153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxy]

You don't actually have to kill the dragon.  It's sleeping and you can go around it.

 

Really? Well I never knew that but I don't care if it's sleeping I didn't want to take a chance at getting killed by a Dragon that was 4 levels above me lol.

[Colonelkillabee]

I responded to this up above- it's not ignorance, and Solas never says that it is, not that I can recall anyway. In the case of Cole, I think there's nobody that understands him better than Solas does. That doesn't mean that Solas is right, since he has his own biases, but in terms of understanding, Solas is way ahead of Varric. Both of them want Cole to be one way or the other, both are kind of selfish in how they approach it.

I don't really think he understands Cole at all honestly. Certainly not better than Varric. Like I said, he doesn't get other people, and by now Cole seemed much more human than spirit like to me. Varric is a people person. He understands a lot.

[Elessara]

Really? Well I never knew that but I don't care if it's sleeping I didn't want to take a chance at getting killed by a Dragon that was 4 levels above me lol.

 

Oh I kill it too.  I walk right up and hit with Mark of the Rift.  But I'm mean that way.

[Elessara]

I don't really think he understands Cole at all honestly. Certainly not better than Varric. Like I said, he doesn't get other people, and by now Cole seemed much more human than spirit like to me. Varric is a people person. He understands a lot.

 

I thought that my first playthrough but then I didn't bring Cole with me.  Then I dragged Solas and Cole around together and their conversations ... it's like they're speaking a different language that only the two of them know.

[miraclemight]

The conversation about Cole is turning into an Ouroboros. People choose either option based on their reasoning and preferences. Patrick Weekes himself said both sides have their good and bad. So let's accept it and leave it at that? This isn't the Qun and we're not trying to convert anyone to concede our points.

[Addai]

I don't really think he understands Cole at all honestly. Certainly not better than Varric. Like I said, he doesn't get other people, and by now Cole seemed much more human than spirit like to me. Varric is a people person. He understands a lot.

Who has spent more time dealing with spirits? The only other experience Varric has of someone like Cole is Janders, and that was dysfunctional. No wonder he's hoping Cole doesn't turn out like that.

Anyway, there's really no use debating it. Like I said, people feel this one on a gut level and trying to argue it is like saying an emotion is wrong. It's just interesting to me when I see people say "the human side is obviously the palatable choice" because to me it's the opposite.

[Elessara]

The conversation about Cole is turning into an Ouroboros. People choose either option based on their reasoning and preferences. Patrick Weekes himself said both sides have their good and bad. So let's accept that and leave it at that? This isn't the Qun and we're not trying to convert anyone to concede our points.

 

YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!!!

 

Er I mean ... I thought it was an interesting discussion and no one was getting offended or angry.  

[Caddius]

But that's my point.  The Inquisitor doesn't have the power and therefore can't do anything with it.  Morrigan has it.

Unless I'm remembering wrong, then Solas doesn't specifically talk about the Well if the Inquisitor didn't drink it. He's talking about power. Which isn't necessarily political power. His condemnation of sharing it and all of his other comments that I've seen? Perfectly valid for talking about political power, which the Inquisitor has regardless.

I wasn't talking about the Well. I was explaining how Solas's conversation could still be valid in a playthrough where Morrigan drank from the Well. If there are comments by Solas about the Well in a playthrough where Morrigan did it, then my point is largely moot and it's just an oversight.

[Colonelkillabee]

Who has spent more time dealing with spirits? The only other experience Varric has of someone like Cole is Janders, and that was dysfunctional. No wonder he's hoping Cole doesn't turn out like that.

Anyway, there's really no use debating it. Like I said, people feel this one on a gut level and trying to argue it is like saying an emotion is wrong. It's just interesting to me when I see people say "the human side is obviously the palatable choice" because to me it's the opposite.

Cole isn't just a spirit, he's almost human now.

 

It's the more palatabe choice to me because it seems cruel to make someone more like a being that doesn't rightfully belong in this world. It's like catering to a child's ignorance so that they can be happy instead of letting them understand reality and being better for it, even if that ignorant happiness is gone. I'll always choose that option. Solas has a bias for beings that don't belong in this setting. Varric on the other hand is literally down to earth.

[Elessara]

Unless I'm remembering wrong, then Solas doesn't specifically talk about the Well if the Inquisitor didn't drink it. He's talking about power. Which isn't necessarily political power. His condemnation of sharing it and all of his other comments that I've seen? Perfectly valid for talking about political power, which the Inquisitor has regardless.

