153431 réponses à ce sujet

[TanisLave]

Now I feel bad, because Solas hated my Trev.

 

Look Solas, just because I never talked to you doesn't mean we can't be friends!

[Addai]

If the developers need Solas for a major plot development, it's going to happen regardless of PC relationship to him, because they wouldn't make a world-changing branch into something that can be determined by player choice. At most you'd accompany him "for a time" (ugh, that dreaded phrase from the Origins epilogues). And given Solas' greatest fear, I wouldn't be against that outcome being open to any PC, not just romanced Lavellan. I'll be content if that is a possibility no matter what Solas' plan entails.

[LobselVith8]

I think the meeting was in reference to the Warden meeting - either by killing her or agreeing to lie to Morrigan.  In part because Solas seems surprised and pleased that Mythal is still kicking around when you go to the Temple.

 

The Fifth Blight has been over for about a year by the time Merrill resurrects Asha'bellanar, although it does seem like Solas tried to find her on his own (since he mentions her abandoned hut in the Korcari Wilds). Although I think we're talking about two different scenes.

[Pinax]

(...)  it does seem like Solas tried to find her on his own (since he mentions her abandoned hut in the Korcari Wilds).

Apologies, but when and where?

[Shari'El]

Wish granted.

 

 

Source: http://fadedforher.t...st/109190743273

 

 

I seriously can never ignore this animation.

Everytime I see (whether in game or as a gif) my mind shuts.

 

This could be an effective tool for mind washing.

[Elven_Glory]

What's ironic is Solas and I are very alike, lol.

In that we hold on to what we think is right.

Solas and I are very alike, too. Introverted, passionate, and neither of us really "get" people. I think that's one of the reasons I like him so much. I might be slightly narcissistic.

[Missy_MI]

A dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion. And the codex entry for Fen'Harel as the God of Rebellion in Mythal's Temple:

http://dragonage.wik...:_The_Rebel_God

 

Well, I can guess why he was struck from the records, the magisters and other gods must have hated him.

 

<snip>

So, who is the outlier? Dirthamen. And I believe that this has some reason to do with him being the betrayer of Mythal. I do not believe he is dead, as we know that Mythal has yet to fulfill her vengeance. But where he would be, or what he is up to, is unknown.

 

I'm out of likes, but yay for theorycrafting! Two things:

 

1) Per Fen'Harel's symbol as inspiration for rebellion - isn't this symbol also carved beside his statue in the Temple of Mythal? I think someone here posted that forever ago in this thread. Also, there's some dialog with Solas where he basically says he's joined a number of causes. I'm sure he meant back in ancient times, but it would be interesting if he's woken up more than once throughout the years.

 

2) Concerning Dirthamen - he and Falon'Din share a special bond, like twin souls. Is it possible they are both trapped together in the same dragon?

[Colonelkillabee]

If the developers need Solas for a major plot development, it's going to happen regardless of PC relationship to him, because they wouldn't make a world-changing branch into something that can be determined by player choice.

Case in point Anders, like I said earlier.

[DarthEmpress]

Usually, I don't like it if romancing a character is the only way to 'save' them... but somehow I really, really like it with Solas.  Maybe because it's the only time - with a romanced Lavellan - that he truly opens up and questions his actions.  She's real so the world becomes more real.  He doesn't have that with an Inquisitor who's only a friend, and in some ways I think it works well that way because I think Solas is a romantic.  He's been alone for so long, without that romantic love.  He's just a big sap deep down

[LobselVith8]

Apologies, but when and where?

 

You can see the scene:

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Solas and I are very alike, too. Introvdrted, passionate, and neither of us really "get" people. I think that's one of the reasons I like him so much. I might be slightly narcissistic.

 

Now I'm trying to think of what DA character *I* resemble most.  Probably Minaeve; I'm not nearly badass enough to resemble one of the principal cast 

[Elessara]

The Fifth Blight has been over for about a year by the time Merrill resurrects Asha'bellanar, although it does seem like Solas tried to find her on his own (since he mentions her abandoned hut in the Korcari Wilds). Although I think we're talking about two different scenes.

