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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#69351
Illyria

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Why would you separate what makes a person them though? Fen'harel's experiences are his. Solas' experiences are his. It's like two rivers conjoining as one. Two timelines connected. They aren't Fen'harel's experiences and Solas'. They become Solas' experiences. If you can't separate the god from the elf, then they are one and the same. Solas is Fen'harel.

 

Well, to use your analogy of hydrogen and oxgen.  Together they make water; and water doesn't stop being water because it's two elements.  But seperate them and they're not water any more.  To me it's a distinction.  Solas is Solas and what makes him an interesting character is that you can see how his life experiences have shaped the person he is.  Him possessing Solas takes away from that, and it runs the danger of making of Anders 2.0.
 



#69352
Colonelkillabee

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Well, to use your analogy of hydrogen and oxgen.  Together they make water; and water doesn't stop being water because it's two elements.  But seperate them and they're not water any more.  To me it's a distinction.  Solas is Solas and what makes him an interesting character is that you can see how his life experiences have shaped the person he is.  Him possessing Solas takes away from that, and it runs the danger of making of Anders 2.0.
 

I'm not talking possession firstly and second, this assumes that he can be separated. I don't think he can, because it wasn't possession, but a bonding, different and more complete than what Anders and some spirit could pull off, especially when they aren't compatible.

 

It's what I bet demons want but can't achieve. Ulren was hinting at a possibility like that, mages being "so much more".



#69353
Siha

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It's because Christ was made human and made to suffer. If there's a god out there, might as well as be someone we can relate to, and who can understand our pain.

 

Jesus is not a god. If we wish to compare Solas with Jesus, fine, but that brings it to another level.

 

 

If you (not only you, flabba) think that the elven gods are bound to a body and Mythal was an exception, then what's about the OGS in the archdemons and stuff? How do the OGS even exist and can be carried by a corrupted dagon if they are inside the elven gods' bodies? We've had 5 Blights, 5 OGS. Four of them we don't know about, but one is in Solas now. Where are their bodies? How were they separated if they do not body hop? What happened? I do not think a soul can be taken without its consent.

Actually, every unrelated to this debate, I have wondered this for awhile.



#69354
jellobell

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As for "they weren't gods", like I said before, and as he apparently said if that's the whole dialogue from the game, what one person considers a god isn't the same as another all the time. To him they might not be gods. Doesn't make that true.

Sure, I could pick up a random stick and tie a turnip to the top and call it a god. But Solas knows better than anybody else what exactly the elven "gods" were. And he obviously doesn't think of them as such. Is a powerful being suddenly a god simply by virtue of their power? What is a god? He seems to have thought of them as powerful, and very flawed, individuals, and he himself fits into that category.

 

I think the best bit of foreshadowing of what Solas truly is is the Inquisitor themselves. People are already beginning to worship them as divine, even though they're just an ordinary person who is able to do extraordinary things. A thousand years from now, who's to say that stories of the Inquisitor won't make them seem just as godly as tales of Fen'harel?

 

 

To be honest? For me personally that is more compelling because it gives you so much freedom. If a "god" is not bound to a physical entity but an immortal soul then there is so much... eternity. It can always shape, always change, it can be everywhere, all around you wherever you are. If a god is bound to a body it is so limited. Limited to places and time and limited to eyes and a nose and hand and feet. It is just not as divine and as omnipresent as it can be it is rather an essence. I see you prefer god Fen'Harel to be more like a person who can be touched and who can be there exclusively for somebody. But that's just what I do not like about it. How much it takes away.

 

When we speak of god we do not actually picture him as a person. That's what we tell children to give them something to understand. But it's more like he is everywhere, in all things. We do not take pieces of him or wear him out. He does not have to walk and carry a backpack. He so something untouchable, hence superior to everything else on Earth. At least that is the idea I have in mind and this idea I carry over to the elven gods. Hence, in my understanding, only one thing matters which is the soul and that is immortal. Seeing a god in front of me, standing there in a common body in whatever clothes I decide to put on him... actually, that would diminish the meaning of "god" and pull it down on another level, much more ordinary and common.

And that's why I don't think Solas, or any of the elven pantheon, were gods. You're using the whole, "omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent (possibly omnibenevolent)" definition that most monotheistic religions go with. That's the same definition that believers in the Maker seem to be sticking with as well. But the Creators are much more in the mold of Polytheistic religions, where the gods are often personifications of creative forces. And by personifications, I mean people. Flawed, powerful, and often horrible people. Would you say that's a god? I wouldn't. And Solas is very obviously a person, with all of the flaws and contradictions that come with that. The wonderful thing about Solas is that he makes mistakes. A lot of mistakes. And has regrets. Gods aren't allowed to make mistakes. It undermines their godliness. Ultimately, I think Solas is like the Inquisitor. Someone who stepped up to do something that needed to be done, and was vilified by history for it. He's not a god. Just someone who had more power than most other people.


