Revelation of Blackwall, and as I remember it, Solas was pissed, but Solas himself is a liar by omission.

[Pinax]

Makes me wonder if gods can be born in these times or overly powerful people like Solas implies.  I would love to have my lavellan as a god or a beacon of hope for the elven people, but she wouldn't accept it and is there to serve the people when needed. Maybe the leader the elves finally need. To get their **** together and build a new seed, a new empire (excluding all the racism and forgetting the past, of course)

 

Maybe we're the new pantheon. I think is time to say good bye to the old elven gods and bring new views to the new world.

 

I'm still, euh.... few pages behind this thread since yesterday and told this already, but... whetever, I will repeat.

 

I think DA lore is definately going into the godhood direction. The question is: Quizzie only, someone new, or also maybe our Warden and Hawke too? They're all special in some way
 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Speaking of Solas, I find there to be one similarity between him and Corypheus. I know, shocking but allow me to explain.

 

Both are creatures of the past. Both are extremely powerful mages. Both in fact, find that the current state of affairs to be misplaced or wrong somehow and want it to return to the old days.

 

That is why I believe Solas gave his Elven Orb to Corypheus. He pulled an Architect. Remember the Architect ? His mistakes with his experimentation on Urthemiel started the Fifth Blight in Ferelden. Solas' mistake here created the Breach and I think this will be one of the centerpoint for possible Awakening-esque expansion in the future. 

 

I believe, after Solas woke up after his slumber, probably after Briala activated an Eluvian that uses his name as a password of sorts, and he was weak. He saw how much the Elves had lost. The glory days are gone. He has his orb but due to his Uthenara, he was weak and could not use its full power. 

 

Then along came Corypheus who most likely made promises of wanting to use the orb to bring back the old days. To Corypheus' credit, he did try to bring back the old days, just not Solas' version of the old days. 

 

Solas then gave the orb. The rest, as they say, is history. 

 

Which is probably why Flemeth / Mythal says the line "You should not have given your orb to Corypheus, Dread Wolf." to which Solas / Fen'Harel replies "I was too weak to unlock it after my slumber. The failure is mine and I should pay the price but The People, they need me."

 

It wasn't an accident or anything. Solas deliberately gave the Orb to Corypheus, persuaded by the old days argument. Solas meant malice or evil by doing so but then SHTF with The Breach later. 

[Addai]

I noticed that none of the lead writers was at PAX South, and Gaider tweeted that the writers were busy. Hopeful sign.

[Patchwork]

I wouldn't be surprised if Flemeth being Flemeth didn't manipulate events so that Fen'Harel would wake up when she was ready for him and not before.

[flabbadence]

I noticed that none of the lead writers was at PAX South, and Gaider tweeted that the writers were busy. Hopeful sign.

 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.

[flabbadence]

I wouldn't be surprised if Flemeth being Flemeth didn't manipulate events so that Fen'Harel would wake up when she was ready for him and not before.

 

Was rereading The Emergent Compendium, and I think so too.

 

-Two shadowed spheres among stars subtitled "aboofqp iboxE'kbC px bpmfizb kX" 

"An eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred" 

 

 

If this is a solar eclipse, then the Moon's covering the Sun, and we all know who the Moon is.

[flabbadence]

 

Tyrdda Bright-Axe Analysis
Stanza Six: Hendir, Dwarf-Prince, Friend to Tyrdda. Complete stanza below behind spoiler.

Spoiler

 

Tyrdda Bright-Axe, proud her tribe, free from fallow fat below, 

Built in battle, fed on fighting, strong from struggle did they grow.

• TL;DR - Blatant Avvar ego stroking. Tyrdda bested Thelm and caused a dragon to fall! We fled into the mountains, where living was rough but it made us strong! We're badass warriors! LOOK at our prowess and survivability! *muscle flex*

Deep in caves, the stone-men tribe, Hendir's warriors, stout and strong, 

Met the tribe with axes ready, armor gleaming, sword-blades long.

