153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Siha]

oh my god. that arm raised up high. that coat flap. them legs angled forward.

 

i don't know whether to laugh or swoon.

I invested like 6 minutes, swoon goddamnit!

[MoonDrummer]

Hmm. They could have simply been driven mad by that whole mountainful of lyrium, yes. And the high dragon just made use of it. Why leave when people are worshiping you and taking care of your dragonling spawn after all?

Wait... was that dragon actually intelligent enough to manipulate the humans there?

[Colonelkillabee]

oh my god. that arm raised up high. that coat flap. them legs angled forward.

 

i don't know whether to laugh or swoon.

Definitely laugh, lol.

 

 

Hmm. They could have simply been driven mad by that whole mountainful of lyrium, yes. And the high dragon just made use of it. Why leave when people are worshiping you and taking care of your dragonling spawn after all?

Indeed, and I don't think it taking up residence at her temple is an accident. Neither is all the lyrium, or Corypheus choosing that spot for his sacrifice and for the breach.

[flabbadence]

I invested like 6 minutes, swoon goddamnit!

Definitely laugh, lol.

 

You're not making this easier guys!

[flabbadence]

Wait... was that dragon actually intelligent enough to manipulate the humans there?

 

Probably not, as Killabee pointed out

 

Indeed, and I don't think it taking up residence at her temple is an accident. Neither is all the lyrium, or Corypheus choosing that spot for his sacrifice and for the breach.

 

I definitely need more lore on that temple. That and Skyhold and the Black City are my three top place mysteries.

[Colonelkillabee]

I invested like 6 minutes, swoon goddamnit!

I think 'saurus has to start doing Solaflora now

[Sashimi_taco]

The ones I know and watch are Dodger/DexBonus/PressHeartToContinue; and Yogscast members Hannah/Lomadia, Kim/Nanosounds, and Zoey. Do they count?

 

I don't know if they will answer me, but i'll try my best. 

[flabbadence]

I think 'saurus has to start doing Solaflora now

 

Domtastic Fen'Harel, Master of the Fade

 

   

[Aravasia]

Warning, this is really long. I figured I'd just cramp it all into a master post with different sections. This way you can skip the theories you are already familiar with/have no interest in. Though, they are all built upon each-other somewhat. I tried to form these on as much evidence as I could gather. Some of them are more loosely based, and this is all just speculation, but I am hoping you all may be able to add to or deduct them based on what you, yourselves, have found. 

 

First is about the possibility of Andraste having been an Old God Baby:

Spoiler

Taken from The World of Thedas:

-203 Ancient: Coordinating a massive army from Thedas, the Grey Wardens defeat the Archdemon Dumat at the Battle of the Silent Plains, ending the First Blight.

-203 Ancient: The prophet Andraste is born in Ferelden.

 

It may just be a huge coincidence, but it does lead towards the possibility of Andraste being an Old God Baby. Then there is this codex detaling on how Andraste's bloodline consisted of only daughters. It is possible that the Old God soul has been passed on from daughter to daughter until reaching Flemeth.

Spoiler

Whom now intends for the soul to be passed on to Morrigan, according to the mined developer notes.

Also, meaning that Mythal is Dumat. This is furthered with the Silentir astrarium:

Spoiler

Referred to as "Silence" in the common parlance, the constellation Silentir is historically attributed to Dumat, the Old God of Silence and leader of the ancient Tevinter pantheon. The depiction of the constellation, however, is often debated. Some depict a dragon in flight, while others (also the most common modern depictions) show a man carrying a horn and a wand. Some scholars believe these represented scales, which would point to this constellation being a supplantation of the elven Mythal, but nothing indicates this to be more than speculation.

 

--From A Study of Thedosian Astronomy by Sister Oran Petrarchius

http://dragonage.wik...ation:_Silentir

 

Additionally, there is some similar iconography associated with the two figures:

Spoiler

-notice the headpiece. Though, Meredith wears the same thing. I am guessing her motivation was to mirror Andraste, but why Flemeth wears it may just be another small, well tiny perhaps, hint of the relationship between the two. 

 

Then there's also this:

Spoiler

Taken in the final battle from a user on Reddit: http://www.reddit.co...f_sacred_ashes/

 

Mythal's mosiac in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, as in, where Andraste's ashes were, and the only mosiac in the entire temple. I honestly can't think of a rational explanation to this, other than there being some type of relationship between the two. Another user in the previous thread speculated that it may have just been that the building was built upon old Elven ruins, without knowing their original foundations, but, combined with everything, I believe it makes a rather compelling case. 

 

The next one is Draconis, the 'unkown' eighth God. And also Solas centered for you ladies. 

Spoiler

(I just copied and pasted this one, so the post is a bit out of context, but you get the general idea.)

 

More incoming, I loaded up my game and I think I found something(!!!) 

 

So, here I am, going back to the Draconis astrarium, and I finish with a pretty little symbol:

Spoiler

And I thought, hey, I know that symbol! I am in the midst of my current DA2 playthrough, and that symbol is painted on every little nook and cranny of Kirkwall:

Spoiler

Spoiler

So, I scour the wiki in a quest of answers. And I stumble upon this jewel in the entry for Kirkwall's symbol:

 

"This stylized knot work representation of a dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion etched into countless walls during the time when Kirkwall was a center for the Tevinter slave trade. It was an image that catalyzed the slaves who overthrew the ruling magisters, and while the symbol has changed, its meaning has not: Kirkwall is a city unto itself, beholden to no one."

 

A dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion. And the codex entry for Fen'Harel as the God of Rebellion in Mythal's Temple:

http://dragonage.wik...:_The_Rebel_God

 

Well, I can guess why he was struck from the records, the magisters and other gods must have hated him. 