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#69355
Siha

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Neat!


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#69356
BoscoBread

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Morrigan's one of my favorite characters, but the irony was just too perfect. She just has this wonderful deadpan when she says that line. Also an important warning for her. I don't think she's in any danger from Flemeth, but she might want to be a bit more careful when it comes to ancient rituals in the future. 

The way she says "What a delight" after that scene. Worth it in every playthrough.  My Quizzy skipped into the garden laughing.


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#69357
Sable Rhapsody

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Him possessing Solas takes away from that, and it runs the danger of making of Anders 2.0.

 

DA2 Anders was a less likeable character than Awakening Anders, but so much more fascinating to me.  I have a passionate love/hate relationship with that character, and I love every moment of it  :lol: But on the other hand, I get where you're coming from.  To some extent, BioWare has already told the possession story and its variations (Wynne, Evangeline, Anders, arguably the Seekers and Tranquil who get cured).


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#69358
Illyria

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EVERYONE in the game that has been possessed is NUTS.  Even Mythal/Flemeth.  It is not natural and we have been told this in every single Dragon Age game.   

 

What about Wynne and Evangeline?



#69359
Siha

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Solas is Solas and what makes him an interesting character is that you can see how his life experiences have shaped the person he is.
 

 

But we don't even know his life experiences. :ph34r:



#69360
Colonelkillabee

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Sure, I could pick up a random stick and tie a turnip to the top and call it a god. But Solas knows better than anybody else what exactly the elven "gods" were. And he obviously doesn't think of them as such. Is a powerful being suddenly a god simply by virtue of their power? What is a god? He seems to have thought of them as powerful, and very flawed, individuals, and he himself fits into that category.

 

I think the best bit of foreshadowing of what Solas truly is is the Inquisitor themselves. People are already beginning to worship them as divine, even though they're just an ordinary person who is able to do extraordinary things. A thousand years from now, who's to say that stories of the Inquisitor might make them seem just as godly as tales of Fen'harel?

Some common sense is in order, here. A god is something more powerful than yourself by a great magnitude, at the very least. Well, to fen'harel, they wouldn't be gods, they'd just be.

 

And if that's the case on the inquisitor, then it shows this is possible, especially if that power is a piece of himself. You didn't obtain that power on your own, it belongs to Fen'harel.


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#69361
Siha

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Calm down, Lucifer :P (I kid).

 

You just wait, I'll give you hell for all eternity my friend. (Ha!)
 



#69362
Colonelkillabee

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But we don't even know his life experiences. :ph34r:

Lol indeed. People assume too much of the guy that told them half truths since the relationship began.



#69363
Colonelkillabee

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You just wait, I'll give you hell for all eternity my friend. (Ha!)
 

If you send me to New Jersey, I'm making a fanfic of Solas with a male qunari, LOL.



#69364
Sable Rhapsody

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And if that's the case on the inquisitor, then it shows this is possible, especially if that power is a piece of himself. You didn't obtain that power on your own, it belongs to Fen'harel.

 

Though arguably it's yours now.  Coryflora says that you've "spoilt" the Anchor, and he can't remove it from you despite being the one who set up the ritual for the Anchor in the first place, AND having the elven orb in his possession.  The Anchor may have originated with Fen'Harel's orb, but all indications in the game point toward it being pretty firmly glued to Quizzy now.


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#69365
Siha

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That's a lot to gamble on, dying purposefully and hoping some yokel ferelden does what you asked.

 

She didn't die that day. We meet her in her body when saves Hawke. Also that fight was war too easy, just compare it to the arisen Andraste. She just took a nap, the body even did not vanish like the others.



#69366
Colonelkillabee

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She didn't die that day. We meet her in her body when saves Hawke. Also that fight was war too easy, just compare it to the arisen Andraste. She just took a nap, the body even did not vanish like the others.

The arisen andraste?

 

It seemed like she would have been lost to me had we not given her to Merrill in DA 2.

 

But yea the fight was easy, and I'd prefer not thinking it's because HoF is just a huge Mary Sue. Could just be that Mythal's not as strong as you'd expect her to be this weakened though.



#69367
nikki-tikki

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I don't know. Fenris doesn't really relate to his being an elf, as evident in his banters with Merrill. So long as you don't call him flat ear, and I doubt Solas would, I think they'll be pretty chill. And who knows, maybe Solas will even offer to remove Fenris's markings and then I no longer have to think about Fenris someday dying of lyrium poisoning

 

Edit: Ok I can't help but think about this some more.

 

I think Fenris is going to be on edge at first, as he always is with a mage. But Solas is polite and knows when to keep his distance, though he'll probably be both disgusted and fascinated by the lyrium markings, since they're probably Tevinter twisting the vallaslin. So little by little, he'll try to get close to Fenris. And Fenris is actually pretty civil, except when he hates you. So unless Solas shows his pity, and he knows when not to as evident in his relationship with Sera, and so long as Solas doesn't try making Fenris more elfy, they'll be fine. Heck, they can even be friends.

