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[Vorathrad]

So, to lighten things up with discussion of Solas being a dirty liar going on, what are some little headcanons you all have about him? Because I know we all spend way too much time thinking about him. 

I headcanonned early in the romance a little argument they had regarding modern elves; he's going on a rant bashing the Dalish, and Gwynn is very silent until she bursts out that perhaps he is forgetting that part of the people he so despises are her parents, her siblings, her best friend, the people she grew up around. Her only family. Then she storms off the rotunda to her quarters, leaving Solas with a puzzled and ashamed expression. A bit later he seeks her in her room, apologizing and explaining that in getting the bigger picture he often forgets he is talking about individuals with life and feelings of their own.

I like to think, keeping in mind the balcony scene, that my Lavellan made Solas a bit more aware of the Dalish as individuals with different values and perspectives. It's much easier to dismiss a group as a whole than faces whose personal stories you know. And that perhaps it's one of the reasons he left her and distanced himself, because that knew perspective could take him away from his path or at least make it much more difficult to follow. So I made up this little scene and accepted it as headcanon ^^

[RedMagister]

I actually think that's one thing they did put a lot of thought into. But I am actually legit obsessed with the artwork, so I may be bias.

 me too.

 

I don't really give much for theories (especially the sera one, about her being more special) but the art is something DA really gets into. Also, art interpretation by people has been pretty good pre-game. At least i think so.

[DarthEmpress]

I think we might be putting too much stock into those tarot cards. I think they were just an artistic way to represent something important about the characters. They might have little hints at something more in them but I doubt they carry any heavy hints at the trajectory of the game.

 

It'd be nice if fluffy white wolf tarot card meant something good, though!

 

I probably wouldn't think too much about the cards if Solas' romance card still switched to his non-romanced one (scary big black wolf) at the end... but the fact that his romanced card is so serene and STILL stays that way, even at the end, feels like it means something to me.  I dunno :3

 

[Sister Squish]

The next one is Draconis, the 'unkown' eighth God. And also Solas centered for you ladies. 

Spoiler

(I just copied and pasted this one, so the post is a bit out of context, but you get the general idea.)

 

More incoming, I loaded up my game and I think I found something(!!!) 

 

So, here I am, going back to the Draconis astrarium, and I finish with a pretty little symbol:

Spoiler

And I thought, hey, I know that symbol! I am in the midst of my current DA2 playthrough, and that symbol is painted on every little nook and cranny of Kirkwall:

Spoiler

Spoiler

So, I scour the wiki in a quest of answers. And I stumble upon this jewel in the entry for Kirkwall's symbol:

 

"This stylized knot work representation of a dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion etched into countless walls during the time when Kirkwall was a center for the Tevinter slave trade. It was an image that catalyzed the slaves who overthrew the ruling magisters, and while the symbol has changed, its meaning has not: Kirkwall is a city unto itself, beholden to no one."

 

A dragon evolved from a symbol of rebellion. And the codex entry for Fen'Harel as the God of Rebellion in Mythal's Temple:

http://dragonage.wik...:_The_Rebel_God

 

Well, I can guess why he was struck from the records, the magisters and other gods must have hated him. 

That red symbol is painted over the standard Kirkwall symbol only in the lower parts of the city (Lowtown and Darktown.) Also, recall that Kirkwall had a slave rebellion before it officially became Kirkwall. I can just imagine the implications if slaves rose up in Fen'Harel's name, whether he was leading them or not. I believe that would be enough for them to strike him from record. Either way, I believe this may be more slight evidence towards the Old Gods being the Pantheon, and which God Draconis is. 

 

So, thoughts? Is it true? Am I mad crafting theorist going off of nothing? 

 

I love thisssss!

(Would just like to clarify that if I use the terms "consensus" and "most people", it comes from being following this thread and not much more  No doubt there will always be a line of people ready to argue it! And that is good, discussion and alternative viewpoints are always encouraged!) 