That red symbol is painted over the standard Kirkwall symbol only in the lower parts of the city (Lowtown and Darktown.) Also, recall that Kirkwall had a slave rebellion before it officially became Kirkwall. I can just imagine the implications if slaves rose up in Fen'Harel's name, whether he was leading them or not. I believe that would be enough for them to strike him from record. Either way, I believe this may be more slight evidence towards the Old Gods being the Pantheon, and which God Draconis is. 

 

So, thoughts? Is it true? Am I mad crafting theorist going off of nothing? 

 

Annnnd here's where it just gets more into speculation with light evidence, but still possible. This is about the connection between Mythal and the Maker:

Spoiler

Digging into Andraste's sermons, and I find these:

 

First is the codex entry for Here Lies the Abyss:

Spoiler

Andraste 14 

Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls.

From these emerald waters doth life begin anew.

Come to me, child, and I shall embrace you.

In my arms lies Eternity.

 

-Andraste 14:11

 

Chantry sisters have long since debated this section of the Chant of Light. It is tempting to assume that the "well of all souls" is a literal well, but such imagery appears nowhere in Andraste's other works. An examination from Threnodies 1:4 yields cues:

 

From the waters of the Fade you made the world. As the Fade had been fluid, so was the world fixed.

It is possible – even likely – that the "emerald waters" Andraste refers to are the substance of the Fade, which began as an "ocean of dreams" (Threnodies 1:1) and was reduced to a well – bottomless but limited in scope – by the Maker's creation of our world.

Is Andraste urging the listener to come to the Fade? Should we take "From these emerald waters doth life begin anew," as literal evidence of reincarnation – or even of life after death, as the Cult of Spirits suggests – or as a figurative benediction indicating that the Maker is the source of all life, and in finding His embrace for Eternity, we will only be returning our souls from whence they came?

 

– An excerpt from Reflections on Divinty, by Revered Mother Juliette

http://dragonage.wik..._Lies_the_Abyss

I believed that this might be a possible reference to Well of Sorrows. Googling this, and I come upon an exerpt from The Calling: 

 

In it, Maric and Fiona stumble upon an underground lake, and Maric quotes the lines from Andraste's Sermons. Now, here is the good part:

Spoiler

"Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew." He raised an eyebrow when he saw she didn't recognize the quote. "It's from the Chant of Light."...

"Oh. It's where Andraste goes to speak to the Maker for the first time. It's where she convinces him to forgive mankind. It was supposed to be this beautiful temple deep under the earth surrounded by emerald waters."

Of course, Maric and Fiona are in the deep roads in this portion, so it is highly unlikely that they came upon the Temple itself, but rather just that this place reminded him of it. But, this does tell us that the Well of all Souls not only was a temple, but is where Andraste spoke to the Maker. Also, surrounded by emerald waters.

 

Here is concept art from Inquisition, depicting what I believe to be the Temple of Mythal: 

Spoiler

This image shows part of the temple as being underground as well. Could it be that the Well of all Souls was the Well of Sorrows? And this is where Andraste apparently spoke to the Maker. So, possibly the maker actually was just some idea based off of Mythal. 

 

And more speculation, from the codex of Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts:

Spoiler

The Old Gods will call to you, 

From their Ancient Prisons they will sing. 

Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts, 

On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight, 

The First of My children, lost to night.

 

– Canticle of Silence 3:6

http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts

The fact that the Maker refers to the Old Gods as his children is very important. We know that Mythal is the all-mother to the other Gods. This excerpt describes that, not only were the Old Gods the Maker's children, but were his first children. In all of the other sermons from the chantry, the Maker's first children are described as the fade spirits. This sermon, however, would indicate that the Old Gods were the first, or perhaps the spirits he first created just included the Old Gods. Either way, we know now that the Maker is the one who created them.

 

Based on the previous theory, this gets into some tantalizing speculation on the identity of Mythal's betrayer:

Spoiler

Again from the Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts codex:

On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight, 

The First of My children, lost to night.

http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts
 

The First of My children, lost to night. Night? This could be a reference to Lusacan the God of Night. And, is apparently the last God expected to awaken. So, this may be a possible indication towards direct conflict between the Maker and Lusacan. Where the Maker some how lost the other Old Gods to Lusacan. 

 

Or, if you believe that the Maker may have been an ideal based off of Mythal, then there is also this codex, making the connection between Lusacan and Falon'Din:

Spoiler

Called "Shadow" in the common parlance, likely due to the ancient association of the constellation Tenebrium with Lusacan, the Old God of darkness and the night. It is odd, however, that the depiction for this constellation has always been an owl and not a dragon, even in the Tevinter texts. This lends credence to the widely-held belief that Tenebrium was a name meant to supplant an older, elven association - perhaps with the elven god Falon'Din, sometimes represented in tales as a giant owl. There is, of course, another explanation: owls are nocturnal hunters, and among earlier people, were considered terrifying omens of loss.

 

--From A Study of Thedosian Astronomy by Sister Oran Petrarchius

http://dragonage.wik...tion:_Tenebrium

By this, could Falon'Din have been the betrayer of Mythal? We know he amassed wars for adulation, until Mythal finally stopped him, by Solas's explanation in the Temple of Mythal:

Spoiler

However, the word betrayal indicates that the attack was by someone unexpected. Who is extremely close to Falon'Din and would likely betray his mother for him? Dirthamen. 

 

If you are still reading this you are a trooper. Last part, I promise. Theory on which of the Elven Gods corresponds to each of the Old Gods. 

Spoiler

Based on previous posts:

 

Dumat (Silence) - Mythal

Draconis (Rebellion) - Fen'Harel

Lusacan (Night) - Falon'Din 

Toth (Fire) - Sylaise. Both as gods of Fire.

