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[flabbadence]

omgggggg the head cannon is firing....

 

Cole is able to finally help Fenris overcome his hate. It would be such a touching moment and thinking about it makes me cry.

 

You and me both

 

[Seregwen]

I grew an irrational hatred for Tonilia when I found out she was hooking up with Brynjolf despite already being with the barman dude. 

I may have tried to kill her.

She's vital so she won't die.

Endless sulking.

 

Probably a good thing I played it on PS3 without mod options.

WHAT???????????????????????????????????

 

everything is ruined!!!! (ok sorry still two days behind bbl)

[TheViper8234]

dat post credits.....I need Witch Hunt for Solas so I can kill his coward ass.

[nikki-tikki]

You and me both

 

We must get through this together...

 

[jellobell]

WHAT???????????????????????????????????

Someone tells Tonilia that there's a rumour that she's hooking up with Brynjolf, which she quashes. I never got the sense that they were actually doing anything.

[BoscoBread]

What that means is that until we have a single, clear-cut definition of "god" given to us by the writers, (and not our own personal definition of "god") there is no way of proving or disproving if Solas does or does not fit into that category. Solas's opinion on the matter means less than nothing. His believing he is not a god does not make it so.

 

What we do know, however, is that according to the definitions of "god" given here, Fen'harel, for all intents and purposes, is indeed a "god" because he fits one or more of the above guidelines.

 

Until we are proved otherwise, Fen'harel is considered a god by his "people" and I will consider him as such as well.

 

I'm late to the conversation. Sorry.

The writers never will. That's kind of the point.  It's about faith. Perception as reality.  The creators were "gods" because people said they were.  People did things in their name for that belief.  That means something.  They weren't gods in the sense we all view one as this ominscent being - like the Maker is described.  But in that same breath - you could say Corypheus was a god same thing with the Herald.  You'll say 'no', but why not?  The Herald commands probably the most magical power Thedas has seen in ages - she/he can walk physically in the Fade and do it all the time. They have the ability to rip open a hole in reality.  They command a massive army.  Your influence is massive. The Inquisitor is a god by those definitions.

 

Do I believe they were gods. No. I believe they were deified powerful mages and abused the power they were given. Do I thinkthe Inquisitor is god. Hell no. 

[flabbadence]

We must get through this together...

 

 

lmao, this is just the perfect gif. "My heart" will never be the same after having gone through the Fenris and the Solas romance 

[Raeona]

It's like a set up for an amazing cop show.  A mage hating former slave, an elven god of rebellion and a spirit of compassion.  Together they fight crime!

 

Lyrium and Eggs by Varric Tethras.  Now avaible in The Wonders of Thedas and at your local dwarven bookseller.

 

To whom do I give my money? 

 

Of course Fenris would flip his **** over Cole, and he'd probably never let the strange apostate near his tattoos, but then they could learn to respect each other and Cole would want to help with the forgotten memories and Solas would come to respect escaping slavery and and and... I need to sit down. 

[Avejajed]

The writers never will. That's kind of the point.  It's about faith. Perception as reality.  The creators were "gods" because people said they were.  People did things in their name for that belief.  That means something.  They weren't gods in the sense we all view one as this ominscent being - like the Maker is described.  But in that same breath - you could say Corypheus was a god same thing with the Herald.  You'll say 'no', but why not?  The Herald commands probably the most magical power Thedas has seen in ages - she/he can walk physically in the Fade and do it all the time. They have the ability to rip open a hole in reality.  They command a massive army.  Your influence is massive. The Inquisitor is a god by those definitions.

 

Do I believe they were gods. No. I believe they were deified powerful mages and abused the power they were given. Do I thinkthe Inquisitor is god. Hell no. 

 

My point is not that I'm right that Solas is a god and that anyone who disagrees is wrong.

 

My point is that this argument is pointless because what "elven god" means has not been defined. 

 

All we know for certain is Solas is Fen'harel, and Fen'harel is worshiped by the elves as a god.  They have defined him as such. So to them, he will never be just a really powerful mage or spirit. He fits their definition of god. Within those parameters, our opinions on the subject don't really matter except for our own personal headcannon.

[Maria13]

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then, because I really like this humanizing of gods DA's going for. They're still pretty powerful, but they're no longer some inconceivable, ungraspable being I can't at all relate to.

 

There's a reason why Christianity's one of, if not the most widespread religions in the world. It's because Christ was made human and made to suffer. If there's a god out there, might as well as be someone we can relate to, and who can understand our pain.

 

Lot to debate there, but it's OT. I mean I find the idea of a god becoming a mortal to see what it's like appealing but... That it should be the idea itself that bolsters the religion's popularity? No. 

