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[jellobell]

Argh.. I really can't stand Sera. As some of you people said, to me she is just stupid. Exactly, a woman with the brain of a bratty 12 yo child, who doesn't want to grow up and doesn't accept views different from hers.

I wouldn't say she's "stupid". She's emotionally immature, yes. She also hasn't had the luxury of a formal education like pretty much every other member of the inner circle did. She's basically a street kid who's had to raise herself for the most part. But aside from all that, she's very insightful. She knows how people think, and how the average person will respond to the Inquisitor (thus trying to make them less intimidating with the pranks). She's also one of the few people to notice Solas and the Inquisitor's relationship (which seems to have been kept very private), simply based on how Lavellan looks at him.

 

I agree that she's not very good at accepting different points of view, but her actions don't spring from malice but from fear. Her greatest fear is "the nothing", the possibility that this might be all that there is. She's suffering from some serious existential dread, and thinking about that kind of thing too much just makes it worse. So for Sera, living in the moment and not thinking too hard is her coping mechanism.

 

That's why I can't be too harsh on her for her post-mythal freakout. That entire chain of events just pushed so many buttons for her, that I think she was having a bit of a panic attack. As she said, if she accepts that the elven gods are real, then that brings the existence of the Maker into question. And if there's no Maker, then there's no afterlife, and this is all there is, which is her greatest fear. 

 

I find that Sera's a lot like Carver. I loathed Carver for the first little bit of DA2, but he came out being one of my favourite characters in the entire game. He's deeply flawed, but in such a well-written way. I believe they were written by the same person, too.

 

My only gripe with Vivienne is that like Sera, I think her being in the inquisition is kind of forced. I don't even know what she does there. She doesn't give you any wartable operations either. Beyond being a really really boss mage, she's just kinda there, which is why I don't use her much.

Actually, I found Viv to be one of the more helpful members of the Inquisition, in terms of what she brought to it. She has several war table missions where she tips Josie off to matters of political importance. A lot of her friendship scenes also have her advising the Inquisitor about political matters, and how they should position themselves. I found her dialogue on how the Inquisitor should make themselves politically indispensable by any means necessary (because she's worried about them being betrayed from within like Andraste was) rather sweet, in a disturbingly cutthroat kind of way. And then, after you finish her personal quest, she brings two of Bastien's relatives who are influential with the council of Heralds to Skyhold in order to meet the Inquisitor and increase the Inquisition's political consequence. All in all, a friendly Vivienne is extremely helpful.

[Colonelkillabee]

There's an entire series of missions and some of them branch.  There's rumours, intrigue and red lyrium smuggling.  Without them I think that Viv probably would've quit the Inquisition.  I need something to get my approval up with her.

Ah K, I thought it was just the one mission. Are you sure those are really hers, or did they just become available after that? Like is it because of her connections that you find about these things, because lyrium smuggling comes up at least several times.

 

 

Ah, that furniture scene. I got that with my Lavellan and tbh I found it funny. xD

 

I'm with you regarding Vivienne. In the grand scheme of things, I don't even know why she's there. :/ Maybe to provide a different view on the whole mage thing but other than that... meh. She was practically my benchwarmer, which is a pity because I really wanted to like her.

 

If I got that scene, I'd punish her by making her pair with Solas. He's the only one that puts her in her place I think. Him and the avvar.

[Illyria]

Ah K, I thought it was just the one mission. Are you sure those are really hers, or did they just become available after that? Like is it because of her connections that you find about these things, because lyrium smuggling comes up at least several times.

 

 

All of the missions start with the Truth or Dare name, they have Viv's Tarot card on them and she approves for each of then.  Sera also has a long chain of War Table missions.
 

[Colonelkillabee]

All of the missions start with the Truth or Dare name, they have Viv's Tarot card on them and she approves for each of then.  Sera also has a long chain of War Table missions.
 

Well alright then, I feel better about having Vivienne tag along.

[flabbadence]

Has anyone speculated on where Solas/Fen'harel was asleep all this time? I have to admit, I'm rather getting obsessed with his recent backstory....