 

Zazikel (Chaos) - Likely Elgar'nan, due to his rather vibrant nature. He was known to have had to been calmed by Mythal, and few would risk triggering his wrath due to the devastation it caused, so I believe that chaos fits well. This would also make him the second arch-demon to have arisen. 

 

Razikale (Mystery) - Andruil. I would have never made this connection myself, and had previously thought Dirthamen. But here is the codex entry for Razikale's constellation:

Spoiler

Owing primarily to the popular Orlesian tale of the same name, the constellation Eluvia is commonly referred to as "Sacrifice." During the Glory Age, folklore told of a young woman saved from a lustful mage by being sent into the sky by her father - after which the mage killed him (hence the sacrifice). The daughter became the constellation, depicted as a seated woman with her head in the clouds. Prior to this tale, Eluvia was though to represent Razikale, the Tevinter Old God of mystery, and the constellation was the source of many superstitions involving the granting of wishes.

 

 

--From A Study of Thedosian Astronomy by Sister Oran Petrarchius

http://dragonage.wik...llation:_Eluvia

Who else do we know to be a Goddess of Sacrifice? Solas's Temple of Mythal banter:

Spoiler

Also, this constellation is represented by a woman, making it less likely to be one of the male Gods.

So, due to this association, I believe that Andruil is the most likely candidate. Also placing her as the sixth Old God, yet to be awakened.

 

Urthemiel (Beauty) - Ghilan'nain. Urthemiel's constellation also depicts a woman, described as 'The Maiden.'

Spoiler

Referred to as "the Maiden" in common parlance, depictions of the constellation Bellitanus vary from one Age to the next. It has always been considered fashionable for prominent women of the day to be declared the Maiden's personification: Queen Madrigal in the Exalted Age, for instance, and Queen Asha before her. None of these women would likely appreciate the fact that Bellitanus is believed to have originally referred to Urthemiel, the Old God of Beauty.

 

--From A Study of Thedosian Astronomy by Sister Oran Petrarchius

http://dragonage.wik...ion:_Bellitanus

It would then make sense that Urthemiel would correlate to a female Goddess. And, Ghilan'nain's codex entry makes a point of described her as beautiful:

Spoiler

They say Ghilan'nain was one of the People, in the days before Arlathan, and the chosen of Andruil the Huntress. She was very beautiful—with hair of snowy white—and as graceful as a gazelle. She kept always to Andruil's Ways, and Andruil favored her above all others.

http://dragonage.wik...er_of_the_Halla

 

Andoral (Slaves) - It could be either June or Dirthamen. June's codex does not give much away(unsuprisingly, he is apprently the wild card.) But, you may perhaps  make a loose association with this in the entry:

Spoiler

When the People were young, we wandered the forests without purpose. We drank from streams and ate the berries and nuts that we could find. We did not hunt, for we had no bows. We wore nothing, for we had no knowledge of spinning or needlecraft. We shivered in the cold nights, and went hungry though the winters, when all the world was covered in ice and snow....

 

We learned to cook the flesh of the creatures we hunted over Sylaise's fire, and we learned to clothe ourselves in their furs and skins. And the People were no longer cold and hungry.

http://dragonage.wik...od_of_the_Craft

And the People were no longer cold and hungry. It sounds as though perhaps the elves were homeless, and June was able to provide for them (maybe by making them slaves?) It reminded me of the conversation with Dorian, where he relates the general attitude towards slavery as a good thing, or at least better than letting the poor starve and become homeless. A bit of a weak connection either way, but like I said, we just do not have enough information on June yet. 

 

So, who is the outlier? Dirthamen. And I believe that this has some reason to do with him being the betrayer of Mythal. I do not believe he is dead, as we know that Mythal has yet to fulfill her vengeance. But where he would be, or what he is up to, is unknown. 

 

And that's the end of it! So, thoughts? Is this all just wild speculation with not a hair of truth? I think that alone, the details are insignificant, but when put together make a slightly convincing possibility. But, is there anything that someone here has gathered that would support or contradict any of this?

 

Edit: I just saw the posts about spoiling it, is it okay as it is? I can always divide it up into different posts or remove some if it is causing problems on anyone's computer.

[Sister Squish]

http://dragonage.wik...aff_of_the_Void

"The inscription is old Tevinter Imperium: "There is strength in absence. Absence of weakness, and of limitation. Absence of caution, and of mercy. The Void has always been within."

Side-note, I'm reminded of the Void in Wheel of Time. Namely, a technique for maintaining serenity in dangerous situations like deadly combat or being a character in Wheel of Time. Specifically, the character picturing a fire in a Void, and feeding all of the fears and worries into the fire, until there's nothing left but the Void and icy calm.

Main-note, what the devil is the Void? It's obviously important. It's apparently the source of the Blight. It may have been home to the Forgotten Ones. I'd like to send a firmly worded letter to the writers. 

 

ahhh AHHHH!! *grips Caddius collar and manically sobs into his shirt*

Okay gotta make this coherent

 

The "devil" is the "sun" imprisoned in the "void". According to Song of Creation Theory, the sun's song of "order" is one half of the "Maker's" original song. The original song is essentially "life" on Thedas. 

 

From our discussion on The Soul and Tranquility: 

Spoiler

<snip>

Given what we believe we know about the nature of magic in Dragon Age, the effect of sealing that conduit is a logical extension.  With that conduit blocked, the mage is prevented from to drawing on the Fade, a critical component required for all magic, and thus is rendered a non-threat as a caster.

 

On a deeper ‘meta-magic’ level, we know from observation that while a mage made tranquil is cut off from emotion, their desire for purpose (the original “fire” in their blood) remains.  They retain the capacity to do, to create- but require an external source to direct that impulse.  Indeed, we also know that tranquil mages do not possess the ability to refuse command.  They are literally cut off from the world of Option, and thus can no longer create independent Choice.  

