153434 réponses à ce sujet

[Colonelkillabee]

I thought it was completely idiotic, and based on the premise that all would be lost in Thedas without our Mary Sue Warden.

Well, mary sue or not, it would have

[Caddius]

I thought it was completely idiotic, and based on the premise that all would be lost in Thedas without our Mary Sue Warden.

Not quite the way I saw it.

I mean, it wasn't a great DLC. It was amusing and interesting to play as a darkspawn. It lacks the emotional bombast and beauty that the Battle of Denerim has when you're playing as the Warden, but it was still interesting.

The Battle is lost by inches, though. Alistair and company gathered the armies and went straight for the Archdemon. Riordan did the thing.       They even die in the midst of assassinating Urthemiel.

It's just that the Vanguard gets the upper hand in the individual fight.

Or, as it was in my case, that if an Ogre beats the mage in the anti-Archdemon party to death, it's hard to win that boss fight.   I don't blame poor Ali.

But yeah, the Hero of Ferelden is hilariously Mary Sue. 

[Illyria]

You can play as an Ogre and do Grab and have the Ogre punch Arl Howe in the face repeatedly.

What's not to like?

 

Exactly!  And don't forget Vaughn and Goldanna! 

[Avejajed]

Morning. Where are we at on the topic chart because if we are at theories I'm gonna need coffee before I return.

[Caddius]

I'm starting to think the old gods might've been already tainted.. They, including the wardens hear the song before they're awakened, we've never seen an archdemon before they're considered archdemons. The wardens may think the same since they just refer to them as archdemon, tainted or not. But then, they are idiots.

 

But the biggest piece of evidence for me is that the Architect was putting DARKSPAWN through these joining rituals right? And he attempted to do so to Urthemiel right?

 

Doesn't that suggest he was already tainted?

Hmm. Interesting idea.

Perhaps the idea was for the Joining to turn Urthemiel into an Archdemon, as that's inevitable, but also Awaken him at the same point?

Huh. Intriguing thought. The whole point of the Awakening is that it makes the individual darkspawn sapient and separates them from the hive-mind to an extent, yes? As well as cutting them off from the Song, going off the Mother's screaming at the Architect over this.

Did the Architect believe he could cut off Urthemiel from the Song and the compulsion of something else? Does he know more than he lets on? When they're tainted into Archdemons, assuming they're not already corrupted, does the Blight direct them, not the Old God? (It could explain why the Old God soul dives for a Grey Warden or baby if it can. Either oblivion or a desperate escape attempt.)

I'm now in the 'Old Gods are already Tainted to an extent' camp.

Except that the Architect talks about how the Song is purer before the darkspawn get to them.

Arrgh!

(Maybe their voice is hoarse by that point? )

Dejajeva: You better get some coffee, we're in the theory part of the cycle. 

[Siha]

Maaaaybe...

Have I mentioned that Kelsier is one of my favorite characters from Mistborn?

And the Lord-Ruler is as well? 

 

Oh come on, admit it! I'm good!

You know, you might have stroke through "male" but your further explanations only underline it. Is there no strong female you could mention?

 

As for the rest -- in total ignorance of the Darkspawn Chronicles -- I must support Addai, I am sorry. That's just what I said about Hitler/Himmler/anyone before. It's never one person alone.

 

Edit: So Fen'Harel locked them away because they were tainted already?

[Sister Squish]

Hmmm... if archdemons aren't in fact Old Gods and are just their bodily prisons, then how were the Old Gods sealed into them?

 

Flemeth says a soul can't be forced upon the unwilling. I'm assuming that's true the other way around too: you can't force an unwilling soul to join with another. What then would be an Old God's incentive for entering a high dragon's body? It's even more puzzling if that high dragon's already blighted.

 

Or perhaps blight overrides consent through the song?

 

The Wardens were hearing the Calling early en masse because the one thing Wardens fear above everything else is the Calling, and Nightmare was able to tap into that to wreak havoc on them. 

I think it's more that the Taint has advanced within them to the point that they start to become full on hybridized darkspawn. As seen in The Calling, they resemble darkspawn in appearance but with some minor alterations. So they basically 'evolve' to the point where they can tune into the Old God's radio channel like the rest of the darkspawn do. I don't think the Old God really cares for the difference between Wardens and darkspawn, it just knows that it can manipulate these tainted creatures to break open its cage.

