The Vallaslin stopped someone from being immortal?
How? What's it made of?
Ink, mixed with blood.
Blood magic.
Blood magic blocks access to the Fade.
And if uthenera's how immortality's preserved, and uthenera's basically just the elf journeying into the Fade, then if your connection to that's blocked, so's your immortality
Ink, mixed with blood.
Blood magic.
Blood magic blocks access to the Fade
!
ahhhhh. I FORGOT! You're perfect.
EXCEPT, I forgot, Abelas and crew have vallaslin 
Edit: But wait. Maybe there's different types of vallaslin? There's one for the lowest slaves that blocks your connection to the Fade, then there's one for priests like Abelas that just binds you to your god
EXCEPT, I forgot, Abelas and crew have vallaslin
What is it about pregnancy that somehow erases the taint? I never got the impression Urthemiel's will was subdued though, more like Keiran and him are joined the way Flemeth and Mythal's joined.
At least Urthemiel was hard to beat, unlike Cory
No, cory was incredibly hard. You know why? Because that ****** part of the game made my pc crash like a motherfucker the first time I tried. Back before I had the game running crisp. Their settings in graphics conflicts with your pc master settings a lot. Especially ambient occlusion.
As for pregnancy, the griffon eggs didn't have much taint to them either in the last flight. And it was easier to remove. I don't know why though...
You're not really removing the taint with pregnancy in this case though, you're just giving the archdemon soul a place to stay that isn't blighted and that doesn't have a real will of its own yet. Trapping it.
So what made only half the population immortal? What about the immortal elves differentiated them from the slaves? Physically, I mean.
How could only certain people have access to immortality? Some kind of fountain of youth? Differences in blood? Magic?
Well, the sense that I got was that immortality was a product of Uthenera. So like a cryogenic sleep. The elders would go into Uthenera, retain their knowledge, and be able to spend eternity chatting with spirits and sharing that knowledge with younger elven mages who came to consult with them in the Fade. The ancient elves didn't need libraries because the Dreamers were living, immortal repositories of knowledge.
Ooooooh, this is wonderful. This bit in particular piqued my interest.
This implies that the knowledgeable were the only ones who were immortal, which fits in with what we know of Uthenera.
I've been trying to reconcile an entire society of immortals with what we know of ancient Arlathan. The slaves couldn't have been immortal, could they? Perhaps only the upper classes, the ones who could afford to be cared for in Uthenera, had access to immortality. Perhaps that's also how Solas's immortality works. After all, he's been asleep for all this time. What if he could only endure so long because he was asleep?
So what made only half the population immortal? What about the immortal elves differentiated them from the slaves? Physically, I mean.
How could only certain people have access to immortality? Some kind of fountain of youth? Differences in blood? Magic?
I didn't read that as only the knowledgeable ones being immortal (but then I'm really hungry so my reading comphrension is not at its best at the moment). All is says is that slaves had less oppertunity to spread their lore, not that they're were not immortal.
I didn't read that as only the knowledgeable ones being immortal (but then I'm really hungry so my reading comphrension is not at its best at the moment). All is says is that slaves had less oppertunity to spread their lore, not that they're were not immortal.
Gaider's talking about when the elves were slaves in Tevinter (so directly after the fall of Arlathan). Remember, this was 2009. We didn't know that Arlathan had slaves back then.
EXCEPT, I forgot, Abelas and crew have vallaslin
Edit: But wait. Maybe there's different types of vallaslin? There's one for the lowest slaves that blocks your connection to the Fade, then there's one for priests like Abelas that just binds you to your god
Gaider's talking about when the elves were slaves in Tevinter (so directly after the fall of Arlathan). Remember, this was 2009. We didn't know that Arlathan had slaves back then.
Ahhh...
Okay.
I still think all ancient elves were immortal. That make the most sense to me.
World of Thedas information on The Blight
Spoiler
Hopefully this may be useful to somebody!
(My studies are otherwise sapping my brainpower, none leftover for theorising ;-; )
Ooooooh, this is wonderful. This bit in particular piqued my interest.
This implies that the knowledgeable were the only ones who were immortal, which fits in with what we know of Uthenera.
I've been trying to reconcile an entire society of immortals with what we know of ancient Arlathan. The slaves couldn't have been immortal, could they? Perhaps only the upper classes, the ones who could afford to be cared for in Uthenera, had access to immortality. Perhaps that's also how Solas's immortality works. After all, he's been asleep for all this time. What if he could only endure so long because he was asleep?