<snip>

 

<snip>

2. Tranquility cuts the connection made by this conduit. The ability to make an independent "choice" is lost = to use magic, and to dream. The connection between the physical element and the fade-shadow element of the conduit are required to have access to "choice". 

 

I wonder if the "unquenchable flame" refers to the life remaining in the Tranquil, or the fade-shadow which continues to exist long after being seperated? 

The Sentience View of the soul is disproved here. The soul being responsible for, arguably, the ability some organisms have to feel pleasure and pain and sense the world around them. Also thought to be responsible for higher level thought (plants, we assume, do not have sentient awareness and so, in conception, do not have souls). 

Tranquils are not only very much alive and capable of using those higher cognitive processes, but as World of Thedas tells us, free will still persists - they just rarely, if ever, choose to use it. 

 

If one can be alive without one's soul, it also discounts The Life-Source View. This being, everything alive, has a soul. Which is akin to what the Chantry tells us; that the Fade is a sort of primordial soup from which everything was made. 

I must admit this has been my go-to way of thinking without using much brainpower. It is the super easy way to explain the soul-splitting/copying/hopping that the elves having seemingly been doing; and how everything in the fade can be formless. I shall update my thinking. 

 

3. From the perspective of the "fade shadow", tranquility is similar to death. It loses it's sense of "self" (reflected will), provided by the conduit connection, and over time transforms into the "spirits" we see inhabiting the fade. 

 

This desire to "taste" life may be a craving for that sense of self they once knew. What is interesting is that Tranquils are not completely immune to possession. Perhaps without that ability to symbiotically connect through the conduit, connect to a reflected will and achieve a sense of self, it is pointless to them.

Is possession simply a spirit forcing themselves onto an unwilling host... the opposite of choice? Being imprisoned in your own body must be the ultimate absence of choice.

I like this. It makes the distinction between "soul" and "spirit" nice and neat (eventually). 

<snip>

 

We were talking about the possibility of a third element to the self, on top of the "body" and the "soul" - relating to the "flame", but not having a name for it. So I am going to pilfer the name from Lovecraft's Under The Pyramids - the ka, or life-essence. 

 

<snip>

Ideas of possible interest: 

> belief of three parts to a person: the body, the soul, and the ka (life-force) 

> "composite mummies"  - the living dead, heads replace with those of animals, to "imitate the gods". Supporting pyramid-orientated Qunari originating as "unnatural" experiments?

> deep underground, centre-of-the-Earth style, is a black pit where a very old god lives. 

> "colossi" worship this god

> also the source of a "song"

> "nether abyss" is where only ka and the soulless can go and return unscathed 

> the living dead (the ka) are awaiting the day Osiris returns to restore ka and soul, and lead them to a "glorious rebirth"

 

ka is the song of order - the spark or flame of life, but by itself missing the other half of the song of creation. That element of the fade - the soul, the fade-shadow - the ability to make choice, see options, be motivated by one's ambitions and emotions.

 

Arguably, the story of the maker's "first children"  were alive, possessing ka, but lacking in that other necessary ingredient. The song of order, lacking the song of freedom/chaos. 

 

The Maker's second children, life as we know it on Thedas, is crafted from a harmony - a balance of both songs. 

 

The source of ka in Thedas is the sun. Whether the fable of him originally being free and then being imprisoned in the void is true or not, we cannot say. The state of things at the moment is that ka is inherently linked with the void. Hence, "the void has always been within" - we all have the potential to become tranquil, if separated from our fade-shadows (souls). 

 

In the Lovecraft parallel, ka worship an ancient "Unknown God" deep underground. "Colossi" also worship this god. 

 

It is also interesting that Osiris, a younger God, aspires to return all ka with soul, and lead them to a "glorious rebirth". I would like to put forward the idea that the "Old Gods" are made of ka, and despite being able to move between the material world and the fade, are not native to either. 

 

*literally dancing around her lounge* What does everybody think?

Edit: Top of page Liz 

 

http://lizsketch.tumblr.com/

[Oswin]

 

 

....Why do I think he looks good in that? 

What is the matter with me 

 

My older sister has started playing DAI today. She's not played a DA game before so I'm not sure how much she'll appreciate. If she comes to me for info then I'm going to need to learn to give a simple reply and not a full blown History of Thedas lecture. 

I wonder what race she'll pick. We have a lot in common so I'm guessing another Fem Lavellan will be happening.

 

I just hope she does better with this than she did Mass Effect. She failed to romance anyone and managed to get Tali killed during the ME2 suicide mission because she told the quarians what her father did and lost her loyalty.

I disowned her for that.

 

I'd better stop getting distracted by this thread and actually go back to playing the game it's been paused in the Emerald Graves for about 30minutes. I might even get round to starting Wicked Eyes today. Get my Solas dance with that terrible clipping hat (it bothers me so much more than it ever should).

[flabbadence]

 

Warning, this is really long. I figured I'd just cramp it all into a master post with different sections. This way you can skip the theories you are already familiar with/have no interest in. Though, they are all built upon each-other somewhat. I tried to form these on as much evidence as I could gather. Some of them are more loosely based, and this is all just speculation, but I am hoping you all may be able to add to or deduct them based on what you, yourselves, have found. 

 

First is about the possibility of Andraste having been an Old God Baby:

Spoiler

Taken from The World of Thedas:

-203 Ancient: Coordinating a massive army from Thedas, the Grey Wardens defeat the Archdemon Dumat at the Battle of the Silent Plains, ending the First Blight.

-203 Ancient: The prophet Andraste is born in Ferelden.

 

It may just be a huge coincidence, but it does lead towards the possibility of Andraste being an Old God Baby. Then there is this codex detaling on how Andraste's bloodline consisted of only daughters. It is possible that the Old God soul has been passed on from daughter to daughter until reaching Flemeth.

