153429 réponses à ce sujet

[nikki-tikki]

If you want my full thoughts on the matter, you can read them here:

 

http://colonelkillab...oak-bible-index

 

I was gunna argue this but then i saw "RACIST"

 

 

...yeah they are. ^{Still a milkdrinker though...}

[Colonelkillabee]

My only qualms with siding with the Stormcloaks is the blatant racism, racial superiority, and xenophobia. Also, religious-fueled terrorism. Still choose them every other go because aspects of their cause are incredibly just, but dang is it hard to do so as anything other than a Nord.

They're more xenophobic than anything else. They have racists, and so on, but most of that is mistaken nationalism. It doesn't really matter though, I'd still side with them if they were all actually racist, rather than them being mostly xenophobic due to the history of tamriel and nationalistic in defense of their way of life dying.

 

Redguards, orcs, even dunmer have a good reason to side with them as well. For one, the majority of nords show acceptance to those who prove their worth and are willing to fight, as galmar shows. The redguards were abandoned by the empire when they wouldn't give in to thalmor demands after the war, orcs while traditionally on good terms with the empire for getting sucked up to for their fighting prowess still get the short end of the stick, since the empire has always allowed bretons and redguards to tagteam Orsinium into oblivion, and the Dunmer according to the new dlc were abandoned and left for dead during the oblivion crisis, as were all the provinces...

 

I guarantee the racism angle is blown out of proportion, though yes it is there. Mostly from people you see not actually stormcloaks.

[CapricornSun]

Thank god, I was wondering if the milkdrinkers would pop up and start proclaiming love for the empire or not, lol.

Glad you know better

Another milkdrinker here.

In truth, I nearly sided with the Stormcloaks. Nearly. Then I arrived at Windhelm, witnessed all the racism, then sided with the Imperials. xD (I played a bosmer.)

[Colonelkillabee]

Another milkdrinker here.

In truth, I nearly sided with the Stormcloaks. Nearly. Then I arrived at Windhelm, witnessed all the racism, then sided with the Imperials. xD (I played a bosmer.)

 

I was gunna argue this but then i saw "RACIST"
 
...yeah they are. ^{Still a milkdrinker though...}

Like I said, read the document They are not racist, even if yes, they have racists among them. The stormcloak movement itself is not about racism. The imperialistic empire is more racist than anyone. They're just not obvious about it. Usually.

[Maria13]

Mine turned to mush reading it because it's true, also I'm at work...alone, with nothing to do, that helps...

I'm not one for Gideon Emery's voice though, does nothing for me. Not sure what it is with Solas but I think Ave nails it. It's otherworldly, the rhythm helps too...

 

Rhythm, that's the Welsh entonation for you, very distinct, Antony Hopkins has it too...

[OhDaniGirl28]

Oh Bryn...

I'm so happy I'm not the only one who loves him.

Do any of the mods for marrying him do him justice?

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't understand why windhelm was such a pivotal moment for people who sided with the imperials, when the very first thing you see when the game even starts is men being killed and executed for the crime of happening to be around stormcloaks, with no proof they are... no questioning, nothing, and they even have assigned torturers like the dominion, which we saw very early as well. Or when you walk into Solitude and you see the same thing, and his only crime was letting a man walk out of a gate like everyone else did, because they like all the others knew what Ulfric did, duel the king, was not murder, even if the empire deemed it so for killing a monarch. They used a man as a scapegoat to push all the blame on him so they all wouldn't feel as stupid... and these injustices are somehow far less than something that exists everywhere in TES? Racism?

 

Don't play Morrowind, lol.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Siha]

http://colonelkillab...oak-bible-index

 

I suggest all milkdrinkers give this a read

 

I totally want to know this. I totally don't want to read this.

Would you please summarize very briefly why a wood elf should support the Stormcloaks? I always expected them to stab me in the back any minute just because I wasn't a Nord. And that was pretty much where I drew the line. Revolutionary posture only takes you so far.

[nikki-tikki]

I don't understand why windhelm was such a pivotal moment for people who sided with the imperials, when the very first thing you see when the game even starts is men being killed and executed for the crime of happening to be around stormcloaks, with no proof they are... no questioning, nothing, and they even have assigned torturers like the dominion, which we saw very early as well. Or when you walk into Solitude and you see the same thing, and his only crime was letting a man walk out of a gate like everyone else did, because they like all the others knew what Ulfric did, duel the king, was not murder, even if the empire deemed it so for killing a monarch. They used a man as a scapegoat to push all the blame on him so they all wouldn't feel as stupid... and these injustices are somehow far less than something that exists everywhere in TES? Racism?

 

Don't play Morrowind, lol.

 

I play usually as an elf or an imperial. So that rules out the Stormcloaks since they hate both. I tried to on my nord playthrough but when I went to talk to Ulfric he treated me like **** and I couldn't justify working for him. Not that Tulius treats you much better, but I feel like the Empire has the majority of Tamriel in mind, not just Skyrim. All I know is that the real threat is the Aldmeri Dominion. 