 

I was just replaying Act 1 of DA2 and realized that there were ancient elves doing Uthenera on Sundermount, as Merrill mentions, but also, this is the same place where, as Hawke, you summon Flemeth/Mythal with the amulet. When she appears, she talks about needing to keep an appointment one year after she saved you outside of Lothering from darkspawn, and by this, I'm led to believe she's talking about meeting up with Morrigan. Morrigan, as we know, never shows because she thinks Flemeth is going to possess her body and/or take her Old God baby away from her, if he exists.

 

But, this whole thing about why she was summoned on Sundermount and how Keeper Marithari was able to just know she had to move her clan there at that time is interesting. She claims she knew because she listened to the wind and such mystical things like that. Why would she only go there just for Flemeth's summoning? Not only that, but she doesn't move her clan on to other places, but sticks around for another 6 years (very suspicious).

 

This led me to wonder if this is where Fen'harel was asleep all those centuries. From a codex entry that had to be decoded, which can only be picked up in Act 3 of the game, you find out that Fen'harel would be awakening with an eclipse, which suggests he woke up during Act 3 (9:37 Dragon). Also, Sandal says some weird crap only during Act 3, which is basically a prophecy that D. Gaider intentionally put in there because he knew where the story would be headed, so he decided Sandal would say something cryptic to creep the player out.

 

Okay, but why believe Fen'harel was on Sundermount of all places in Thedas? Because D. Gaider also mentioned from the same interview that Corypheus weakened the Veil because of his close proximity to Kirkwall, making the mages very susceptible to being crazy. But, Corphy does not awaken at any specific date that I know of--only between 9:31 and 9:37 Dragon. You get to choose when to go kick his butt in the game. But, Fen'harel seems to have awakened during a specific year that corresponds to Act 3 of DA2, thus 9:37 Dragon.

 

Added to this that if Fen'harel were also very near Kirkwall, then an absolute awakening of an ancient Elvhen god would REALLY weaken the Veil and cause an explosion of sorts. Sounds like Anders blowing up the Chantry, which happens at the end of Act 3, 9:37 Dragon. The best thing to indicate an eclipse actually occurring in DA2 is when you see that in Act 3 of the game, the sun is dimmer in the sky than it is during the other previous two acts. At least it is in Hightown. I always wondered about this. The sun is not low enough in the sky to justify how dim it is outside. Also, I've finally taken notice of how it magically gets dark outside right after Anders blows up the Chantry. Isn't that weird? Why is it suddenly dark out when not more than a matter of minutes went by from the time you first went the the Gallows and then went back to Hightown?

 

A full solar eclipse was probably taking place, but the game simply failed to mention it happening and/or the characters were too distracted to even take notice of it. It's Fen'harel awakening near Kirkwall, causing mages and the lone Red Templar to act like crazy freaks, I tells ya!

 

 

   

 

The implications...

 

I remember Merrill saying in the elven graveyard that there were a few ancients who were "forced" to sleep there. They didn't want to go into uthenera just yet, but they were either criminals or they were getting restless so others forced them to sleep. Though now I don't know if that actually happened ingame or if I just read it in a fanfic somewhere 

 

Anyway, if I'm remembering it right and if we're assuming Solas's uthenera also took place there, then, what if he was forced into uthenera? Sealing the Pantheon and the Forgotten Ones away must have weakened him greatly, and not everyone would have agreed with his actions. Maybe some high priests decided to take revenge on him and seal him away too while he was still weak. They didn't have the power to lock him away the way he did to his peers, because they weren't gods, but forcing him into uthenera they could do. And then Flemeth learned about what happened to him when Andraste came to Sundermount, and when the timing was right, with her favorite daughter Morrigan already in the picture, she had Hawke take her to Sundermount to wake him up.

 

Frick I like this.

 

I wonder how Pride's End ties into this though? Was Solas the demon? Or maybe the same binding that tied the demon to the place also bound the Dread Wolf? The only way to summon Pride's by touching this strange idol too. What if that's Fen'Harel's idol?

[Siha]

I remember Merrill saying in the elven graveyard that there were a few ancients who were "forced" to sleep there. They didn't want to go into uthenera just yet, but they were either criminals or they were getting restless so others forced them to sleep.

...