Spoiler

Whom now intends for the soul to be passed on to Morrigan, according to the mined developer notes.

Also, meaning that Mythal is Dumat. This is furthered with the Silentir astrarium:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...ation:_Silentir

 

Additionally, there is some similar iconography associated with the two figures:

Spoiler

-notice the headpiece. Though, Meredith wears the same thing. I am guessing her motivation was to mirror Andraste, but why Flemeth wears it may just be another small, well tiny perhaps, hint of the relationship between the two. 

 

Then there's also this:

Spoiler

Taken in the final battle from a user on Reddit: http://www.reddit.co...f_sacred_ashes/

 

Mythal's mosiac in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, as in, where Andraste's ashes were, and the only mosiac in the entire temple. I honestly can't think of a rational explanation to this, other than there being some type of relationship between the two. Another user in the previous thread speculated that it may have just been that the building was built upon old Elven ruins, without knowing their original foundations, but, combined with everything, I believe it makes a rather compelling case. 

 

The next one is Draconis, the 'unkown' eighth God. And also Solas centered for you ladies.  

Spoiler

(I just copied and pasted this one, so the post is a bit out of context, but you get the general idea.)

 

More incoming, I loaded up my game and I think I found something(!!!) 

 

So, here I am, going back to the Draconis astrarium, and I finish with a pretty little symbol:

Spoiler

And I thought, hey, I know that symbol! I am in the midst of my current DA2 playthrough, and that symbol is painted on every little nook and cranny of Kirkwall:

Spoiler

Spoiler

So, I scour the wiki in a quest of answers. And I stumble upon this jewel in the entry for Kirkwall's symbol:

 

"This stylized knot work representation of a dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion etched into countless walls during the time when Kirkwall was a center for the Tevinter slave trade. It was an image that catalyzed the slaves who overthrew the ruling magisters, and while the symbol has changed, its meaning has not: Kirkwall is a city unto itself, beholden to no one."

 

A dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion. And the codex entry for Fen'Harel as the God of Rebellion in Mythal's Temple:

http://dragonage.wik...:_The_Rebel_God

 

Well, I can guess why he was struck from the records, the magisters and other gods must have hated him. 

That red symbol is painted over the standard Kirkwall symbol only in the lower parts of the city (Lowtown and Darktown.) Also, recall that Kirkwall had a slave rebellion before it officially became Kirkwall. I can just imagine the implications if slaves rose up in Fen'Harel's name, whether he was leading them or not. I believe that would be enough for them to strike him from record. Either way, I believe this may be more slight evidence towards the Old Gods being the Pantheon, and which God Draconis is. 

 

So, thoughts? Is it true? Am I mad crafting theorist going off of nothing? 

 

Annnnd here's where it just gets more into speculation with light evidence, but still possible. This is about the connection between Mythal and the Maker:

Spoiler

Digging into Andraste's sermons, and I find these:

 

First is the codex entry for Here Lies the Abyss:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik..._Lies_the_Abyss

I believed that this might be a possible reference to Well of Sorrows. Googling this, and I come upon an exerpt from The Calling: 

 

In it, Maric and Fiona stumble upon an underground lake, and Maric quotes the lines from Andraste's Sermons. Now, here is the good part:

Spoiler

"Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew." He raised an eyebrow when he saw she didn't recognize the quote. "It's from the Chant of Light."...

"Oh. It's where Andraste goes to speak to the Maker for the first time. It's where she convinces him to forgive mankind. It was supposed to be this beautiful temple deep under the earth surrounded by emerald waters."

Of course, Maric and Fiona are in the deep roads in this portion, so it is highly unlikely that they came upon the Temple itself, but rather just that this place reminded him of it. But, this does tell us that the Well of all Souls not only was a temple, but is where Andraste spoke to the Maker. Also, surrounded by emerald waters.

 

Here is concept art from Inquisition, depicting what I believe to be the Temple of Mythal: 

Spoiler

This image shows part of the temple as being underground as well. Could it be that the Well of all Souls was the Well of Sorrows? And this is where Andraste apparently spoke to the Maker. So, possibly the maker actually was just some idea based off of Mythal. 

 

And more speculation, from the codex of Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts

The fact that the Maker refers to the Old Gods as his children is very important. We know that Mythal is the all-mother to the other Gods. This excerpt describes that, not only were the Old Gods the Maker's children, but were his first children. In all of the other sermons from the chantry, the Maker's first children are described as the fade spirits. This sermon, however, would indicate that the Old Gods were the first, or perhaps the spirits he first created just included the Old Gods. Either way, we know now that the Maker is the one who created them.

 

Based on the previous theory, this gets into some tantalizing speculation on the identity of Mythal's betrayer:

Spoiler

Again from the Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts codex:

http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts
 

The First of My children, lost to night. Night? This could be a reference to Lusacan the God of Night. And, is apparently the last God expected to awaken. So, this may be a possible indication towards direct conflict between the Maker and Lusacan. Where the Maker some how lost the other Old Gods to Lusacan. 

 

Or, if you believe that the Maker may have been an ideal based off of Mythal, then there is also this codex, making the connection between Lusacan and Falon'Din:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...tion:_Tenebrium

By this, could Falon'Din have been the betrayer of Mythal? We know he amassed wars for adulation, until Mythal finally stopped him, by Solas's explanation in the Temple of Mythal:

Spoiler

However, the word betrayal indicates that the attack was by someone unexpected. Who is extremely close to Falon'Din and would likely betray his mother for him? Dirthamen. 

 

If you are still reading this you are a trooper. Last part, I promise. Theory on which of the Elven Gods corresponds to each of the Old Gods. 