• "Deep in caves, the stone-men tribe, Hendir's warriors, stout and strong," tells us in no uncertain terms that both Hendir and his warriors are dwarves. They dwell deep in caves, they're called the stone-men tribe - similar to  Solas' way of calling dwarves "children of the stone."
• It's clear that Hendir and his people feared the Avvar who migrated to the Frostbacks and began to dwell in the caves of the mountains themselves. They could easily interpret such an act as an invasion into their lands and an act of hostility.

Spoke with Tyrdda did her lover, gentle whispers soft she made, 

• Tyrdda's lover, the leaf-eared (aka elven) laughing Lady of the Skies, once again intervenes and warns Tyrdda of the danger of responding to Hendir with hostility. I do question whether or not Tyrdda's lover gave this advice in person or if it was the whisper of a spirit or through a dream. 

Dwarven hearts were sundered, simple, still with honor. Thus she bade:

• The laughing Lady of the Skies refers to Dwarven hearts as sundered, which I find a little interesting. Sundered means by definition "split apart." Some other synonyms would be divided, split, cleaved, separated, rent, severed, rived. This could lead credence to the possibility of Dwarves already having been split from the titans and in that way incomplete.
• The word sundered is also used in the Red Lyrium codex found in the Nightmare, which I can't seem to find on the wiki. If someone finds it, please send it a long so I can check if it is a relevant correlation. 
• Dwarven hearts, while divided or cut from what they once were, still had a simplicity that allowed them honor while others (like Thelm and Tyrdda's Alammari tribesmen) had lost it.

"Let the tribe the dwarf-men know, 

In their caves, where they belong, 

Not with battle but with trade, 

Hendir's dwarves, give peace unbreaking."

• These are the whispers the Lady of the Skies gives to her lover, Tyrdda. She basically advises Tyrdda and her tribe into diplomatic trade relations with the Dwarves, telling her that should she befriend them, they can rely upon them for both trade and peace.
• This is interesting because this alliance between the Avvar and the dwarves of the Frostbacks continues to this day. Considering that this legend occurs before the formation of the Tevinter Imperium, that's an alliance lasting AT LEAST two thousand years. I can't think of another alliance between any group of people within Thedas that has lasted so long in roughly modern history.
• Wiki information about continued Dwarf-Avvar trade relations below in the spoiler: 
  Spoiler

  The Avvars have a decent relationship with the dwarven kingdom of Orzammar. The Avvars trade furs, goat milk, and free passage rights for dwarf traders (allowing them to travel over the Frostbacks in peace) in exchange for arms and armor. The dwarves regard the Avvars as a useful deterrent against both Ferelden and Orlesian ambitions.

 

 

And of course this is when I run out of likes

[Moondreamer01]

Well that is a good question, isn't it?

 

Perhaps because he wants you to remember him?

 

Perhaps because he'll never forget you so to balance that out he never wants you to forget him?

 

Perhaps it is part of some plan?

I think it's because that would be taking away your free will. That would be quite an invasion, and I think it would be too out of character for him.

[Mims]

I wouldn't be surprised if Flemeth being Flemeth didn't manipulate events so that Fen'Harel would wake up when she was ready for him and not before.

 

I think this is very possible. Otherwise it is an incredible coincidence that Morrigan, presumably her favorite daughter and the one she intends to take over her godhood, is born the same time that Fen'Harel awakens. 

[jellobell]

Off topic but is that a trilogy of books

Spoiler

where the main characters spend a lot of their time in rat form and one of them dies in the first book but shifts into a phoenix in order to surivie and the last book is about humans vs the fair folk in Ireland because if it is what are the titles? I read them when I was young and cannot remember what they were called.

 

The Switchers Trilogy is what you're thinking of

 

http://en.wikipedia....itchers_Trilogy

[Avejajed]

Hi. This is what my work day has consisted of.

 

I like charts, don't judge me. Be jealous of my mad chart making skills.

 

 

[flabbadence]

Hi. This is what my work day has consisted of.

 

I like charts, don't judge me. Be jealous of my mad chart making skills.

 

 

 

Argh out of likes.

 

Questions though.

 

1) Are the blue veins magic or lyrium?

 

2) Why a pyramid, with the fade on top and the void at the bottom?

