Holy ****... off topic sorry, but people mentioned facebook a bit back... I just got an email from a friend who "invited me to like a page" for some stupid **** they did.
Seriously? Invite me to like your page? That sounds really needy and sad to me. I hate facebook, especially when it even popped in my email.
I gif spam so much. Gifs are the best.
I don't think anyone is saying he created the Inquisition, just made use of them extensively. Ie, when you set-up a chessboard you don't have to first create the pieces and the board, you just maneuver them about to accomplish the goal.
This. I don't think he anticipated the inquisition (*cue manic laughter* "No one expects the inquisition!!!") but first he tracked down the conduit and found it in Quizzy then suddenly, there are a bunch of talented, motivated people surrounding her determined to make a change... and Solas thinks, "Damn! I should use this!"
I would say the turning point is following the destruction of Haven, Solas thinks things have just fallen apart, he's missed Coryfish, he's just about to leave to track him down by himself. And then the crazy bunch start to sing... And Solas changes his mind... And like Moses, leads them (although they are not "his people", but they might be his pieces... for a while) to the refuge/fortress of Skyhold, to see what they can make of it.
To set up the inquisition one has to set up its pieces. To me it suggests more control than what he obviously has. I'm sure people are fond of their BF pulling the strings and taking the reins for them... me, I gotta say "Slow down, there buddy."
He does a lot, don't get me wrong. Just... the comparison's off.
I agree. I think he's masterful at taking advantage situations and thinking on his feet- which I think is truly admirable - but there is no way he has that much control. There are too many real, actual people in play. I also think depicting him as some sort of puppetmaster really undercuts the fact that you're supposed to see that he's built up these powerful relationships. As a friend - he tells you he will always really respect you. He says that because he wants you to know that - despite whatever awfulness that is to come - you were friends. You were important to him. (Obviously everyone knows about Lavellan and love yadda yadda).
I think the chess game is a more abstract view of his personality and how he thinks. He's willing to sacrafice an awful lot to reach his goals. He's not the mage. He's the pawn. He's not flashy, he's unassuming yet he's still the Dread Wolf. Still ****** **** up even as this mild mannered apostate hobo.
He's not the mage. He's the pawn. He's not flashy, he's unassuming yet he's still the Dread Wolf. Still ****** **** up even as this mild mannered apostate hobo.
But all good chess players know that every pawn is a potential queen...
To set up the inquisition one has to set up its pieces. To me it suggests more control than what he obviously has. I'm sure people are fond of their BF pulling the strings and taking the reins for them... me, I gotta say "Slow down, there buddy."
He does a lot, don't get me wrong. Just... the comparison's off.
I see it as him setting things in motion with Cornflakes, then observing. When he realizes just how high the threat level is after Haven, he sets it up so that the Herald finds Skyhold and becomes even more famous and more 'divinely protected', with the Inquisition getting a spot to cover. So, what, Solas drops the board off in a room, Corypheus comes in demanding a match, the Divine buys the pieces, and Cassandra and Leliana set them up? 
Having been seen as a god by the ancient elves, regardless of whether he is 'divine', Solas knows how to work that PR and build the myths that have become Andrastianism and...Dalishishm? 
What Avejaved said, basically.
But all good chess players know that every pawn is a potential queen...
That's my point. The most unassuming piece as the potential to be the most powerful piece on the board. "No real god need prove himself".
That's my point. The most unassuming piece as the potential to be the most powerful piece on the board. "No real god need prove himself".
Said "...a very careful apostate..."
I see it as him setting things in motion with Cornflakes, then observing. When he realizes just how high the threat level is after Haven, he sets it up so that the Herald finds Skyhold and becomes even more famous and more 'divinely protected', with the Inquisition getting a spot to cover. So, what, Solas drops the board off in a room, Corypheus comes in demanding a match, the Divine buys the pieces, and Cassandra and Leliana set them up?
Having been seen as a god by the ancient elves, regardless of whether he is 'divine', Solas knows how to work that PR and build the myths that have become Andrastianism and...Dalishishm?
What Avejaved said, basically.
I think Solas is a gambler if anything, placing bets and trying to manipulate others with his poker face. He makes a gamble (corypheus), he builds the pot, the gamble didn't pay off, because I took the pot instead, and Mythal just gave him some more chips.
Mmmh, I was under the impression that whatever reason he gave the orb to Cory for, it kinda went too far so he saw in the Inquisitor a way to repair that?
Are you guys saying he was planning that? How would he know that some random person would just stumble upon Cory and become part of all that mess?
I wouldn't say he sets the inquisition up. Cassandra and Leliana do that by starting recruiting Cullen/Josephine. Solas was probably just observing and decided to take advantage of it.. but he didn't set it up.
I think Solas is a gambler if anything, placing bets and trying to manipulate others with his poker face. He makes a gamble (corypheus), he builds the pot, the gamble didn't pay off, because I took the pot instead, and Mythal just gave him some more chips.
He is then - the world's worst ****** gambler. I'll save the Elves by locking up their gods! IT'LL BE FINE!!!