Question: Why do the darkspawn hear the Old God's Song in the first place? The Old Gods are supposedly not tainted until the darkspawn interact with them while opening the cage, possibly by using blood to open the prison. Is it, perhaps, because they were sealed in the first place due to being powerful beings exposed to the Blight?

Say, seven gods sealed away by Fen'harel until such a time as he could find a cure for the Blight? (Or just, y'know, leave them there.) 

And they're tapping into the TaintXM Station to call for help, from all the darkspawn buggers the Magisters seem to have unleashed.

 

Ok trying to respond before I need to head off! 

Spoiler

1> I am in the camp of believing that dragons are just dragons, high dragons particularly intelligent dragons. I think maybe an Archdemon is an OGS stuck in a dragon body corrupted by the blight. Blood magic is the only way the Wardens know of to imprison Corypheus safely. We know of the power of dragon blood when used in blood magic spells, which is the reasoning behind why continuous flow of enchanted dragon-blood may be the only substance capable of holding an OGS imprisoned in a body... and the Blight keeps it significantly maddened (as it does for anyone infected) and surrounded by darkspawn so as to not be able to comprehensibly call for help.  

  But, this is all an opinion so others may think of the Archdemon as a whole entity in itself. 

 

2> Where is it specifically said that nightmare was responsible for the Calling? Genuine question, I do not recall that! I remember being told how frightened the Wardens were due to hearing the Calling, and turning to the evil mage guy out of fear. And then we, in desperation when falling, open a rift and fall into the Fade where we meet Nightmare. Though Nightmare taunts us with Corypheus' voice, and there is a giant evil thing waiting for us at the end, I didn't think there was anything to evidence that Nightmare was anything more than a powerful spirit? Especially since Cole is convinced he could so easily become Nightmare. A spirit in the Fade, in theory, could choose to be perceived as the landscape around you; and the boss at the end is apparently just an "aspect of the nightmare". 

 The wiki does say however, "some corrupted entities [like Corpheus] can imitate the call of an Old God similar to what the Grey Wardens hear... this can even allow Wardens to be controlled against their will". 

 So I guess that answers what happened in DAI.... although I like my version better ;-; 

 

3> I agree with the possibility of the OGSouls being trapped intentionally - by Fen'Harel? Or expelled along with the magisters from the Fade when breaching the Golden City? Multiple possibilities. 

 

4> I have to disagree with "hybridised darkspawn" idea, however. From World of Thedas: 

Anatomy of the Blight

 The Wardens teach that the catalyst of the Blight is the awakening of an Old God lurking somewhere down below. When the darkspawn find and wake one, the Old God is corrupted, creating an Archdemon. 

  As the darkspawn advance to the surface, the land around them is sucked of moisture, bringing a wasting force that blackens the earth and withers plants to dust. The sky fills with rolling black clouds that block the sun. Where the darkspawn go, disease and rot follow. The degenerative diseases born of the taint persist and spread long after the Blight is over. 

  With the exception of the Fifth Blight, which started and stopped in Ferelden, Blights have historically brought all civilised races to the edge of destruction before the Wardens managed to destroy the Archdemon. 

 

  I find "degenerative diseases born of the taint" interesting. Diseases and decay are symptoms of the taint, but taint is not a disease itself. The taint is what we refer to when we mean that someone or something has been infected with the symptoms. 

  This makes me think of the entire Blight as more a collection of dark powers/abilities working in tandem... referring back to the analogy of "Pestilence" of the Four Horseman. 

 

  My theorising on the Song would be getting back into Tin-Foil Hat territory I am afraid 

 

Ok I have to get to class, see you guys later!

[SeaBassChen]

Sidelining from the ancient elf conversation, there's another interesting point in Gaider's essay:

 

 

When I read this I was like, what? I remember reading a codex entry somewhere that the Chantry considered the Old Gods the Maker's First Children.

 

Upon digging through the wiki however, it turns out this info's found in one of the Dissonant Verses, namely the Canticle of Silence, Verse 3:

 

 

And that's just, why exactly would the Chantry makes this a dissonant verse? The only other dissonant verse we know of's in the Canticle of Shartan, which was removed because they had Andraste promising the Dales to the elves there, a promise that the Chantry then reneged on when they launched the Exalted March.