[nikki-tikki]

lmao, this is just the perfect gif. "My heart" will never be the same after having gone through the Fenris and the Solas romance 

Permanently scarred. But that's okay because they are both beautiful ^{and at least Fenris comes back....} 

[flabbadence]

Lot to debate there, but it's OT. I mean I find the idea of a god becoming a mortal to see what it's like but... That it should be the idea itself that bolsters the religion's popularity? No. 

 

Well, the crusades and Christian colonialism and infant baptism sure helped, but yep, this is OT now 

[flabbadence]

Permanently scarred. But that's okay because they are both beautiful ^{and at least Fenris comes back....} 

 

THIS. Seriously. If I can wait for Fenris for three years, I can wait for Solas. I am a dedicated waiter.

[Colonelkillabee]

I find this conversation about Solas being a "god" both interesting...and frustrating.
 
The first problem is that we are all using our own definitions of what "god" means anyway.
 
Here's what Oxford says.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
What that means is that until we have a single, clear-cut definition of "god" given to us by the writers, (and not our own personal definition of "god") there is no way of proving or disproving if Solas does or does not fit into that category. Solas's opinion on the matter means less than nothing. His believing he is not a god does not make it so.
 
What we do know, however, is that according to the definitions of "god" given here, Fen'harel, for all intents and purposes, is indeed a "god" because he fits one or more of the above guidelines.
 
Until we are proved otherwise, Fen'harel is considered a god by his "people" and I will consider him as such as well.
 
I'm late to the conversation. Sorry.

not to mention, when they were talking about Mythal in the game notes, didn't they mention her divine spark?

[Maria13]

And yay! PS4 downloaded patch and activated one of the remaining devices with Solas and got "Measuring the strength of the veil" on the battle table...

[Vorathrad]

The writers never will. That's kind of the point.  It's about faith. Perception as reality.  The creators were "gods" because people said they were.  People did things in their name for that belief.  That means something.  They weren't gods in the sense we all view one as this ominscent being - like the Maker is described.  But in that same breath - you could say Corypheus was a god same thing with the Herald.  You'll say 'no', but why not?  The Herald commands probably the most magical power Thedas has seen in ages - she/he can walk physically in the Fade and do it all the time. They have the ability to rip open a hole in reality.  They command a massive army.  Your influence is massive. The Inquisitor is a god by those definitions.
 
Do I believe they were gods. No. I believe they were deified powerful mages and abused the power they were given. Do I thinkthe Inquisitor is god. Hell no.

Varric tells the Inquisitor that her feats are very similar to Andraste; and someone else (I can't remember who) says something along the lines of the Inquisitor eventually being perceived as god or god-like as legends about her life will become twisted and magnified (they are even before Coryfleur is defeated)

It's not related to anything, but I have to say I loved the posts about Filipine mythology. And I love this godhood discussion. I love y'all!! *enters in hippy mode and spreads flowers around*

[Sable Rhapsody]

Varric tells the Inquisitor that her feats are very similar to Andraste; and someone else (I can't remember who) says something along the lines of the Inquisitor eventually being perceived as god or god-like as legends about her life will become twisted and magnified (they are even before Coryfleur is defeated)

 

Ugh, my poor Inquisitor.  For a character well-suited to apotheosis, she takes it very, very poorly.  As a player I think it'll make for a great story, but I feel so bad for her.  The idea that people will make her into someone else, someone she wouldn't even like, drives her absolutely batty.

 

It's part of why I don't think the Fen'Harel reveal will bother her as much.  "OMG, people misconstrue what you did and said?  Me too!  I forgive you, let's go make Fade kisses." 

[Colonelkillabee]

THIS. Seriously. If I can wait for Fenris for three years, I can wait for Solas. I am a dedicated waiter.

I don't think you'd want to play the waiting game with Solas, lol

[Caddius]

"Aww. Well, Allan's tears prediction was true. And now I think he's Fen'harel if he can kill Flemeth.  :lol:"-Tamyn of the Old Spoiler Thread.

 

[Uirebhiril]

"Aww. Well, Allan's tears prediction was true. And now I think he's Fen'harel if he can kill Flemeth.  :lol:"-Tamyn of the Old Spoiler Thread.

 

 

You know, when Allan asked what if romancing Solas required tears, people were too happy to say it would be worth it and threw in all sorts of crying gifs to illustrate the point. We can't say we didn't agree to it.

 

And it was still worth it and will forever have been worth it.

 

Just give us a happy ending or a satisfying resolution plz.

[Elven_Glory]

Where are you from? That sounds a lot like me and I've always wondered where "my people" are


So this is particularly interesting because of the chess game with Bull (don't click if you don't want to know how it ends):

Spoiler

Solas wins by tactfully moving a pawn to an important place. Bull gives him all kinds of grief over it because he knows they are in the endgame and thinks Solas wasted a move by moving his pawn; that is until a couple of moves later when Bull realizes he's been checkmated because of it. It's probably not particularly intended as a deeper reading of Solas' character but I definitely think there are some parallels there in that he definitely thinks everyone no matter how "small" matters and can make a difference... which then makes it interesting to think about why he thinks he needs to do whatever he has to do alone.