 

Fen'Harel, Symbols of Rebellion and Draconis, the possible eighth Tevinter Old God

I get excited by this subject! I seem to be one of very few who have a wish for Fen'Harel/Dread Wolf of the Elven Pantheon to be an allegorical representation of the Arlathan rebellion, misinterpreted by the Dalish as another God. Shhh it isn't because I wish for Solas to be just a normal guy, nope ;-; 

But I did not think to connect it to Draconis too. Awesome! It is entirely possible Draconis was deliberately left out of being mentioned in the Tevinter Old God roster! The meaning of "God of Rebellion" changing to "traitor to one's kin" can certainly apply to a God rebelling against his own kind, and therefore falling out of favour. 

 

<snip>

Re: Draconis

Spoiler

Holy **** there was an unknown eighth Old God? And going by what you said, it does make sense if this is Fen'Harel. I mean, you even see that dragon blood symbol in his rotunda (scroll in a bucket atop the scaffolding), and since he's a symbol of rebellion, then of course it would also make sense that he was stricken from the record.

 

There's another likely suspect though. Whoever's being referred to here:

http://dragonage.wik...t_Elven_Writing

 

Some have theorized this is Fen'Harel as well, especially because of those many shifting eyes at the end. So this can also support your theory. Or there might be another dude who stole the form of gods (probably dragon form). Anyway, this Draconis constellation is really interesting. I wonder what this means for the Blights if Archdemons really are the Old Gods.

 

As @Flabbadance mentions, the trial may or may not be related, and may or may not refer to Fen'Harel, also. If they are all linked, the symbol of the wolf becomes mixed with the symbol of the dragon as a rebel "taking on a form reserved for the Gods". Which fits the narrative neatly together.

If not, Draconis remains a dragon symbol and constellation, symbolising rebellion! 

Or, like you say @Aravasia, the slave rebellions using the symbol could have been purely coincidental, adopting the idea/invoking the spirit of the Arlathan slave rebellions and not involved Fen'Harel-the-person at all... but I think the Enigma of Kirkwall codex  suggests that whenever **** in Kirkwall goes down - probably something beyond the Veil involved. 

 

And all of this makes me wonder if Draconis is actually madrar's possible third Draconic being, source of the Song of Freedom/Chaos, influencing Thedas throughout the ages just as Mythal and "The Sun" do.

[Illyria]

Neither do I. I think that's what his romanced card tells us... Did I read somewhere that you can get that card even if you don't romance him but are on friendly terms??? Because that would proves the point even more, it is what happens if he can achieve some sort of balance within the present world-state...

 

No, that card is his romanced one.  Everyone else gets the Tower.

[Illyria]

 

Spoiler

 

 

Sorry it is taking me so long to catch up! These are amazing Aravasia, good job putting them together! [Solas Approves] 

I may address these individually, as there is a frustrating limit to the amount of quotes in a post! 

 

Mythal as Dumat

  Consensus of this thread, I believe, is: agreement for the timing of Dumat's death and Andraste's birth as very suspicious. We generally believe this is being hinted at through the player being introduced to the idea of a corrupted Old God being "cleansed" through being born into an "innocent" body in the form of DA:O's "dark ritual". 

  There are different interpretations regarding Dumat's identity, however. Most (not all) subscribe to the idea that Tevinter Old Gods are Elven Pantheon members. 

  It is true that Mythal and Andraste share a penchant for birthing females instead of males. DA often highlights the importance of bloodlines, and "blood" as the manifestation of "will" in general. One interpretation is that Andraste is one of many descendants of Mythal, and this gives her a unique connection to Mythal and her abilities (as seen in Morrigan). 

  It is possible that Mythal was Dumat, and reborn as Andraste. However, it is equally possible to believe that Mythal, even as Dumat, would not have motivation to convince Corypheus to act as he did. Andraste, like Corypheus, heard whispers (believing it to be the Maker) but the ambitions of the two seem to clash. 

  madrar theorises that Dumat is instead Falon'Din. 

 

 

*slowly puts up hand*

 

I don't believe in any of these theories.
 

[Sister Squish]

While I still see a lot of evidence for Shartan=Solas and Andrastythal, I think it's been figured out that the figure carrying the urn is in fact Harvard, and that Shartan is the guy in the background most of the time. They were only working together for a short time, apparently. Shartan officially joined at the Battle of Valerian Plains, one year before Andraste's betrayal. His rebellion had started nine years earlier, coinciding with the Exalted March. So if it was Solas and Mythal collaborating, it was well-played.

