And don't apologize for sharing Zah Knowledge.
We stone people for that here. Don't get started on what Madrar would do to you if you held back.
I apologize for everything. I'm Canadian, I can't help it! *mumbles something sounding vaguely like 'sowwy'*
I've apologized to my companions more times than I can count playing this blasted game. Sorry, Dorian! Sorry! Sorry! Oop, sorry! My Lavellan would be the goddess of apologies or something. *sorry god*
I bolded for context.
But what I got from what Morrigan tells you is that the ritual will somehow force the archdemon's soul into the child. Whether it is tricking it into thinking it chooses the child or if it really goes against the archdemon's will to rather jump into the nearest darkspawn it doesn't say.
Also if there is no child, I have no idea. Never gone that route.
As I said, I have no problem with the child, I wonder about what does an archdemon usually do.
I never took Alistair to avoid him sacrificing himself. But I read that if you take him, he will land the killing blow and die. This seems weird to me if the OGS can "choose" where to go. Why prefer Alistair, who's been tainted for longer, to my Warden? But if the OGS always hopped into the slayer and not the most suitable host around, thing would seem even more blurry to me.
So do I understand correctly that you... don't know either?
Btw, while we're talking, I am curious about your Architect/Corypheus fascination. Would you care to explain?
I was just offering up what primitive scraps of clues I had. 
I have that vague theory, but that's all, I'm afraid.
So yes.
The Architect has a very alien mindset that's fascinating to witness. He's simultaneously a gentleman and a monster, and the contrast between the two makes all of his scenes in The Calling and Awakening that much more intriguing. When he's horrifying, he's horrifying on a higher scale than the typical darkspawn, because we only expect savagery from normal darkspawn. He reminds me of the Vord Queen in Codex Alera. A monster honestly trying to be human but failing in spectacular fashion to mimic us just wigs me out, personally.
And yet, he's an ancient darkspawn magister trying to save the world from his own mistakes, knowingly or not. He's utterly ruthless, but with noble goals. Debating the righteousness of characters like that against myself is, as the saying goes, 'my jam'. 
Jamie Glover's phenomenal voice-acting and the fabulous character design doesn't hurt either.
Corypheus proved to be shockingly sympathetic, while still being a complete (and kind of literal) asshat. This is an ancient sorcerer of Tevinter. He was High Priest of Dumat, the most powerful of the Old Gods. But their place in Tevinter society was evidently being eroded. So they got together, and they broke into the very heavens for aid.
And instead of their gods, they found power that nearly ended the world.
There's a very powerful story there, one I find much more compelling than the Chantry version of the Maker just casting them down in anger. Solas is lonely because he quite likely cast his brethren into imprisonment for their own well-being, and the safety of Thedas. Corypheus is lonely and betrayed because his faith has been shattered. He built his life around Dumat and the Imperium. And not only did it backfire in his wonky face, but he woke up in a world where the Imperium that was his world was just a pathetic shell, the sort of tired, bleeding empire he would have sunk below the earth back in the day.
So he goes a little crazy. He's determined that this world deserves a god, a god that answers their phone calls and actually lives in the goddamn Golden City like they were told. Corypheus genuinely seems to think he's helping the world by 'restoring' it to that theocratic Tevinter vision of Thedas, rather than the Magocracy with mysterious and absent gods that it seemed to end up being.
And again, David Sterne did some powerful voice-acting, and Corypheus's word-choice was often delightfully poetic.
Add in to all of this that I grew up enthralled by stories of Rome. More specifically, the stories of those who fought desperately against the odds to prevent the Empire from dying. As much as I adore Scipio Africanus and Cinncinatus, there's something so moving about men like Flavius Aetius, deadset on keeping the old wolf from dying of a thousand wounds. (Yes I did just re-watch the Attila trailer. 
) And I love wizards and magic, and dark wizards who have more nuance than 'cackling old man, possibly on demon-meth'. And the darkspawn have always been a great, nightmarish foe.
I apologize for everything. I'm Canadian, I can't help it! *mumbles something sounding vaguely like 'sowwy'*
I've apologized to my companions more times than I can count playing this blasted game. Sorry, Dorian! Sorry! Sorry! Oop, sorry! My Lavellan would be the goddess of apologies or something. *sorry god*
That's awesome. We need more Canadians here. Can you keep this up? (Btw, you did not apologize to BioWare for saying "blasted game".)
