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[nikki-tikki]

*sobbing forever*

 

Not done lightly, I can tell you that.

how do you sleep at night 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Make me cry more emo elves.

 

Now I'm determined for my Lavellan to be the happiest elf ever, even if the Solas romance doesn't work out.  The setting needs *someone* who's still fairly elfy and isn't chronically sad.  We can't all be as sour and dour as the grumpy ancients.

 

On a more serious note, I think my Lavellan would eventually lose patience with the "OMG what happened to our People" attitude from Solas, Abelas, etc.  It's an understandable sadness, but it's not helping anyone. Yes, it's sad that the elves no longer had their empire.  Yes, it was wonderful and magical, and she does care about preserving knowledge and history.  But your average city elf (or even Dalish) probably doesn't care about Arlathan.  They care about the next meal, shelter, whether that d***bag human noble is going to cause trouble for their family.  

 

I wish she could have met Felassan.

[Colonelkillabee]

No way. Killabee owes us smut. 

LOL you too? The cass one is coming after the elf one with Conan I'm doing... still working on that one, but will have that done tonight, or the morning at the latest.

 

Then Cass.

[vierrae]

 I've watched the video of Dorian's though and it is hysterical.  Guy goes down like a ton of bricks.  Cole's final disapproval video is so upsetting.  I could NEVER play through a game where Cole hated me. 

Can I, please, have a link for this? I'd never bring myself to have it in-game, so youtube would suffice.

Thanks in advance, off I go and catch up with the thread. It keeps running away...

[flabbadence]

I'd say Fenris, personally. Solas has been through hell, but it was a different kind of hell. Solas has suffered, but he's always had freedom and control over his own life. He's always had pride and fortitude. As far as we know, no one has ever commanded him. Even when he's been backed into a corner, like he was with Corypheus, he found ways to keep going. He's capable of being autonomous, even if he longs for companionship. 

 

Fenris doesn't have any of that to fall back on. His life wasn't his own, and he's just learning how to stand. If you take away the things that ground him, he doesn't have anything left. If I remember right, if you send him back to the slavers he's basically broken at your betrayal. 

 

I don't think I could ever leave Hawke in the fade if those two romanced one another. Fenris needs some spot of happiness. 

 

I do think Solas's views about slavery comes from an outsider's perspective. Look at this banter with Bull:

 

• Iron Bull: Tell me something, Solas. Do you think the servants here are happier then the people living under the Qun in Par Vollen?
• Solas: It doesn't matter if they are happy, it matters that they may choose!
• Iron Bull: Choose? Choose what? Whether to do their work or get tossed onto the street to starve?
• Solas: Yes! If a Ferelden servant decides that his life goal is to... become a poet, he can follow that dream!
• Solas: It may be difficult, and he might fail. But the whole of society is not aligned to oppose him!
• Iron Bull: Sure, and good for him. How many servants actually go do that, though?
• Solas: Almost none! What does that matter?
• Solas: Your Qun would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!
• Iron Bull: And then people feel like crap for failing.
• Iron Bull: When the truth is, the deck was stacked against them anyway.

 

Solas is focused on wasted potential. If this were Fenris however, his focus would probably be on power dynamics and survival

[dragondreamer]

You monster!

 

 

how do you sleep at night 

 

My worldstate, it's so sad. 

 

But I did it because I think Fenris is stronger than my Warden.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I do think Solas's views about slavery comes from an outsider's perspective. 

 

He reminds me of the more privileged American abolitionists before the Civil War.  Someone who genuinely wants to end slavery and sees it as an evil, but has no comprehension of what it's actually like being a slave.  He could benefit from a chat or two with Fenris.  Maybe they can bond first over their mutual love of drinking 

[Addai]

I like Tolkien's elves a lot, but mostly because the Silmarillion portrays them with a lot more nuance than the saintly Rivendell/Lothlorien elves people usually think of. More Thranduil-esque, or even shadier (Feanor and his cursed sons. Celegorm and Curufin. Thingol, Thranduil's prototype). So I really like the dark turn DA has taken with its elves, and all this lore has made me way more invested in the series than I used to be.

Oh yeah, Tolkien elves are way darker and more complex than people give them credit for. But he was still writing mythology, not novels, really, so all the LOTR characters are a bit archetypical rather than real beings. I don't mind at all that we're seeing some of the grandeur of Elvhenan now, since it's still plenty dark and they are still elves, after all.

 

edit for ToP

 

[vierrae]

I think there is mismatch going on with Well of Sorrows concept.

As I understand, Abelas&Co were stationed at Mythal's Temple to guard it, meaning, the Well was there during Mythal's life. We also know, that every servant of Mythal would pass their knowledge on through the Well of Sorrows. My point is that it's either Mythal's servants were not immortal (which is unlikely, I think), or they filled the Well before/during Uthenera.

 

EDIT: and as you can see in this screen, there are actually 7 eluvians near the Well. My guess - they connect elven pantheon's temples, all of them, but Fen'harel's. Not entirely relevant to my previous ranting, but curious none the less.