Yes, that is the idea from which I drew the conclusion. The Inquisition is Solas's chess game. He set it up, he maneuvered the pieces. He is the genius behind the whole thing. Lavellan is the pawn and he, of course, is the mage. There can also be parallels drawn between the queen and Mythal. Solas very much loves to show what "little people can do." In this way, he is very much like Sera, except Sera had no end game and Solas constantly has the end game in mind as he orchestrates everything from the safety of the background. In my mind, it is really Solas that should be the Inquisitor, as he is the one pulling the strings, but he would never agree to that. So we become pawns in his chess game, and yet we never mind even once we realize because it is Solas, and Solas has proven that he cares what happens to you. Besides, seeing as the Inquisition's goal aligned with his at the time, I did not feel used. What would be the point? Which is also one of the reasons, I believe, he chooses to leave. He cares about you and he doesn't want to manipulate you into doing something you might disagree with.

[Colonelkillabee]

I think you give Solas a little too much credit. Solas definitely puts things in motion, but ultimately the ones that set up the inquisition are Cassandra and Leliana.

[Arlee]

I think you give Solas a little too much credit. Solas definitely puts things in motion, but ultimately the ones that set up the inquisition are Cassandra and Leliana.

 

I don't think anyone is saying he created the Inquisition, just made use of them extensively. Ie, when you set-up a chessboard you don't have to first create the pieces and the board, you just maneuver them about to accomplish the goal.

[Caddius]

To be honest? For me personally that is more compelling because it gives you so much freedom. If a "god" is not bound to a physical entity but an immortal soul then there is so much... eternity. It can always shape, always change, it can be everywhere, all around you wherever you are. If a god is bound to a body it is so limited. Limited to places and time and limited to eyes and a nose and hand and feet. It is just not as divine and as omnipresent as it can be it is rather an essence. I see you prefer god Fen'Harel to be more like a person who can be touched and who can be there exclusively for somebody. But that's just what I do not like about it. How much it takes away.

When we speak of god we do not actually picture him as a person. That's what we tell children to give them something to understand. But it's more like he is everywhere, in all things. We do not take pieces of him or wear him out. He does not have to walk and carry a backpack. He so something untouchable, hence superior to everything else on Earth. At least that is the idea I have in mind and this idea I carry over to the elven gods. Hence, in my understanding, only one thing matters which is the soul and that is immortal. Seeing a god in front of me, standing there in a common body in whatever clothes I decide to put on him... actually, that would diminish the meaning of "god" and pull it down on another level, much more ordinary and common.

And in similar fashion, I compare the Creators to Classical Pantheon of the Greeks and Romans because I think they fit much better than the Abrahamic God.

They're an incredibly messed up 'family' of gods, each with their own spheres of influence. While they are not omnipresent, they do have shapeshifting and magical powers. They are extremely powerful, and they are arseholes. Worship of the Creators has even been replaced, through time, entropy, and occasional hectic violence, with worship of the Abrahamic God's counterpart, the Maker. The Maker is portrayed as so untouchable that he's not even paying attention to Thedas anymore. Andrastianism is about trying to please the unfathomable, impossibly high up father figure.

I'm not sure where I fall on the Fen'harel aspect. I love the idea of the gods being 'something we haven't seen before', and Solas didn't just make that one up.  But I also love Solas's stories of the village and learning to wander the Fade. Then again, if the Fade wasn't in place in the early days of the Creators, that opens up a whole new can of worms.

The biggest suggestion to me of Solas being an elf that joined with Fen'harel is the Tarot cards. The Hierophant portrays a small white wolf and Solas, which is kinda cutesy. But it's the Tower card, with the shadowy, roiling mass of Fen'harel looming over and threatening to consume the lonely, wandering Solas, that makes me think that. Maybe it's just symbolizing the duty of the Dread Wolf overshadowing everything in his life.

Also, why would Solas point Leliana out to an actual ruined village? The fact that the ruins are still there suggests it was more recent than 8000 years. I mean, unless they were stone, and even then. We don't have many cities from 6000BC left. 

I dunno, basically.

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't think anyone is saying he created the Inquisition, just made use of them extensively. Ie, when you set-up a chessboard you don't have to first create the pieces and the board, you just maneuver them about to accomplish the goal.

To set up the inquisition one has to set up its pieces. To me it suggests more control than what he obviously has. I'm sure people are fond of their BF pulling the strings and taking the reins for them... me, I gotta say "Slow down, there buddy."

 

He does a lot, don't get me wrong. Just... the comparison's off.