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[tsunamitigerdragon]

We don't have evidence for a lot of things but a few things stick out for me. One, that Mythal could exist as a wisp after being "murdered", and two, Solas not knowing what exactly the gods are himself, which seems very odd to me.

 

Like I said, I think the gods originally were ethereal, or close to it. He isn't a spirit, but the god may have been at one point.

The fact of the matter is that he OFFERS that possibility - that they might be "something we've never seen before." He didn't have to offer that possibility AT ALL. Solas is a terrible, terrible liar - what he does do is misdirect and lie through omission. What he's doing right here is, in an effort to tell you that you're wrong to assume they're just super powerful mages alone and wrong to assume they're just abominations, they're honestly something else. But he CAN'T tell you that without revealing how in the world he knows that. So he throws it out like "I dunno, herp derp, they could be something else entirely, guys! I don't have the authority to know that. Nope. None."

[Siha]

What would be the point of having Solas bound to Fen'Harel since Arlathan though? I just don't see why they would go through the added complication when it basically amounts to the same thing. If Solas was ever separate, it would have to be Arlathan for it to be relevant. Otherwise, why not just stick with plain single-entity Fen'Harel?

 

And yep, as Mims said with regards to Wynne

 

To be honest? For me personally that is more compelling because it gives you so much freedom. If a "god" is not bound to a physical entity but an immortal soul then there is so much... eternity. It can always shape, always change, it can be everywhere, all around you wherever you are. If a god is bound to a body it is so limited. Limited to places and time and limited to eyes and a nose and hand and feet. It is just not as divine and as omnipresent as it can be it is rather an essence. I see you prefer god Fen'Harel to be more like a person who can be touched and who can be there exclusively for somebody. But that's just what I do not like about it. How much it takes away.

When we speak of god we do not actually picture him as a person. That's what we tell children to give them something to understand. But it's more like he is everywhere, in all things. We do not take pieces of him or wear him out. He does not have to walk and carry a backpack. He so something untouchable, hence superior to everything else on Earth. At least that is the idea I have in mind and this idea I carry over to the elven gods. Hence, in my understanding, only one thing matters which is the soul and that is immortal. Seeing a god in front of me, standing there in a common body in whatever clothes I decide to put on him... actually, that would diminish the meaning of "god" and pull it down on another level, much more ordinary and common.

[BoscoBread]

I ally.

 

 

This is not exactly true. Justice did control Anders a great deal. But however, Justice is not a god, it's a spirit and that is a huge difference after all.
 

But what's the difference? A god is ONLY a god because somebody or a group of somebody's had to say they were.  Coryflora does this the entire game and you say 'uh no'.  But there were people that truly believed he was.  Does the fact that you say 'nope, you're not a god because reasonse' diminish their faith?  Does that diminish the fact that they did some unspeakably awful things in his name?  No. 

 

NOTE: Im not yelling at you or angry. I love this topic. Just want to make sure internet isn't making me come across as shitty.

[Arlee]

Honestly, I don't think there is anything to indicate Solas' situation is anything at all like what Flemeth/Mythal's is. There's a tidy explanation for why Flemeth/Mythal is a thing. There's no hint or anything which would indicate the same for Solas/Dread Wolf. Sure it's possible, but I'd say at this point it's far less likely than them never having been separate.

[Colonelkillabee]

The fact of the matter is that he OFFERS that possibility - that they might be "something we've never seen before." He didn't have to offer that possibility AT ALL. Solas is a terrible, terrible liar - what he does do is misdirect and lie through omission. What he's doing right here is, in an effort to tell you that you're wrong to assume they're just super powerful mages alone and wrong to assume they're just abominations, they're honestly something else. But he CAN'T tell you that without revealing how in the world he knows that. So he throws it out like "I dunno, herp derp, they could be something else entirely, guys! I don't have the authority to know that. Nope. None."

