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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#69451
Caddius

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Yes, I fully agree, they represent these sorts of mythologies (it's not called "pantheon" for no reason). With a good amount of Northern mythology thrown in, obviously. But there has not been a living person "Gaia" (as far as I know they did not even bother to humanize her mother... or father... thing... deity "Chaos"). It is a personification of the Earth/life. And I very much like that concept, it is more tangible than the "moral entity" of the Abrahamic God, but it's still not people/humans. But that is pretty hard to show their "nature" in a movie or statue ("And here you see a statue of Apoll, the god of light, music, and ...." - "But there's nothing there" - "Yes, well, how do carve 'light' in stone?"), so it always comes down to people and human or animal bodies. Sure, I did not live back in the days when the old Greek and Romans still believed in these gods but I cannot imagine they really expected Zeus to be a person, bound to a human body.

I dunno either. It's mostly a gut feeling and a discontent with the "magical" notion of immortality of a physical body that I do not like. And I just think there has been a Solas and at some point he merged with Fen'harel. But the developers did well on allowing both theories and not planting any evidence whatsoever. Every piece of information can be twisted and used both ways. I simply do not like not to acknowledge just that, that it could be anything. There is no right or wrong (just yet, at least), in the end it might be something different entirely. If anything at all I think he is "something we haven't seen before". I mean, Abelas is an ancient elf, no? And he's "less" than a god, he's a slave to a god. So the gods are something different from the simple ancient elves.
 

The Greeks bickered long and hard about the nature of their own gods. :) Socrates even argued that the stories about the gods were misrepresenting them, trying to make them more flawed to make them more palatable, when they went too far and made them evil. (Ahem. Zeus's whole bird-rapist thing.)

The way I see elven pantheon, which is admittedly based on a lot of assumptions, because we don't have much to work with:

The Sun and the Earth come together: They are personifications of primordial forces. The Earth is mother, nurturing, creating trees and animals. The Sun is father, harsh, authoritative, jealous, burning. (Could this tie in with the elves' night vision? Just a thought.)

They have a son, Elgar'nan. Elgar'nan is not born the personification of vengeance, he adopts the mantle of God of Vengeance when he overthrows the Sun in vengeance for hurting the Earth.

Mythal is born from the ocean, mirroring one of the origin stories about Aphrodite, namely, sea-foam after Cronus castrated his father, the Sky Ouranos. (In some versions, she somehow arises from the separated...flesh.  :blink: )

These first two gods form a couple that creates the 'family' of Creators. They are all people, they just have mantles, jobs, to do. Things their worshipers associate them with. As leaders, Mythal and Elgar'nan handle crime and punishment. However, Elgar'nan is aware that he has a temper problem, so he lets Mythal decide whether or not the person is guilty, and then he'll work out his anger issues on them.

Now that I'm thinking more on this, I think I'm for the 'Gods as People but with Superpowers', but also on the 'The Gods are more than just ancient elven Dreamers.' If that makes sense. :)

It's interesting how the modern version of Zeus and The Illiad and the rest includes the Justice League and the Avengers.  :D


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#69452
Colonelkillabee

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Borrowing from mom is when you know you've hit rock bottom! 

ROFL :lol: And that, he did. That he did. But he promises, he's gonna turn it all around this time! Promise!

 

For the record, I hope he does, lol.


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#69453
Elven_Glory

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I don't want to belabor it because where we disagree seems to be in our read of the character - as I said I think the chess game is more an abstract view of how he thinks/works in general. I don't think it's an analogy of the Inquisition. Again, that's just my interpretation of it.


I think this is another case where, as per usual, we agree on mostly everything except for small points. I don't believe the chess game is direct foreshadowing or anything, I agree that it is indicative of his mentality more so than directly relating to the inquisitor's journey, the only thing I disagree on is which piece Solas would be were the entire Inquisition an actual chess game as opposed to a metaphorical one, and specifically if it were THAT chess game. In the grand scheme of things, it probably doesn't matter which piece he is because it would still be a good description of the way he thinks and would otherwise change very little.
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#69454
Vorathrad

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Yes, I fully agree, they represent these sorts of mythologies (it's not called "pantheon" for no reason). With a good amount of Northern mythology thrown in, obviously. But there has not been a living person "Gaia" (as far as I know they did not even bother to humanize her mother... or father... thing... deity "Chaos"). It is a personification of the Earth/life. And I very much like that concept, it is more tangible than the "moral entity" of the Abrahamic God, but it's still not people/humans. But that is pretty hard to show their "nature" in a movie or statue ("And here you see a statue of Apoll, the god of light, music, and ...." - "But there's nothing there" - "Yes, well, how do carve 'light' in stone?"), so it always comes down to people and human or animal bodies. Sure, I did not live back in the days when the old Greek and Romans still believed in these gods but I cannot imagine they really expected Zeus to be a person, bound to a human body.
I dunno either. It's mostly a gut feeling and a discontent with the "magical" notion of immortality of a physical body that I do not like. And I just think there has been a Solas and at some point he merged with Fen'harel. But the developers did well on allowing both theories and not planting any evidence whatsoever. Every piece of information can be twisted and used both ways. I simply do not like not to acknowledge just that, that it could be anything. There is no right or wrong (just yet, at least), in the end it might be something different entirely. If anything at all I think he is "something we haven't seen before". I mean, Abelas is an ancient elf, no? And he's "less" than a god, he's a slave to a god. So the gods are something different from the simple ancient elves.