Solas says immortality was simply part of being elven. I think what was meant by what Gaider said there, is that the elves lost their knowledge of the past because most of their lore, their religion and knowledge was an oral tradition. But when the elves became mortal, the lore keepers died, and they lost that old knowledge.
Ahhh...
Okay.
I still think all ancient elves were immortal. That make the most sense to me.
But how would a society be able to control an immortal slave class? That doesn't make any sense. You'd think that after long enough they'd have enough experience/knowledge to plan some sort of uprising. Then there are your overpopulation problems. The only way I can see it working is regular culling.
Plus, Gaider's essay and the codex info about Uthenera make it sound like the elves who went into Uthenera were the ones that gifted their knowledge to each new generation. Only the best of the best (or the highest classes) had the opportunity to be immortal and go into Uthenera for the benefit of future generations.
In fact, the whole "teaching of knowledge in the Fade" thing makes me think of what he said about the old gods whispering to the Tevinter Dreamers from the Fade. After all, supposedly Dumat was the one who taught the first Tevinter Dreamers blood magic...
Solas says immortality was simply part of being elven. I think what was meant by what Gaider said there, is that the elves lost their knowledge of the past because most of their lore, their religion and knowledge was an oral tradition. But when the elves became mortal, the lore keepers died, and they lost that old knowledge.
I took that to mean that it wasn't some sort of spell that the elves cast on themselves. Every elf would have the ability to go into Uthenera (which is obviously no longer the case), but only the ones who could arrange to be cared for would be able to.
Immortality doesn't necessarily make someone powerful by itself. The elves could still die, and they could still be controlled via social controls, religion, magic, or who knows what else. (I keep looking at how the Qunari are run...) And maybe the lower classes of the ancient elves weren't eager to stick their necks out when Falon'Din or Andruil might decide they want sacrifices, or Ghilan'nain needs new test subjects?
Here's a question: what was ancient elven society like? What was it's caste system? The gods surely didn't run around down the street from their people.
But you had the Pantheon itself, upper class? Who did the upper class consist of? Dreamers, scholars, mages, ??, was everyone a slave to a god?
I apologize for this weird ass rambling. I'm on my phone in the breakroom and it's literally like 15 degrees and my hands are cold and I don't really kmow what I'm trying to say anyway lol
I have a feeling it was run like any other theocracy. It sounds like they were a deeply religious society tbh. So at the top you have the Rulers/Gods/Pantheon, then below probably aristocrats/priests/dreamers/powerful mages, then the slave class.
I doubt the gods ran around the streets like plebians but they certainly walked among their own people.
I took that to mean that it wasn't some sort of spell that the elves cast on themselves. Every elf would have the ability to go into Uthenera (which is obviously no longer the case), but only the ones who could arrange to be cared for would be able to.
I don't equate elven immortality with uthenera, that seemed to be more of an ability, and was usually linked with the end of an ancient elf's life.
But how would a society be able to control an immortal slave class? That doesn't make any sense. You'd think that after long enough they'd have enough experience/knowledge to plan some sort of uprising. Then there are your overpopulation problems. The only way I can see it working is regular culling.
Well, they did have uprisings, and there could have indeed been culling. Those things aren't mutually exclusive, and immortal just means "can't be killed by natural causes." There was probably some sort of magic control in the vallaslin?
I didn't get from Gaider's comments that only the teachers were immortal, but rather that if you have immortal beings around, it somewhat obviates (hello Solas 
) the need for written texts.
I literally just had this thought enter my head "I'm going to take my second through the Temple...yeah!" immediately followed by a weird twisting feeling in my stomach and a cascade of excuses as to why I should really do something else. I'll never do it will I? It's like a freaking defence mechanism, I have no control over it...
Here's what the wiki says on uthenera and immortality (of course, this was probably based on what the Dalish know, so this might not actually be true):
While the ancient elves did not die, the oldest of the elves were said to be weary of life. Memories became too much to bear, and rather than fade into complacency, they voluntarily stood aside to let newer generations guide their people. This practice was known as uthenera, or "the endless dream".
http://dragonage.wik...ote-prima341-12
I don't equate elven immortality with uthenera, that seemed to be more of an ability, and was usually linked with the end of an ancient elf's life.