Anyway, if I'm remembering it right and if we're assuming Solas's uthenera also took place there, then, what if he was forced into uthenera?

...

I wonder how Pride's End ties into this though? Was Solas the demon? Or maybe the same binding that tied the demon to the place also bound the Dread Wolf? The only way to summon Pride's by touching this strange idol too. What if that's Fen'Harel's idol?

 

If Solas slept there and belongs to the "few ancients" then he probably was not in Uthenera at all?

Also, maybe some of the others awoke, too? We do not knw why he awoke. I assume the Kirkwall explosion did not wake if, maybe something triggered all of the different events (Anders deciding to lay the bomb, Solas waking, who knows what else).

Do we know that Pride's End is related to Fen'Harel? I do not remember much of the lore around it.

[flabbadence]

If Solas slept there and belongs to the "few ancients" then he probably was not in Uthenera at all?

Also, maybe some of the others awoke, too? We do not knw why he awoke. I assume the Kirkwall explosion did not wake if, maybe something triggered all of the different events (Anders deciding to lay the bomb, Solas waking, who knows what else).

Do we know that Pride's End is related to Fen'Harel? I do not remember much of the lore around it.

 

I'm pretty sure he was in uthenera at some point. He himself says he'd just woken up from his slumber.

 

Which others are you referring to?

 

I don't think the Kirkwall explosion factored into Fen'Harel waking up either. They're just two big events that happened to occur at the same time, under the light of the eclipse. By the time you're able to read the compendium after all, the Chantry still hasn't blown up. Though, admittedly, it could have been a prophecy, but I don't think so.

 

Whether Pride's End is related to Fen'Harel or not is exactly what I'm wondering about 

[SpiritMuse]

Ah K, I thought it was just the one mission. Are you sure those are really hers, or did they just become available after that? Like is it because of her connections that you find about these things, because lyrium smuggling comes up at least several times.
 
 

 
If I got that scene, I'd punish her by making her pair with Solas. He's the only one that puts her in her place I think. Him and the avvar.

Or you can make her wear the Plaid of Penance. XD

[legbamel]

Though it likely doesn't work for lore reasons, I actually love the idea that a massive, magical explosion in a place where the Veil was already weak woke Solas from his self-imposed exile--or imposed by others long dead, I suppose.
Wait a minute: Feynriel, Fen'Harel? It would be awesome if the oresence of a Dreamer in Kirkwall tied in with solas waking, presuming we was, indeed, up Sundermount the whole time.

[Patchwork]

 

 

Actually, I found Viv to be one of the more helpful members of the Inquisition, in terms of what she brought to it. She has several war table missions where she tips Josie off to matters of political importance. A lot of her friendship scenes also have her advising the Inquisitor about political matters, and how they should position themselves. I found her dialogue on how the Inquisitor should make themselves politically indispensable by any means necessary (because she's worried about them being betrayed from within like Andraste was) rather sweet, in a disturbingly cutthroat kind of way. And then, after you finish her personal quest, she brings two of Bastien's relatives who are influential with the council of Heralds to Skyhold in order to meet the Inquisitor and increase the Inquisition's political consequence. All in all, a friendly Vivienne is extremely helpful.

 

Exactly, Josephine handles the Inquisition's politics but it's Vivienne's advice that can help the Inquisitor navigate that cess pool on a personal level. Only Trevelyan, Cadash maybe, is familiar with human nobility and even they are newbies to the Orlesian Grand Game. She joins the Inquisition because there's no more Circles, Celene is showing favouritism to Morrigan and her lover is dying so she needs to create her next opportunity but along the way she's happy to share her hard won knowledge of the Game with an Inquisitor she likes.   

 

A lot of people here talk about Solas being a mentor to their Lavellan but he's never felt that way to mine, like Vivienne he's an expert in his field and gives great advice on that subject but no one in the Inquisition is Keeper Dashanna 2.0 

[Siha]

I'm pretty sure he was in uthenera at some point. He himself says he'd just woken up from his slumber.

 

Which others are you referring to?

 

I don't think the Kirkwall explosion factored into Fen'Harel waking up either. They're just two big events that happened to occur at the same time, under the light of the eclipse. By the time you're able to read the compendium after all, the Chantry still hasn't blown up. Though, admittedly, it could have been a prophecy, but I don't think so.