Spoiler

Based on previous posts:

 

Dumat (Silence) - Mythal

Draconis (Rebellion) - Fen'Harel

Lusacan (Night) - Falon'Din 

Toth (Fire) - Sylaise. Both as gods of Fire.

 

Zazikel (Chaos) - Likely Elgar'nan, due to his rather vibrant nature. He was known to have had to been calmed by Mythal, and few would risk triggering his wrath due to the devastation it caused, so I believe that chaos fit's well. This would also make him the second arch-demon to have arisen. 

 

Razikale (Mystery) - Andruil. I would have never made this connection myself, and had previously thought Dirthamen. But here is the codex entry for Razikale's constellation:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...llation:_Eluvia

Who else do we know to be a Goddess of Sacrifice? Solas's Temple of Mythal banter:

Spoiler

Also, this constellation is represented by a women, making it less likely to be one of the male Gods.

So, due to this association, I believe that Andruil is the most likely candidate. Also placing her as the sixth Old God, yet to be awakened.

 

Urthemiel (Beauty) - Ghilan'nain. Urthemiel's constellation also depicts a woman, described as 'The Maiden.'

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...ion:_Bellitanus

It would then make sense that Urthemiel would correlate to a female Goddess. And, Ghilan'nain's codex entry makes a point of described her as beautiful:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...er_of_the_Halla

 

Andoral (Slaves) - It could be either June or Dirthamen. June's codex does not give much away(unsuprisingly, he is apprently the wild card.) But, you may perhaps  make a loose association with this in the entry:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...od_of_the_Craft

And the People were no longer cold and hungry. It sounds as though perhaps the elves were homeless, and June was able to provide for them (maybe by making them slaves?) It reminded me of the conversation with Dorian, where he relates the general attitude towards slavery as a good thing, or at least better than letting the poor starve and become homeless. A bit of a weak connection either way, but like I said, we just do not have enough information on June yet. 

 

So, who is the outlier? Dirthamen. And I believe that this has some reason to do with him being the betrayer of Mythal. I do not believe he is dead, as we know that Mythal has yet to fulfill her vengeance. But where he would be, or what he is up to, is unknown. 

 

And that's the end of it! So, thoughts? Is this all just wild speculation with not a hair of truth? I think that alone, the details are insignificant, but when put together make a slightly convincing possibility. But, is there anything that someone here has gathered that would support or contradict any of this?

 

Wait, wait, I can't focus right now. I'll be back after a wakeup shower.

 

 

....Why do I think he looks good in that? 

What is the matter with me 

 

My older sister has started playing DAI today. She's not played a DA game before so I'm not sure how much she'll appreciate. If she comes to me for info then I'm going to need to learn to give a simple reply and not a full blown History of Thedas lecture. 

I wonder what race she'll pick. We have a lot in common so I'm guessing another Fem Lavellan will be happening.

 

I just hope she does better with this than she did Mass Effect. She failed to romance anyone and managed to get Tali killed during the ME2 suicide mission because she told the quarians what her father did and lost her loyalty.

I disowned her for that.

 

I'd better stop getting distracted by this thread and actually go back to playing the game it's been paused in the Emerald Graves for about 30minutes. I might even get round to starting Wicked Eyes today. Get my Solas dance with that terrible clipping hat (it bothers me so much more than it ever should).

 

It's... pretty good actually. And so diva.

 

And for your sis, I recommend showing her this: http://kotaku.com/a-...-age-1658487212

[AryBoBary]

Punched square in the feels.

 

[Avejajed]

Warning, this is really long. I figured I'd just cramp it all into a master post with different sections. This way you can skip the theories you are already familiar with/have no interest in. Though, they are all built upon each-other somewhat. I tried to form these on as much evidence as I could gather. Some of them are more loosely based, and this is all just speculation, but I am hoping you all may be able to add to or deduct them based on what you, yourselves, have found.

First is about the possibility of Andraste having been an Old God Baby:

Spoiler

Taken from The World of Thedas:
-203 Ancient: Coordinating a massive army from Thedas, the Grey Wardens defeat the Archdemon Dumat at the Battle of the Silent Plains, ending the First Blight.
-203 Ancient: The prophet Andraste is born in Ferelden.

It may just be a huge coincidence, but it does lead towards the possibility of Andraste being an Old God Baby. Then there is this codex detaling on how Andraste's bloodline consisted of only daughters. It is possible that the Old God soul has been passed on from daughter to daughter until reaching Flemeth.

Spoiler

Whom now intends for the soul to be passed on to Morrigan, according to the mined developer notes.

Also, meaning that Mythal is Dumat. This is furthered with the Silentir astrarium:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...ation:_Silentir

Additionally, there is some similar iconography associated with the two figures:

Spoiler

-notice the headpiece. Though, Meredith wears the same thing. I am guessing her motivation was to mirror Andraste, but why Flemeth wears it may just be another small, well tiny perhaps, hint of the relationship between the two.

Then there's also this:

Spoiler

Taken in the final battle from a user on Reddit: http://www.reddit.co...f_sacred_ashes/

Mythal's mosiac in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, as in, where Andraste's ashes were, and the only mosiac in the entire temple. I honestly can't think of a rational explanation to this, other than there being some type of relationship between the two. Another user in the previous thread speculated that it may have just been that the building was built upon old Elven ruins, without knowing their original foundations, but, combined with everything, I believe it makes a rather compelling case.

The next one is Draconis, the 'unkown' eighth God. And also Solas centered for you ladies.

Spoiler

(I just copied and pasted this one, so the post is a bit out of context, but you get the general idea.)

More incoming, I loaded up my game and I think I found something(!!!)