Yeah. I think Uthenera was a necessity, because mentally - living for that long - must have been exhausting. We met Solas and Abelas - they aren't exactly unfeeling or cold. They can be emotionally compromised and fairly easily. Imagine dealing with that for thousands of years. Sleep must have been a blessing at points.
Though I agree with Jello - I don't understand how they could function as a slave-based empire with immortal slaves. I know immportality doesn't equal power, but after hundreds of years SOMETHING should have happened. It's just what happens in those situations. Unless there were bloody uprisings and bloody cullings. Which I would believe. Arlathan kind of sounds like it really wasn't all that great if you weren't in the upper echelons of society.
I'm really curious how long it took for an ancient elf to reach adulthood as well. Did they need a century for their bodies to look like they were 18? And how long would a pregnancy last?
It's making me kind of hope for a "power of friendship"-type ending for a Wolf Hunt DLC. I want the companions to have the chance to react to whatever Solas is up to. I mean, some of them (like Cole and Cass and Bull) seemed to be close to him. It'd be nice to see them welcoming him back (or not, depending on the situation).
I'm thinking my first playthrough of any DLC will be with a non-Lavellan character just in case things go horribly, horribly wrong. Then I can just never play through it with her and pretend nothing more ever happened. If it turns out to be a feel-good, power of friendship type of DLC then I would be both shocked and relieved.
Here's a question: what was ancient elven society like? What was it's caste system? The gods surely didn't run around down the street from their people.
I imagine the ancient elven empire to be something like a series of rival cults. The 'god' would rule over a section of land much like a king, but with the added authority of religion. The people would range from fanatical to enlightened depending on who was setting the rules. The gods would then have various nobles or even 'kings' to rule the common folk and preform whatever acts of subservience they required. I wouldn't be surprised if many of these nobles were direct descendants of the gods, thus consolidating power.
You would have your powerful mages and scholars. People like Ghilan'nain. These people would educate, craft spells, and likely have direct contact with the gods and nobles.
Then you would have your middle class, which would be primarily made up of lower tier priests and scholars, along with artisans, merchants, and other craftsmen. These would be the people who primarily interact with the nobles, but very rarely have the opportunity to be in direct contact with a god.
Below that, you have the slaves. Your vallaslin marked what god your master paid fealty to. A noble might be rewarded by accumulating more slaves, as any slave owned by the noble would also belong to their chosen god. Depending on the god, I'm sure there was a certain element of ritual sacrifice involved with the slave class.
But not all of the vallaslin marked would simply be lowerclass. You would have slaves who were favored by the gods, like Abelas. These would either be chosen directly by a god because of their unique talents, or, they might be 'donated' to the god from noble families. In medieval Italy, it was common to reserve one son as your heir, and a second son that would be sent to the vatican. Similarly, I imagine there would be a lot of great honor involved with having a son or daughter in the direct service of a god.
The gods themselves probably met up to discuss politics and bicker amongst one another. Ambassadors would constantly bounce about. There are no roads in ancient Arlathan, so most travel between 'zones' is instantaneous via the eluvians. Occasionally you would have ambassadors that visit non-elven settlements, but I doubt it happened all that often.
Yeah. I think Uthenera was a necessity, because mentally - living for that long - must have been exhausting. We met Solas and Abelas - they aren't exactly unfeeling or cold. They can be emotionally compromised and fairly easily. Imagine dealing with that for thousands of years. Sleep must have been a blessing at points.
Though I agree with Jello - I don't understand how they could function as a slave-based empire with immortal slaves. I know immportality doesn't equal power, but after hundreds of years SOMETHING should have happened. It's just what happens in those situations. Unless there were bloody uprisings and bloody cullings. Which I would believe. Arlathan kind of sounds like it really wasn't all that great if you weren't in the upper echelons of society.
We know there was a lot of conflict going on, so that might say something. And it sounds like your average elf was in frequent danger of becoming cannon fodder.
"She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold. Andruil, blood and force, save us from the time this weapon is thrown. Your people pray to You. Spare us the moment we become Your sacrifice."
http://dragonage.wik...e_Elven_Writing
Immortality probably didn't help the less powerful of the ancient elves from being stomped if they crossed the wrong people. Also consider something like the Well of Sorrows on a mass scale. Can there be a slave uprising when the slaves can't even act by their own free will? Is this the sort of thing that Solas remembers and hates so much?
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