 

Some Solas eye candy:

 

Spoiler

[Colonelkillabee]

I think the difficulty of making a decision lies in the nuance - if you break Skyrim free from the Imperial Legion, you're fracturing it and presenting a hole in its armor the Dominion will have no qualms exploiting. Split apart and sundered from the rebellion, both Skyrim AND the Imperials are weaker against an Aldmeri Dominion invasion.

On the other, religious oppression and foreign control/ puppetry of Skyrim as a nation in an attempt to prevent their cultural identity is also wrong.

TL;DR: Religious zealotry and fanatic nationalism is scares the **** out of me as it frequently leads to violent militaristic conflict that cannot be reconciled by politics alone when public fervor is uncontrollable and unwilling to compromise. Both sides are deeply flawed in their own way.

Not necessarily, if you look at the geography of Tamriel. The Empire will be fighting the dominion no matter what, Ulfric shows desire to fight no matter what. Even though yes now, they are divided, an alliance despite the recent war against the elves is pretty much inevitable, especially since this is bethesda and they don't do branching decisions well at all. Things happen regardless of the choices you make, so the human races fighting the dominion, gonna happen regardless. Win or lose, that'll happen regardless.

 

But ignoring that point, after Skyrim is his, Ulfric mentions he has no desire to hurt the Empire after taking SKyrim. Its freedom is all he wants. And actually, a system of alliances is probably for the best, since the redguards aren't likely to sign up with a united empire after what they did to them last time. An alliance opens the possibility of gaining their services again, if they see neighbors standing against the elves equally rather than under the empire. Meaning they're safer and less likely to be screwed and left defenseless since they will ultimately decide where and how many troops to commit.

 

The only issue is if they can work as well this way, but nations have done it before both in real life and in TES.

 

Violent militarism is exactly what the races of men need right now, with the Dominion at their doorstep threatening to take over everything. Meanwhile it's been 26 years and the empire is still twiddling their thumbs. I think Solas would agree A tendancy to commit to innaction is a problem he wishes he could change about himself.

[jellobell]

Years of fiery disappointment were culminated in that scathing, pithy summary. I did NOT marry Marcurio to render him a personality-less merchant of root vegetables with the mindblowing powers of my Dragonborn vagina.

 

I DID, however, marry him to continue being the snicker to my snack as we vorpal bladed our way through Skyrim's virtual Jabberwocky of deep, dark dungeons and political cesspools. CABBAGES BE DAMNED.

That's why my Dragonlady married nobody and I headcanoned her and Marcurio being lovers. He loses all his snark when you marry him.

 

But man, if Ondolemar had been marriageable I might just have taken the plunge (no I don't have a thing for condescending elves, why do you ask?) 

[Colonelkillabee]

I totally want to know this. I totally don't want to read this.

Would you please summarize very briefly why a wood elf should support the Stormcloaks? I always expected them to stab me in the back any minute just because I wasn't a Nord. And that was pretty much where I drew the line. Revolutionary posture only takes you so far.

A wood elf, well that's easy.

 

The land of the Bosmer, Valenwood, was usurped from the grasp of the Empire due to their failings there. The thalmor came in and with the help of some of the disgruntled Bosmer, took the land from them and rebirthed the Aldmeri Dominion. Now their people belong to them, willingly or not, and are vulnerable to "purges" as Delphine hinted at. Whether for racial purity, political reasons, or what have you.

 

And then even after seeing this, the empire still dragged its feet and ignored the warning signs. And because of it, the blades were wiped out, the dominion has extended its reach all through the Empire, Hammerfell is half destroyed, and still the Empire twiddles their thumbs.

 

If I were a wood elf, I'd take any chance I get to send the thalmor packing. Especially if it meant supporting the one nation of people that want to take action against them, rather than playing wait n' see.

[jellobell]

I ended up...never doing the civil war stuff. Both sides sucked and I had dragons to fight.

[Colonelkillabee]

I play usually as an elf or an imperial. So that rules out the Stormcloaks since they hate both. I tried to on my nord playthrough but when I went to talk to Ulfric he treated me like **** and I couldn't justify working for him. Not that Tulius treats you much better, but I feel like the Empire has the majority of Tamriel in mind, not just Skyrim. All I know is that the real threat is the Aldmeri Dominion. 

I have all the Ulfric dialogue available to me. I know the majority of his dialogue to the player is the same for everyone. The only real difference is galmar asks you once why an elf or whatever would fight for them (nords get "foreigner") and he tells you why he asks, which is he wants to make sure you are dedicated and not just a merc or something.