See, Caddius, you are only almost one. 
I apologize for everything. I'm Canadian, I can't help it! *mumbles something sounding vaguely like 'sowwy'*
I've apologized to my companions more times than I can count playing this blasted game. Sorry, Dorian! Sorry! Sorry! Oop, sorry! My Lavellan would be the goddess of apologies or something. *sorry god*
Canadian born and raised right here!
I apologize for everything all the time, don't sweat it.
I definitely am stretching it - by the time you get to specializations Lavellan has been there for some time. She's fought with Cassandra and trained with Cullen's men. She may be intrigued by their skills.
At the end of the day, though, the warriors get a pretty nice flirt line. And isn't that what we're all here for????
Wow! She is a cutie... And that works. It definitely works.
The Architect ...
Corypheus ...
I must confess, I never made up my mind about the Architect, not really. I let him live every time (except for one, stupid peer pressure) but not for him but because I might have been a bit too much like the Wardens thinking "It might help to stop the Blights and make the world better". I like all that "can't we live together peacefully" nonsense, even though I know it is nonsense because usually neither side really wants to make it happen. But as to him... However, I never read one of the books so I assume I am missing quite a big bit of information to be able to really picture him, I assume?
Corypheus... I don't know if he wants to "help" the world. He wants to improve it, yes, what he considers and improvement. But I don't think he thinks about the world and the majority of people and such. He has a very particular type of leadership in mind and he only ares for a particular goup of people (Tevinter magisters as he knew them). This does seem rather egoistic to me.
As I said, I have no problem with the child, I wonder about what does an archdemon usually do.
I never took Alistair to avoid him sacrificing himself. But I read that if you take him, he will land the killing blow and die. This seems weird to me if the OGS can "choose" where to go. Why prefer Alistair, who's been tainted for longer, to my Warden? But if the OGS always hopped into the slayer and not the most suitable host around, thing would seem even more blurry to me.
It could be the sacrifice, right? In slaying the Archdemon, a Warden makes the choice to die - following the theme of the importance of "choice". I... kind of want to believe that a small part of an Archdemon is not all bad, and the "jump" into the Warden's body is the OGS knowing it will die - and hoping to hitch a ride with the Warden to whatever the afterlife destination of the Warden's soul will be.
Now I am seeing Old Gods as Shinigami and have super sympathy for them ;-;
The sooner we find out what OGS actually are, the better!
Siha: Yeah, Corypheus is an egotistical, posh, theocratic nightmare from the early days of human civilization. His version of 'helping' the world is restoring the Imperium that saw him at the very peak of power, influence, and prestige. He's also mildly insane. (I blame the lyrium.) Helping the world doesn't mean helping the peasants, it holds 'higher' purpose than that. It's arrogance and cultural posturing to the extreme, but it's a very understandable motivation. If most modern-day Americans were sent back into the past and somehow stumbled into influence and power, I'd hope that they'd try to change, say, 19th Century America to be a little less...shall we say, teensy bit racist?
It's just that the culture Corypheus misses is a scary, scary-ass one.
Siha: Yeah, Corypheus is an egotistical, posh, theocratic nightmare from the early days of human civilization. His version of 'helping' the world is restoring the Imperium that saw him at the very peak of power, influence, and prestige. He's also mildly insane. (I blame the lyrium.) Helping the world doesn't mean helping the peasants, it holds 'higher' purpose than that. It's arrogance and cultural posturing to the extreme, but it's a very understandable motivation. If most modern-day Americans were sent back into the past and somehow stumbled into influence and power, I'd hope that they'd try to change, say, 19th Century America to be a little less...shall we say, teensy bit racist?
It's just that the culture Corypheus misses is a scary, scary-ass one.
I mean, our big racism thing happened that century so I'll need sometime specific to determine how teensy I should go. Rest assured I will make sure they're nicer to the Irish.
Fascinating analysis, thank you! And I agree- I'm in the INTP camp and am delighted that he's such a compelling example. Not that a character needs to fit a type, but it points to why he feels so real.Hello heartbroken unicorns!
I meant to post half a hundred years ago but it's taken me a month of concerted effort to make it to page 1272, so ...
