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[Meer]

That's hard to deny though considering how much the devs love her and how idealistic her ending is. At first glance it indeed seems like she's the best choice.

 

Until someone assassinates her the minute her little inclusion project goes bad.

 

Cass before then doesn't think much of Lels being Divine. I don't know that I can say Cass is in fact the best divine, only that she seems best suited for it prior to the ending.

This thought also occurred to me when considering Vivienne as Divine, ideologies aside. The main problem that faces each Divine candidate is what will happen after they're gone? For instance, should Vivienne become Divine she uses a hardcore approach that works for her; but will her successor be able to handle the political situation and atmosphere she's put into place? The same goes for Leliana and Cassandra. It's a consideration that has plagued power structures since they came to be (from empires to churches to companies, you name it), and why monarchies tended to be so awful in so many ways; one queen may be fantastic at her job, but the heir she leaves behind, not so much....

More on topic, I believe this is a consideration Solas has had to make on many occasions. Not specifically the question of Divine, but rather the way power structures can weaken and corrupt over time.

[Caddius]

This thought also occurred to me when considering Vivienne as Divine, ideologies aside. The main problem that faces each Divine candidate is what will happen after they're gone? For instance, should Vivienne become Divine she uses a hardcore approach that works for her; but will her successor be able to handle the political situation and atmosphere she's put into place? The same goes for Leliana and Cassandra. It's a consideration that has plagued power structures since they came to be (from empires to churches to companies, you name it), and why monarchies tended to be so awful in so many ways; one queen may be fantastic at her job, but the heir she leaves behind, not so much....

More on topic, I believe this is a consideration Solas has had to make on many occasions. Not specifically the question of Divine, but rather the way power structures can weaken and corrupt over time.

I believe this even ties in with Bull's argument in favor of the Qun after Halamshiral. If the whole Triumvirate was wiped out, the Qun would go on unchanged. Meanwhile, the modern kingdoms of Thedas have had their extreme ups and extreme downs, relying upon the roll of the dice when it comes to heirs, or force of arms when it comes to usurpers who establish a dynasty and start the whole process all over again. It probably gets under Solas's skin to see a (relatively) stable government and philosophy that just so happens to be the antithesis of his own morality. Even the rebels fit into the system.

[Sable Rhapsody]

More on topic, I believe this is a consideration Solas has had to make on many occasions. Not specifically the question of Divine, but rather the way power structures can weaken and corrupt over time.

 

He brings it up with the Inquisitor too if quizzy picks the "power of friendship" dialogue option when he asks about what they'll do with the power of the Well.  It does raise an interesting problem for the Inquisitor going forward.  What becomes of the Inquisition?  Obviously it has to stick around for a least a while to help with reconstruction and restabilizing southern Thedas, but after that?  Does it become part of the Chantry?  How does the title of Inquisitor pass on, if the Inquisition stays independent?  It's not like there are other candidates wandering around with Anchors in their hands.

 

I don't really have good answers for any of those questions, and neither does quzzy, it seems.  Though s/he can be forgiven for not thinking about the future as much as Solas does, what with trying to keep the world from ending.

[TanisLave]

I agree.  You just are kind of like this rando that pops up 'oh you guys seem so sweet. get back together!' with no real explanation as to why they actually were apart in the first place.  That quest...too much information was in TME  that we really should have had in game.

 

EDIT:
 

 

Ok wait - they actually do deserve each - other because both are gross, horrible people.  So agreed.

 

Hey! I really liked Briala in the game, but I never got the chance to read TME as of yet. What did Briala do that is so bad? 

[Colonelkillabee]

This thought also occurred to me when considering Vivienne as Divine, ideologies aside. The main problem that faces each Divine candidate is what will happen after they're gone? For instance, should Vivienne become Divine she uses a hardcore approach that works for her; but will her successor be able to handle the political situation and atmosphere she's put into place? The same goes for Leliana and Cassandra. It's a consideration that has plagued power structures since they came to be (from empires to churches to companies, you name it), and why monarchies tended to be so awful in so many ways; one queen may be fantastic at her job, but the heir she leaves behind, not so much....

More on topic, I believe this is a consideration Solas has had to make on many occasions. Not specifically the question of Divine, but rather the way power structures can weaken and corrupt over time.

 

 

I think that the writing's on the wall personally for white thedas. The divines all seem to be a temporary fix, a band aid for temporary stability while the chantry figures out what to do with itself and thedas.

 

Vivienne has to fight a war just for people to accept her, Cassandra's reforms aren't even specific to us but she still faces conflict only buried with our help IF she liked you.