Draconis=Tevinter interpretation of Fen'harel. The Kirkwall heraldry did start as a symbol of rebellion and freedom amongst the slaves, many of whom were elven, back in the Emerius 

 

Of course it is! *edits hastily* 

 

*slowly puts up hand*

 

I don't believe in any of these theories.

 

Please feel free to counter them with alternatives, I would be very interested! 

[Pinax]

Theory guys, I really liked the idea of Andraste being OGB and... I had a bold thought, not sure if this was not discussed hundred times already, but... what if Dumat is the Maker? And the voice of the Maker she hears is just the Dumat's OGS in her body?

 

More thoughts on how this all fits together for me and to the elvhen pantheon under spoilers:

 

Spoiler

I had a thought on this, not being really able to accept Mythal as Dumat and I started to wonder about Dumat itself as the "god of silence". What does it exactly mean "the god of silence"? What is this silence? And this somehow brought me to the silence of the Maker who turned from his creatures. So I thought: maybe the word "silence" is actually a connection?

 

Generally the more I explore the DA lore, the more I see Dumat as messing on from the beginning. According to Cory's speech in Legacy DLC, it was Dumat who advised the magisters to strike on the Golden City. Why, what was his goal? Cory says when the magisters arrive to Golden City, it's already black and tainted and the throne of the god is empty.

 

Then again I thought of Cory's words that Blight is just a tool.

 

And all this did strike me out for:

 

What if Dumat is one of the Forgotten Ones, sealed somewhere underground by Fen'Harel during the Great Betrayal, trying to eradicate all the other gods (using the Blight as a tool to get them corrupted and then exterminated by Grey Wardens) and reclaim ultimate god's power for his own only...? This is why he plots the magisters to go into the Black City to spread the Blight in Thedas...?

 

Grey areas of this theory are:

1) if Dumat is plotting this way and he's the first Old God to be corrupted and killed - what's the point?

2) If he's the Maker and Andraste is an OGB carrying his soul, how she can become one?

 

However! I came up to a hypothesis which already appeared in this thread many times.

 

Hypothesis 1: What if Dumat is actually a 2 OGS creature?

 

One OGS gets cleansed by the Fade after his death, while the 2nd soul happily jumps into Andraste and whispers her about the good Maker?

 

You see where it leads us: who we know to be the twin souls, "inseparable from birth"? Falon'Din and Dirthamen!

 

However I still think 1 OGS must have been gone with the death of Dumat. Here comes...

 

Hypothesis 2: it was all Falon'Din and Dirthamen plan all along!

 

Quote from http://dragonage.wik...ad.2C_the_Guide

 

Falon'Din is the elven God of Death and Fortune and guides the dead to the Beyond. He and his twin brother, Dirthamen, are the eldest children of Elgar'nan the All-Father and Mythal the Protector and were inseparable from birth. Their first separation came when Falon'Din found an old and sickly deer in the forest and gathered her up into his arms and carried her to her rest beyond the Veil, where Dirthamen could not follow.

 

So: Dirthamen cannot follow beyond the Veil, but Falon'Din seems to be capable to come back and over, according to the legends, guiding the Dead.

What if Falon'Din used his unique connection with the Fade to remain there, waiting for Dirthamen, until the Blight eradicates all the other Old Gods?

 

In the meantime, Dirthamen guides Andraste to form a new religion of the Maker which slowly dominates among Thedas and results in creation of the Chantry whose main goal is power, control over mages, but also a potential resource for a mighty sacrifice (Justinia) for a big come back ritual?

 

Does all this fit very well in the theories of:

- Falon'Din and Dirthamen as both being betrayers of Mythal (another "god's cleanse"?)

- Felassan being potentially killed by Falon'Din, waiting in the Fade for Dirthamen

- Solas, bantered by Cole, shutting the elvhen gods to save them and being so angry on Grey Wardens planning to eradicate the Old Gods before the new blight comes?

- Solas being so reluctant to the Chantry?

- the Chantry shaping new version of the historical "truth"

...or am I just too sleepy to spot any flaws?

 

The question which still remains is: where is OGS of Dirthamen now? I wouldn't believe it's being passed by into Andraste's descendants, rather to be reclaimed by Falon'Din (just like Flemeth took the OGS from Kieran) and then...? I don't know, didn't come with any bright idea yet.