So, here I am, going back to the Draconis astrarium, and I finish with a pretty little symbol:

Spoiler

And I thought, hey, I know that symbol! I am in the midst of my current DA2 playthrough, and that symbol is painted on every little nook and cranny of Kirkwall:

Spoiler

Spoiler

So, I scour the wiki in a quest of answers. And I stumble upon this jewel in the entry for Kirkwall's symbol:

"This stylized knot work representation of a dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion etched into countless walls during the time when Kirkwall was a center for the Tevinter slave trade. It was an image that catalyzed the slaves who overthrew the ruling magisters, and while the symbol has changed, its meaning has not: Kirkwall is a city unto itself, beholden to no one."

A dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion. And the codex entry for Fen'Harel as the God of Rebellion in Mythal's Temple:
http://dragonage.wik...:_The_Rebel_God

Well, I can guess why he was struck from the records, the magisters and other gods must have hated him.
That red symbol is painted over the standard Kirkwall symbol only in the lower parts of the city (Lowtown and Darktown.) Also, recall that Kirkwall had a slave rebellion before it officially became Kirkwall. I can just imagine the implications if slaves rose up in Fen'Harel's name, whether he was leading them or not. I believe that would be enough for them to strike him from record. Either way, I believe this may be more slight evidence towards the Old Gods being the Pantheon, and which God Draconis is.

So, thoughts? Is it true? Am I mad crafting theorist going off of nothing?

Annnnd here's where it just gets more into speculation with light evidence, but still possible. This is about the connection between Mythal and the Maker:

Spoiler

Digging into Andraste's sermons, and I find these:

First is the codex entry for Here Lies the Abyss:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik..._Lies_the_Abyss

I believed that this might be a possible reference to Well of Sorrows. Googling this, and I come upon an exerpt from The Calling:

In it, Maric and Fiona stumble upon an underground lake, and Maric quotes the lines from Andraste's Sermons. Now, here is the good part:

Spoiler

"Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew." He raised an eyebrow when he saw she didn't recognize the quote. "It's from the Chant of Light."...
"Oh. It's where Andraste goes to speak to the Maker for the first time. It's where she convinces him to forgive mankind. It was supposed to be this beautiful temple deep under the earth surrounded by emerald waters."

Of course, Maric and Fiona are in the deep roads in this portion, so it is highly unlikely that they came upon the Temple itself, but rather just that this place reminded him of it. But, this does tell us that the Well of all Souls not only was a temple, but is where Andraste spoke to the Maker. Also, surrounded by emerald waters.

Here is concept art from Inquisition, depicting what I believe to be the Temple of Mythal:

Spoiler

This image shows part of the temple as being underground as well. Could it be that the Well of all Souls was the Well of Sorrows? And this is where Andraste apparently spoke to the Maker. So, possibly the maker actually was just some idea based off of Mythal.

And more speculation, from the codex of Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts

The fact that the Maker refers to the Old Gods as his children is very important. We know that Mythal is the all-mother to the other Gods. This excerpt describes that, not only were the Old Gods the Maker's children, but were his first children. In all of the other sermons from the chantry, the Maker's first children are described as the fade spirits. This sermon, however, would indicate that the Old Gods were the first, or perhaps the spirits he first created just included the Old Gods. Either way, we know now that the Maker is the one who created them.

Based on the previous theory, this gets into some tantalizing speculation on the identity of Mythal's betrayer:

Spoiler

Again from the Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts codex:
[url="""]http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts[/url]

The First of My children, lost to night. Night? This could be a reference to Lusacan the God of Night. And, is apparently the last God expected to awaken. So, this may be a possible indication towards direct conflict between the Maker and Lusacan. Where the Maker some how lost the other Old Gods to Lusacan.

Or, if you believe that the Maker may have been an ideal based off of Mythal, then there is also this codex, making the connection between Lusacan and Falon'Din:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...tion:_Tenebrium

By this, could Falon'Din have been the betrayer of Mythal? We know he amassed wars for adulation, until Mythal finally stopped him, by Solas's explanation in the Temple of Mythal:

Spoiler

However, the word betrayal indicates that the attack was by someone unexpected. Who is extremely close to Falon'Din and would likely betray his mother for him? Dirthamen.

If you are still reading this you are a trooper. Last part, I promise. Theory on which of the Elven Gods corresponds to each of the Old Gods.

Spoiler

Based on previous posts:

Dumat (Silence) - Mythal
Draconis (Rebellion) - Fen'Harel
Lusacan (Night) - Falon'Din
Toth (Fire) - Sylaise. Both as gods of Fire.

Zazikel (Chaos) - Likely Elgar'nan, due to his rather vibrant nature. He was known to have had to been calmed by Mythal, and few would risk triggering his wrath due to the devastation it caused, so I believe that chaos fits well. This would also make him the second arch-demon to have arisen.

Razikale (Mystery) - Andruil. I would have never made this connection myself, and had previously thought Dirthamen. But here is the codex entry for Razikale's constellation:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...llation:_Eluvia

Who else do we know to be a Goddess of Sacrifice? Solas's Temple of Mythal banter:

Spoiler

Also, this constellation is represented by a woman, making it less likely to be one of the male Gods.
So, due to this association, I believe that Andruil is the most likely candidate. Also placing her as the sixth Old God, yet to be awakened.

Urthemiel (Beauty) - Ghilan'nain. Urthemiel's constellation also depicts a woman, described as 'The Maiden.'

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...ion:_Bellitanus

It would then make sense that Urthemiel would correlate to a female Goddess. And, Ghilan'nain's codex entry makes a point of described her as beautiful:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...er_of_the_Halla

Andoral (Slaves) - It could be either June or Dirthamen. June's codex does not give much away(unsuprisingly, he is apprently the wild card.) But, you may perhaps make a loose association with this in the entry:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...od_of_the_Craft

And the People were no longer cold and hungry. It sounds as though perhaps the elves were homeless, and June was able to provide for them (maybe by making them slaves?) It reminded me of the conversation with Dorian, where he relates the general attitude towards slavery as a good thing, or at least better than letting the poor starve and become homeless. A bit of a weak connection either way, but like I said, we just do not have enough information on June yet.