 

Ulfric and the nords treat those with respect who earn it. They do not coddle. That is the nord way. Once you earn it, he shows his respect, as do the Nords with badass nicknames

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Patchwork]

If Skyrim stays with the Empire or not, although it seems likely Skyrim will gain independence regardless of what happens to Ulfric, the Empire has lost so many territories that alliances are going to have to be made if and when the Dominion renews its war efforts. 

[MoonDrummer]

Not necessarily, if you look at the geography of Tamriel. The Empire will be fighting the dominion no matter what, Ulfric shows desire to fight no matter what. Even though yes now, they are divided, an alliance despite the recent war against the elves is pretty much inevitable, especially since this is bethesda and they don't do branching decisions well at all. Things happen regardless of the choices you make, so the human races fighting the dominion, gonna happen regardless. Win or lose, that'll happen regardless.

 

But ignoring that point, after Skyrim is his, Ulfric mentions he has to desire to hurt the Empire after taking SKyrim. Its freedom is all he wants. And actually, a system of alliances is probably for the best, since the redguards aren't likely to sign up with a united empire after what they did to them last time. An alliance opens the possibility of recruiting their services again, if they see neighbors standing against the elves equally rather than under the empire. Meaning they're safer and less likely to be screwed and left defenseless since they will ultimately decide where and how many troops to commit.

 

The only issue is if they can work as well this way, but nations have done it before both in real life and in TES.

 

Violent militarism is exactly what the races of men need right now, with the Dominion at their doorstep threatening to take over everything. Meanwhile it's been 26 years and the empire is still twiddling their thumbs. I think Solas would agree A tendancy to commit to innaction is a problem he wishes he could change about himself.

But Ulfric does exactly what the Dominion wants by fighting a civil war, all he does is waste human manpower and makes it even more difficult for the empire to recover.

 

Also your point about alliances is arguable, look at Ireland, after breaking off from the Uk it was happy enough to sit back and watch nazis and fascists whilst their neighbour stood alone.

[Maria13]

I ended up...never doing the civil war stuff. Both sides sucked and I had dragons to fight.

 

Neither did I, and I played a hell of a lot of Skyrim but I found the backdrop so meh, I treated it like scenery...

[Colonelkillabee]

But Ulfric does exactly what the Dominion wants by fighting a civil war, all he does is waste human manpower and makes it even more difficult for the empire to recover.

As does the empire by fighting it rather than letting them have their freedom. If the greater good was really what they cared about, that's what they'd do, instead of simply being greedy and wishing to hold on to power.

 

Ulfric and the Nords have no choice but to fight this war or they'll be sacrificed just like the Empire has done countless times to their provinces before in the name of protecting Cyrodiil. Not to mention, they are simply sitting there while the dominion slinks through all their territory, sabotauging them from the inside. The dominion wants this war to continue, yes. They don't want any side to win, however. Which they say so themselves.

 

They do not have a choice but to fight, and that is the truth. The empire has shown they are incapable of leading themselves.

[Colonelkillabee]

I should probably invite people to PM me if they want to continue this since it's way off topic, lol.

[jellobell]

Neither did I, and I played a hell of a lot of Skyrim but I found the backdrop so meh, I treated it like scenery...

There's a ton to do in Skyrim, so I was able to leave the politicking aside and not feel like I was missing much.

 

And I treated my refusal to get involved as a conscious choice. My character just didn't want to have to deal with that crap. Then again, it's kinda hard to RP a consistent character in Skyrim when you want to experience as much content as possible in one playthrough. All ES games have that problem. Like how in Oblivion I was the Hero of Kvatch, savior of the world, leader of the dark brotherhood, successor to the Grey Fox, leader of pretty much every faction in the game really, and God of Madness. It's ridiculous. Madgod totally fit her because she was having trouble juggling all of her personalities as it was.

[MoonDrummer]

As does the empire by fighting it rather than letting them have their freedom. If the greater good was really what they cared about, that's what they'd do, instead of simply being greedy and wishing to hold on to power.

 

Ulfric and the Nords have no choice but to fight this war or they'll be sacrificed just like the Empire has done countless times to their provinces before in the name of protecting Cyrodiil. Not to mention, they are simply sitting there while the dominion slinks through all their territory, sabotauging them from the inside. The dominion wants this war to continue, yes. They don't want any side to win, however. Which they say so themselves.

 

They do not have a choice but to fight, and that is the truth. The empire has shown they are incapable of leading themselves.

But about half the population are loyalists, why should the empire abandon them?

[HayleyDawn]

I sat in the hills on the sides of towns and tried to kill people without getting caught. That's how I adopted a few of my ingame kids.

[Colonelkillabee]

But about half the population are loyalists, why should the empire abandon them?

Those loyalists weren't even given a choice initially. Their Jarls were given gold and told to shut their mouths when the WGC came, and the rebels simply refused when Ulfric gave them another option.

 

The empire isn't "abandoning them". That would assume that the Empire is fighting for them, rather than the other way around.