I wasn't talking about the Well. I was explaining how Solas's conversation could still be valid in a playthrough where Morrigan drank from the Well. If there are comments by Solas about the Well in a playthrough where Morrigan did it, then my point is largely moot and it's just an oversight.

 

No, he says "What will you do with the power of the Well once Corypheus is dead?" ... and all I can think is, dude I'm not going to do jack with it go ask Morrigan.  What I actually says is ... "I'm going to make the world a better place with rainbows and kittens and unicorns - no, not the bog unicorn, that thing is creepy as ****" 

 

Edit:  I loaded a save where I didn't drink just to double check.  Now I have to go through the whole scene where he dumps my char.  Again.  Space bar don't fail me!

[Satsumi]

The Tomb? It's over where the Dragon is once you go to the rest of the tombs that one will be the last.... I think not sure but you have to kill the dragon to go there and the Dragon is level 20. 

 

You don't have to.  You can sneak around the side.  I think the dragon is asleep.

[Colonelkillabee]

Cole isn't just a spirit, he's almost human now.

 

It's the more palatabe choice to me because it seems cruel to make someone more like a being that doesn't rightfully belong in this world. It's like catering to a child's ignorance so that they can be happy instead of letting them understand reality and being better for it, even if that ignorant happiness is gone. I'll always choose that option. Solas has a bias for beings that don't belong in this setting. Varric on the other hand is literally down to earth.

 

In fact, Solas seems to have a habit of doing things to people and abandoning them without realizing how it truly effects them. *cough* Lavellan *cough*

[Caddius]

No, he says "What will you do with the power of the Well once Corypheus is dead?" ... and all I can think is, dude I'm not going to do jack with it go ask Morrigan.  What I actually says is ... "I'm going to make the world a better place with rainbows and kittens and unicorns - no, not the bog unicorn, that thing is creepy as ****" 

Really?

Then that's an oversight, either on Bioware's part or Solas's. 

I'll just headcanon the opening line out for my playthroughs to make sense.

Or just never give Morrigan the opportunity to drink.

[Roxy]

Oh I kill it too.  I walk right up and hit with Mark of the Rift.  But I'm mean that way.

 

lol

 

I just can't do that I'm a bit lazy and would rather kill a Dragon that was levels below me than above me although I have killed a Dragon higher than me in Emprise Du Lion..... accidently (thanks Solas you and your "I sense an Elven Artifact"    ). 

 

[RynJ]

I responded to this up above- it's not ignorance, and Solas never says that it is, not that I can recall anyway. In the case of Cole, I think there's nobody that understands him better than Solas does. That doesn't mean that Solas is right, since he has his own biases, but in terms of understanding, Solas is way ahead of Varric. Both of them want Cole to be one way or the other, both are kind of selfish in how they approach it.

I meant the one in the mountain fortress. I had to resort to YouTube. Ran right past it on my way up the mountain. *sigh*

 

That's how I see it too. When it comes to the decision, it felt to me like Solas was playing it safe. He was scared of what could possibly happen to Cole if he tried to ignore his own nature and go more human (which is more poignant after he loses his spirit friend). By playing it safe, he is also ignoring a part of what Cole is and a trajectory Cole has been going on for a while now.

 

Varric, on the other hand, is potentially playing with fire with no real understanding of the possible consequences. He recognizes human potential in Cole and clings to it. He has no true knowledge of spirits and doesn't respect them as people the way Solas does. 

 

All in all, Solas has better judgment in my opinion. Even if I ignore it in favor of making Cole more human, mostly for selfish reasons of wanting him to be my humany little bro. And because the human path is more interesting in terms of the lore. 

 

 

Cole isn't just a spirit, he's almost human now.

 

It's the more palatabe choice to me because it seems cruel to make someone more like a being that doesn't rightfully belong in this world. It's like catering to a child's ignorance so that they can be happy instead of letting them understand reality and being better for it, even if that ignorant happiness is gone. I'll always choose that option. Solas has a bias for beings that don't belong in this setting. Varric on the other hand is literally down to earth.

 

 

Catering to Cole's true nature is catering to a child's ignorance? As for spirits, they seem to be just as real as people in this setting. They may not "belong" now, but I have a feeling that the game is going to take the relationship between "real" people and spirits to interesting places in the future. At least they hint at doing such. Also, understanding human reality is not understanding the entire reality of the DA universe. 

[Elessara]

lol

 

I just can't do that I'm a bit lazy and would rather kill a Dragon that was levels below me than above me although I have killed a Dragon higher than me in Emprise Du Lion..... accidently (thanks Solas you and your "I sense an Elven Artifact"    ). 