[Mims]

Really like that chart, particularly the placement of the void. 

[Sister Squish]

Re: Wolves as rebels, Fen'Harel as just a guy

From the comparisons between Ancient Arlathan and Ancient Greece, comes #greek geekery. 
(Warning: I am probably the only person who is interested in any of this! Will attempt to keep it brief!)

Spoiler

 

Arlathan as Ancient Greece: The Trial

 

"His crime is high treason. He took on a form reserved for the gods and their chosen, and dared to fly in the shape of the divine. The sinner belongs to Dirthamen; he claims he took wings at the urging of Ghilan'nain, and begs protection from Mythal. She does not show him favour, and will let Elgar'nan judge him." - Codex entry: Ancient Elven Writing

 

It is rare for us to find information on an Ancient Elvhen domestic event such as this. Therefore, I am assuming the significance in this trial being relayed to us. Arguably the most significant trial of Ancient Greece (and possibly the western world) was that of Socrates.  

 

Socrates believed that the people of Athens held their principles glibly, but rarely lived up to them and even more rarely examined them. Against this, he developed a technique of asking seemingly innocent questions, trapping his audience in their own confusions and hypocrisies, exploding the pretensions of his times. And against their easy certainties, he taught that "the unexamined life is not worth living". He referred to himself as a "gadfly", (an obnoxious insect with a painful bite), keeping his fellow citizens from ever becoming as smug and self-righteous as they would like to have been. Accordingly, he made many enemies. 

 

Aristophanes, Socrates contemporary, wrote a play called The Clouds, satirizing the life of Socrates in a mild form of vengeance for Socrates constant criticisms. "The Clouds" referred to that stereotype of thinkers "having their heads lost in the clouds". It also expressed the public opinion that Socrates was "shiftless", and merely a master at verbal trickery.

 

Socrates students however worshipped him, and perceived him as a martyr for the truth in a corrupt society. The price of his nuisance eventually culminated in the government arranging for Socrates to be brought to trial on the charges of:

1> corrupting the youth of Athens 

2> not believing in the gods of the city

And for these bogus crimes Socrates was sentenced to death. However he went down gloriously. 

 

"So be it. What counterassessment should I propose to you, gentlemen of the jury? Clearly it should be a penalty I deserve, and what do I deserve to suffer or to pay because I have deliberately not led a quiet life but have neglected what occupies most people: wealth, household affairs, the position of general or public orater or the other offices, the political clubs and factions that exist in the city? I thought myself too honest to survive if I occupied myself with those things. I did not follow that path that would have made me of no use either to you or to myself, but I went to each of you privately and conferred upon him what I say is the greatest benefit, by persuading him not to care for any of his belongings before caring that he himself should be as good and as wise as possible, not to care for the city's possessions more than for the city itself, and to care for other things in the same way. What do I do deserve for being such a man? Some good, gentlemen of the jury, if I must truly make an assessment according to my deserts, and something suitable." - From Plato's Apology

 

Socrates here suggests that the state should give him a pension, rather than a punishment, for being a public benefactor and urging his students to be virtuous. It is the beginning of a long speech in defense of his life made before the citizens of Athens (who did not appreciate being told they were corrupt by Socrates, even while condemning him). Socrates had actually been offered chances before the trial, both to repent and give up his way of life, or to escape the city with friends. But he told everyone who offered that he preferred to die for his ideas than to live as a hypocrite. An idea worth living for may be an idea worth dying for as well. 

 

The charge of "high treason" in Arlathan may seem far more severe than the charges of Socrates, but we must keep in mind that Thedas is a world where ideas, or will, or choice (depending on your interpretation) are made manifest. And the punishment for Socrates was no less severe. 

 

Imagine then if you can, a scenario where an equivalent member of the lower classes in Arlathan develops radical ideas of a moral nature. He collects a following, and that following believes that their way of life deserves recognition as that of a separate Pantheon, just as each other member of the Pantheon reigns over city-states adhering to differing ways of life. The following is not humored with recognition by the Pantheon until it develops enough power and resources to prove a possible threat. The leader of the following is dragged before a trial, accused of "high treason". The death is revered as a martyrdom, triggering rebellion. 