 

Then Lels either goes dark side and acts like a try hard badass to get her way or mary sues herself into everyone's heart... which either way, neither of these approaches will sustain her rule when people start complaining about some not so benevolent mages somewhere abusing their freedom. One mage does it, then suddenly all the mages did it, and then we're back to square one.

 

All of them are going to be short lived if you ask me.

[dragondreamer]

I liked Briala more in the book, but you don't get as much perspective on her in-game.  The game makes it look like she's just a jilted lover looking for revenge, but that isn't her angle at all.  Briala's little grudge against the Dalish based on her experience with a single clan in the book was kinda irritating while playing a Lavellan though, pff.

[BoscoBread]

Hey! I really liked Briala in the game, but I never got the chance to read TME as of yet. What did Briala do that is so bad? 

She used her people to implicate Gaspard.  She would tell unarmed messengers - kitchen staff- to go to a spot for "pickup" knowing they would be killed instead of actually helping.  She's gross.   She's more sympathetic in the book but I read that after I played the game and I still find her kind of blech.

 

I know that's not a popular opinion around here, but I don't like her.  Soo...*shrug*. 

[Avejajed]

I let Gaspard rule. Only one in the book besides Michel and Felassan I liked. Kill the rest, I say.

[Colonelkillabee]

I let Gaspard rule. Only one in the book besides Michel and Felassan I liked. Kill the rest, I say.

Amen, lol.

[TanisLave]

She used her people to implicate Gaspard.  She would tell unarmed messengers - kitchen staff- to go to a spot for "pickup" knowing they would be killed instead of actually helping.  She's gross.   She's more sympathetic in the book but I read that after I played the game and I still find her kind of blech.

 

I know that's not a popular opinion around here, but I don't like her.  Soo...*shrug*. 

 

No, I mean.. I remember the whole quest in-game with the messenger and the whole.. Implication thing, that is a **** move on her part. But.. Did she do something like that in the books? because It seems stupid-villain-tropey to send useful messengers to drop points.. to just be killed, for no apparent reason?

 

I just got the gist of her banging Celene for political power, even though Celene wiped out a Alienage. 

 

Edit top of page. - http://drathe.tumblr...iggin-fits-that

Spoiler

  

[Colonelkillabee]

Amen, lol.

 

Though **** Michel.

[MoonDrummer]

Though **** Michel.

And felassan.

[Moirin]

Michel and Felassan were the only characters in the book I liked. I...tolerate Briala and Celene and respect Gaspard but don't like him. I'll also never let him rule without someone pulling his strings, since I love Fereldan too much and he's a bit too eager to start something against them.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I liked Briala more in the book, but you don't get as much perspective on her in-game.  The game makes it look like she's just a jilted lover looking for revenge, but that isn't her angle at all.  Briala's little grudge against the Dalish based on her experience with a single clan in the book was kinda irritating while playing a Lavellan though, pff.

 

Well, the jilted lover thing is part of her angle, but it's not her primary motivation.  She genuinely loved Celene, thought she would be the best for Orlais, and had that faith shattered over the course of TME.  I felt terrible for her in TME, and I rather liked her too.  She was flawed but still rather sympathetic, even if I didn't agree with all the decisions she made (trying to prolong the destructive civil war for starters).  The Briala we met in DA:I seemed like she'd let ambition cloud her focus and rob her of her original purpose: improving the day-to-day lives of the elves of Orlais.

 

As for her grudge against the Dalish, at that point I just sort of rolled my eyes and said, "YAWN, look at this, another elf who hates the Dalish.  So last year." 

[dragondreamer]

She used her people to implicate Gaspard.  She would tell unarmed messengers - kitchen staff- to go to a spot for "pickup" knowing they would be killed instead of actually helping.  She's gross.   She's more sympathetic in the book but I read that after I played the game and I still find her kind of blech.

 

I know that's not a popular opinion around here, but I don't like her.  Soo...*shrug*. 

 

She sacrificed the leader of the Halamshiral rebellion in the book in a similar way.  She thought that would be enough, then Celene went and burned the city to punish the elves. (Halamshiral doesn't really have an alienage because it's an elven majority city.)  I find I can't really dislike either of them to tell the truth, because they mean well and are struggling to survive in an unforgiving political landscape.  I can find admirable and awful things in all involved.  But yeah, there's a LOT of cringing.  No one in the Game has clean hands.

[BoscoBread]

No, I mean.. I remember the whole quest in-game with the messenger and the whole.. Implication thing, that is a **** move on her part. But.. Did she do something like that in the books? because It seems stupid-villain-tropey to send useful messengers to drop points.. to just be killed, for no apparent reason?

 

I just got the gist of her banging Celene for political power, even though Celene wiped out a Alienage. 