 

 

I love it when he says, "I sense elven magic nearby" ... and I'm playing an elven mage ... and we're in that elven temple in the Forbidden Oasis.  Really?  You sense elven magic?  No ****?  Huh.  I never would have guessed.

[Avejajed]

I didn't take pictures at my sex toy party but I wanted to tell you all it was fabulous. I got a this heart shaped gel massager thing and I'm gonna pretend Solas is using a spell to warm his hands when he givea me a massagw. hehhhhehehe

Also I drank.

[Avejajed]

Twice!

[miraclemight]

lol

 

I just can't do that I'm a bit lazy and would rather kill a Dragon that was levels below me than above me although I have killed a Dragon higher than me in Emprise Du Lion..... accidently (thanks Solas you and your "I sense an Elven Artifact"    ). 

 

 

Oh, thank you for reminding me! I've been meaning to ask this: where is the elven artefact in Griffon's Keep? I can't seem to find it. I'm trying to trigger Solas' third quest, so every.single.one counts.

[Addai]

About the well: I interpret it to mean Solas thinks the Inquisitor will have some control over Morrigan. Hehe. Hehehehe.
 

Cole isn't just a spirit, he's almost human now.
 
It's the more palatabe choice to me because it seems cruel to make someone more like a being that doesn't rightfully belong in this world. It's like catering to a child's ignorance so that they can be happy instead of letting them understand reality and being better for it, even if that ignorant happiness is gone. I'll always choose that option. Solas has a bias for beings that don't belong in this setting. Varric on the other hand is literally down to earth.

He's not a child, and he's still a spirit either way. You can't make him into a human being- he'll never be that. He'll always be a hybrid. On the spirit path, he gets to choose where he goes- he can return to the Fade or stay. That's not cruel. And once again, there's nothing ignorant about it. He still remembers Cole, he still has insight into human motivations, just less so, and for that he has greater sensitivity and is less bound by suffering.

Anyway, last post on this subject, going to sleep now.

[AryBoBary]

I didn't take pictures at my sex toy party but I wanted to tell you all it was fabulous. I got a this heart shaped gel massager thing and I'm gonna pretend Solas is using a spell to warm his hands when he givea me a massagw. hehhhhehehe

Also I drank.

 

LOL.  You drank?  Couldn't tell... *holds back laughter* 

 

   

[Roxy]

Oh, thank you for reminding me! I've been meaning to ask this: where is the elven artefact in Griffon's Keep? I can't seem to find it. I'm trying to trigger Solas' third quest, so every.single.one counts.

 

It's in the keep. Go to where the merchant is and there will be some stairs go up there and it should be there.

 

I hope that's the one you are talking about lol

[BoscoBread]

That's how I see it too. When it comes to the decision, it felt to me like Solas was playing it safe. He was scared of what could possibly happen to Cole if he tried to ignore his own nature and go more human (which is more poignant after he loses his spirit friend). By playing it safe, he is also ignoring a part of what Cole is and a trajectory Cole has been going on for a while now.

 

Varric, on the other hand, is potentially playing with fire with no real understanding of the possible consequences. He recognizes human potential in Cole and clings to it. He has no true knowledge of spirits and doesn't respect them as people the way Solas does. 

 

All in all, Solas has better judgment in my opinion. Even if I ignore it in favor of making Cole more human, mostly for selfish reasons of wanting him to be my humany little bro. And because the human path is more interesting in terms of the lore. 

That's what I love about this quest - it's just as much about Varric and Solas as it is about Cole.   You get to the core of how those two people think and feel and it's expanded upon in their banters. 

[Avejajed]

Well I can't get mods to work but I'm still gonna start Origins anyway. Too bad so sad pretty hairstyles

[Colonelkillabee]

About the well: I interpret it to mean Solas thinks the Inquisitor will have some control over Morrigan. Hehe. Hehehehe.
 

He's not a child, and he's still a spirit either way. You can't make him into a human being- he'll never be that. He'll always be a hybrid. On the spirit path, he gets to choose where he goes- he can return to the Fade or stay. That's not cruel. And once again, there's nothing ignorant about it. He still remembers Cole, he still has insight into human motivations, just less so, and for that he has greater sensitivity and is less bound by suffering.

Anyway, last post on this subject, going to sleep now.

He seems like a child to me, and very ignorant of his surroundings at times, even with his little reading ability. Even if he's somehow "technically" still a spirit, he's also still human. Hence hybrid, and he can be more human than spirit so the point is moot.

 

He came here on his own to help, so I'm obligated to help him better understand how to live here. Why have him floating around just waiting to be taken advantage of when he can be better guarded.

 

Goodnight Agree to disagree, but I definitely agree human side is more palatable.