153431 réponses à ce sujet

[Siha]

I also quite don't understand the relation Morrigan and Flemeth have: it's really a love/hate relationship. Really, a psychologist would be needed to unplot this twist.

 

What is also interesting is that Flemeth in DA:O claims the 5th Blight is far more dangerous than it seems, something which may destroy even her. Is there some additional threat she fears of? Like: being corrupted herself? Need to think about it.

 

One more vague thought here: can't say too much why now but I tend to incline to a thought that Fen'Harel is actually Mythal's son. But do you refer to your own son as "old friend"? :/ Can the Quizzy joke in Temple of Mythal that Solas and Morrigan when they argue they look like they could have kissed each other? This does not make sense :/ Unless Flemythal is really his mother, but hides the truth from the Dread Wolf...? Just a thought.

 

No, the relationship between Morrigan and Flemeth is not so strange, really. Flemeth raised Morrigan to be a free mind, a strong and self-confident person who will not take sh** from anyone. That combines with Morrigan's individual character result in the sort of love/hate you mentioned. Morrigan sees Flemeth as a danger, there's a lot of rivalry and misunderstanding on Morrigan's side. Flemeth does not try very hard to resolve the issue and so all that's left for Morrigan is her fear and anger at Flemeth (or rather: at what she expects from Flemeth, not even something she has actually done) while still having all the fond childhood memories. I think this sort of relationship is pretty common in many families.

 

But, did Flemeth really say the Blight was dangerous than it seems? I am rather sure she said something about how there is something (anything) much more dangerous than the obvious threat. No? At least I always had this understanding, that the Blight is not the actual problem in her eyes. I might have misunderstood though.
 

About the relationship between Solas and Flemeth, I do not have a theory there. But I want to point out that the relationships between gods of the Greek and Roman mythology are pretty messed up, too. Just read into it, a daughter can be mother and lover and sister at the same time. I assume this is all due to those gods being rather essences/ideas than creatures. So a god representing life/earth can be son but also husband of a god representing the light/sun. If BioWare used a similar approach I would not cling too tightly to established relationship models.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Well I wasn't trying to be controversial by my statement that I believed romancing Solas may be the only way for him not to be mostly a villian- or to save him from whatever his inner demons are.

I simply think that because of his tarot. A romanced tarot is the only change Solas has unlike other companions (romancable) that have a few options.

It just as likely it means nothing

 

It is his romanced tarot that gives me the most hope for him.  I mean, just look at that fluffy white puppy!  It couldn't possibly be evil! 

[Colonelkillabee]

I think it's more or less a blend, but I'm inclined to agree. The astrariums pointed to this too. I think the majority of them are forgotten ones personally. Makes more sense with their obvious rivalry.

 

Mythal being an old god though, even though I don't think is true, does make sense since she was betrayed and obviously not on the side of the elven pantheon anymore after that.

Also, her being the "god of silence" would be fitting since she was murdered and thought dead.

[Elessara]

I rather wish they had added in more tarot card changes.  I know, resources and all but ... Hostile, Neutral, Friend, Romance ... or instead of Friend, it's Personal Quest Resolution?  As I'm not sure you can get the personal quests if you're on the hostile side?  Honestly don't know about that.  Although it seems that the devs wanted the card changes to also represent large turning points for the companions.  And that could be a lot of card changes.  But it would have been nice to have a change in card for Cassandra as she was often besties with my various Inquisitors.  Or a change in card for Solas if he's a friend.

[RynJ]

I think we might be putting too much stock into those tarot cards. I think they were just an artistic way to represent something important about the characters. They might have little hints at something more in them but I doubt they carry any heavy hints at the trajectory of the game.

 

It'd be nice if fluffy white wolf tarot card meant something good, though!

[jellobell]

He looks...surprisingly good in that.

 

So I've become addicted to listening to Solas-themed playlists on 8tracks, and Learn to be Lonely popped up suddenly on one of them. It made me sad. It's such a fitting Solas song.

 

 

Lyrics

 

Spoiler

Child of the wilderness

Born into emptiness
Learn to be lonely
Learn to find your way in darkness

 

Who will be there for you
Comfort and care for you
Learn to be lonely
Learn to be your one companion

 

Never dreamed out in the world
There are arms to hold you
You've always known your heart was on its own

 

So laugh in your loneliness
Child of the wilderness
Learn to be lonely
Learn how to love life that is lived alone

 

Learn to be lonely
Life can be lived, life can be loved alone

[Elven_Glory]

Have we yet touched on the idea that even when Solas said he experienced things "in the fade," it may not have been an outright lie, but more of a half truth, since he was speaking of (as Cole says) "a time before, when everything sang the same." Which I take to mean a time when the fade and the real world were, more or less, intertwined? So he really did experience it in the fade, but also in reality, since theyhad not yet been separated...