 

Modifié par vierrae, 11 février 2015 - 08:03 .

[Mims]

He reminds me of the more privileged American abolitionists before the Civil War.  Someone who genuinely wants to end slavery and sees it as an evil, but has no comprehension of what it's actually like being a slave.  He could benefit from a chat or two with Fenris.  Maybe they can bond first over their mutual love of drinking 

 

That is a perfect metaphor. It also explains why he got so burned with Arlathan. He assumed a bunch of slaves could just take the gauntlet, because he's thinking from the perspective of a non-slave. At the time, it probably just felt like all that needed to be done was to cut the shackles and step back and let people put together order again. Let free will and free thinking prevail. 

 

But that's like having a thousand [million? billion?] Fenrises and asking them to now rule an empire. They weren't ready for that. 

[flabbadence]

I wish she could have met Felassan.

No you do not. Solavellan's salty enough

He reminds me of the more privileged American abolitionists before the Civil War. Someone who genuinely wants to end slavery and sees it as an evil, but has no comprehension of what it's actually like being a slave. He could benefit from a chat or two with Fenris. Maybe they can bond first over their mutual love of drinking

I don't think he's as detached from the slave's perspective as that. I get the feeling he was friends with lots of Arlathan slaves, so he's as close to it as say a Hawke who romanced Fenris. He's very vehement about freedom of thought after all. That and his rebellion (against the whole freaking pantheon) has to come from somewhere.

[jellobell]

I'd say Fenris, personally. Solas has been through hell, but it was a different kind of hell. Solas has suffered, but he's always had freedom and control over his own life. He's always had pride and fortitude. As far as we know, no one has ever commanded him. Even when he's been backed into a corner, like he was with Corypheus, he found ways to keep going. He's capable of being autonomous, even if he longs for companionship. 

 

Fenris doesn't have any of that to fall back on. His life wasn't his own, and he's just learning how to stand. If you take away the things that ground him, he doesn't have a lot left. If I remember right, if you send him back to the slavers he's basically broken at your betrayal. 

Yeah, I don't think we should play the "who's more tragic?" game. They're both tragic figures, for very different reasons. Fenris doesn't have anything near Solas's self-assurance. Solas, while lonely and tired and bitter, has a core of inner strength that lets him keep going no matter what anyone does to him. As much as I love Fenris, both he and Anders in DA2 were in very emotionally unhealthy places. I don't even want to think of what would happen to a romanced Fenris if Hawke died.

 

But you know, one of the things I really liked about Solas's romance is that I didn't feel like he needed me. I mean, he probably really benefited from having Lavellan's companionship, and it's clear that he really wanted that emotional connection, but he wouldn't be utterly destroyed by its absence. Coming off of DA2, where both of the male romances felt uncomfortably codependent at times, it was an interesting change. Especially interesting when you compare Solas's romance to Anders'. There comes a point iirc (perhaps multiple points) where Anders says that this relationship is just going to hurt Hawke. He truly believes this. Knows it, in fact, in Act 3. And yet he can't bring himself to break it off. Solas, when faced with a similar situation, does (...eventually).

 

Actually, there are three DA romances where the dude says that the relationship is a bad idea. There's Blackwall as well. And when it comes to the point where Anders doesn't break it off and Solas does, Blackwall up and leaves instead. Which is an interesting insight into his character, because it shows that a bit of the old cowardice is still there.

[Avejajed]

I think there is mismatch going on with Well of Sorrows concept.

As I understand, Abelas&Co were stationed at Mythal's Temple to guard it, meaning, the Well was there during Mythal's life. We also know, that every servant of Mythal would pass their knowledge on through the Well of Sorrows. My point is that it's either Mythal's servants were not immortal (which is unlikely, I think), or they filled the Well before/during Uthenera.

 

EDIT: and as you can see in this screen, there are actually 7 eluvians near the Well. My guess - they connect elven pantheon's temples, all of them, but Fen'harel's. Not entirely relevant to my previous ranting, but curious none the less.

 

 

If anyone doesn't have a temple it's Ghilan'nan. I really don't like her for some reason. She's the only one who we know for sure wasn't a god to begin with. June's the only other questionable one. Nothing like that has ever been rumored about Fen'harel.

[vierrae]

If anyone doesn't have a temple it's Ghilan'nan. I really don't like her for some reason. She's the only one who we know for sure wasn't a god to begin with. June's the only other questionable one. Nothing like that has ever been rumored about Fen'harel.

Either way, one of them is evidently out of this "Gods only" treehouse

[dragondreamer]

I have a hard time comparing Fenris and Solas in terms of tragedy, because the scale is so different.  Fenris is tragic on a personal level, but he can be happy, also on a personal level.  This is true, with or without Hawke.  Solas is tragic on an epic scale, and while he has the potential to be happy, I don't know if he'll let himself. 

 

My canon Lavellan was the most well-adjusted, normal, happy elf that Thedas had possibly ever seen.  Naturally she romanced Solas, pff.