 

I also tried to sort out some timeline of the god's succession and as for now I came with a draft of something like this below. Sorry for the dreadful colors, but maybe the overall table (I like tables!) will help in some analysis/theory crafting?

Spoiler

 

Edited the quote section, as it got pasted in a really nasty way for some reason.

Modifié par Pinax, 02 février 2015 - 01:22 .

[Colonelkillabee]

When you ask if Dumat is the Maker, do you mean literally, or do you mean that the voices Andraste heard were from Dumat? If you mean the latter, then I personally say yes. The former, then I'd say we're screwed because the Maker got his ass handed to him and was a complete pushover.

[jellobell]

This may sound stupid, but what actually is the void?

 

Also did Caridin make his Anvil from it in the same way Andruil made her armour?

The Void is very mysterious, but here's an interesting tidbit from the World of Thedas book (just picked mine up yesterday).

 

The Chant on the Void

All that the Maker has wrought is in His hand
Beloved and precious to Him.
Where the Maker has turned His face away,
Is a Void in all things;
In the world, in the Fade,
In the hearts and minds of men.

 

Passing out of the world, in that Void shall they wander;
O unrepentant, faithless, treacherous,
They who are judged and found wanting
Shall know forever the loss of the Maker's love.
Only Our Lady shall weep for them.

 

-Threnodies 12:5

 

Make of that what you will, tinfoil hatters.

 

So, to lighten things up with discussion of Solas being a dirty liar going on, what are some little headcanons you all have about him? Because I know we all spend way too much time thinking about him.  

Hahaha. I don't think I've written down too many headcanons for Solas, actually. Let's see...

 

I wish we'd gotten to talk to him about his painting. One of the things that instantly endeared me to Solas was entering his room for the first time, seeing that gorgeous fresco on the walls, and then finding out that it was a sort of record of the Inquisition's progress. It felt like he was, in his own way, showing how much he cared for the Inquisition. My favourite is the Winter Palace panel if Celene isn't assassinated. I just imagine Solas returning to Skyhold, still flush with excitement over what happened at Halamshiral, and immediately going to his room and starting a painting to record what a great time he had. A few hours later Dorian wanders in and is dumbstruck at how Solas has transformed the entire wall in so little time. Solas doesn't even hear him come in because he's standing at the top of the scaffolding putting the finishing touches on Celene's dress.

 

I also seem to recall Solas saying something to Blackwall about watching him with the Inquisition recruits in the training yard, which makes me wonder if Solas just wanders around observing all of the members in the Inquisition. Maybe he goes to the tavern and sits in a dark corner, smiling into his flagon as Bull tells the Chargers outrageous stories about what the Inquisitor got up to the last time they went on a mission ("I'm tellin' you guys, this dragon was bigger than the barn!"). Or perhaps he wanders up to the tower to see how the mages are handling their newfound freedom, observing with pleasure how some of the more reserved ones are beginning to come out of their shells.

 

I imagine that Solas has a very erratic sleep schedule. Sometimes he's up at the crack of dawn. Other times he sleeps in past noon. On the days when he rises early, he goes to Skyhold's garden to sit and meditate. He often chats with Elan when she comes to tend to the plants, asking her about her duties and how the herbs are being used by the Inquisition. He also shows her a few interesting properties of many common herbs that she'd never heard of before. When asked where he learned this, he says that he saw it in the Fade.

 

Solas usually keeps to himself, but whenever Blackwall sees him wandering around he tries to rope him into playing a few hands of Diamondback or Wicked Grace with him, even though he seldom wins. Solas often obliges him, or gets out of it by telling Blackwall a story instead.

 

Solas also spends a lot of time in the Inquisition library, looking through its collection of tomes. He doesn't only read books of eldritch lore, but also quite a few popular novels. He's gone through everything in the library that Varric's written, and often questions the dwarf (much to Varric's surprise) about the plots. Cass successfully managed to get him to read the first volume of Swords and Shields (along with Dorian). He politely declined when she offered to lend him the others.

 

ToP, Solas reacting to my wall of text. 

 

 

http://artminion.tum...-very-tired-and

[Colonelkillabee]

Though the maker being partly based off the God of silence, that does make sense.

[Caddius]

Though the maker being partly based off the God of silence, that does make sense.