So, who is the outlier? Dirthamen. And I believe that this has some reason to do with him being the betrayer of Mythal. I do not believe he is dead, as we know that Mythal has yet to fulfill her vengeance. But where he would be, or what he is up to, is unknown.

And that's the end of it! So, thoughts? Is this all just wild speculation with not a hair of truth? I think that alone, the details are insignificant, but when put together make a slightly convincing possibility. But, is there anything that someone here has gathered that would support or contradict any of this?

I promise you're going to fit in here just fine. Wait till Cad, Liz, Madar, squish and others get ahold of this.

[Sashimi_taco]

I wonder if Arvasia has seen my life of mythal video?

 

[Ajna]

OMG hell no, lol

 

Maybe the masculine wolf version.

 

Keep going guys, he's getting aroused!

[Rabbitonfire]

Spoiler

Things got awesome in the Solas Chat today. So I made you all a Wolf Hunt DLC GIF.

Thanks to everyone who participated and cheered me on through to the morning light! HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU JADE AND RABBIT.

You can find it on my tumblr!

Also guys, totally want to know what your Lavellan's personal rant to him in this GIF would be. I NEED TO KNOW.

Sorry I nod off and went into that good night (actually it was morning and i'm not dead). Glad you finished though! ;DDDD

 

edit: what happened to the captions?

[Colonelkillabee]

Keep going guys, he's getting aroused!

 

 

LOL yea I'm totes aroused.

 

Like a wet fishstick.

[Oswin]

It's... pretty good actually. And so diva.

 

And for your sis, I recommend showing her this: http://kotaku.com/a-...-age-1658487212

 

 

Seeing that map of Thedas has made me realise that I haven't paid nearly enough attention to it before, because Antiva is so not where I thought it was. TO THE WORLD OF THEDAS! I think I need to go refill my brain with that book.

 

I'm forever disappointed that I totally mis-interpreted the Anderfels though. Something that was said about it in DAO (Digging through my memory I think it may have been Alistair talking about the harsh climate moulding the Wardens into a hardy group or something) made me think it was a bit like Beyond The Wall in GoT. Just harsh blizzard weather and a total polar wasteland making all the Anders people big burly bearded types. Then I bought The World of Thedas and realised they meant the opposite kind of harsh. Dust storms and hot hot summers! Whoo! It sounds dreadful   no wonder Hawke/Warden Friend goes missing up there.

 

I kinda liked it better when I thought Weisshaupt was some kind of Ice Fortress.

[BoscoBread]

Spoiler

Things got awesome in the Solas Chat today. So I made you all a Wolf Hunt DLC GIF.

Thanks to everyone who participated and cheered me on through to the morning light! HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU JADE AND RABBIT.

You can find it on my tumblr!

Also guys, totally want to know what your Lavellan's personal rant to him in this GIF would be. I NEED TO KNOW.

*weeps* this is so amazing Liz.   Abelas' little smile.   ABELAS YOU TOO WILL FIND LOVE. 

 

My Lavellan wouldn't rant.  That's not her style.  She'd just kind of give him this look and he would know.   he would know it was time to go home. 

[The Oracle]

Does Solas say anything about Kieran? Considering the boy has the soul of an old god trapped in him, you would think Solas would be over at him all the time, poking him with a stick.Or maybe not. Perhaps he'd be worried that Kieran would see right through his hobo apostate façade and tell everyone how wolfy he is.

[Illyria]

Does Solas say anything about Kieran? Considering the boy has the soul of an old god trapped in him, you would think Solas would be over at him all the time, poking him with a stick.Or maybe not. Perhaps he'd be worried that Kieran would see right through his hobo apostate façade and tell everyone how wolfy he is.

 

He doesn't.  I'm a little disapointed with how little Kieran interacts with the Inner Circle (I want to see him an Cole bonding over mindreading and wanting to help people).

[Aravasia]

I wonder if Arvasia has seen my life of mythal video?

 

I am just watching this and it's amazing, so many thoughts. I hadn't considered the possibility that Mythal may have been heavily involved with Andraste's life without actually being Dumat, but orchestrated the Dark ritual to save the soul, much in the way that she did for Urthemiel. This would also explain how Mythal was able to exist, considering she was murdered. I was not sure how she would still have been an Old Dragon God when the others, or at least Solas, presumed her to be dead. the only thing I can think of against this is the Silentir constellation that depicts Dumat as Mythal, but that is still just only really light evidence, and could have just been meant to depict a relationship between the two, rather than relate that Dumat was Mythal. And if Dumat isn't Mythal, which of the gods do you believe he would be? Elgar'nan perhaps? And this would leave enough room for each of the Pantheon to be an Old God.

 

Also, you brought up the points about Falon'Din and Andruil! I forgot about that little adventure with Andruil, and why she may have had a penchant of betrayal out for Mythal as well. And this somewhat adds to the theory of the last two remaining gods being Andruil and Falon'Din. I am willing to bet that Dirthamen is involved in some way too, if Falon'Din is. That emphasis about Flemeth's 'reckoning' in the video has me a little worried.

[Janic99]

I wonder if Arvasia has seen my life of mythal video?

 

I love your videos!! Thought I disagree about something you said about Thane but! hahah opinions x3 

[almasy87]

Solas:  Why did you drink from the Well?!  *snarl*

Inquisitor:  I dunno, I was thirsty?  I mean, we'd been fighting a lot and it looked refreshing!

 

Well the quizzy is indeed all smiley and such when about to take a sip