 

Flemeth saves Hawke and co. from the darkspawn at the beginning of the Blight and as payment asks that Hawke deliver the amulet.  I believe this is the point where Hawke asks why Flemeth can't deliver the amulet herself and she says she has a meeting to keep.  Or Hawke might ask that after Merrill resurrects Flemeth which still works.  Flemeth had a meeting to keep and thus could not take the amulet to the Dalish and needed Hawke to do so.  Hawke still gets the amulet at the beginning of the Blight.  That the Blight had been over for about a year after Flemeth re-emerges doesn't really matter.  At least not to Flemeth who says she'd half expected the amulet to be sold to a merchant anyway.

[Elessara]

I'm out of likes, but yay for theorycrafting! Two things:

 

1) Per Fen'Harel's symbol as inspiration for rebellion - isn't this symbol also carved beside his statue in the Temple of Mythal? I think someone here posted that forever ago in this thread. Also, there's some dialog with Solas where he basically says he's joined a number of causes. I'm sure he meant back in ancient times, but it would be interesting if he's woken up more than once throughout the years.

 

2) Concerning Dirthamen - he and Falon'Din share a special bond, like twin souls. Is it possible they are both trapped together in the same dragon?

 

Concering Dirthamen and Falon'Din ... what if it's a god with a split personality?  Cause we totally need a schizophrenic deity out there, right?

[LobselVith8]

Flemeth saves Hawke and co. from the darkspawn at the beginning of the Blight and as payment asks that Hawke deliver the amulet.  I believe this is the point where Hawke asks why Flemeth can't deliver the amulet herself and she says she has a meeting to keep.  Or Hawke might ask that after Merrill resurrects Flemeth which still works.  Flemeth had a meeting to keep and thus could not take the amulet to the Dalish and needed Hawke to do so.  Hawke still gets the amulet at the beginning of the Blight.  That the Blight had been over for about a year after Flemeth re-emerges doesn't really matter.  At least not to Flemeth who says she'd half expected the amulet to be sold to a merchant anyway.

 

Asha'bellanar makes reference to a meeting and not wanting to be followed on Sundermount, if Hawke asks why she needed to be smuggled. It's followed by her mentioning Morrigan, and Hawke asking Asha'bellanar what she is. I do think that Asha'bellanar knew that Hawke could be trusted to keep his (or her) end of the bargain, since she also seemed to know that the Fifth Blight would happen in Ferelden decades prior when she encountered Maric and Loghain in "The Stolen Throne".

[Sister Squish]

Spoiler

Warning, this is really long. I figured I'd just cramp it all into a master post with different sections. This way you can skip the theories you are already familiar with/have no interest in. Though, they are all built upon each-other somewhat. I tried to form these on as much evidence as I could gather. Some of them are more loosely based, and this is all just speculation, but I am hoping you all may be able to add to or deduct them based on what you, yourselves, have found. 

 

First is about the possibility of Andraste having been an Old God Baby:

Spoiler

Taken from The World of Thedas:

-203 Ancient: Coordinating a massive army from Thedas, the Grey Wardens defeat the Archdemon Dumat at the Battle of the Silent Plains, ending the First Blight.

-203 Ancient: The prophet Andraste is born in Ferelden.

 

It may just be a huge coincidence, but it does lead towards the possibility of Andraste being an Old God Baby. Then there is this codex detaling on how Andraste's bloodline consisted of only daughters. It is possible that the Old God soul has been passed on from daughter to daughter until reaching Flemeth.

Spoiler

Whom now intends for the soul to be passed on to Morrigan, according to the mined developer notes.

Also, meaning that Mythal is Dumat. This is furthered with the Silentir astrarium:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...ation:_Silentir

 

Additionally, there is some similar iconography associated with the two figures:

Spoiler

-notice the headpiece. Though, Meredith wears the same thing. I am guessing her motivation was to mirror Andraste, but why Flemeth wears it may just be another small, well tiny perhaps, hint of the relationship between the two. 

 

Then there's also this:

Spoiler

Taken in the final battle from a user on Reddit: http://www.reddit.co...f_sacred_ashes/

 

Mythal's mosiac in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, as in, where Andraste's ashes were, and the only mosiac in the entire temple. I honestly can't think of a rational explanation to this, other than there being some type of relationship between the two. Another user in the previous thread speculated that it may have just been that the building was built upon old Elven ruins, without knowing their original foundations, but, combined with everything, I believe it makes a rather compelling case. 

