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[Colonelkillabee]

Are you actually Andrastian? Or are you saying it to be ironic aha

 

Edit: I meant do you prefer choosing the Chantry beliefs over others...^{not that you actually believe it...}

I'm like Dorian, in that I am Andrastian, but I don't sign on with the institution of selling faith. So no support of the chantries from me. I don't dismiss the possibility of elven or other gods though, which would pretty much make me a heretic. I see the study of other gods, magic etc as a science of DA. And in both real life and in game, I see science as a way to better understand god and his creations.

 

If anything's going to bring you understanding of the universe, it'd be the study of higher beings, spirits and otherwise.

[Mims]

It is infuriating how many puzzle pieces we've got, but nothing to quite link them together. We know that:

 

- Ancient elves had contact with a blight like phenomenon

- The black city was tainted before the Magisters got there

- Dragon's blood is important and cultivating it seems to be connected to Mythal's plans, as evidenced by the comics. Possibly because dragons are naturally resistant to the blight? 

- The Wardens likely aren't helping by killing the archdemons

- The veil has not always existed, and entities that can remember a time without it remember it fondly. We have no idea when it was created.

- There are the same amount of trapped elven gods as there are suspected old gods, and various other connections between the two groups. 

- Mythal's betrayal effected all of Thedas

- If you remove the 'song', Darkspawn regain sentience.

 

It seems like everything has something to do with the blight. But I don't know if that's just because it is all we can see, or because it actually is. 

[nikki-tikki]

I'm like Dorian, in that I am Andrastian, but I don't sign on with the institution of selling faith. So no support of the chantries from me. I don't dismiss the possibility of elven or other gods though, which would pretty much make me a heretic. I see the study of other gods, magic etc as a science of DA. And in both real life and in game, I see science as a way to better understand god and his creations.

 

If anything's going to bring you understanding of the universe, it'd be the study of higher beings, spirits and otherwise.

 

I was full Andrastian throughout DAO and DA2 but when Corypheus said that the throne in the black city was empty, my whole view on their spiritual world changed. ^{I was so disappointed}

 

Then Solas came and now I'm pretty sure the elven gods are a thing. Just gunna wait and see though. I'm excited to see how everything ties together.

[nikki-tikki]

- The veil has not always existed, and entities that can remember a time without it remember it fondly. We have no idea when it was created.

 

The one dialogue with Solas about the veil, and he gets enraged for a few seconds...definitely wasn't a thing in his time. 

[Mims]

The one dialogue with Solas about the veil, and he gets enraged for a few seconds...definitely wasn't a thing in his time. 

 

Hard to pinpoint what his 'time' is though, being immortal. I am assuming he probably lived long before Arlathan. We have relics of the ancient elves that strengthen the veil, so it did at one point exist during the elven empire.

 

[Unless he is lying about the purpose of the artifacts, or he himself is the one who created them. Which could easily be the case.]  

[BoscoBread]

The Void is where the Forgotten Ones lived, according to Andruil's new codex.  I don't think spirits/demons go there, which is why I think it's where the Black City is located in the real world, because spirits and demons don't go to the Black City, even in the Fade.  It may be in the center of the planet, but I don't think it's dwarven, because I think it's more of a separate realm of reality than simply "underground".  That place "beyond the Fade" that Justice says spirits believe exists, but have never seen.

 

The Old Gods are connected to the taint, and they are heavily hinted to be either the Forgotten Ones or the Creators, so we're likely looking at elves either way.  Perhaps they didn't create the taint, but whoever the Old Gods are, they are the masters of the Blight.  If they didn't create it, but merely weaponized it, I think the Blight may be inherent to Thedas' cosmology, maybe a force of magic entropy.  (Which might explain why nothing from the Fade, such as spirits, exist there, and why it would be such a terrible weapon to a race like the ancient elves who were magical in nature.)

 

I agree with you on the Blight and it just being inherent to Thedas. While I would agree that the elves - or any powerful mage/organization(yello wardens) - have attempted to master it, I think it's important that it remains this great equalizer. It's a force of nature, so to speak, and woe betide the man who attempts to master it. 

[nikki-tikki]

[Unless he is lying about the purpose of the artifacts, or he himself is the one who created them. Which could easily be the case.]  

 

I strongly think he is lying. It'd be really easy for him to skew the truth about it, goes along the "saw it in the fade" excuses I think. 

 

But i'm not a lore-god. I leave all the intelligent debates up to you guys.

[dragondreamer]

Opened World of Thedas, and it landed on this

 

The Chant on the Void

 

All that the Maker has wrought is in His hand

Beloved and precious to Him.

Where the Maker has turned His face away,

Is a Void in all things;

In the world, in the Fade,

In the hearts and minds of men.