 

I'd ship this bromance. 


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#69368
Illyria

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DA2 Anders was a less likeable character than Awakening Anders, but so much more fascinating to me.  I have a passionate love/hate relationship with that character, and I love every moment of it  :lol: But on the other hand, I get where you're coming from.  To some extent, BioWare has already told the possession story and its variations (Wynne, Evangeline, Anders, arguably the Seekers and Tranquil who get cured).

 

I have a more 'hate/hate' relationship with DA2!Anders...


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#69369
Rav

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Neat!

i just need the skull and the clothes solas has on when hes younger and i can cosplay him!



#69370
flabbadence

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Jesus is not a god. If we wish to compare Solas with Jesus, fine, but that brings it to another level.

 

 

If you (not only you, flabba) think that the elven gods are bound to a body and Mythal was an exception, then what's about the OGS in the archdemons and stuff? How do the OGS even exist and can be carried by a corrupted dagon if they are inside the elven gods' bodies? We've had 5 Blights, 5 OGS. Four of them we don't know about, but one is in Solas now. Where are their bodies? How were they separated if they do not body hop? What happened? I do not think a soul can be taken without its consent.

Actually, every unrelated to this debate, I have wondered this for awhile.

 

Jesus is God according to Christianity, but let's not argue about that  :lol:

 

As for the archdemons, we're not exactly sure they're elven gods. But if they were, then why can't those dragons be their original bodies? Mythal can transform into a dragon after all, and archdemons are pretty much just dragons.

 

Hrmm. I think I've changed my stance on whether archdemons were elven gods or not though. They're probably not, because the elven gods are supposed to be trapped. But elven gods might still be influencing the archdemons from their prison through the taint.



#69371
Siha

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in the mold of Polytheistic religions, where the gods are often personifications of creative forces. And by personifications, I mean people. Flawed, powerful, and often horrible people. Would you say that's a god? I wouldn't. And Solas is very obviously a person, with all of the flaws and contradictions that come with that. The wonderful thing about Solas is that he makes mistakes. A lot of mistakes. And has regrets. Gods aren't allowed to make mistakes. It undermines their godliness. Ultimately, I think Solas is like the Inquisitor. Someone who stepped up to do something that needed to be done, and was vilified by history for it. He's not a god. Just someone who had more power than most other people.

 

A personification is not a person.

But I can live with "Solas is not a god".

Besides, he might not even ever have had "god status", at least he's always depicted as such an outsider, who knows what the other's even thought of him. He might be something totally different. He's also usually depicted as a wolf in contrast to the other gods.
 



#69372
Illyria

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But we don't even know his life experiences. :ph34r:

 

We know some.  We know he has regret for actions in his past, we know he was in war.  There's not much, but it's possible to see through banters how his past have shaped his present.



#69373
Mims

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To me, the fact that the orb can be so horribly misused without Fen'Harel's consent further implies that he's not truly a divine being. What is the point of having a foci if you are already a god? Why isn't this orb completely bound to Fen'Harel's soul/spirit/godhood?

 

We can assume that perhaps he might have granted the orb 'acceptance' to work with Corypheus. But then the Inquisitor just derps and picks it up, causing the power to become bound to them. The orb needs no one's permission. It just works if it is charged up with enough power. 


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#69374
Illyria

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I'd ship this bromance. 

 

Fenris/Solas bromance is the best and I want to see it in a game so badly.


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#69375
jellobell

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Some common sense is in order, here. A god is something more powerful than yourself by a great magnitude, at the very least.

No, I think a god is much more than that. A mage is much more powerful than myself. They're able to shape the world according to their whims. Nature is much more powerful than myself. To be a god is not simply to be powerful, or that stretches the definition to the point of absurdity. And Solas says exactly that. Ultimately, I don't think he is ready to define exactly what a god is. In his chats with Cass he seems to like the idea of the monotheistic Maker. But he does know that the elven pantheon would not fit his definition of a god. They were apparently much too focused on proving their own power to their followers rather than helping them.

 

And if that's the case on the inquisitor, then it shows this is possible, especially if that power is a piece of himself. You didn't obtain that power on your own, it belongs to Fen'harel.

Yet that power isn't sentient. I do think that the elven "gods" had power that was out of the ordinary way. But I think it was just power. The people who wielded that power were individuals, not individuals combined with spirits. After all, they were able to offer Apotheosis to Ghilan'nain. I think that corresponded to giving her the power that they had somehow discovered.

 

And that fits with the anchor and the orb. Solas is still himself, even without the orb or the anchor. It's not tied to what he is. And the Inquisitor is still the Inquisitor, even after gaining the Anchor.


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