 

The next one is Draconis, the 'unkown' eighth God. And also Solas centered for you ladies.  

Spoiler

(I just copied and pasted this one, so the post is a bit out of context, but you get the general idea.)

 

More incoming, I loaded up my game and I think I found something(!!!) 

 

So, here I am, going back to the Draconis astrarium, and I finish with a pretty little symbol:

Spoiler

And I thought, hey, I know that symbol! I am in the midst of my current DA2 playthrough, and that symbol is painted on every little nook and cranny of Kirkwall:

Spoiler

Spoiler

So, I scour the wiki in a quest of answers. And I stumble upon this jewel in the entry for Kirkwall's symbol:

 

"This stylized knot work representation of a dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion etched into countless walls during the time when Kirkwall was a center for the Tevinter slave trade. It was an image that catalyzed the slaves who overthrew the ruling magisters, and while the symbol has changed, its meaning has not: Kirkwall is a city unto itself, beholden to no one."

 

A dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion. And the codex entry for Fen'Harel as the God of Rebellion in Mythal's Temple:

http://dragonage.wik...:_The_Rebel_God

 

Well, I can guess why he was struck from the records, the magisters and other gods must have hated him. 

That red symbol is painted over the standard Kirkwall symbol only in the lower parts of the city (Lowtown and Darktown.) Also, recall that Kirkwall had a slave rebellion before it officially became Kirkwall. I can just imagine the implications if slaves rose up in Fen'Harel's name, whether he was leading them or not. I believe that would be enough for them to strike him from record. Either way, I believe this may be more slight evidence towards the Old Gods being the Pantheon, and which God Draconis is. 

 

So, thoughts? Is it true? Am I mad crafting theorist going off of nothing? 

 

Annnnd here's where it just gets more into speculation with light evidence, but still possible. This is about the connection between Mythal and the Maker:

Spoiler

Digging into Andraste's sermons, and I find these:

 

First is the codex entry for Here Lies the Abyss:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik..._Lies_the_Abyss

I believed that this might be a possible reference to Well of Sorrows. Googling this, and I come upon an exerpt from The Calling: 

 

In it, Maric and Fiona stumble upon an underground lake, and Maric quotes the lines from Andraste's Sermons. Now, here is the good part:

Spoiler

"Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew." He raised an eyebrow when he saw she didn't recognize the quote. "It's from the Chant of Light."...

"Oh. It's where Andraste goes to speak to the Maker for the first time. It's where she convinces him to forgive mankind. It was supposed to be this beautiful temple deep under the earth surrounded by emerald waters."

Of course, Maric and Fiona are in the deep roads in this portion, so it is highly unlikely that they came upon the Temple itself, but rather just that this place reminded him of it. But, this does tell us that the Well of all Souls not only was a temple, but is where Andraste spoke to the Maker. Also, surrounded by emerald waters.

 

Here is concept art from Inquisition, depicting what I believe to be the Temple of Mythal: 

Spoiler

This image shows part of the temple as being underground as well. Could it be that the Well of all Souls was the Well of Sorrows? And this is where Andraste apparently spoke to the Maker. So, possibly the maker actually was just some idea based off of Mythal. 

 

And more speculation, from the codex of Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts

The fact that the Maker refers to the Old Gods as his children is very important. We know that Mythal is the all-mother to the other Gods. This excerpt describes that, not only were the Old Gods the Maker's children, but were his first children. In all of the other sermons from the chantry, the Maker's first children are described as the fade spirits. This sermon, however, would indicate that the Old Gods were the first, or perhaps the spirits he first created just included the Old Gods. Either way, we know now that the Maker is the one who created them.

 

Based on the previous theory, this gets into some tantalizing speculation on the identity of Mythal's betrayer:

Spoiler

Again from the Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts codex:

http://dragonage.wik...d_Wicked_Hearts
 

The First of My children, lost to night. Night? This could be a reference to Lusacan the God of Night. And, is apparently the last God expected to awaken. So, this may be a possible indication towards direct conflict between the Maker and Lusacan. Where the Maker some how lost the other Old Gods to Lusacan. 