Work with me here. I'm trying to rationalize his words because, after having my heart broken multiple times by dubious behavior, I ****** hate liars.

And by "I" I mean my Lavellan.

But really I mean me.

[MoonDrummer]

This may sound stupid, but what actually is the void?

 

Also did Caridin make his Anvil from it in the same way Andruil made her armour?

[Elessara]

Have we yet touched on the idea that even when Solas said he experienced things "in the fade," it may not have been an outright lie, but more of a half truth, since he was speaking of (as Cole says) "a time before, when everything sang the same." Which I take to mean a time when the fade and the real world were, more or less, intertwined? So he really did experience it in the fade, but also in reality, since theyhad not yet been separated...

Work with me here. I'm trying to rationalize his words because, after having my heart broken multiple times by dubious behavior, I ****** hate liars.

And by "I" I mean my Lavellan.

But really I mean me.

 

Maybe he experienced events personally but *also* saw them replayed out in memories in the Fade.  So he still wouldn't be lying.

[Avejajed]

I think we might be putting too much stock into those tarot cards. I think they were just an artistic way to represent something important about the characters. They might have little hints at something more in them but I doubt they carry any heavy hints at the trajectory of the game.

It'd be nice if fluffy white wolf tarot card meant something good, though!

I actually think that's one thing they did put a lot of thought into. But I am actually legit obsessed with the artwork, so I may be bias.

[Siha]

Apologies, but when and where?

Noone seems to have answered to this, so:

If you inquire about his Fade experiences he will come up with a story about an old hut. Something like "she was gone but the people fear she might come back". I am sure YouTube knows details.

 

Edit: Sorry, I missed a complete page. So... just ignore me.

[RynJ]

So, to lighten things up with discussion of Solas being a dirty liar going on, what are some little headcanons you all have about him? Because I know we all spend way too much time thinking about him. 

[Pinax]

(...)

But, did Flemeth really say the Blight was dangerous than it seems? I am rather sure she said something about how there is something (anything) much more dangerous than the obvious threat. No? At least I always had this understanding, that the Blight is not the actual problem in her eyes. I might have misunderstood though.

Look, around 4:50 - 5:54 https://www.youtube....h?v=BlIK7ATi4Yw

 

Flemeth: "They need you, Morrigan. Without you, they will surely fail, and all will perish under the Blight. Even I".

6:15, again Flemeth: "And you, Wardens? Do you understand? I give you that which I value above all in this world. I do this, because you must succeed".

 

It seems it's The Blight for her, at least as per my understanding.

 

About the relationship between Solas and Flemeth, I do not have a theory there. But I want to point out that the relationships between gods of the Greek and Roman mythology are pretty messed up, too. Just read into it, a daughter can be mother and lover and sister at the same time. I assume this is all due to those gods being rather essences/ideas than creatures. So a god representing life/earth can be son but also husband of a god representing the light/sun. If BioWare used a similar approach I would not cling too tightly to established relationship models.

It's true, although I think in Greek mythology the relations are rather clear (not always very healthy though ) at least compared to what I know for example about the Egyptian mythology which is very confusing for me, from the "who is who" point of view.

 

However as for god relations nomenclature, your post made me think of the concern on Vikings mythology. Quite long post, so hiding it under spoiler tag.

Spoiler

In general for years scientists analysing the Viking sagas were persuaded the Viking pantheon is extremely large, with lots of unnamed gods and goddesses having countless interactions. This changes when they started to dig in the constructions of sagas and particularly the so called kennings which are multi-level metaphors referring the audience into their knowledge of pantheon and general cultural/historical knowledge. For example a kenning on Solas could be: "a bald wolf kind descendant of ancient Arlathan, old friend of the Great Protector" (or something much more nicer than that, but I hope you get what I mean ) and in order to understand that this is actually this Solas you would need to know already about how he looks and his conversation with Flemeth already revealed as Mythal.

 

The thing is kennings had many levels, a metaphor was hidden inside another metaphor; the scientists originally analysing the sagas didn't catch up all the cross references and assumed each reference is about a new entity and not a new perspective on an entity already known, which lead into confusion I wrote about.