I'll get my power back!!! BY GIVING MY SUPER POWERFUL MAGIC ORB TO A BLIGHTED TEVINTER MAGISTER!!! IT'LL BE FINE!!
I'll get my orb back throught he power of friendship and the Inquisition!!! IT'LL BE FINE!!!
He really needs an intervention.
I think Solas is a gambler if anything, placing bets and trying to manipulate others with his poker face. He makes a gamble (corypheus), he builds the pot, the gamble didn't pay off, because I took the pot instead, and Mythal just gave him some more chips.
It would certainly fit in with the trickster archetype and his skill at cards against Blackwall. 
Since I'm the farthest you can get from a gambler, I honestly got this bizarre mental image of you stealing all of the pot/elfroot, and a disappointed Solas going home for Momma Mythal to give him some chips and pat him on the head.
The chess game is just another re-enactment of the Slow Arrow story, While the beast is distracted slaying the elves (or taking the other chess pieces) the arrow (pawn) just slips by unassuming until it takes you out. Quite brilliant really, the way both make the same point about Fen'harel.
What does him not being flashy have to do with his being a Mage? There were two central components left at the end of the game, iirc, a pawn and a Mage. And Solas, flashy or not, is a Mage. Your Inquisitor may also be a mage, but I don't thing anyone is going to make that assumption. I still believe The Inquisitor is the pawn. The last time we had this conversation, someone else phrased it in a way that was more succinct than anything I could think to say right now, but it made sense. Solas is the type to place others in the position to do something, especially if they are not perceived as capable (ie: the inquisitor is not thought by Corypheus as capable of handling the anchor and/or defeating him) and hanging out as a support in the background because Solas does NOT want that kind of attention.I agree. I think he's masterful at taking advantage situations and thinking on his feet- which I think is truly admirable - but there is no way he has that much control. There are too many real, actual people in play. I also think depicting him as some sort of puppetmaster really undercuts the fact that you're supposed to see that he's built up these powerful relationships. As a friend - he tells you he will always really respect you. He says that because he wants you to know that - despite whatever awfulness that is to come - you were friends. You were important to him. (Obviously everyone knows about Lavellan and love yadda yadda).
I think the chess game is a more abstract view of his personality and how he thinks. He's willing to sacrafice an awful lot to reach his goals. He's not the mage. He's the pawn. He's not flashy, he's unassuming yet he's still the Dread Wolf. Still ****** **** up even as this mild mannered apostate hobo.
Just popping in to say hi and I FEEL LIKE DEATH WARMED OVER. 8[
Anything interesting happen while I was gone for a...however long time? XD
(Romancing Bull. Omg. Best dom ever.)
He is then - the world's worst ****** gambler. I'll save the Elves by locking up their gods! IT'LL BE FINE!!!
I'll get my power back!!! BY GIVING MY SUPER POWERFUL MAGIC ORB TO A BLIGHTED TEVINTER MAGISTER!!! IT'LL BE FINE!!
I'll get my orb back throught he power of friendship and the Inquisition!!! IT'LL BE FINE!!!
He really needs an intervention.
EXACTLY That's another reason why the chess comparison didn't sit too well with me.
It would certainly fit in with the trickster archetype and his skill at cards against Blackwall.
Since I'm the farthest you can get from a gambler, I honestly got this bizarre mental image of you stealing all of the pot/elfroot, and a disappointed Solas going home for Momma Mythal to give him some chips and pat him on the head.
This really does work because I love playing cards, lol. Poker/Texas Hold 'em and Black Jack.
Poor Solas.
Anyone having trouble doing the Under Her Skin quest in Val Royeaux...everytime I try to enter the house I'm supposed to the game just crashes.
And in similar fashion, I compare the Creators to Classical Pantheon of the Greeks and Romans because I think they fit much better than the Abrahamic God.
They're an incredibly messed up 'family' of gods, each with their own spheres of influence. While they are not omnipresent, they do have shapeshifting and magical powers. They are extremely powerful, and they are arseholes. Worship of the Creators has even been replaced, through time, entropy, and occasional hectic violence, with worship of the Abrahamic God's counterpart, the Maker. The Maker is portrayed as so untouchable that he's not even paying attention to Thedas anymore. Andrastianism is about trying to please the unfathomable, impossibly high up father figure.
I'm not sure where I fall on the Fen'harel aspect. I love the idea of the gods being 'something we haven't seen before', and Solas didn't just make that one up. But I also love Solas's stories of the village and learning to wander the Fade. Then again, if the Fade wasn't in place in the early days of the Creators, that opens up a whole new can of worms.
The biggest suggestion to me of Solas being an elf that joined with Fen'harel is the Tarot cards. The Hierophant portrays a small white wolf and Solas, which is kinda cutesy. But it's the Tower card, with the shadowy, roiling mass of Fen'harel looming over and threatening to consume the lonely, wandering Solas, that makes me think that. Maybe it's just symbolizing the duty of the Dread Wolf overshadowing everything in his life.