 That's what I found gross. She knew they were going to die.  They trusted her because they believed in her cause.  She abused that trust.   I was all about making her the puppet master until I found that out.  After that I just wanted to set the whole palace on fire.

[MoonDrummer]

Well, the jilted lover thing is part of her angle, but it's not her primary motivation.  She genuinely loved Celene, thought she would be the best for Orlais, and had that faith shattered over the course of TME.  I felt terrible for her in TME, and I rather liked her too.  She was flawed but still rather sympathetic, even if I didn't agree with all the decisions she made (trying to prolong the destructive civil war for starters).  The Briala we met in DA:I seemed like she'd let ambition cloud her focus and rob her of her original purpose: improving the day-to-day lives of the elves of Orlais.

 

As for her grudge against the Dalish, at that point I just sort of rolled my eyes and said, "YAWN, look at this, another elf who hates the Dalish.  So last year." 

Considering what happened to said clan, I would say she has more than gotten even with the Dalish for that one time they called her flat-ear. Lol

[jellobell]

I just got the gist of her banging Celene for political power, even though Celene wiped out a Alienage.

Well Celene and Briala have known each other for their entire lives, and were friends and confidantes before they were lovers, so Briala wasn't with her just for political influence.

 

She was also effectively Celene's spymaster for a while there.

[BoscoBread]

So it appears we can all agree everyone from that book and Orlais is either somewhat or totally garbage? Yes? 

[dragondreamer]

Well, the jilted lover thing is part of her angle, but it's not her primary motivation.  She genuinely loved Celene, thought she would be the best for Orlais, and had that faith shattered over the course of TME.  I felt terrible for her in TME, and I rather liked her too.  She was flawed but still rather sympathetic, even if I didn't agree with all the decisions she made (trying to prolong the destructive civil war for starters).  The Briala we met in DA:I seemed like she'd let ambition cloud her focus and rob her of her original purpose: improving the day-to-day lives of the elves of Orlais.

 

As for her grudge against the Dalish, at that point I just sort of rolled my eyes and said, "YAWN, look at this, another elf who hates the Dalish.  So last year." 

 

I don't think her motivation changed, helping the elves of Orlais was still her main objective.  Her means of going about that had simply become much more ambitious.  Her faith in Celene and the Dalish as possible saviors was broken, and now she only believes in herself.  She knows she has leverage, and she just took it as far as she could.  Well, potentially.  In my canon PT, Celene was saved from assassination, Gaspard was executed, and Briala was pardoned...  But according to the epilogue, Briala is still operating her underground and it might not be a good thing for Celene in the future.  Considering that Celene eventually dropped support for the Inquisition, I imagine my Lavellan might just sit back with some popcorn and watch what Briala does next.

[Colonelkillabee]

So it appears we can all agree everyone from that book and Orlais is either somewhat or totally garbage? Yes? 

Yep. **** 'em. **** 'em all.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Yep. **** 'em. **** 'em all.

 

I liked the Dowager at Halamshiral.  She seemed like a cool old lady.  And...that one guy who came with me to Therinfall!  I feel bad thinking ill of him since he took a dagger to the face rather gamely in my PT.

[Meer]

So it appears we can all agree everyone from that book and Orlais is either somewhat or totally garbage? Yes? 

 

Yep. **** 'em. **** 'em all.

*Laughs.* Somewhere in Thedas or the Fade, Loghain is approving greatly.

[TanisLave]

Well Celene and Briala have known each other for their entire lives, and were friends and confidantes before they were lovers, so Briala wasn't with her just for political influence.

 

She was also effectively Celene's spymaster for a while there.

 

Oh? Man, Their relationship came off.. sort of weird in DA:I. The only information you get is the whole alienage-thing from the Elf lady. 

[Colonelkillabee]

*Laughs.* Somewhere in Thedas or the Fade, Loghain is approving greatly.

He's the one that taught me my hate for Orlesians:

 

Spoiler

What’s on my mind? Dead Orlesians, no I’m not teasin,

even now I’m searching for a reason to end their breathin,

seathin with anger, desire for treason, I’m leavin and as I return,

I’m tearing their walls down, yes Val Royeaux forever burns,

don’t care if Chevalier… are there… I’m Inquisition,

on a mission, thinking I’ll fail is not but a superstition,

I’ll not give an intermission, I’ll have them wishin that lynchin was the worst thing that I’m dishin, have the whole Empire bitchin.

Sick and tired of Empires, they’re all the ****** same,

except this one chokes on frilly cupcakes and plays their silly games,

well guess what, motherfuckers, guarantee I play it better,

Orlesians, the world’s TRUE demons, and they’ll disappear forever.

Because I am the Herald, thwarting evil’s what I do, if you’re Orlesian, best be believin that I’m ****** killing you.