I agree Greek gods were not "people". Take the story of Zeus and Semele (I think it was Semele...) where Hera persuades her to ask Zeus to show her his true form. Semele request Zeus to do so, and when he obliges she is killed because she can't stand his true presence.

So maybe elven gods were forces of nature, spirits or something in between, that could take human or animal form. I like that the writers left it vague and it will probably remain that way (or not... but I don't think they will be showing all their cards in the immediate future)
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#69455
BoscoBread

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ROFL :lol: And that, he did. That he did. But he promises, he's gonna turn it all around this time! Promise!

 

For the record, I hope he does, lol.

Lord me too.  So as a friendmanced Solas...mancer??? Colonel, what's your hope for the end with Solas.  You obviously know the consensus around here with a romanced Solas.



#69456
Mims

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It is hard to know how closely one should read into the chess match, since it is a reference to an actual chess match. Much like Solas's movie quote discussions with Cole, it kind of borders on breaking the fourth wall a bit. I'm sure they picked it intentionally because it seems like the sort of thing Solas would do, but I don't doubt they were also like: 'Ok, what is the coolest chess match that was ever played?' They googled, and that's what they came up with. 


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#69457
Maria13

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It is hard to know how closely one should read into the chess match, since it is a reference to an actual chess match. Much like Solas's movie quote discussions with Cole, it kind of borders on breaking the fourth wall a bit. I'm sure they picked it intentionally because it seems like the sort of thing Solas would do, but I don't doubt they were also like: 'Ok, what is the coolest chess match that was ever played?' They googled, and that's what they came up with. 

 

Yes, but they needed to find a match with a play style that would suit his personality (and of course that of IB) "If Solas played chess, how would he play?" So I don't think its wrong to read quite a bit about him into the match/play style chosen.



#69458
Caddius

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It is hard to know how closely one should read into the chess match, since it is a reference to an actual chess match. Much like Solas's movie quote discussions with Cole, it kind of borders on breaking the fourth wall a bit. I'm sure they picked it intentionally because it seems like the sort of thing Solas would do, but I don't doubt they were also like: 'Ok, what is the coolest chess match that was ever played?' They googled, and that's what they came up with. 

I can very easily picture Weekes Googling famous chess matches, and then starting to shout excitedly and flail when he realizes how well that particular match-up went with Bull and Solas's personalities and goals. :)


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#69459
Colonelkillabee

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Lord me too.  So as a friendmanced Solas...mancer??? Colonel, what's your hope for the end with Solas.  You obviously know the consensus around here with a romanced Solas.

My hope is simply that I don't have to kill him. The rest we can figure out later, perhaps over a game of diamond back and a drink, so long as it isn't tea.

 

Ideally, Solas, god or not, becomes the leader the Dalish need to unite their people and maybe even create a new Arlathan, somewhere where Orlesian shitheads won't bother them..


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#69460
Elven_Glory

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It is hard to know how closely one should read into the chess match, since it is a reference to an actual chess match. Much like Solas's movie quote discussions with Cole, it kind of borders on breaking the fourth wall a bit. I'm sure they picked it intentionally because it seems like the sort of thing Solas would do, but I don't doubt they were also like: 'Ok, what is the coolest chess match that was ever played?' They googled, and that's what they came up with.


I don't doubt that the use of that specific game was deliberate. I figured they must have googled " chess games where pawn wins game."

#69461
BoscoBread

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My hope is simply that I don't have to kill him. The rest we can figure out later, perhaps over a game of diamond back and a drink, so long as it isn't tea.

 

Ideally, Solas, god or not, becomes the leader the Dalish need to unite their people and maybe even create a new Arlathan, somewhere where Orlesian shitheads won't bother them..

I think this a paradise that all people can appreciate. Or can we just wall off Orlais.  Put them in a dumpster?



#69462
Siha

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It works well for him, when we're talking specifically about his willingness to sacrifice for the end goal, just not as well for his role in the inquisition, is all.

 

Yeah, well... there's some really bad chess players out there, you know? ;)

Sacrificing your queen does not necessarily mean you win. You might just end up with your king in direct line of a tower thinking "oh crap".

As I said, I agree you have a point. But chess just works so much better when you wish to make a point. And I don't think BioWare wanted to tell us "See, he's basically just bluffing".