Also, why would Solas point Leliana out to an actual ruined village? The fact that the ruins are still there suggests it was more recent than 8000 years. I mean, unless they were stone, and even then. We don't have many cities from 6000BC left.
I dunno, basically.
Yes, I fully agree, they represent these sorts of mythologies (it's not called "pantheon" for no reason). With a good amount of Northern mythology thrown in, obviously. But there has not been a living person "Gaia" (as far as I know they did not even bother to humanize her mother... or father... thing... deity "Chaos"). It is a personification of the Earth/life. And I very much like that concept, it is more tangible than the "moral entity" of the Abrahamic God, but it's still not people/humans. But that is pretty hard to show their "nature" in a movie or statue ("And here you see a statue of Apoll, the god of light, music, and ...." - "But there's nothing there" - "Yes, well, how do carve 'light' in stone?"), so it always comes down to people and human or animal bodies. Sure, I did not live back in the days when the old Greek and Romans still believed in these gods but I cannot imagine they really expected Zeus to be a person, bound to a human body.
I dunno either. It's mostly a gut feeling and a discontent with the "magical" notion of immortality of a physical body that I do not like. And I just think there has been a Solas and at some point he merged with Fen'harel. But the developers did well on allowing both theories and not planting any evidence whatsoever. Every piece of information can be twisted and used both ways. I simply do not like not to acknowledge just that, that it could be anything. There is no right or wrong (just yet, at least), in the end it might be something different entirely. If anything at all I think he is "something we haven't seen before". I mean, Abelas is an ancient elf, no? And he's "less" than a god, he's a slave to a god. So the gods are something different from the simple ancient elves.
What does him not being flashy have to do with his being a Mage? There were two central components left at the end of the game, iirc, a pawn and a Mage. And Solas, flashy or not, is a Mage. Your Inquisitor may also be a mage, but I don't thing anyone is going to make that assumption. I still believe The Inquisitor is the pawn. The last time we had this conversation, someone else phrased it in a way that was more succinct than anything I could think to say right now, but it made sense. Solas is the type to place others in the position to do something, especially if they are not perceived as capable (ie: the inquisitor is not thought by Corypheus as capable of handling the anchor and/or defeating him) and hanging out as a support in the background because Solas does NOT want that kind of attention.
Edit: which is exactly what I was saying before when I said maybe Solas should have been the Inquisitor but he would never have taken that position. Too much attention, so he orchestrates someone else getting the position, they get the attention... The same way the pawn was getting Iron Bull's attention in the chess game, and Solas is free to continue being background support.
I don't want to belabor it because where we disagree seems to be in our read of the character - as I said I think the chess game is more an abstract view of how he thinks/works in general. I don't think it's an analogy of the Inquisition. Again, that's just my interpretation of it.
Or as FemShep and her magnificent sound bug would put it "I CAN UUUUSE THIS!"Okay, well I didn't mean set up so much as I meant utilized, but the point remains the same. Solas took advantage of the situation, as is Solas's custom. It's not only words he doesn't waste. It's also opportunities. Unless, of course, you're Lavellan...
Edit: but I believe you are correct. There is a certain expression he makes when he sees everyone gathering around the Inquisitor that suggests "I can use this..."
EXACTLY
You have a point about the gambling, but chess is after all the ultimate metaphor for making sacrifices in cold blood. You throw away even a queen if necessary as long as you protect the king. There are no friends or love in chess. I assume that is why they picked this metaphor.
I think Solas is a gambler if anything, placing bets and trying to manipulate others with his poker face. He makes a gamble (corypheus), he builds the pot, the gamble didn't pay off, because I took the pot instead, and Mythal just gave him some more chips.
Borrowing from mom is when you know you've hit rock bottom!
I think we are not taking into account the casuality factor. Solas screws up big time by giving the orb to Coriffeuse, the Inquisitor makes it worse by catching that shiny ball (ahem no double meaning here ahem) and the way events play out happen to please everyone. Cassandra and Leliana need a powerful reason to build the Inquisition and they got the breach. Solas needs a powerful organization to tackle Corypheus and he's got the Inquisition and took it to the next level by giving them Skyhold. Of course all them had some agency in it, but randomness going their way also played a big part. And above all let's not forget Mother Giselle, the one who saw and took the chance to push the Inquisition forward when it was on the verge of disappearing.
I think this whole chain of events fits well with Flemeth's musing of 'is it chance, or is it fate?'. There are a lot of things in Dragon Age that are left ambiguous as to whether or not there's some sort of 'fate' moving events forward, or if it is random chaos and everyone so far has been extremely lucky.
You have a point about the gambling, but chess is after all the ultimate metaphor for making sacrifices in cold blood. You throw away even a queen if necessary as long as you protect the king. There are no friends or love in chess. I assume that is why they picked this metaphor.
It works well for him, when we're talking specifically about his willingness to sacrifice for the end goal, just not as well for his role in the inquisition, is all.
In other words, I can see the merit behind the comparison, I just think the application was too heavy handed.
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