 

Or, if you believe that the Maker may have been an ideal based off of Mythal, then there is also this codex, making the connection between Lusacan and Falon'Din:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...tion:_Tenebrium

By this, could Falon'Din have been the betrayer of Mythal? We know he amassed wars for adulation, until Mythal finally stopped him, by Solas's explanation in the Temple of Mythal:

Spoiler

However, the word betrayal indicates that the attack was by someone unexpected. Who is extremely close to Falon'Din and would likely betray his mother for him? Dirthamen. 

 

If you are still reading this you are a trooper. Last part, I promise. Theory on which of the Elven Gods corresponds to each of the Old Gods. 

Spoiler

Based on previous posts:

 

Dumat (Silence) - Mythal

Draconis (Rebellion) - Fen'Harel

Lusacan (Night) - Falon'Din 

Toth (Fire) - Sylaise. Both as gods of Fire.

 

Zazikel (Chaos) - Likely Elgar'nan, due to his rather vibrant nature. He was known to have had to been calmed by Mythal, and few would risk triggering his wrath due to the devastation it caused, so I believe that chaos fits well. This would also make him the second arch-demon to have arisen. 

 

Razikale (Mystery) - Andruil. I would have never made this connection myself, and had previously thought Dirthamen. But here is the codex entry for Razikale's constellation:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...llation:_Eluvia

Who else do we know to be a Goddess of Sacrifice? Solas's Temple of Mythal banter:

Spoiler

Also, this constellation is represented by a woman, making it less likely to be one of the male Gods.

So, due to this association, I believe that Andruil is the most likely candidate. Also placing her as the sixth Old God, yet to be awakened.

 

Urthemiel (Beauty) - Ghilan'nain. Urthemiel's constellation also depicts a woman, described as 'The Maiden.'

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...ion:_Bellitanus

It would then make sense that Urthemiel would correlate to a female Goddess. And, Ghilan'nain's codex entry makes a point of described her as beautiful:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...er_of_the_Halla

 

Andoral (Slaves) - It could be either June or Dirthamen. June's codex does not give much away(unsuprisingly, he is apprently the wild card.) But, you may perhaps  make a loose association with this in the entry:

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik...od_of_the_Craft

And the People were no longer cold and hungry. It sounds as though perhaps the elves were homeless, and June was able to provide for them (maybe by making them slaves?) It reminded me of the conversation with Dorian, where he relates the general attitude towards slavery as a good thing, or at least better than letting the poor starve and become homeless. A bit of a weak connection either way, but like I said, we just do not have enough information on June yet. 

 

So, who is the outlier? Dirthamen. And I believe that this has some reason to do with him being the betrayer of Mythal. I do not believe he is dead, as we know that Mythal has yet to fulfill her vengeance. But where he would be, or what he is up to, is unknown. 

 

And that's the end of it! So, thoughts? Is this all just wild speculation with not a hair of truth? I think that alone, the details are insignificant, but when put together make a slightly convincing possibility. But, is there anything that someone here has gathered that would support or contradict any of this?

 

Edit: I just saw the posts about spoiling it, is it okay as it is? I can always divide it up into different posts or remove some if it is causing problems on anyone's computer.

 

I am just watching this and [Sashimi's Mythal Video] amazing, so many thoughts. I hadn't considered the possibility that Mythal may have been heavily involved with Andraste's life without actually being Dumat, but orchestrated the Dark ritual to save the soul, much in the way that she did for Urthemiel. This would also explain how Mythal was able to exist, considering she was murdered. I was not sure how she would still have been an Old Dragon God when the others, or at least Solas, presumed her to be dead. the only thing I can think of against this is the Silentir constellation that depicts Dumat as Mythal, but that is still just only really light evidence, and could have just been meant to depict a relationship between the two, rather than relate that Dumat was Mythal. And if Dumat isn't Mythal, which of the gods do you believe he would be? Elgar'nan perhaps? And this would leave enough room for each of the Pantheon to be an Old God.