*snip*
How do you know he doesn't? Duncan and Riordan assume that he won't, but the amount the Wardens actually know would fit into their Joining chalice. The only thing I'd add, for interest, is that Gaider once said in the forums that the archdemon's soul first passes through the one taking the killing blow even if it moves on to the child. That's why it still has to be a Warden doing it.I accept the child. I assume it is just stronger, potentially will have a longer lifespan for being born that way. But I don't understand the archdemon's choice in case there's only Wardens and no child. I'd still go for the one who's been tainted for a shorter time...
It could be the sacrifice, right? In slaying the Archdemon, a Warden makes the choice to die - following the theme of the importance of "choice". I... kind of want to believe that a small part of an Archdemon is not all bad, and the "jump" into the Warden's body is the OGS knowing it will die - and hoping to hitch a ride with the Warden to whatever the afterlife destination of the Warden's soul will be.
Ohhh, I get it! You mean it's Flemeth's "A soul is not forced on the unwilling"-thing all over? Now, that's a good point. I like that. It would make a lot of things more consistent.
But just imagine if the OGS were not at all corrupted themselves but only in dire need. Maybe like having to find a (mentally) weak host to even be able to gain a foothold. So they use the Darkspawn (dragons) for no other reason than despair.
It would still need an explanation why they then start to destroy everything around, but maybe being inside the tainted being is what actually corrupts them. Or such.
I still wonder what happened to the OGS of the first Blights, prior to Morrigan (possibly). I assume they are somewhere still. After all some people have a Kieran while others don't. To make this little difference be "unimportant" there must be a plan B, a way to bring the OGS back without Kieran, too. So I assume the slaying of the archdemon does not kill the soul, it must go somewhere afterwards.
My bikes were missing handles... LOVE handles. Elven love handles. ANCIENT ELVHEN love handles.
out of likes!! grrr so have a gif instead.
If most modern-day Americans were sent back into the past and somehow stumbled into influence and power, I'd hope that they'd try to change, say, 19th Century America to be a little less...shall we say, teensy bit racist?
One would hope so. But I would rather hope they would not try to change anything, never knowing the consequences. You cannot just go back, change a bit and hope that the world will evolve just the same except for one single aspect, which will turn out better. If Hitler were killed as a child, would Nazi Germany never have existed? Or would simply somebody else, more capable have taken his place and really managed to conquer everything? We wouldn't know. I assume most people (who would even think of improving the world when traveling back in time in the first place) might also consider such implications and refrain from just doing anything that might mess up bad.
Siha: Yeah, Corypheus is an egotistical, posh, theocratic nightmare from the early days of human civilization. His version of 'helping' the world is restoring the Imperium that saw him at the very peak of power, influence, and prestige. He's also mildly insane. (I blame the lyrium.) Helping the world doesn't mean helping the peasants, it holds 'higher' purpose than that. It's arrogance and cultural posturing to the extreme, but it's a very understandable motivation. If most modern-day Americans were sent back into the past and somehow stumbled into influence and power, I'd hope that they'd try to change, say, 19th Century America to be a little less...shall we say, teensy bit racist?
It's just that the culture Corypheus misses is a scary, scary-ass one.
This is something both Cory and Solas seem to have in common: they wish to "restore" the world to what it was "back then". An interesting thing about Cory is that a part of his motivation to become a god is the fact that "the Golden City was black and empty"; he wants to become a real god so no one will have to pray to an entity that does not exist. It's twisted, sure, but understandable. And Solas apparently wishes (or wished) to free people from the influence of gods... so they are both opposites and Not So Different from each other.
How do you know he doesn't? Duncan and Riordan assume that he won't, but the amount the Wardens actually know would fit into their Joining chalice. The only thing I'd add, for interest, is that Gaider once said in the forums that the archdemon's soul first passes through the one taking the killing blow even if it moves on to the child. That's why it still has to be a Warden doing it.
I don't. I only heard if I take Alistair he will sacrifice himself. But he's been tainted longer than me. So why does the OGS not move on to me and Alistair dies?
Thank yo for point out about the passing through, I did not know that.