 

Whether Pride's End is related to Fen'Harel or not is exactly what I'm wondering about 

 

I was referring to what I quoted. You had said "I remember Merrill saying in the elven graveyard that there were a few ancients who were "forced" to sleep there". Those others I meant. And I thought "slumber" is pretty much the same as "sleep" so if Solas slept there that could have been his slumber. I don't know (I don't even know if the place where he slumbered is of any importance),  so I just wondered...

 

I did not say these events "happened to occur at the same time", I do accept the notion that they might be connected. I even like this notion. I only think that they are all only symptoms of another cause.

[flabbadence]

Though it likely doesn't work for lore reasons, I actually love the idea that a massive, magical explosion in a place where the Veil was already weak woke Solas from his self-imposed exile--or imposed by others long dead, I suppose.
Wait a minute: Feynriel, Fen'Harel? It would be awesome if the oresence of a Dreamer in Kirkwall tied in with solas waking, presuming we was, indeed, up Sundermount the whole time.

 

Lmao, now that I think about it, letting an untrained somniari live beside a mountain full of restless spirits and an ancient pride demon probably wasn't the wisest decision.

 

Though putting him into the Kirkwall circle's just as awful.

 

Feynriel and Hawke can never catch a break 

[flabbadence]

Exactly, Josephine handles the Inquisition's politics but it's Vivienne's advice that can help the Inquisitor navigate that cess pool on a personal level. Only Trevelyan, Cadash maybe, is familiar with human nobility and even they are newbies to the Orlesian Grand Game. She joins the Inquisition because there's no more Circles, Celene is showing favouritism to Morrigan and her lover is dying so she needs to create her next opportunity but along the way she's happy to share her hard won knowledge of the Game with an Inquisitor she likes.   

 

A lot of people here talk about Solas being a mentor to their Lavellan but he's never felt that way to mine, like Vivienne he's an expert in his field and gives great advice on that subject but no one in the Inquisition is Keeper Dashanna 2.0 

 

Yet another reason why I can't get behind the hahren/da'len dynamic of most Solavellan fanfic. I prefer framing their relationship in terms of Wolf Guardian/Emerald Knight actually.

 

 

I was referring to what I quoted. You had said "I remember Merrill saying in the elven graveyard that there were a few ancients who were "forced" to sleep there". Those others I meant. And I thought "slumber" is pretty much the same as "sleep" so if Solas slept there that could have been his slumber. I don't know (I don't even know if the place where he slumbered is of any importance),  so I just wondered...

 

I did not say these events "happened to occur at the same time", I do accept the notion that they might be connected. I even like this notion. I only think that they are all only symptoms of another cause.

 

Well they did wake up I think, though I think that was mostly because of Hawke and crew barging into the place.

 

Hmmm... Yes, I can get behind this. The Chantry explosion wasn't the cause of Fen'Harel waking up, but the two of them were both effects of something else. (But what Bioware, WHAT?!)

[Siha]

Well they did wake up I think, though I think that was mostly because of Hawke and crew barging into the place.

 

So... there's more ancient elves roaming Thedas, not only Solas?

[flabbadence]

So... there's more ancient elves roaming Thedas, not only Solas?

 

I meant the skeletons and shades and shadows we had to kill atop Sundermount  . I'm supposing they were once elves. Though we do have Abelas and crew, so yes to your question.

[Addai]

And that scene where she's changing the quizzy's furniture... hilarious... I never got that scene, but I can see why people wouldn't like her then. How you get her to hate you enough to be so passive aggressive, I have no idea, but seeing that on youtube just made me like her even more.
 
My only gripe with Vivienne is that like Sera, I think her being in the inquisition is kind of forced. I don't even know what she does there. She doesn't give you any wartable operations either. Beyond being a really really boss mage, she's just kinda there, which is why I don't use her much.

 
 

I've never gotten that scene from Viv, my inquisitors have always been friendly with her, but I saw it on youtube and her sitting on her couch fanning herself being the most. passive. aggressive. person. ever.  was the best.

That scene is just so stupid. If she thinks my character is petty enough to even give a damn, then she hasn't learned a thing about her.