 

Also, you brought up the points about Falon'Din and Andruil! I forgot about that little adventure with Andruil, and why she may have had a penchant of betrayal out for Mythal as well. And this somewhat adds to the theory of the last two remaining gods being Andruil and Falon'Din. I am willing to bet that Dirthamen is involved in some way too, if Falon'Din is. That emphasis about Flemeth's 'reckoning' in the video has me a little worried.

 

Sorry it is taking me so long to catch up! These are amazing Aravasia, good job putting them together! [Solas Approves] 

I may address these individually, as there is a frustrating limit to the amount of quotes in a post! 

 

Mythal as Dumat

  Consensus of this thread, I believe, is: agreement for the timing of Dumat's death and Andraste's birth as very suspicious. It is generally believed this is being hinted at through the player being introduced to the idea of a corrupted Old God being "cleansed" through being born into an "innocent" body in the form of DA:O's "dark ritual". 

  There are different interpretations regarding Dumat's identity, however. Most (not all) subscribe to the idea that Tevinter Old Gods are Elven Pantheon members. 

  It is true that Mythal and Andraste share a penchant for birthing females instead of males. DA often highlights the importance of bloodlines, and "blood" as the manifestation of "will" in general. One interpretation is that Andraste is one of many descendants of Mythal, and this gives her a unique connection to Mythal and her abilities (as seen in Morrigan). 

  It is possible that Mythal was Dumat, and reborn as Andraste. However, it is equally possible to believe that Mythal, even as Dumat, would not have motivation to convince Corypheus to act as he did. Andraste, like Corypheus, heard whispers (believing it to be the Maker) but the ambitions of the two seem to clash. 

  madrar theorises that Dumat is instead Falon'Din. 

 

Other theories on the identity of Mythal and Dumat: 

Spoiler

 

I'm still the person who thinks Mythal is Dumat as I think her death/ betrayal is a damn good reason to call her the Dragon of Silence. Should she be The Laughing Lady of the Skies, a God who once actively participated in the lives of men who suddenly disappears, and the prayers and offerings to her to fall on seemingly deaf ears.. her evolution into a god/ dragon of silence is a super logical jump. I also find the connection between Andraste's birth, the Death of Dumat, the female-centric bloodline of Andraste, and the implications of Tyrdda Bright-Axe to be such that I can't see Andraste as anything other than an Old God vessel like Kieran. Dragon Age: Origins made it very clear how and under what circumstances that ritual is to be performed.

But I'm also not a believer of the triple threat theory. I think secrets --> mystery is a more natural progression for Dirthamen. Moreover, it also fits with character revealed in Tyrdda. He is ALL about whispering secrets and mysteries in dreams wiser men should ignore. The prevalence of crows in game, the Dirthamen temple mission, the Watcher statue in the Emerald Graves, the impaled Watcher Statue in Mythal's section of the Fade, and the revealing of the Tyrdda epic within this game lead me to see Dirthamen as the next big bad. Which makes sense. Because Razikale is said to be the next Old God in line to become an Archdemon.

 

Plus, twin soul double dragon blight if Falon'Din were Lusacan and Dirthamen were Razikale. That's the BEST bet of a Blight that could truly break Thedas beyond recovery. Which the sadomasochistic storyteller in me wants SO BAD. You all don't even know.

Again, this is just my opinion from how I've interpreted the Lore, but it is by no means the only way to see or understand it. I have no desire to be confrontational or judge you or your theory personally. Just voicing my personal discrepancies and providing an alternate view point.

 

This astrarium about Silentir links Mythal, Dumat and a man carrying a horn and wand. Hmmm. Couldn't help but think of Solas' drinking horn and staff. I'd be more convinced if the horn showed up in his tarot.




