I'm really curious how long it took for an ancient elf to reach adulthood as well. Did they need a century for their bodies to look like they were 18? And how long would a pregnancy last?
I hope reaching adulthood took just as long as it does for modern elves. The whole stretched-out life cycle thing is why I usually hate elves in Tolkien-esque fantasy.
I'm really curious how long it took for an ancient elf to reach adulthood as well. Did they need a century for their bodies to look like they were 18? And how long would a pregnancy last?
I think the whole thing is "I DONT understand immortality". How does it work? Why would anyone want it? If you can't age, how does one even have a baby. Can you just refuse to be immortal? Meaning could Solas just be like, "Nope. Going to age and die with you Lavellan?"
It doesn't sound like it was much a of choice because Uthenera, but then again - culturally - Uthenera sounds like it was IMMENSELY important. It was necessary for them to gather knowledge and pass it down. So when an ancient elf died from trauma, they were literally taking hundreds of years of amassed wisdom and knowledge with them. So are the ancient elves pretty much the Geth????
I mean, there's probably more to the ritual. The Warden Joining requires lyrium and mages messing with the Fade, which is all kinds of brow-raising.
...
Hmm. I wonder what would happen if a darkspawn slew an Archdemon. Presumably, it would pop into an nearby vessel. This could help them make a quick escape from those crazy Warden guys.
It would be pretty dull if the ritual was only about drinking Darkspawn blood and any given weekend satanist could just hop aboard and try his luck.
Yes, that is the plan. As we know thanks to Morrigan's ritual the OGS will not necessarily jump into the slayer but simply into the strongest tainted body around. I assume a Warden is stronger than a Darkspawn, due to having a longer life span and being something "more", bur Morrigan's baby was even better. Anyway, if the dragon were to die by the hand of a normal person, the OGS would probably jump into the next Darkspawn at hand.
And this has actually always got me wondering: how the hell do the Wardens even know that? Wardens end the Blight, Wardens slay the archdemon. But how do you figure that out in the first place? The first Blight comes up and you know nothing about it, kill the archdemon but its soul just hops - which you should not even be able to see (just look at Corypheus and Larius). Second Blight happens no-one-knows-how-much-later, and you should be just as ignorant as before. I figure it should take a few Blights to find out what you are doing is pointless and another few to find out what the actual problem is. Yet, they've had the answer there right from the beginning. I find that odd.
I always found Uthenera fascinating. I know Merrill in Sundermount mentions that some ol' fools didn't want to go to sleep so the young'uns forced them to. However it appears to have left them restless because Hawke and co. were fighting some of the spirits they awoke in the area? Or I wonder if was that just the thinning of the veil, with all the succulent blood magic going on at Kirkwall.
I also remember reading a few pages back someone's theory about Fen'Harel waking up in Sundermount, which is why Keeper Marethari might have been around the area.
Also was Uthenera a form of jail for immortal elves? In other words:
and did we ever find out what was Flemeth important appointment she needed to keep a year later?
And this has actually always got me wondering: how the hell do the Wardens even know that? Wardens end the Blight, Wardens slay the archdemon. But how do you figure that out in the first place? The first Blight comes up and you know nothing about it, kill the archdemon but it's soul just hops - which you should not even be able to see (just look at Corypheus and Larius). Second Blight happens no-one-knows-how-much-later, and you should be just as ignorant as before. I figure it should take a few Blights to find out what you are doing is pointless and another few to find out what the actual problem is. Yet, they've had the answer there right from the beginning. I find that odd.
I can help with this one.
Speaking of Fenris and his lyrium tattoos-
Can someone remind me: Do all of the slaves in Tevinter have them? Well, not all of the slaves, but some? And are they marked with special designs relating to who owns them or are they random?
I do not know if somebody answered, but Fenris says they are not common. In fact he is unique, which is why his magister wants him back. The lyrium markings were expensive and inflicted fear in the magister's opponents (and guests). Fenris did even have to compete with others to even receive them, so he is very special.
first of all sorry if my English is a bit messy
) 
Sidelining from the ancient elf conversation, there's another interesting point in Gaider's essay:
The Old Gods were not creators, though they were supposedly also not created. The Old Gods were outside of the Creator's Plan and showed up to whisper to mankind and teach them magic.
When I read this I was like, what? I remember reading a codex entry somewhere that the Chantry considered the Old Gods the Maker's First Children.
Upon digging through the wiki however, it turns out this info's found in one of the Dissonant Verses, namely the Canticle of Silence, Verse 3:
The Old Gods will call to you,
From their ancient prisons they will sing.
Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts,
On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight,
The first of My children, lost to night.
-Silence 3:6, Dissonant Verse[8]
And that's just, why exactly would the Chantry makes this a dissonant verse? The only other dissonant verse we know of's in the Canticle of Shartan, which was removed because they had Andraste promising the Dales to the elves there, a promise that the Chantry then reneged on when they launched the Exalted March.
But the Canticle of Silence... what exactly's so damaging about having the Old Gods labeled as the Maker's first children? Making them the Maker's first children brings them a level below the Maker after all, so it's actually even complimentary to the Chantry.
Why remove it then?
Without the Canticle of Silence, the first children being referred to in the Chant are the spirits of the Fade, with mankind being second.
So, do they not want the Old Gods associated with spirits? Or do they not want them associated with the Maker? And why?
I imagine the situation among the elves was somewhat like the situation in Tevinter. In Tevinter being a mage doesn't mean you're equal to other mages in either magic power or authority. Mages can be slaves (which was illustrated in DA:I), and according to Fenris, Tevinter has regular slave revolts that are always put down. Without any serious power behind them, ancient elven rebellions were probably short lived.
I've imagined Dirthamen being something like the spymaster of the elven gods. Imagine an organization of spies that can look into your dreams and find dissension. And knowing you live in a society where you know you are always being watched, even in your dreams. Anyone with serious thoughts of uprising probably wouldn't last long. People would be terrified. (I wonder if this is why Dirthamen was killed, if he was killed...) If Fen'Harel was the one who "belonged to Dirthamen", he might even have been one of Dirthamen's agents, doing this sort of work before being raised to something higher.
I imagine the situation among the elves was somewhat like the situation in Tevinter. In Tevinter being a mage doesn't mean you're equal to other mages in either magic power or authority. Mages can be slaves (which was illustrated in DA:I), and according to Fenris, Tevinter has regular slave revolts that are always put down. Without any serious power behind them, ancient elven rebellions were probably short lived.
I've imagined Dirthamen being something like the spymaster of the elven gods. Imagine an organization of spies that can look into your dreams and find dissension. And knowing you live in a society where you know you are always being watched, even in your dreams. Anyone with serious thoughts of uprising probably wouldn't last long. People would be terrified. (I wonder if this is why Dirthamen was killed, if he was killed...) If Fen'Harel was the one who "belonged to Dirthamen", he might even have been one of Dirthamen's agents, doing this sort of work before being raised to something higher.
This sounds a bit like the Qun no? like the Ben-Hassrath? which is why Solas has such an obvious disdain of their practices when he talks to Bull.
Hi everyone! This is my first time posting around here
It's not my first language
I recently finished my first PT, I played a fem mage Trevelyan and Solas quickly became my favourite character; around the time I got to Skyhold I liked him so much I seriously considered starting a new game with a Lavellan so I could romance him but I didn't wanted to throw away so many hours of gameplay.. D: well I wish I had now! The ending was quite shocking for me as it was so I can only imagine how much it would have impressed me if I had romanced him without knowing anything! (well, in my headcanon the poor Trev had a huge unconfessed crush on him but it's not the same of same of course
Now I'm set to start my second game, this time as an elf so I can really indulge into this drama xD
Anyway sorry for the rambling, I'm just happy to see other people as into this as myself! f I had always loved geeking over the lore and mythology of the games/books I like (main reason why Solas caught my attention probably) and I saw some great theories around the thread, so I'll start reading asap
See you around!
you are a stronger person than i. i had to bail on a 40 hour trev game because i could. not. stand. it.
good luck with the feels! it's a very lovely romance.
I hope reaching adulthood took just as long as it does for modern elves. The whole stretched-out life cycle thing is why I usually hate elves in Tolkien-esque fantasy.
What's wrong about a stretched-out life cycle? It makes sense for an immortal after all
I think the whole thing is "I DONT understand immortality". How does it work? Why would anyone want it? If you can't age, how does one even have a baby. Can you just refuse to be immortal? Meaning could Solas just be like, "Nope. Going to age and die with you Lavellan?"
It doesn't sound like it was much a of choice because Uthenera, but then again - culturally - Uthenera sounds like it was IMMENSELY important. It was necessary for them to gather knowledge and pass it down. So when an ancient elf died from trauma, they were literally taking hundreds of years of amassed wisdom and knowledge with them. So are the ancient elves pretty much the Geth????