 

Plato, when recounting Socrates, argues there being justice in the afterlife. Not the traditionally religious kind of justice that we may have come to relate to heaven and hell, however. A sort of cosmic justice; a belief that the universe is somehow a working system in which whatever the "afterlife" is allows us to experience the result of choices made in this life. 

 

But, that isn't to say we wait until the afterlife to receive reward. To Plato, justice is intrinsically good because a "moral life" is also a "happy life". By "happy", he is referring to a deep and sustainable inner contentment, moral and intellectual virtue, and well-being. Such a state requires that reason rule the soul. For Plato, reason is the aspect of the human soul that desires knowledge, including knowledge of moral reality. Spirit is the aspect of the soul which desires honour and gets angry, and appetite is the aspect of the soul that desires food, drink, sex, and other bodily pleasures. When reason rules over spirit and appetite, there is an inner harmony that constitutes true happiness. The virtuous person is in a state of harmony and spiritual health. 

 

Too far into philosophy land. Anyway, one of the things to keep in mind regarding the Pantheon and it's subjects is that there is a difference between the "common good" and the "greater good". When the "greater good" is given as a justification for political action, the rights, dignity, and integrity of individuals are up for grabs. That is, things may be sacrificed for the good of the majority. Aka, a population maintaining the wealth and power of rulers is justified by them being more capable of running a city for all you peasants. Or, justification for slave rituals and blood magic. 

 

However, the claim that the good of all citizens suffers when the rights of some are violated is an appeal to the "common good". Socrates - and our mysterious Arlathan - died for this idea. They didn't know what their deaths might achieve, but they fought on behalf of those who would suffer if the state of things continued as they were. 

 

If it has yet to be noticed, I am attempting to drill home the importance of this event in shaping the intellectual foundations of the entirety of western civilization since. The decline of the mighty Greeks themselves was much more gradual than the "whoops, fell in a hole" burying of Arlathan. Yet we can understand the effect of Arlathan's lifespan on all peoples in Thedas, if the footprint left by the Ancient Elvhen was anything like that of the Greeks. 

 

After the Greek and Roman empires crumbled, as a result of many variables (which our historian Caddius would probably know a lot more about!) the western world arguably became a little lazy. It was as late as the fifteenth century where significant elements of recovery were seen in political, economic, artistic, and intellectual change. And this was largely due to a "rebirth" of Greco-Roman civilisation and ideas. 

I wonder, then, if this is what we are seeing in present day Thedas? A recovery of Arlathan civilisation and ideas? A Thedasian renaissance? 

 

P.S. I am out of likes but everything is amazing today! EVERYTHING! 

[CapricornSun]

Before I go to bed...

 

Source: http://jakface.tumbl...now-why-i-enjoy

 

Goodnight fellow Solassians!  

[Uirebhiril]

Which is probably why Flemeth / Mythal says the line "You should not have given your orb to Corypheus, Dread Wolf." to which Solas / Fen'Harel replies "I was too weak to unlock it after my slumber. The failure is mine and I should pay the price but The People, they need me."

 

It wasn't an accident or anything. Solas deliberately gave the Orb to Corypheus, persuaded by the old days argument. Solas meant malice or evil by doing so but then SHTF with The Breach later. 

 

I'll giggle if in the end it was a literal unlocking - the orb was sealed behind a magical door that Solas couldn't unlock because he was weak, so either had no choice but to let Corypheus take it or orchestrated it so that way someone who was capable of undoing the lock would do it and Solas would be along later to collect the goods. Oops.

 

Really, was it outright stated it meant unlocking the orb's magic? Or was that in a comment about releasing power that's sat contained for ages? I forget now.

 

I'll also giggle if the Breach happening was because the random soul that becomes Inquisitor disrupted things and grabbed up the orb. Maybe Corypheus meant for a far more gentle entrance into the Fade and we had to come along and cause demons to fall out of the sky. Hawke would be all, "...nope, even I can't eff something up that bad."

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.