<snip>

 

<snip>

Mythal as a potential Archdemon:   Mythal is a unique case in terms of the Pantheon, and understanding what makes her different does a lot to explain why being Dumat (or any of the Archdemons) doesn't seem possible.  Conceptually, OGS-piloting a dragon uses the fade like an eluvian crossroads: it requires an OGS to be drawn from the original body and redirected into the dragon "vehicle".  The key here is that Mythal doesn't have a connection to the fade of Thedas.  She is, conceptually, a very small fragment of the soul of Earth, one of the two powerful pre-veil entities that created the world.  Consequently, she's not connected to the fade like the other members of the Pantheon are.  In much the same way that the Fade can be conceived of as the soul or fade-shadow of Thedas, Mythal carries around a fragment of her own Fade, the independent source of her power.  The fact that she is fundamentally distinct from Thedas and its Fade means her OGS cannot be redirected via Falon'Din's fade-crossroads: not to an OGS vehicle and not to another body when she dies.  This is why her soul haunts the physical world each time she's sacrificed, and why she's forced to wait for a willing host to take her in.  

 

A second important thing to note here is that all of Mythal's magic draws from this internal, finite source- the last of which is granted to Solas at the end of DAI.  Her OGS however, as we conceive of it, goes elsewhere.  To Morrigan. 

 

If our basic understanding here isn't flawed, this distinction is important.  Solas is not Mythalolas now.  He is still just Solas, gifted with what remained of Mythal's fade power.  This means what we conceive of as OGSes and fade shadows are not the same thing, if you see what I'm getting at.  Mythal gave her fade-shadow to Solas, and her OGS to Morrigan.

 

This is where terminology makes things more confusing than they should be  Conceptually we're primed to conceive of beings as having two parts: a physical body and a soul- and this is basically true of all the mortal races of Thedas.  We call OGSes "Old God Souls", but by all appearances an OGS may be, in fact, far more representative of the physical side of existence.  It is the concentrated Will of an entity: its identity, its Self, its memories.  Unlike spirits, the core nature of an OGS seems to be persistent and unchanging.  And tellingly, each one also seems intimately tied to a Duty or Purpose.  

 

This, I think, might be the key to understanding what OGSes actually are, and why they exist.  It's possible they're the embodiment of powers granted by Mythal early in Thedas' primordial history, which the granted entity was expected to use in the performance of a specific eternal Duty in service of the People and the Stone.  ...maybe?  

 

AAAH.  No.  Let me back right up out of that train of thought, because it's heading straight to uncooked crazytown, which is nowhere near your other questions.  

 

Sera and Andruil.  Sera seems to be carrying Andruil's OGS, just as Flemeth carries Mythal and Sandal June.  She is Andruil reborn, from a certain perspective- the critical distinction being that Andruil's OGS was wiped clean of her original memories. 

 

When an entity dies in DA, its fade-shadow seems to be severed from the physical body, becoming what we know as a fade spirit.  Without a direct source to reflect, this spirit quickly loses its sense of who it was.  There are exceptions to this, of course: in much the same way that elves seem to direct Will to their spirits to enter uthenera, it seems possible for dying entities (through sheer willpower) to grant their soul a degree of persistent Will which allows that sense of self to persist longer than it normally would.  Conceptually, this is what a "ghost" is.  By clinging to Will and a sense of purpose (to right a wrong, to watch over a loved one, to exact vengeance, etc) a fade-shadow sustains a degree of identity and personal memory.  This requires focused intent, however- and in the case of the Old Gods as Archdemons, being blight-maddened at the point of death isn't entirely conducive to the idea.  Also, given the effect of red lyrium and blight in general, it's not certain how much 'self' the Archdemon might still possess at the time of their death, independent of what might be additionally lost crossing the veil.    

 

Kieran ought be able to answer that particular question, but frustratingly enough the Inquisitor can't ask and Ghil seems to be playing coy.  It's impossible to tell from the outside whether her OGS is fully awake and aware, having retained her sense of self and memory Mythal-style when she was removed from the blighted Archdemon body, or whether Kieran's insights into the Inquisitor's genetics are like Sera's marksmanship and Sandal's craft- granting the skill but having lost the sense of self.  

 

Of course, the pointed question here is that if we assume triple threat theory to be true, what does that mean in terms of what happened to Dirthamen-Dumat when his OGS was pulled through the veil?  

 

The assumption I'm working from at the moment is that Dirthamen-Solas was wiped.  I think Falon'Din was able to direct his OGS back into a body and infuse him with a fairly strong degree of the shared Self that it retained, but it couldn't restore his original memories.  Solas would have known who and what he was and had a sense of his Duty, but as far as personal history was concerned, he probably had to do exactly what he claims he did: learn it all from scratch by exploring the Fade.  