Eh, he does tell half truths yes, but in that instance, it didn't at all sound like what you described. It sounded like he genuinely didn't know. That still fits with his whole half truth thing. I don't really see the issue with it.

[jellobell]

We don't have evidence for a lot of things but a few things stick out for me. One, that Mythal could exist as a wisp after being "murdered", and two, Solas not knowing what exactly the gods are himself, which seems very odd to me.

1) Well, a version of Justinia existed after her apparent death. This doesn't seem to be an exclusively godly thing.

 

2) Solas seems to know. He just doesn't want to share (for obvious reasons). Here's what he says re: the gods.

 

Solas: I know. I believe the elven gods existed, as did the old gods of Tevinter. But I do not think any of them were gods, unless you expand the definition of the word to the point of absurdity. I appreciate the idea of your Maker, a god that does not need to prove his power. I wish more such gods felt the same.

 

Just remove "I believe" and replace "I do not think any" with "none" (because Solas can't exactly appear to be certain about this) and you've got a pretty clear "they weren't gods" position from him. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

This is not exactly true. Justice did control Anders a great deal. But however, Justice is not a god, it's a spirit and that is a huge difference after all.

 

I think it would be more accurate to say that Justice and Anders influenced each other a great deal.  Who's in control of whom is left deliberately unclear, and it can be affected by Hawke's actions (friendship/rivalry).  

 

We also don't know what exactly defines a god in the setting.  IMO DA:I was as much about faith as anything else.  Unlike other fantasy settings (say, Forgotten Realms or Lord of the Rings) as far as we know there's no spark of divinity that makes someone a god. Who's to say that very powerful spirits weren't worshipped as gods?  I agree that Justice's situation is very different from Solas's, but that's by virtue of experience, not godhood.

 

 

Seeing a god in front of me, standing there in a common body in whatever clothes I decide to put on him... actually, that would diminish the meaning of "god" and pull it down on another level, much more ordinary and common.

 

See, this is why I *like* the idea that Solas just is Fen'Harel.  Godhood itself is nothing special; it's the power of faith that makes it special.  I really liked the theme of faith that ran through DA:I, and having my Inquisitor struggle with it was a lot of fun.  She didn't believe there was anything divine in the Anchor, but others did, and that gave her power even if she didn't want it.

[Mims]

 Hence, in my understanding, only one thing matters which is the soul and that is immortal. Seeing a god in front of me, standing there in a common body in whatever clothes I decide to put on him... actually, that would diminish the meaning of "god" and pull it down on another level, much more ordinary and common.

 

This is exactly why Solas says that they are not gods. To include the elven gods as a true 'god', would be to stretch the meaning of the word god into the obscure. He's not a god. He's something. We don't know if that something is from the spirit [world] or from our world. But he is not a god in that all encompassing sense. 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Siha]

Then you and I have a very different definition of calm and collected.  Mythal/Flemeth are terrifying to me for the very reason that she seems to be on the verge of losing it.  That doesn't diminish her other qualities or the fact that she's astute, but she appears to have a very loose grasp on her rage.    That's just how I view the character so I won't really get into it. 

 

Solas gets disappointed and angry at times, yes,  but not to the point where's going to KILL the Inquisitor over their decisions.  Hell you can punch him and he doesn't do ****.   I'm talking straight up losing it.  We see it happen once. 

Obviously. I always felt intimidated by Flemeth. She would simply laugh at anything, never fear. Always try to offer you an alternative (e.g., take the grimoire peacefully). I have not once seen her in anger or rage. Flemeth never tried to kill me either. Were I to punch her she'd just laugh and say something mysterious, I am sure.

[Colonelkillabee]

1) Well, a version of Justinia existed after her apparent death. This doesn't seem to be an exclusively godly thing.

 

2) Solas seems to know. He just doesn't want to share (for obvious reasons). Here's what he says re: the gods.