[HurricaneGinger]

Re: Wolves as rebels, Fen'Harel as just a guy

From the comparisons between Ancient Arlathan and Ancient Greece, comes #greek geekery. 
(Warning: I am probably the only person who is interested in any of this! Will attempt to keep it brief!)

Spoiler

 

Arlathan as Ancient Greece: The Trial

 

 

It is rare for us to find information on an Ancient Elvhen domestic event such as this. Therefore, I am assuming the significance in this trial being relayed to us. Arguably the most significant trial of Ancient Greece (and possibly the western world) was that of Socrates.  

 

Socrates believed that the people of Athens held their principles glibly, but rarely lived up to them and even more rarely examined them. Against this, he developed a technique of asking seemingly innocent questions, trapping his audience in their own confusions and hypocrisies, exploding the pretensions of his times. And against their easy certainties, he taught that "the unexamined life is not worth living". He referred to himself as a "gadfly", (an obnoxious insect with a painful bite), keeping his fellow citizens from ever becoming as smug and self-righteous as they would like to have been. Accordingly, he made many enemies. 

 

Aristophanes, Socrates contemporary, wrote a play called The Clouds, satirizing the life of Socrates in a mild form of vengeance for Socrates constant criticisms. "The Clouds" referred to that stereotype of thinkers "having their heads lost in the clouds". It also expressed the public opinion that Socrates was "shiftless", and merely a master at verbal trickery.

 

Socrates students however worshipped him, and perceived him as a martyr for the truth in a corrupt society. The price of his nuisance eventually culminated in the government arranging for Socrates to be brought to trial on the charges of:

1> corrupting the youth of Athens 

2> not believing in the gods of the city

And for these bogus crimes Socrates was sentenced to death. However he went down gloriously. 

 

 

Socrates here suggests that the state should give him a pension, rather than a punishment, for being a public benefactor and urging his students to be virtuous. It is the beginning of a long speech in defense of his life made before the citizens of Athens (who did not appreciate being told they were corrupt by Socrates, even while condemning him). Socrates had actually been offered chances before the trial, both to repent and give up his way of life, or to escape the city with friends. But he told everyone who offered that he preferred to die for his ideas than to live as a hypocrite. An idea worth living for may be an idea worth dying for as well. 

 

The charge of "high treason" in Arlathan may seem far more severe than the charges of Socrates, but we must keep in mind that Thedas is a world where ideas, or will, or choice (depending on your interpretation) are made manifest. And the punishment for Socrates was no less severe. 

 

Imagine then if you can, a scenario where an equivalent member of the lower classes in Arlathan develops radical ideas of a moral nature. He collects a following, and that following believes that their way of life deserves recognition as that of a separate Pantheon, just as each other member of the Pantheon reigns over city-states adhering to differing ways of life. The following is not humored with recognition by the Pantheon until it develops enough power and resources to prove a possible threat. The leader of the following is dragged before a trial, accused of "high treason". The death is revered as a martyrdom, triggering rebellion. 

 

Plato, when recounting Socrates, argues there being justice in the afterlife. Not the traditionally religious kind of justice that we may have come to relate to heaven and hell, however. A sort of cosmic justice; a belief that the universe is somehow a working system in which whatever the "afterlife" is allows us to experience the result of choices made in this life. 

 

But, that isn't to say we wait until the afterlife to receive reward. To Plato, justice is intrinsically good because a "moral life" is also a "happy life". By "happy", he is referring to a deep and sustainable inner contentment, moral and intellectual virtue, and well-being. Such a state requires that reason rule the soul. For Plato, reason is the aspect of the human soul that desires knowledge, including knowledge of moral reality. Spirit is the aspect of the soul which desires honour and gets angry, and appetite is the aspect of the soul that desires food, drink, sex, and other bodily pleasures. When reason rules over spirit and appetite, there is an inner harmony that constitutes true happiness. The virtuous person is in a state of harmony and spiritual health. 

 

Too far into philosophy land. Anyway, one of the things to keep in mind regarding the Pantheon and it's subjects is that there is a difference between the "common good" and the "greater good". When the "greater good" is given as a justification for political action, the rights, dignity, and integrity of individuals are up for grabs. That is, things may be sacrificed for the good of the majority. Aka, a population maintaining the wealth and power of rulers is justified by them being more capable of running a city for all you peasants. Or, justification for slave rituals and blood magic. 