 

So that's one possible explanation for why he completely drops out of sight after Andraste's death.  He's in the fade full-time, trying to relearn everything.

<snip>

 

Before I start, a quick note that everything that follows uses “Sun” and “Earth” as convenient Dalish references for the two primordial, draconic beings whose collaboration seems to have created the DA:I universe.  

 

Spoiler

(…or at least this part of it.  The “seraphim” = “fiery serpents” = “dragons” connection raises a strong possibility that there is an even more primordial Maker who crafted them in turn.  Theoretical existence aside, the Sun and Earth seem to be the creators of Thedas as we know it.)

 

Do they still exist?

 

Yes.  The available evidence suggests that the being generally referred to as Mythal was the primordial Earth entity.  The Sun is known by no other name by the mortals of Thedas, since it was imprisoned before mortal recorded history in the Void: a localized pocket of space-time accessible by eluvian, most likely located in the Dark City.  His blood has been fundamentally twisted since his imprisonment, sundering the original Song into what we know of as red lyrium, (possibly the unintentional result of tinkering by Ghilan'nain) which was in turn likely modified into Blight by the Architect.

 

ANYWAY.  ON TO THE THEORY.

<snip>

 

 

Okay, so I can't contribute to lore much - although I love reading it. My "expertise" is analyzing characters and the story. I have a theory as to what future DLC may hold. I get a bit rambly and too detailed at times, so please bear with me.

 

I am wary of Flemeth. I don't think she's the typical villain type like Corypheus, who is cliched as all get-out. When y'all pointed that out, it raised a red flag. 

 

The first clue is the name of the age and the games: dragon. Flemeth can transform into a dragon, perhaps she is a dragon, she is Mythal. Perhaps BioWare is telling us right up front that this age was not just named because dragons began appearing again...but because Flemeth may change the world.

 

She has appeared in all three games, leaving us with more questions and just a few clues that would help us connect with what occurred in DAI. She is clever, powerful, and dangerous, a frightening combination. A typically villainous combination, but we know BioWare doesn't like to make a bad guy look like a bad guy. If they do...they're just distracting us.

 

And so comes in Corypheus.

 

I love Cory, I think he's awesome, but he's a terribly shallow character. BioWare could have easily fleshed him out, made us sympathize with him - and while we kind of do in a sense, we don't care about him like we do Flemeth, Solas, Morrigan, or Loghain. 

 

So what is BioWare distracting us from? Not Solas or Morrigan: they were shoved in front of us with a big sign reading "PAY ATTENTION TO THEM." Nearly everything these two intend has been revealed upfront. BioWare is showing us their hand, and hiding the ace in their sleeve; and we know it's there...we just don't know when they are going to play it; but we have an idea: when there are higher stakes. 

 

Flemeth is that ace, and the winning card just happens to be Mythal, the murdered goddess intent on justice and vengeance on those who killed her. But they're gone...right? 

 

No. They're stuck somewhere.

 

Who stuck them in eternal time-out? Solas. 

 

Solas, I'm sure, is the only person who can find the Creators and free them. Hence the importance of the focci, and Solas taking Flemeth's power. Flemeth allowed Solas to take her power, but I doubt it was all of it...just enough for Solas to do what he must...or what she wants him to do.

 

Solas, I think, is too distracted by his own guilt, sorrow, and pride to realize he very well may be being used by Flemeth. Or, he does realize it but he doesn't give a **** because he is so convinced that what he did was wrong, and he will do anything to undo it despite the consequences of another god's wrath...a wrath that may destroy everything. He is so ****** lonely, he is willing to risk being killed just to end it.

 

But Flemeth wants to kill the ones who murdered her/Mythal. How exactly will she go about that?

 

Not quietly. From the stories, she went all out on enacting justice. Have ulterior motives? Dead. Imagined slight? Dead. No real mercy, no slap on the hand. Poof. Dead. And it may not stop just there. 

 

Flemeth has been in the background for too long for me to feel safe anymore. She is pulling the strings, saving the chess pieces that keep the world going for her benefit so she can have her vengeance. 