 

Passing out of the world, in that Void shall they wander;

O unrepentant, faithless, treacherous,

They who are judged and found wanting

Shall know forever the loss of the Maker's love.

Only Our Lady shall weep for them.

 

-Threnodies 12:5

 

 

Y'know, it's funny how the concept of the Void is found in both Andrastianism and elven mythologies.  The Golden/Black City is one thing, since that's viewable from the Fade, there's different cultural views on what it is...  But who told the humans about the Void?

 

Again, we have the Void as something anti-creation.

[BoscoBread]

I strongly think he is lying. It'd be really easy for him to skew the truth about it, goes along the "saw it in the fade" excuses I think. 

 

But i'm not a lore-god. I leave all the intelligent debates up to you guys.

I don't think he's lying - mostly because he lies(unless we are stretching this to mean - lie by omission) about so little and the one time we KNOW he does he gets incredibly flustered.  Itthink the artifacts work exactly as intended given the info. from his once broken quest.  He might not be saying EVERYTHING they can do, but I think they do support/measure the veil.  I would also believe he invented them.

[Mims]

I strongly think he is lying. It'd be really easy for him to skew the truth about it, goes along the "saw it in the fade" excuses I think. 

 

But i'm not a lore-god. I leave all the intelligent debates up to you guys.

 

He certainly could be! It is very hard to tell. A theory, if he is lying, is that the veil is part of what might be keeping the elven gods trapped in the fade. If he's the creator of those orb things, he might have placed them in specific spots so make sure the wall stayed up while he slept.

 

I don't think the orbs do the opposite of what Solas says them to [which would be weakening the veil], as they do appear to stop the fade-rifts from happening. 

[Maria13]

I agree with you on the Blight and it just being inherent to Thedas. While I would agree that the elves - or any powerful mage/organization(yello wardens) - have attempted to master it, I think it's important that it remains this great equalizer. It's a force of nature, so to speak, and woe betide the man who attempts to master it. 

 

A vaccination programme would be my most favoured approach....

[Colonelkillabee]

I was full Andrastian throughout DAO and DA2 but when Corypheus said that the throne in the black city was empty, my whole view on their spiritual world changed. ^{I was so disappointed}

 

Then Solas came and now I'm pretty sure the elven gods are a thing. Just gunna wait and see though. I'm excited to see how everything ties together.

Lol I went the opposite way, but it has to do with my character more than anything else.

 

My warden wasn't andrastian at all and hated everything chantry related. Obviously he and lels didnt get along too well.

Hawke actually was andrastian for me but he was the same way as my inquisitor in that he hated the chantry. Though my inquisitor doesn't really "hate" them, just utterly disdainful.

[Maria13]

I strongly think he is lying. It'd be really easy for him to skew the truth about it, goes along the "saw it in the fade" excuses I think. 

 

But i'm not a lore-god. I leave all the intelligent debates up to you guys.

 

I don't think he lies, he dodges the truth (rather ineptly, actually), and bends it but lying?  You have to have certain talents to lie effectively, a certain arrogance, I don't think he has that...

[Colonelkillabee]

Opened World of Thedas, and it landed on this

 

 

Y'know, it's funny how the concept of the Void is found in both Andrastianism and elven mythologies.  The Golden/Black City is one thing, since that's viewable from the Fade, there's different cultural views on what it is...  But who told the humans about the Void?

 

Again, we have the Void as something anti-creation.

Y'know, that text actually sounds like it suggests what I said earlier about the void, fade and world being connected. They call the void where the maker turned his back on us, which is beyond the fade in the sky, suggested by "passing out of the world to the void beyond". And with others saying the void is underground... and the red lyrium appearing there when it should have come from the fade if tainted (and we see it in the fade, actually)...

[Mims]

I doubt the existence of the elven gods means that there is no Maker. Solas is not omnipotent, and Cole mentions something 'very far off' when talking about the Maker. So there may very well be something that sparked life into Thedas. The elven gods are not attributed with creating life. They essentially overpowered their forebears, who are described as Elgar'nan's parents. 

 

In a sense, it is kind of like you have a tier of godlike beings. You have the Maker, who is what one would think of as a traditional 'all powerful, all knowing' sort of god. And then you have the elven gods, who are anything from super-powered mages to norse/greek gods. They are something, but if the Maker is real, they aren't on that level of existence. 

 

Although we likely will never know if the Maker is real or not, as Bioware has said they want that to be an element of faith in the series. 

[nikki-tikki]

I don't think he's lying - mostly because he lies(unless we are stretching this to mean - lie by omission) about so little and the one time we KNOW he does he gets incredibly flustered.  Itthink the artifacts work exactly as intended given the info. from his once broken quest.  He might not be saying EVERYTHING they can do, but I think they do support/measure the veil.  I would also believe he invented them.

 

I never did his quest because it was broken...but hopefully this time around. 