 

Sagas are plenty of kennings, as actually the sign of a high skill of a skald was to introduce as much levels of the metaphor possible.

I wonder if such kind of analysis is not something we're trying with the Old Gods/elvhen pantheon associations.

[Elven_Glory]

Maybe he experienced events personally but *also* saw them replayed out in memories in the Fade. So he still wouldn't be lying.

That is also a possibility. I was thinking like... he experienced them both in and out of the fade at the same time, since once there may have been no distinction, so saying he experienced them while in the fade would be the truth, but only on technicality.

Edit: idk. Made sense to me, and like I said, I really want to rationalize it.

[Jadestone]

Things got awesome in the Solas Chat today. So I made you all a Wolf Hunt DLC GIF.

Thanks to everyone who participated and cheered me on through to the morning light! HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU JADE AND RABBIT. 

You can find it on my tumblr!

Also guys, totally want to know what your Lavellan's personal rant to him in this GIF would be. I NEED TO KNOW.

 

 

still not over Abelas' awkward glance at Lavellan's boobs. Poor guy can't catch a break. 

 

 

and it was a pleasure to watch this come to life!

[Valeria Lavellan]

Im working on this now C:

 

Spoiler

   

[Elven_Glory]

Things got awesome in the Solas Chat today. So I made you all a Wolf Hunt DLC GIF.
Thanks to everyone who participated and cheered me on through to the morning light! HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU JADE AND RABBIT.
You can find it on my tumblr!
Also guys, totally want to know what your Lavellan's personal rant to him in this GIF would be. I NEED TO KNOW.

I love this, it made me smile. And that's not so easy to do right now...

For my Lavellan, her rant would be more or less that of someone who wanted to be presented with all the information and then allowed to choose for herself. She hates having her decisions made for her, especially when she doesn't even know what the alternative would have been. She is really smart, she would have at least figured out enough to know that Solas was still keeping something from her, and since she, like him, is all about the information, she's not going to give up until she finds out what that something is.

[Valeria Lavellan]

Things got awesome in the Solas Chat today. So I made you all a Wolf Hunt DLC GIF.

Thanks to everyone who participated and cheered me on through to the morning light! HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU JADE AND RABBIT.

You can find it on my tumblr!

Also guys, totally want to know what your Lavellan's personal rant to him in this GIF would be. I NEED TO KNOW.

For my lavellan it would be

 

HE HIT IT AND QUIT IT! GET'EM!

[Pinax]

Things got awesome in the Solas Chat today. So I made you all a Wolf Hunt DLC GIF.

Thanks to everyone who participated and cheered me on through to the morning light! HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU JADE AND RABBIT.

You can find it on my tumblr!

Also guys, totally want to know what your Lavellan's personal rant to him in this GIF would be. I NEED TO KNOW.

My Lavellan's rant: "One does not grab Lavellan's butt and just goes away so easily!"

 

Edit: spelling

Modifié par Pinax, 01 février 2015 - 11:10 .

[Colonelkillabee]

My Lavellan's rant: "One does not grab Lavellan's butt and just goes away so easily!"

 

Edit: spelling

http://i.imgur.com/DgKkT5w.png

[Avejajed]

Gonna go watch the blizzard bowl guys. See you later! Go Seahawks!

[Maria13]

So, to lighten things up with discussion of Solas being a dirty liar going on, what are some little headcanons you all have about him? Because I know we all spend way too much time thinking about him. 

 

He's jesuitical, he never outright lies, he tells half truths, dodges questions and replies to a question other than that asked... 

[almasy87]

Guys, some pages ago someone posted a cute drawing about the quizzy jumping from the top of Leliana's tower, waving to Dorian and landing at the bottom in front of Solas.. I can't find it anymore and I forgot to save it D: Anyone has it handy?
Sorry for bothering

[NightSymphony]

Guys, some pages ago someone posted a cute drawing about the quizzy jumping from the top of Leliana's tower, waving to Dorian and landing at the bottom in front of Solas.. I can't find it anymore and I forgot to save it D: Anyone has it handy?
Sorry for bothering

http://maryloza.devi...-Jump-510249028

[Caddius]

 

Spoiler

 

 

Sorry it is taking me so long to catch up! These are amazing Aravasia, good job putting them together! [Solas Approves] 

I may address these individually, as there is a frustrating limit to the amount of quotes in a post! 

 

Mythal as Dumat

  Consensus of this thread, I believe, is: agreement for the timing of Dumat's death and Andraste's birth as very suspicious. We generally believe this is being hinted at through the player being introduced to the idea of a corrupted Old God being "cleansed" through being born into an "innocent" body in the form of DA:O's "dark ritual". 