 

The world was betrayed? By who?

 

The elven gods? 

The Maker?

Tevinter?

 

By Solas for locking away the only ones who could save Arlathan?

 

I believe Solas' story isn't just about redemption. It's about saving him.

 

Spoiler

Taken in the final battle from a user on Reddit: http://www.reddit.co...f_sacred_ashes/

 

Mythal's mosiac in the Temple of Sacred Ashes, as in, where Andraste's ashes were, and the only mosiac in the entire temple. I honestly can't think of a rational explanation to this, other than there being some type of relationship between the two. Another user in the previous thread speculated that it may have just been that the building was built upon old Elven ruins, without knowing their original foundations, but, combined with everything, I believe it makes a rather compelling case. 

 

There is evidence to suggest that the site of the Temple of Sacred Ashes, where Andraste's ashes were taken to, is also the site which used to be a temple to Mythal. I believe the reasoning involved images depicting Harvard carrying the ashes to the site, linked with the story of Mythal subduing maddened-Andruil at the base of a mountain and history of "barbarian" clans in that area.

(I am failing to find the evidence and will probably come back with it, unless anyone can help out?) 

[Pinax]

You can see the scene:

 

Thank you so much! I saw this in the game, although I didn't interpret it as Solas looking for Flemeth, though now I think of it I can't see any other reason why he could go there.

[Elessara]

Asha'bellanar makes reference to a meeting and not wanting to be followed on Sundermount, if Hawke asks why she needed to be smuggled. It's followed by her mentioning Morrigan, and Hawke asking Asha'bellanar what she is. I do think that Asha'bellanar knew that Hawke could be trusted to keep his (or her) end of the bargain, since she seemed to know that the Fifth Blight would happen in Ferelden decades prior when she encountered Maric and Loghain in "The Stolen Throne".

 

Yeah but the timing is still, Hawke gets amulet at the beginning of the Blight and if they ask Flemeth why then Flemeth will mention the meeting - she'll say she had a meeting to keep (past tense) if I recall correctly.  So whatever meeting she needed to get to was sometime after the beginning of the Blight and could still reference the meeting with the Warden.  Which I think is what this conversation was about I've kind of lost track haha.

[Colonelkillabee]

Lol who decides what's a consensus in these lore summaries? I don't think the consensus is Mythal is dumat.

[Maria13]

Apologies, but when and where?

 

In one of his dialogues about things he's seen in the Fade he mentions an abandoned hut in the Kocari wilds which is untouched because everything around it is scared of its former inhabitants...

 

* Ninja'ed*

[Sister Squish]

Lol who decides what's a consensus in these lore summaries? I don't think the consensus is Mythal is dumat.

 

The consensus being that the birth and death timing is suspicious, not that Mythal is dumat. 

Edited for your clarity, Colonel  

[Colonelkillabee]

The consensus being that the birth and death timing is suspicious, not that Mythal is dumat. 

Ah k, the wording and setup made it look that way to me.

[MoonDrummer]

I don't know why, but I hate the idea of Elven gods=old gods. I wouuld rather forgotten ones=old gods.

[Avejajed]

Well I wasn't trying to be controversial by my statement that I believed romancing Solas may be the only way for him not to be mostly a villian- or to save him from whatever his inner demons are.

I simply think that because of his tarot. A romanced tarot is the only change Solas has unlike other companions (romancable) that have a few options.

It just as likely it means nothing

[LobselVith8]

I don't know why, but I hate the idea of Elven gods=old gods. I wouuld rather forgotten ones=old gods.

 

It would certainly fit more into the idea of the Forgotten Ones being banished into "the abyss", since the Creators were supposedly trapped in the Eternal City.

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't know why, but I hate the idea of Elven gods=old gods. I wouuld rather forgotten ones=old gods.

I think it's more or less a blend, but I'm inclined to agree. The astrariums pointed to this too. I think the majority of them are forgotten ones personally. Makes more sense with their obvious rivalry.

 

Mythal being an old god though, even though I don't think is true, does make sense since she was betrayed and obviously not on the side of the elven pantheon anymore after that.