 

However, the claim that the good of all citizens suffers when the rights of some are violated is an appeal to the "common good". Socrates - and our mysterious Arlathan - died for this idea. They didn't know what their deaths might achieve, but they fought on behalf of those who would suffer if the state of things continued as they were. 

 

If it has yet to be noticed, I am attempting to drill home the importance of this event in shaping the intellectual foundations of the entirety of western civilization since. The decline of the mighty Greeks themselves was much more gradual than the "whoops, fell in a hole" burying of Arlathan. Yet we can understand the effect of Arlathan's lifespan on all peoples in Thedas, if the footprint left by the Ancient Elvhen was anything like that of the Greeks. 

 

After the Greek and Roman empires crumbled, as a result of many variables (which our historian Caddius would probably know a lot more about!) the western world arguably became a little lazy. It was as late as the fifteenth century where significant elements of recovery were seen in political, economic, artistic, and intellectual change. And this was largely due to a "rebirth" of Greco-Roman civilisation and ideas. 

I wonder, then, if this is what we are seeing in present day Thedas? A recovery of Arlathan civilisation and ideas? A Thedasian renaissance? 

 

P.S. I am out of likes but everything is amazing today! EVERYTHING! 

 

Out of likes, but that was a fascinating read! I loved it. 

 

Before I go to bed...

 

Source: http://jakface.tumbl...now-why-i-enjoy

 

Goodnight fellow Solassians!  

 

 Well helloooooooo there. Come here often? XD

 

 

 

 

Tyrdda Bright-Axe Analysis
Stanza Seven: The Departure of Her Lover. Complete stanza below behind spoiler.

 

 

OUT OF LIKES BUT LIKE SO MUCH

[flabbadence]

Re: Wolves as rebels, Fen'Harel as just a guy

From the comparisons between Ancient Arlathan and Ancient Greece, comes #greek geekery. 
(Warning: I am probably the only person who is interested in any of this! Will attempt to keep it brief!)

Spoiler

 

Arlathan as Ancient Greece: The Trial

 

 

It is rare for us to find information on an Ancient Elvhen domestic event such as this. Therefore, I am assuming the significance in this trial being relayed to us. Arguably the most significant trial of Ancient Greece (and possibly the western world) was that of Socrates.  

 

Socrates believed that the people of Athens held their principles glibly, but rarely lived up to them and even more rarely examined them. Against this, he developed a technique of asking seemingly innocent questions, trapping his audience in their own confusions and hypocrisies, exploding the pretensions of his times. And against their easy certainties, he taught that "the unexamined life is not worth living". He referred to himself as a "gadfly", (an obnoxious insect with a painful bite), keeping his fellow citizens from ever becoming as smug and self-righteous as they would like to have been. Accordingly, he made many enemies. 

 

Aristophanes, Socrates contemporary, wrote a play called The Clouds, satirizing the life of Socrates in a mild form of vengeance for Socrates constant criticisms. "The Clouds" referred to that stereotype of thinkers "having their heads lost in the clouds". It also expressed the public opinion that Socrates was "shiftless", and merely a master at verbal trickery.

 

Socrates students however worshipped him, and perceived him as a martyr for the truth in a corrupt society. The price of his nuisance eventually culminated in the government arranging for Socrates to be brought to trial on the charges of:

1> corrupting the youth of Athens 

2> not believing in the gods of the city

And for these bogus crimes Socrates was sentenced to death. However he went down gloriously. 

 

 

Socrates here suggests that the state should give him a pension, rather than a punishment, for being a public benefactor and urging his students to be virtuous. It is the beginning of a long speech in defense of his life made before the citizens of Athens (who did not appreciate being told they were corrupt by Socrates, even while condemning him). Socrates had actually been offered chances before the trial, both to repent and give up his way of life, or to escape the city with friends. But he told everyone who offered that he preferred to die for his ideas than to live as a hypocrite. An idea worth living for may be an idea worth dying for as well. 