[Avejajed]

Either way, one of them is evidently out of this "Gods only" treehouse

 

I'm not being argumentative on purpose. lol. I just really dislike Ghilanan'hanasldkfjasldf whaetverthefuckhernameis. 

 

And for some reason I dislike the idea that Fen'harel wasn't really a god.

[RebbyWriter]

Finally finished working on Falon'Din. It took me a looonnng time to do but I hope you guys like it!

 

http://mypixelmuse.t...-dead-the-guide

 

I put it in a link because of multiple pictures and, not sure if everyone here is comfortable with tons of half nekkid people.

[Addai]

I think there is mismatch going on with Well of Sorrows concept.

As I understand, Abelas&Co were stationed at Mythal's Temple to guard it, meaning, the Well was there during Mythal's life. We also know, that every servant of Mythal would pass their knowledge on through the Well of Sorrows. My point is that it's either Mythal's servants were not immortal (which is unlikely, I think), or they filled the Well before/during Uthenera.

 

EDIT: and as you can see in this screen, there are actually 7 eluvians near the Well. My guess - they connect elven pantheon's temples, all of them, but Fen'harel's. Not entirely relevant to my previous ranting, but curious none the less.

 

*snip*

Interesting shot, I never noticed that. Funny how you can miss the forest for the trees. (elfy metaphor)

 

I assumed the priests eventually chose to give up their lives permanently, like a blood sacrifice. Only it's a juju sacrifice.

[vierrae]

I'm not being argumentative on purpose. lol. I just really dislike Ghilanan'hanasldkfjasldf whaetverthefuckhernameis. 

 

And for some reason I dislike the idea that Fen'harel wasn't really a god.

We're having a discussion, all civilized, aren't we?   Ghily is hard to like, considering all these weird experiments.

I don't deny Fen'Harel's godhood, I just doubt he'd fancy having a temple.

[modernfan]

When you think of it, it just seems like poor Solas' job will never be done.  This makes me incredibly sad for him.  And really, who else can step in and maintain balance in the world?  His only contemporary, Mythal, is currently without a host, and she basically held down the fort for the last 1000 years while he rested to regain his strength.  It makes me less than hopeful that Solas can ever be free enough of his duty to have any personal happiness.  And it's not that I'm sad for Lavellen - she will survive, but she'll have to miss him for a short time compared to eternity for Solas.  I just can't stand that for him.

 

I think being a God has to be the worst curse of all in Thedas.

[bunniebean]

Listening to my playlist catching up on the tread. This song started and i can totally see Solas singing this to his vhenan!

Great song regardless!

Spoiler

  

Spoiler

No, I'm not the man I used to be lately
See, you met me at an interesting time
And if my past is any sign of your future
You should be warned before I let you inside

[Chorus]
Hold on to whatever you find, baby
Hold on to whatever will get you through
Hold on to whatever you find, baby
I don't trust myself with lovin' you

I will beg my way into your garden
Then I'll break my way out when it rains
Just to get back to the place where I started
So I can want you back all over again
(I don't really understand)

[Chorus]

Who do you love?
Girl, I see through, through your love
Who do you love?
Me or the thought of me?
Me or the thought of me?

[Chorus]

Hold on to whatever you find, baby
Hold on to whatever will get you through
Hold on to whatever you find, baby
I don't trust myself with lovin' you
I don't trust myself with lovin' you
I don't trust myself with lovin' you
I don't trust myself with lovin' you
I don't trust myself with lovin' you
I don't trust myself with lovin' you.

[dragondreamer]

I'm not being argumentative on purpose. lol. I just really dislike Ghilanan'hanasldkfjasldf whaetverthefuckhernameis. 

 

And for some reason I dislike the idea that Fen'harel wasn't really a god.

 

Sure he was a god, but it depends on your definition of a god.  Solas doesn't seem to think he was, though.

[BoscoBread]

I have a hard time comparing Fenris and Solas in terms of tragedy, because the scale is so different.  Fenris is tragic on a personal level, but he can be happy, also on a personal level.  This is true, with or without Hawke.  Solas is tragic on an epic scale, and while he has the potential to be happy, I don't know if he'll let himself. 

 

My canon Lavellan was the most well-adjusted, normal, happy elf that Thedas had possibly ever seen.  Naturally she romanced Solas, pff.

Yeah. I have to agree. They are so different and I don't like the 'well my hurt is worse than yours'.  Fenris SUFFERED.  So does Solas and I think we've really only seen the tip of the iceberg with that one. 

 

I think it makes sense that the happy elf found the sad/grumpy elf. She made him happy. He was truly happy with the Inquisition especially with Lavellan.  Ugh...to know what he had to go back to and still go back to it.  Back into the hellspiral I fly. 

[RogueBait]

<snip>

 

I meant the Lavellan in your convo's picked up on Hawke's talent for inappropriate flirting 

 

Haha, clearly I need to replay DA2! I uh... may have only played it the once.

 

Though I have to say, Inquisition's end game revelations do make me want to replay both DA games. Mostly so I can thoroughly comb them for Elven lore and hints. Because, fffffgh. What is going to happening now I must get to the knowing of this. *brain melt*