 

Solas: I know. I believe the elven gods existed, as did the old gods of Tevinter. But I do not think any of them were gods, unless you expand the definition of the word to the point of absurdity. I appreciate the idea of your Maker, a god that does not need to prove his power. I wish more such gods felt the same.

 

Just remove "I believe" and replace "I do not think any" with "none" (because Solas can't exactly appear to be certain about this) and you've got a pretty clear "they weren't gods" position from him. 

We don't even know if that was justinia.

 

As for "they weren't gods", like I said before, and as he apparently said if that's the whole dialogue from the game, what one person considers a god isn't the same as another all the time. To him they might not be gods. Doesn't make that true.

 

Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see. "Bodies are such limiting things," still rings in my head, which isn't something flemeth would say if her state was something that was a result of her death alone. It sounds like a good thing the way she said that.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Obviously. I always felt intimidated by Flemeth. She would simply laugh at anything, never fear. Always try to offer you an alternative (e.g., take the grimoire peacefully). I have not once seen her in anger or rage. Flemeth never tried to kill me either. Were I to punch her she'd just laugh and say something mysterious, I am sure.

 

I was definitely terrified of Flemeth in the Fade with Morrigan and Kieran.  She basically tells Morrigan and quizzy "Sit down, shut up, and listen because I could kick your ass without batting an eyelash."  She didn't even raise her voice, and that was what scared the crap out of me.  As a player, I've always known that Flemeth was much more powerful than she let on, but that really hit it home for me.

 

I hope she's not totally gone.  I know her story came to a conclusion of sorts, but I'll miss her sassing my various heroines.

[Colonelkillabee]

I was definitely terrified of Flemeth in the Fade with Morrigan and Kieran.  She basically tells Morrigan and quizzy "Sit down, shut up, and listen because I could kick your ass without batting an eyelash."  She didn't even raise her voice, and that was what scared the crap out of me.  As a player, I've always known that Flemeth was much more powerful than she let on, but that really hit it home for me.

Lol I wasn't the first time honestly. Mary Sue Warden kicked her ass already lol. Whether she was holding back or not, I don't know but it's hard for me to feel intimidated after that.

[Arlee]

I was definitely terrified of Flemeth in the Fade with Morrigan and Kieran.  She basically tells Morrigan and quizzy "Sit down, shut up, and listen because I could kick your ass without batting an eyelash."  She didn't even raise her voice, and that was what scared the crap out of me.  As a player, I've always known that Flemeth was much more powerful than she let on, but that really hit it home for me.

 

Definitely agree that she was a good bit scary even in the scene you get at the Alter of Mythal if you didn't have the OGB. However, I also have to admit I laughed for like 10 minutes before I could continue with the scene when she first showed up because I let Morrigan drink from the well on my first PT and despite my love for Morrigan I thought it was hilarious she willingly bound herself to her mom's will It seemed rather poetic.

[flabbadence]

To be honest? For me personally that is more compelling because it gives you so much freedom. If a "god" is not bound to a physical entity but an immortal soul then there is so much... eternity. It can always shape, always change, it can be everywhere, all around you wherever you are. If a god is bound to a body it is so limited. Limited to places and time and limited to eyes and a nose and hand and feet. It is just not as divine and as omnipresent as it can be it is rather an essence. I see you prefer god Fen'Harel to be more like a person who can be touched and who can be there exclusively for somebody. But that's just what I do not like about it. How much it takes away.

When we speak of god we do not actually picture him as a person. That's what we tell children to give them something to understand. But it's more like he is everywhere, in all things. We do not take pieces of him or wear him out. He does not have to walk and carry a backpack. He so something untouchable, hence superior to everything else on Earth. At least that is the idea I have in mind and this idea I carry over to the elven gods. Hence, in my understanding, only one thing matters which is the soul and that is immortal. Seeing a god in front of me, standing there in a common body in whatever clothes I decide to put on him... actually, that would diminish the meaning of "god" and pull it down on another level, much more ordinary and common.