He's Silent because he wants to appreciate all the singing his worshipers are doing for him.

[Pinax]

When you ask if Dumat is the Maker, do you mean literally, or do you mean that the voices Andraste heard were from Dumat? If you mean the latter, then I personally say yes. The former, then I'd say we're screwed because the Maker got his ass handed to him and was a complete pushover.

I made a TLTR post which actually may be summarized as:

dragon Dumat = Falon'Din + Dirthammen OG souls => 1 of their souls is Maker

[Illyria]

 

Please feel free to counter them with alternatives, I would be very interested! 

 

I don't really have any counter theories, but I guess I'm not a fan of 'everything is elves'.  Old Gods, Andraste, whatever it was that created the Qunari... according to most of the theories I see around here everything was elves or Solas on his own (if it does turn out to be 'everything was elves' then I stand corrected).

 

At the moment the one thing I am sure of (as much as I can be sure of anything since everything is theories at the moment) is that Solas is Fen'Harel, not possessed by Fen'Harel and that body hopping wasn't a common thing.  I think Mythal can could do it because she died and now all that's left of her is a tiny part of her spirit/soul/whatever.

[Colonelkillabee]

He's Silent because he wants to appreciate all the singing his worshipers are doing for him.

That or he's like me. When people constantly yell my name to get my attention when I'm busy.. I just ignore them and hope they go away

[Colonelkillabee]

I made a TLTR post which actually may be summarized as:

dragon Dumat = Falon'Din + Dirthammen OG souls => 1 of their souls is Maker

You mean earlier? I think I missed the tl:dr, but I read your most recent one.

 

I have no idea what to think of dumat having 2 souls. I mean, obviously it's possible with kieran, and I made comments before about the old gods having a hivemind or being one being collectively, yet still able to be separate, based on that elven text and blah blah, you've seen it already, lol.

 

Basically, it's possible, sure. There's just not more here yet for me to say more than that. At most, I can say I do think the maker's concept is connected to several things, though whether that means there is no maker, or those things simply were closer to whatever the maker is or was, I don't know.

 

There's so many connections that can be made, that all I know for sure is that all the religions and concepts obviously share a similar origin.

[Avejajed]

*slowly puts up hand*

I don't believe in any of these theories.

I don't think anyone suggested she meant every single person in this thread believed these or any theories.

And I certainly think everything could be elves because all we know we're the elves were in Thedas before anyone else. Morrigan says the elves may have secrets that would rock the very foundations of thedas.

Elven glory!

I can't be bothered to edit my stupid phones stupid autocorrect. Sorry grammar ppl.

[Patchwork]

I headcanonned early in the romance a little argument they had regarding modern elves; he's going on a rant bashing the Dalish, and Gwynn is very silent until she bursts out that perhaps he is forgetting that part of the people he so despises are her parents, her siblings, her best friend, the people she grew up around. Her only family. Then she storms off the rotunda to her quarters, leaving Solas with a puzzled and ashamed expression. A bit later he seeks her in her room, apologizing and explaining that in getting the bigger picture he often forgets he is talking about individuals with life and feelings of their own.

I like to think, keeping in mind the balcony scene, that my Lavellan made Solas a bit more aware of the Dalish as individuals with different values and perspectives. It's much easier to dismiss a group as a whole than faces whose personal stories you know. And that perhaps it's one of the reasons he left her and distanced himself, because that knew perspective could take him away from his path or at least make it much more difficult to follow. So I made up this little scene and accepted it as headcanon ^^

 

 

Okay as I can't just quote and post a reaction gif I've been trying to pin down the elven sentinels powers/abilities. In the Arbor Wilds they seem rogueish and their ability to disappear is similar to Cole's, the melee attacker's I've seen in videos use real swords rather than a spirit blade so I'm just confused what's happening there, what's the lore? 

[Pinax]

You mean earlier? I think I missed the tl:dr, but I read your most recent one.

 

I have no idea what to think of dumat having 2 souls. I mean, obviously it's possible with kieran, and I made comments before about the old gods having a hivemind or being one being collectively, yet still able to be separate, based on that elven text and blah blah, you've seen it already, lol.