#69463
Rabbitonfire

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I feel like I'm the only one to be excited to murder kill him. 


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#69464
Vorathrad

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If it's of any help, my bf loves chess and when he watched the game on YouTube, he said the moves were a bit weird and too risky. He didn't recognize it as any famous game, but he's not that into chess history. He said the opening is a classic one but I can't remember which (I'm like the ultimate chess derp, sorry)

Edit to add: I asked and it's King's Gambit, Solas says so as well.

#69465
The Oracle

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The opening is called Kings Gambit. It's a well known sequence for starting a chess game.


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#69466
Caddius

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My hope is simply that I don't have to kill him. The rest we can figure out later, perhaps over a game of diamond back and a drink, so long as it isn't tea.

 

Ideally, Solas, god or not, becomes the leader the Dalish need to unite their people and maybe even create a new Arlathan, somewhere where Orlesian shitheads won't bother them..

Same here.

You know what the Dales being granted reminds me of?

Total War games.

Namely, fighting alongside your weird neighbors against the Byzantine Empire, who as always has blobbed all over the place and probably summoned the Mongol Horde by breaking into the Golden Vatican or something.  :rolleyes: While you kick their asses back to Greece, your weird allies are almost completely wiped out. So after the Byzies are dealt with, you drag your little elf buddy into another war against an independent province. You let them take the city, but only after lacing the village with plague and scorching most of the countryside, so that it'll take decades for them to grow. Meanwhile, you turn your attention to the new war front against England in Aquitaine. Once France is consolidated and you've got no other wars going on, you take the territory that the elves have finally managed to make prosperous.

Basically saving the Dales for later. That comparison got away with me like usual.  :lol:



#69467
Mims

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I suppose when I listen to the chess match dialogues, I don't tend to focus so much on Solas. The conversation is tied to Bull and his end choice. I feel like the match is less to show off how smart and cunning Solas is, but to show that Bull is no dummy. This is probably one of the reasons why Solas disliked him blindly following the Qun, when he clearly has the potential to do so much more. 

 

 

I feel like I'm the only one to be excited to murder kill him. 

 

I think there should absolutely be the option to kill him. Or, if they need him for plot stuff ala Morrigan, muck with his plans in some capacity. The player shouldn't be forced to rebuild the elven empire [or whatever Solas wants]. There are people angry with him, and those feelings are just as valid as those who see him as a friend or lover. 


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#69468
Colonelkillabee

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Yeah, well... there's some really bad chess players out there, you know? ;)

Sacrificing your queen does not necessarily mean you win. You might just end up with your king in direct line of a tower thinking "oh crap".

As I said, I agree you have a point. But chess just works so much better when you wish to make a point. And I don't think BioWare wanted to tell us "See, he's basically just bluffing".

 

Probably not, but LOL that's rather close to what he's doing :lol: But yea, I get your point.

 

I think this a paradise that all people can appreciate. Or can we just wall off Orlais.  Put them in a dumpster?

 

I'm sure most would agree in this thread. The chuckleheads outside ride chevalier's balls, but they don't get a say ;)

 

 

I feel like I'm the only one to be excited to murder kill him. 

 

Excited... no but I definitely can appreciate the drama that would create, so I might do it sometimes. Not my canon run though, unless something changes about him enough to warrant it.



#69469
BoscoBread

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I feel like I'm the only one to be excited to murder kill him. 

No. You are not. I absolutely think that should be an option. Hell I romanced Anders and stabbed him in the back(though I view that as more a mercy killing than a punishment). 


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#69470
Maria13

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I think there should absolutely be the option to kill him. Or, if they need him for plot stuff ala Morrigan, muck with his plans in some capacity. The player shouldn't be forced to rebuild the elven empire [or whatever Solas wants]. There are people angry with him, and those feelings are just as valid as those who see him as a friend or lover. 

 

Ugh, I loathed the very idea of the Darkspawn Chronicles... Just no.



#69471
Avejajed

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If Solas should die (or if we should be given the option to kill him] depends entirely on what he's gonna do now.

Unless you think he should die for giving his orb to Cor which I think depends on details we don't have.

#69472
Mims

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Mass Effect spoilers;

 

Spoiler


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#69473
Mims

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Ugh, I loathed the very idea of the Darkspawn Chronicles... Just no.

 

I don't really count Darkspawn Chronicles as a player option, since that's a completely alternate universe. Although the sadist in me does enjoy crazy scenarios like that. 



#69474
BoscoBread

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Mass Effect spoilers;

 

Spoiler

I COULDNT DO IT.  I tried but he's like 'Seashells...' and i'm like "NOOOOO MORDIN HUGS!' 



#69475
Rabbitonfire

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I don't really count Darkspawn Chronicles as a player option, since that's a completely alternate universe. Although the sadist in me does enjoy crazy scenarios like that. 

The choices alistair made was funny-bad. 


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