  There are different interpretations regarding Dumat's identity, however. Most (not all) subscribe to the idea that Tevinter Old Gods are Elven Pantheon members. 

  It is true that Mythal and Andraste share a penchant for birthing females instead of males. DA often highlights the importance of bloodlines, and "blood" as the manifestation of "will" in general. One interpretation is that Andraste is one of many descendants of Mythal, and this gives her a unique connection to Mythal and her abilities (as seen in Morrigan). 

  It is possible that Mythal was Dumat, and reborn as Andraste. However, it is equally possible to believe that Mythal, even as Dumat, would not have motivation to convince Corypheus to act as he did. Andraste, like Corypheus, heard whispers (believing it to be the Maker) but the ambitions of the two seem to clash. 

  madrar theorises that Dumat is instead Falon'Din. 

 

Other theories on the identity of Mythal and Dumat: 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is evidence to suggest that the site of the Temple of Sacred Ashes, where Andraste's ashes were taken to, is also the site which used to be a temple to Mythal. I believe the reasoning involved images depicting Shartan carrying the ashes to the site, linked with the story of Mythal subduing maddened-Andruil at the base of a mountain and history of "barbarian" clans in that area.

(I am failing to find the evidence and will probably come back with it, unless anyone can help out?) 

 

So to address this and Aravasia's theories.

I completely missed the Sacrifice and Razikale connection.   Previously, the last two dragons being Razikale/Dirthamen and Lusacan/Falon'din just made sense to me, being Mystery and Night, Secrets and 'wings of night'. But Andruil was the one to wander into the Void and come back with some uncomfortable knowledge (before she got mind-whammied), so that could explain part of the mystery. And I like the idea of twin-souled Lusacan and Falon'din hanging out in the same Archdemon.

While I still see a lot of evidence for Shartan=Solas and Andrastythal, I think it's been figured out that the figure carrying the urn is in fact Harvard, and that Shartan is the guy in the background most of the time. They were only working together for a short time, apparently. Shartan officially joined at the Battle of Valerian Plains, one year before Andraste's betrayal. His rebellion had started nine years earlier, coinciding with the Exalted March. So if it was Solas and Mythal collaborating, it was well-played.

Draconis=Tevinter interpretation of Fen'harel. The Kirkwall heraldry did start as a symbol of rebellion and freedom amongst the slaves, many of whom were elven, back in the Emerius days. And a lot of elven graves seem to have it emblazoned on them, and Solas has a scroll stamped with it in his room. But isn't Fenrir also a constellation based off of Fen'harel? There could be multiple, Solas is cool enough for it, but I'm curious as to how this fits in.

My one problem with Mythal being Dumat is that it involves her aiding the Tevinter Imperium, which doesn't quite add up for me. Assuming it wasn't someone faking a phone call, so to speak. Or it was part of a long plan.

I can see Dirthamen or Falon'din being the betrayer, using the Neromenian Dreamers as minions, much like Dirthie tried with the Alamarri in the days of Tyrdda. 

We discussed the emerald waters and the abyss a while back, but you've brought more to the table.  It's one of my favorite weird lore things to obsess over. 

As for Dirthamen being dead, well, there is that statue of him with a blade through his back gushing blood in the Fade near the end with Flemethyal.

I'm not sure what to make of Elgie being Zazikel. But none of the other Creators seem to fit.

I like the idea made earlier of the Old Gods actually being the High Priests of each of the Creators, and they're doing their schtick to bust free and rescue their gods. But of course, this doesn't explain the Old God Souls, and Flemeth's interest in preserving the Old God soul makes me think they were either frenemies or the Creators themselves. I like Urthemiel as June, to be honest. The Architect's title suggests he was the High Priest of June, and I associate June's beauty more with architectural grace and giant spikes than a pretty halla-woman. (Then again, as we all know, the Architect is the prettiest of them all...) But my theory of Ghilan'nain as Andoral (alchemical horrors=slaves is tenuous) doesn't feel strong as I'd like, and it's a good connection. Still letting all of Aravasia's contributions percolate.  

I can see things getting complicated with there being some crossovers between all of the god pantheons.  June being a dwarf Titan, Mythal and Fen'harel moonlighting in Ferelden as the Lady of the Skies and Imhar, Elgar'nan in Par Vollen with primitive humans, Ghilan'nain really struggling to explain organized religion to halla...