 

One question though, is the Warden's quest something to be encouraged? If the theory that killing off the archdemons is bad in the long run, what would be the ideal course of action? 

 

I just want the Hero of Fereldan to be justified as a hero...

[BoscoBread]

I was full Andrastian throughout DAO and DA2 but when Corypheus said that the throne in the black city was empty, my whole view on their spiritual world changed. ^{I was so disappointed}

 

Then Solas came and now I'm pretty sure the elven gods are a thing. Just gunna wait and see though. I'm excited to see how everything ties together.

My Warden - Lady Cousland was religious, but only really out of habit due to being raised as nobility.  DA2 - I don't know - I didn't flesh out Hawke that well because everything about that game made me cranky. She was a person.

 

Lavellan was deeply atheist.  Even when she met Mythal she was still like 'There are no gods.  You're just a crazy lady screaming at me'.  She believed she was Mythal and Mythal existed and was terrifyingly powerful but that's just magic.

[Mims]

 

I just want the Hero of Fereldan to be justified as a hero...

 

I'd say they are a hero regardless. Solas might not like the plan, but you can't exactly just chill out and let an archdemon ravage the countryside. They did the best with what they had available. And if you did the dark ritual, you technically did do as Mythal was planning. You killed the archdemon, and trapped the purified soul. 

[BoscoBread]

I never did his quest because it was broken...but hopefully this time around. 

 

One question though, is the Warden's quest something to be encouraged? If the theory that killing off the archdemons is bad in the long run, what would be the ideal course of action? 

 

I just want the Hero of Fereldan to be justified as a hero...

Why can't they be?  The HoF not only stopped the blight but did a bunch of other amazing things - unless you ran through you game murder knifing everybody in sight.  The wardens didn't make them a hero...their actions did. 

[Colonelkillabee]

I never did his quest because it was broken...but hopefully this time around. 

 

One question though, is the Warden's quest something to be encouraged? If the theory that killing off the archdemons is bad in the long run, what would be the ideal course of action? 

 

I just want the Hero of Fereldan to be justified as a hero...

The ideal course of action is to do what you can do right here right now. Even if killing the old gods is bad in the long run, it's not like you have a choice. Your king is in check, and you have to sacrifice a piece to save him, even if it means you may lose later.

 

The wardens are ignorant, but they can't help that, they're only mortals.

[dragondreamer]

I agree with you on the Blight and it just being inherent to Thedas. While I would agree that the elves - or any powerful mage/organization(yello wardens) - have attempted to master it, I think it's important that it remains this great equalizer. It's a force of nature, so to speak, and woe betide the man who attempts to master it. 

 

Yeah, I actually hesitated to use the word "master", because I think they may have simply created a pandora's box of problems trying to utilize it into a real-world power.  But I think they command it as much as anyone can.  If power from the Fade, which is deemed magic, is where creation flows from, then the Void could be seen as the realm of the opposite force.  It's like Avernus described the taint, as something alien to demons, but it has its own power.  That's what the darkspawn emissaries are drawing from for their "magic". 

 

If the elven Creators roamed and utilized the Fade, then the Forgotten Ones may have made the Void their own place of power. 

 

On a separate note, there's a bit in the WoT that suggests that the elven gods were locked away well before the arrival of humans:

 

He sealed the gods away in their respective realms, leaving the elves to fend for themselves.  It was then that the humans came, and, later under Tevinter, the great elven city of Arlathan fell.

 

[flabbadence]

I never did his quest because it was broken...but hopefully this time around. 

 

One question though, is the Warden's quest something to be encouraged? If the theory that killing off the archdemons is bad in the long run, what would be the ideal course of action? 

 

I just want the Hero of Fereldan to be justified as a hero...

 

I think they should keep on digging for archdemons actually. But when they find one, instead of killing it instantly, they should seal it somewhere the darkspawn can't reach (though where indeed) and have non-Wardens (so they can't be influenced by the Calling) study it. A nearly impossible feat, but the worst thing that could happen if things go awry is another Blight, which would have happened anyway.

[nikki-tikki]

I think they should keep on digging for archdemons actually. But when they find one, instead of killing it instantly, they should seal it somewhere the darkspawn can't reach (though where indeed) and have non-Wardens (so they can't be influenced by the Calling) study it

 

Where's Dragonreach when you need it.

 

Are all old gods dragons?

 

I really need to read up all the gods theories again...

[Ajna]

So the void is the shadow fade... Duality again.

[flabbadence]

Where's Dragonreach when you need it.

 

Are all old gods dragons?

 

I really need to read up all the gods theories again...

 

I don't know if they're the Old Gods really. But Flemeth considered them important enough that she taught Morrigan the Dark Ritual to cleanse and preserve an archdemon's soul. That has to count for something.