 

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then, because I really like this humanizing of gods DA's going for. They're still pretty powerful, but they're no longer some inconceivable, ungraspable being I can't at all relate to.

 

There's a reason why Christianity's one of, if not the most widespread religions in the world. It's because Christ was made human and made to suffer. If there's a god out there, might as well as be someone we can relate to, and who can understand our pain.

[Siha]

A god is ONLY a god because somebody or a group of somebody's had to say they were.  Coryflora does this the entire game and you say 'uh no'. 

 

Alright, I might be mixing it up with too much of my "religious understanding". If our god is only a god because somebody said so, yes. However, Corypheus is somebody I can see and I have never seen "our" god, which probably led me to believe he was not bound to a physical body. And I have a problem with believing that anything physical could ever be immortal because nothing in the world does not decay. I just cannot combine my scientific knowledge with the idea of immortality, unless the immortality is nothing physical. Actually, I even think that this is my biggest problem. And I am just not the kind of person who can simply say "But it is all different there, it is magic". I believe that if you can you can see things very different.

 

I'd rather have a human god than one I cannot understand - because it means they couldn't understand me in turn.

 

I might rather not have any god at all. But if there is to be one that I do not want him to be like me. What would make him a god and not me? Unfair.

[Colonelkillabee]

I also have to admit I laughed for like 10 minutes before I could continue with the scene when she first showed up because I let Morrigan drink from the well on my first PT and despite my love for Morrigan I thought it was hilarious she willingly bound herself to her mom's will It seemed rather poetic.

Same... that probably contributed for me too. It was really hilarious.

[Colonelkillabee]

 

What would make him a god and not me? Unfair.

Calm down, Lucifer (I kid).

[Siha]

Lol I wasn't the first time honestly. Mary Sue Warden kicked her ass already lol. Whether she was holding back or not, I don't know but it's hard for me to feel intimidated after that.

 

Of course she was holding back. Maybe even testing. Flemeth had no interest in killing or harming the Warden, she needed him/her.

[Rav]

Pics or it didn't happen!

http://vampirefreaks...8&g=0&s=3&fid=0

 

here! xD

[Mims]

I let Morrigan drink from the well on my first PT and despite my love for Morrigan I thought it was hilarious she willingly bound herself to her mom's will It seemed rather poetic.

 

Morrigan's one of my favorite characters, but the irony was just too perfect. She just has this wonderful deadpan when she says that line. Also an important warning for her. I don't think she's in any danger from Flemeth, but she might want to be a bit more careful when it comes to ancient rituals in the future. 

[Janic99]

Pics or it didn't happen!

I know it did. he is a good friend of mine LOL I saw it! He looks better with it than before :PPPPPP

[Colonelkillabee]

Of course she was holding back. Maybe even testing. Flemeth had no interest in killing or harming the Warden, she needed him/her.

That's a lot to gamble on, dying purposefully and hoping some yokel ferelden does what you asked.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I might rather not have any god at all. But if there is to be one that I do not want him to be like me. What would make him a god and not me? Unfair.

 

If we're talking about the Inquisitor (and not RL), quizzy is pretty close to a god for the setting.  People believe that the Anchor is divine (which it is, in a sense, since it came from Fen'Harel's orb), and that belief gives the Inquisitor tremendous power no matter what they do or say.  Add the fact that quizzy might have drunk from the Well, and the unique Fade powers provided by the Anchor...that's a character well on the road to apotheosis.  Which could be its own fascinating story.

 

 

Definitely agree that she was a good bit scary even in the scene you get at the Alter of Mythal if you didn't have the OGB. However, I also have to admit I laughed for like 10 minutes before I could continue with the scene when she first showed up because I let Morrigan drink from the well on my first PT and despite my love for Morrigan I thought it was hilarious she willingly bound herself to her mom's will It seemed rather poetic.

 

Yeah...as much as I love Morrigan, she had that one coming.  Everything about the Well had "BAD NEWS BEARS" written all over it in neon signs.