 

The charge of "high treason" in Arlathan may seem far more severe than the charges of Socrates, but we must keep in mind that Thedas is a world where ideas, or will, or choice (depending on your interpretation) are made manifest. And the punishment for Socrates was no less severe. 

 

Imagine then if you can, a scenario where an equivalent member of the lower classes in Arlathan develops radical ideas of a moral nature. He collects a following, and that following believes that their way of life deserves recognition as that of a separate Pantheon, just as each other member of the Pantheon reigns over city-states adhering to differing ways of life. The following is not humored with recognition by the Pantheon until it develops enough power and resources to prove a possible threat. The leader of the following is dragged before a trial, accused of "high treason". The death is revered as a martyrdom, triggering rebellion. 

 

Plato, when recounting Socrates, argues there being justice in the afterlife. Not the traditionally religious kind of justice that we may have come to relate to heaven and hell, however. A sort of cosmic justice; a belief that the universe is somehow a working system in which whatever the "afterlife" is allows us to experience the result of choices made in this life. 

 

But, that isn't to say we wait until the afterlife to receive reward. To Plato, justice is intrinsically good because a "moral life" is also a "happy life". By "happy", he is referring to a deep and sustainable inner contentment, moral and intellectual virtue, and well-being. Such a state requires that reason rule the soul. For Plato, reason is the aspect of the human soul that desires knowledge, including knowledge of moral reality. Spirit is the aspect of the soul which desires honour and gets angry, and appetite is the aspect of the soul that desires food, drink, sex, and other bodily pleasures. When reason rules over spirit and appetite, there is an inner harmony that constitutes true happiness. The virtuous person is in a state of harmony and spiritual health. 

 

Too far into philosophy land. Anyway, one of the things to keep in mind regarding the Pantheon and it's subjects is that there is a difference between the "common good" and the "greater good". When the "greater good" is given as a justification for political action, the rights, dignity, and integrity of individuals are up for grabs. That is, things may be sacrificed for the good of the majority. Aka, a population maintaining the wealth and power of rulers is justified by them being more capable of running a city for all you peasants. Or, justification for slave rituals and blood magic. 

 

However, the claim that the good of all citizens suffers when the rights of some are violated is an appeal to the "common good". Socrates - and our mysterious Arlathan - died for this idea. They didn't know what their deaths might achieve, but they fought on behalf of those who would suffer if the state of things continued as they were. 

 

If it has yet to be noticed, I am attempting to drill home the importance of this event in shaping the intellectual foundations of the entirety of western civilization since. The decline of the mighty Greeks themselves was much more gradual than the "whoops, fell in a hole" burying of Arlathan. Yet we can understand the effect of Arlathan's lifespan on all peoples in Thedas, if the footprint left by the Ancient Elvhen was anything like that of the Greeks. 

 

After the Greek and Roman empires crumbled, as a result of many variables (which our historian Caddius would probably know a lot more about!) the western world arguably became a little lazy. It was as late as the fifteenth century where significant elements of recovery were seen in political, economic, artistic, and intellectual change. And this was largely due to a "rebirth" of Greco-Roman civilisation and ideas. 

I wonder, then, if this is what we are seeing in present day Thedas? A recovery of Arlathan civilisation and ideas? A Thedasian renaissance? 

 

P.S. I am out of likes but everything is amazing today! EVERYTHING! 

 

Alright that's it. This dearth of likes cannot go on. I am marching up to a mod and demanding to ask why exactly this limit exists.

 

Re: The trial

 

I think our Arlathan shapechanger was more of a man of ambition than a man of principle. He says he took wings because Ghilan'nain said he could, not because he's fighting for some idea. But wth, I love the Socrates parallel. And a Thedasian renaissance?

 

yessssssssss......

[Moondreamer01]

 

Tyrdda Bright-Axe Analysis
Stanza Seven: The Departure of Her Lover. Complete stanza below behind spoiler.

Spoiler

 

The epic has now waxed into its poetic sexy time section, featuring not one but TWO moments of passion! 

 

Tyrdda Bright-Axe, Dwarf-Friend Chieftain, with her leaf-eared lover lay, 

Woke she did to love-sweat morning, lover gone in light of day.