Yep, and considering I'm still pretty terrified of immortality, I find the whole concept even more confusing
I don't think a single old elf's life as important as that. They can store their knowledge in the Fade after all, so the Dreamers can still access dead elf wisdom
This is an argument about pleasing people or making a great well developed character.
yes.. and I hope this never ever happens. People will complain anyway.. I'm happy with the decisions they went with!
If Fen'Harel was the one who "belonged to Dirthamen", he might even have been one of Dirthamen's agents, doing this sort of work before being raised to something higher.
Some people have speculated that Fen'Harel might have at some point been like a watch dog for Mythal. It would be interesting if she poached him from Dirthamen, particularly if Dirthamen ends up being one of the ones who was working against her. Kind of like a double agent.
Although my personal thought is Fen'Harel was something of a vagabond. Either a powerful mage that came into his own, and was just powerful enough that the gods determined it was easier placating him than making enemies. Or, he was one of the original set of gods, and for whatever reason rebelled the system simply because he could.
Or, maybe he was a Forgotten One initially. And he just happened to chill out in Thedas rather than the void, for unknown reasons.
Some people have speculated that Fen'Harel might have at some point been like a watch dog for Mythal. It would be interesting if she poached him from Dirthamen, particularly if Dirthamen ends up being one of the ones who was working against her. Kind of like a double agent.
Although my personal thought is Fen'Harel was something of a vagabond. Either a powerful mage that came into his own, and was just powerful enough that the gods determined it was easier placating him than making enemies. Or, he was one of the original set of gods, and for whatever reason rebelled the system simply because he could.
Or, maybe he was a Forgotten One initially. And he just happened to chill out in Thedas rather than the void, for unknown reasons.
Chilling out in the void makes it hard to get into the Fade!
This sounds a bit like the Qun no? like the Ben-Hassrath? which is why Solas has such an obvious disdain of their practices when he talks to Bull.
It was on my mind when I was writing that, yup. Solas gets really upset about the Qun and particularly what the Ben-Hassrath does.
I'm peeved when people complain just because there's a limit. Wish solas were bisexual? OK. But acknowledge the character that was presented to you. If you can't do that its just more whining.
I don't know.... this doesn't sound right. In real life, if someone doesn't want me, I'll punch him on the nose.
Whenever an NPCs refuses to romance, BioWare should give us an option to punch him on the nose.
(For some reason I this time feel the need to point out that this is only a joke. Rather pathetic, alright, but a joke. 
)
What's wrong about a stretched-out life cycle? It makes sense for an immortal after all
Yeah, but I still hate the whole, "I'm 50 years old and still a child" thing. A certain amount of maturity comes as a result of life experience. Having lived 50 years and still be a child is creepy. That was also my problem with Space Elves the Asari. Liara just didn't act like someone who had been alive for over 100 years.
This is all coming from my very human lifespan-centric perspective, of course. But the haughty immortal elf thing is still one of my least favourite fantasy tropes. The reason I like DA elves is that they subvert that.
(For some reason I this time feel the need to point out that this is only a joke. Rather pathetic, alright, but a joke.
The reason is because it's not and you are 100 percent dead serious.
All this talk of the ancient elves - i really want an ancient arthlathan DLC. Like something before the fall and leading up to it. that would be so neat. mostly because i just want to see dour, haughty elve/gods snarking at eachtoher. also young!solas.
The reason is because it's not and you are 100 percent dead serious.
Be careful. I would punch people on the nose for other reasons, too, you know.
Be careful. I would punch people on the nose for other reasons, too, you know.
Mmm, hot Cass tends to do this too.
Some people have speculated that Fen'Harel might have at some point been like a watch dog for Mythal. It would be interesting if she poached him from Dirthamen, particularly if Dirthamen ends up being one of the ones who was working against her. Kind of like a double agent.
Although my personal thought is Fen'Harel was something of a vagabond. Either a powerful mage that came into his own, and was just powerful enough that the gods determined it was easier placating him than making enemies. Or, he was one of the original set of gods, and for whatever reason rebelled the system simply because he could.
Or, maybe he was a Forgotten One initially. And he just happened to chill out in Thedas rather than the void, for unknown reasons.
I'm kinda leaning towards the idea of Fen'Harel being Mythal's watchdog myself. 
And I think Fen'Harel probably did come from humble beginnings (I think that boy from that little village was real), but gradually worked his way up.
Be careful. I would punch people on the nose for other reasons, too, you know.
Well that doesn't surprise me.
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