One would hope so. But I would rather hope they would not try to change anything, never knowing the consequences. You cannot just go back, change a bit and hope that the world will evolve just the same except for one single aspect, which will turn out better. If Hitler were killed as a child, would Nazi Germany never have existed? Or would simply somebody else, more capable have taken his place and really managed to conquer everything? We wouldn't know. I assume most people (who would even think of improving the world when traveling back in time in the first place) might also consider such implications and refrain from just doing anything that might mess up bad.
In Hitler's case, I think it's safe to say someone else would have taken his place. I think it was Himmler who was going to run for head of the Nazi party, but his wife talked him down in favor of Hitler. (Way to go, wifey. )
But I was just throwing an example out of my hat. A better one would be an American who goes forward in time and doesn't have to worry about accidentally wiping himself out of existence. But it's a degraded, cyber-punk society run by corporations, and there's this crazy samurai guy delivering pizzas for the Mafia. Do you embrace the new civilization, or do you hold onto your own? Do you keep away from other people and try to maintain it, (Dalish) or do you destroy neighboring 'alien' cultures (Orlais.)? Or just plain take over? (Coryflora).
The only thing about the OGS not being malevolent is that we hear its thoughts in Darkspawn Chronicles, and they're not nice thoughts (like little jewels). But feel free to disregard that awful DLC entirely.
I never played this. I imagined it would feel like making everything I had fought for feel pointless. Stupid idea maybe but I did not deliberately want to destroy what I had build up myself.
So my question is not based on any fact or knowledge, but how were the thoughts delivered? Maybe it was the Darkspawn interpretation that was heard? You know, I want to get at that psychological communication theory. That while sender A has a particular meaning in mind, receiver B will understand something very different, though both operate on the same message. Maybe the Darkspawn (
interpreted the OGS thoughts in a fashion natural to them, understanding them as evil, while actually only distorting the meaning based on their own bias. (Do my words make any sense?)
I am not sure how much we should rely on information from such a DLC.
OMFG I need to see the Fifth Element again!!! Best. Bad. Movie. Ever. I will love it til the day I die.
I love the Fifth Element, but I have a very real fear of the diva. It's silly, I just can't watch her scenes. I've come to the conclusion that this is just me since no one else seems to have the same psychological problem. I don't even know why I have it, she terrifies me.
As Dr Who would say, there are fixed points in time that cannot be changed. Dr Who applies to everything. EVERYTHING!
It's meant to be the OGS communicating to his lieutenants through the hive mind. Don't think about it too much. Leliana appears at the final battle wearing a Chantry robe. I always thought she was a dippy broad, but even I gave her more credit than that.I never played this. I imagined it would feel like making everything I had fought for feel pointless. Stupid idea maybe but I did not deliberately want to destroy what I had build up myself.
So my question is not based on any fact or knowledge, but how were the thoughts delivered? Maybe it was the Darkspawn interpretation that was heard? You know, I want to get at that psychological communication theory. That while sender A has a particular meaning in mind, receiver B will understand something very different, though both operate on the same message. Maybe the Darkspawn (
I am not sure how much we should rely on information from such a DLC.
I never played this. I imagined it would feel like making everything I had fought for feel pointless. Stupid idea maybe but I did not deliberately want to destroy what I had build up myself.
So my question is not based on any fact or knowledge, but how were the thoughts delivered? Maybe it was the Darkspawn interpretation that was heard? You know, I want to get at that psychological communication theory. That while sender A has a particular meaning in mind, receiver B will understand something very different, though both operate on the same message. Maybe the Darkspawn (
I am not sure how much we should rely on information from such a DLC.
The Archdemon's thoughts were delivered in hissing, but there was text captions, if I remember correctly. They were largely instructions for 'kill this captain, and his soldiers will falter', 'Don't be a ******. Use the Shrieks to kill the artillery operators and sow discord, then bust the gate with the Ogre. End it quickly.' and 'OHSHIT OHSHIT OHSHIT GREY WARDENS EVERYONE COME TO ME GREY WARDENS OH NOES I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT OH NO!' I only played it the once.
I was real proud of how many times Sten killed me in the boss fight. 
What was very interesting was that, in this DLC, Urthemiel had a very clear understanding of psychological warfare and tactics. As shown in the main game when he sends Tamlen as a Shriek after the Dalish Warden. That is a very deliberate, malicious act designed to throw her off her game.
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