• So two things. 1) This poem goes out of its way to inform the audience that Tyrdda most certainly had a sexual, romantic relationship with her elven lover, the Lady of the Skies. This is not up for debate.
• 2) What IS up for debate is where the sexy time took place. Tyrdda's lover certainly could have physically been with her and fled in the night, but I find it far more likely that this is a poetic description of Fade Sex. Tyrdda awakes to a "love-sweat morning, lover gone in light of day." We know Tyrdda is a dreamer, we know her lover to be an elven entity powerful enough to be considered a goddess (so, also, very likely a dreamer). If they were physically separated by continents but lovers within the Fade, of course the lover would be gone in light of day. So... Yup. Ladies, that **** is canon and lore-approved.

Dream-words whispered, spoken soft, still the silence crushed and crashing,

• "Dream-words whispered, spoken soft" definitely backs up the Fade Sex interpretation.
• "Still the silence crushed and crashing" could mean that these are actually the Lady of the Skies parting words to Tyrdda in the Fade. For some reason, after this point, the Lady of the Skies leaves Tyrdda. She no longer whispers to her in dreams or in her waking moments to guide her and her tribe.
• It's clear that this separation isn't because the Lady of the Skies no longer loves Tyrdda. That's not the cause at all given the final words she speaks in the next few lines. My wonder is perhaps if the Lady of the Skies died. Or you know.. was betrayed. Wink wink.

Dead her tribe, unless a child could keep her line in warrior fashion. 

Aval'var, so named the lover, called "our journey, yours and mine,"

• Tyrdda's lover tells her that the Avvar need Tyrdda to produce an heir or they will crumble. Given that this is a homosexual relationship between two women, making an heir between Tyrdda and her elven lady love is biologically impossible. Tyrdda must seek out male companionship.
• The Lady of the Skies doesn't just leave it there, however. She tells Tyrdda what to name her future child: Aval'var, or translated "our journey, yours and mine."
• This is a clear indication that the Lady of the Skies isn't done with Tyrdda, despite leaving her. The two of them have a journey, a goal, a destiny together, and it is through the blood of Tyrdda's descendents even if they cannot be together in this lifetime.

One day child of Tyrdda's blood, Morrighan'nan, in strength must shine.

• What's that? Morrighan'nan? That sounds.. suspiciously like Morrigan.
• What do we know about Morrigan? She is the child of Flemeth, the Witch of the Wilds. Who may very well be the descendant of Andraste. An Alamarri woman who was married and had two daughters with .. an Avvar leader and tribesman, Maferath. Sounds like Morrigan is this child of Tyrdda's blood that in strength must shine!
• But what do we know about Flemeth? That she's the vessel of Mythal and her training/ cultivation of Morrigan and the passing of her godhood onto her is of UPMOST importance.
• So, if Morrigan is of the blood of Tyrdda, the daughter of Flemythal to whom Flemythal means to leave her godhood, and the Lady of the Skies is Mythal - she most certainly is the culmination of these two lovers, bound in blood in a way only time, descendents, and old god souls could make possible. She, like Aval'var, is the direct result of these two women's journeys - alone AND together.

Lover's whispers to obey, 

Hendir, dwarf-prince, friend in passion, 

Babe produced to serve the line, 

The Avvar tribe, her name, our taking. 

• Tyrdda obeys the last whispers of her lover, beds the dwarven prince Hendir, produces an heir and names it Aval'var as directed. The Avvar tribe is named in remembrance of this child Aval'var.
• Likewise, Aval'var is half-dwarven, not full-blooded human. By bedding Hendir, the dwarven prince, Tyrdda solidifies the alliance between the dwarves and her tribe. They cannot turn on one another without destroying the parent of their heir. A very smart political move.

 

Wait, wait wait.... This is Mythal we are talking about here. Mythal who plans everything in advance. She knew... She knew she was about to be betrayed, she was about to be killed. She leaves her lover with instruction to start a blood line where she could find refuge after her death. She planned it all in advance, or at least enough in advance that she had a fall back plan, even if she couldn't stop her own murder.