I don't do the Orlesian politics quests at the war table because screw the Game, we've got better things to do. So yeah. I'm not set up to be able to do anything with either Sera or Vivienne. They're benchwarmers.

[Patchwork]

So... there's more ancient elves roaming Thedas, not only Solas?

 

Felessan (RIP) did speak about his clan by which I assume he meant other ancient elves and there's Mythal's sentinels. Abelas can die but some of them could survive Cory's attack on the temple. 

[NightSymphony]

hmm...  next time I play..I really need to do Viv's missions. I couldn't bring myself to kill that rare white wyvren (how ever it's spelled) before. 

[Avejajed]

If there are still ancient temples/sentinels devoted to the elven pantheon couldn't there still be ancient elves devoted to the forgotten ones? Assuming the forgotten ones are elves, anyway.

[Avejajed]

hmm... next time I play..I really need to do Viv's missions. I couldn't bring myself to kill that rare white wyvren (how ever it's spelled) before.

If it tries to kill me I'm gonna kill it, regardless of how rare it is.

[Siha]

 Sera or Vivienne. They're benchwarmers.

 

Why do you not refuse them to join (Vivienne) or tell them to leave (Sera if you accept her at first for the bees)? Does it have benefits to keep them around or disadvantages to make them go/not take them in?

 

Felessan (RIP) did speak about his clan by which I assume he meant other ancient elves and there's Mythal's sentinels. Abelas can die but some of them could survive Cory's attack on the temple. 

 

I did not read any of the books, so my knowledge on Felassan is basically non-existent. I only know that tiny bit of lore because he appeared as a ghost in DAO. May I ask what he said or if there is anything interesting about this in the books/related to him?

[BoscoBread]

 
 
That scene is just so stupid. If she thinks my character is petty enough to even give a damn, then she hasn't learned a thing about her.

I don't do the Orlesian politics quests at the war table because screw the Game, we've got better things to do. So yeah. I'm not set up to be able to do anything with either Sera or Vivienne. They're benchwarmers.

I'm always friendly with Vivienne for some miraculous reason since I go against everything she stands for.   I do like her character though so I did do the war table missions and was able to be friends with her.   I agree though, I thought that scene was so hilarious and I don't understand why the writers thought that would compare to the other 'low approval' scenes.  I'm like you,  I would have been like 'uh...have fun decorating i guess. if you could, somebody needs to do something about the basement, thanks.'

[Vorathrad]

A lot of people here talk about Solas being a mentor to their Lavellan but he's never felt that way to mine, like Vivienne he's an expert in his field and gives great advice on that subject but no one in the Inquisition is Keeper Dashanna 2.0

Same here; with high approval Vivienne feels even a bit motherly, which fitted my Lavellan that I headcanon as pretty young. If she ever looked up to someone to learn navigating her new position, it was definitely Vivienne. Her being a hunter, Solas was more an advisor on issues she didn't know about than a true mentor.

I also dislike the hahren-da'len dynamics. I can see that it can appeal to some people, but I prefer relationships on equal terms. Even taking into account the huge difference in age and knowledge, Lavellan is a pretty amazing and powerful woman capable of many feats; in Solas own words, she handles everything with a subtlety and wisdom beyond her mortal condition. So I'd rather picture them as equals, at least in their relationship.

[Avejajed]

That scene is just so stupid. If she thinks my character is petty enough to even give a damn, then she hasn't learned a thing about her.

I don't do the Orlesian politics quests at the war table because screw the Game, we've got better things to do. So yeah. I'm not set up to be able to do anything with either Sera or Vivienne. They're benchwarmers.

Even if playing the game means you'll amass more help to save the world? My Revas isn't super into this court nonsense and is willing to put a stop to things that will not further her goals, but at the end of the day, she'll do whatever it takes to save the world, no matter how many orleasian asses she's got to kiss.

[NightSymphony]

If it tries to kill me I'm gonna kill it, regardless of how rare it is.

Yeah...I don't mind killing things that attack me first...but I hate killing the dragons that are just minding their own business. I've always hated killing dragons in video games...all animals actually.  I can kill people all day long...but I hate killing animals....except spiders. All spiders must die!!!