 

Basically, it's possible, sure. There's just not more here yet for me to say more than that. At most, I can say I do think the maker's concept is connected to several things, though whether that means there is no maker, or those things simply were closer to whatever the maker is or was, I don't know.

 

There's so many connections that can be made, that all I know for sure is that all the religions and concepts obviously share a similar origin.

I meant this super long post, there was just one

 

I agree there are many, many connections which can be made and part of me actually sees no sense in speculating too much, while another part is dying for some answers on what the hell is really going on in DA:I, as I'm having problem with accepting it's just a game on "defeating Corypheus, the old magister who wears Prada"

 

I appreciate though I wouldn't mind see more Maker inclusive discussions here - after all he's the main deity in modern Thedas where our heroes wander. And I also believe all the religions seem to point into a similar or the same origin.

 

Anyway, time to sleep, cya tomorrow!

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't think anyone suggested she meant every single person in this thread believed these or any theories.

And I certainly think everything could be elves because all we know we're the elves were in Thedas before anyone else. Morrigan says the elves may have secrets that would rock the very foundations of thedas.

Elven glory!

I personally am also not exactly pleased with all the elven stuff seemingly making up the foundations of dragon age lore, but I didn't like finding out auroras weren't magic, that stars were just suns, or that santa couldn't possibly drag his fat ass all over the world in a year, much less one night. And if he did, pretty sure he'd get shot going over the middle east.

 

But, that's where we're at, lol. I don't like it on principle of seemingly giving one culture so much in a setting, but it's still interesting and I'm not going to ignore it.

 

Not saying anyone else is, mind you. I do know people outside this thread though downright dismiss everything just because they don't like it.

[Aetheria]

That or he's like me. When people constantly yell my name to get my attention when I'm busy.. I just ignore them and hope they go away

 

Lavellan: Why didn't you help us? We called to you, prayed to you...

 

Flemeth: Fine. You want to know why? Because a goddess can't get two minutes to herself in the bathroom with the newspaper without a bunch of elves beating down the door with their calling and praying. "Mother Mythal, the humans swiped our teddy bear! Mother Mythal, Fen'harel ate the last cookie!" Sometimes you just have to take a couple thousand years to yourself to leave the house and get a latte like an adult for once! IS THAT SO WRONG?!

 

Lavellan: ...but the humans started it...

[Avejajed]

I think, and this is the only pet theory of mine I am absolutely sure of (for now, anyway, until I get proven otherwise lol) is that there is something out there that we know nothing about.

Something old, something powerful, something way worse than blights, archdemons, old gods, darkspawn magisters...worse than all of it.

And it's coming.

[Colonelkillabee]

Lavellan: Why didn't you help us? We called to you, prayed to you...

 

Flemeth: Fine. You want to know why? Because a goddess can't get two minutes to herself in the bathroom with the newspaper without a bunch of elves beating down the door with their calling and praying. "Mother Mythal, the humans swiped our teddy bear! Mother Mythal, Fen'harel ate the last cookie!" Sometimes you just have to take a couple thousand years to yourself to leave the house and get a latte like an adult for once! IS THAT SO WRONG?!

 

Lavellan: ...but the humans started it...

LOL Morgan Freeman, I think he approves

 

Dark Ages.

[Colonelkillabee]

I think, and this is the only pet theory of mine I am absolutely sure of (for now, anyway, until I get proven otherwise lol) is that there is something out there that we know nothing about.

Something old, something powerful, something way worse than blights, archdemons, old gods, darkspawn magisters...worse than all of it.

And it's coming.

AZATHOTH, I AM READY TO ACCEPT YOU!

[Avejajed]

I personally am also not exactly pleased with all the elven stuff seemingly making up the foundations of dragon age lore, but I didn't like finding out auroras weren't magic, that stars were just suns, or that santa couldn't possibly drag his fat ass all over the world in a year, much less one night. And if he did, pretty sure he'd get shot going over the middle east.

But, that's where we're at, lol. I don't like it on principle of seemingly giving one culture so much in a setting, but it's still interesting and I'm not going to ignore it.

Not saying anyone else is, mind you. I do know people outside this thread though downright dismiss everything just because they don't like it.

Haha well I'm not convinced either that it's all All elvish all the time. I was just trying to point out nobody is forcing theories down anyones throat.

We just throw them out there and people and pick and choose what they like or do not.