 

But the Canticle of Silence... what exactly's so damaging about having the Old Gods labeled as the Maker's first children? Making them the Maker's first children brings them a level below the Maker after all, so it's actually even complimentary to the Chantry.

 

Why remove it then?

 

Without the Canticle of Silence, the first children being referred to in the Chant are the spirits of the Fade, with mankind being second.

 

So, do they not want the Old Gods associated with spirits? Or do they not want them associated with the Maker? And why?

 

I heard a conversation between two people who just hang out in the main Skyhold hall, and one of them said that the Chantry believes the Old Gods are the Maker's First Children. I found it so odd because I've never heard that before, but this codex entry makes it seem like they once believed it, but decided to strike it from canon. Why, exactly? It is really suspicious. I'm not inclined to believe that the Old Gods are the ancient Elven gods, either, not after hearing that and reading what David Gaider wrote all those years ago about how the Old Gods wanted the humans to destroy Arlathan.

[Colonelkillabee]

Hmm. Interesting idea.

Perhaps the idea was for the Joining to turn Urthemiel into an Archdemon, as that's inevitable, but also Awaken him at the same point?

Huh. Intriguing thought. The whole point of the Awakening is that it makes the individual darkspawn sapient and separates them from the hive-mind to an extent, yes? As well as cutting them off from the Song, going off the Mother's screaming at the Architect over this.

Did the Architect believe he could cut off Urthemiel from the Song and the compulsion of something else? Does he know more than he lets on? When they're tainted into Archdemons, assuming they're not already corrupted, does the Blight direct them, not the Old God? (It could explain why the Old God soul dives for a Grey Warden or baby if it can. Either oblivion or a desperate escape attempt.)

I'm now in the 'Old Gods are already Tainted to an extent' camp.

Except that the Architect talks about how the Song is purer before the darkspawn get to them.

Arrgh!

(Maybe their voice is hoarse by that point? )

Dejajeva: You better get some coffee, we're in the theory part of the cycle. 

 

True, he does say that... the song is also much more powerful when they are asleep evidently if it's so loud that it shakes the earth when close. My guess, their song is simply more powerful when they are subdued because it is the only sense available to them, and they've been using it for years and years. Like a blind man's sense of hearing.

 

I guess it is possible that the architect wanted to taint, then awaken it... that'd make him very stupid though. Which certainly is nothing new for DA I characters. Maybe you could even blame the taint.

 

My money's on the old gods directing the darkspawn though, not the taint, or the broodmothers, and ogres wouldn't wait for OGs to be awakened for their onslaught.

[dragondreamer]

The Architect may have unknowingly been doing what all good blighted beings are supposed to do:  serve the Old Gods.  And the Old Gods are screaming (in a pretty song), "come to me".  It's like what Solas says about someone under a particular geas always serving the gods, whether they know it or not.  The Architect infects the Old God with the Blight, which is exactly what it wanted.  It's the only way for it to free itself.

 

 

I heard a conversation between two people who just hang out in the main Skyhold hall, and one of them said that the Chantry believes the Old Gods are the Maker's First Children. I found it so odd because I've never heard that before, but this codex entry makes it seem like they once believed it, but decided to strike it from canon. Why, exactly? It is really suspicious. I'm not inclined to believe that the Old Gods are the ancient Elven gods, either, not after hearing that and reading what David Gaider wrote all those years ago about how the Old Gods wanted the humans to destroy Arlathan.

 

This reminds me of the speculation that the elves may have been the Maker's First Children, especially if they were originally manifested spirits, and had a half physical/half spirit nature.  But the official Chantry belief is that spirits are the Maker's First Children.  There's some people discussing Chantry lore in the hall that clearly don't understand a lot about it and they're trying to sort that out.  But I also think those dialogues might be there to make us question the lore as well.

 

As for why elven gods would want to destroy Arlathan: There were at least two different factions of ancient elves.  The Creators and the Forgotten Ones warred with each other.  So the Forgotten Ones would not have looked kindly on Arlathan, which worshipped the Creators.  It's like Solas pointing out that just because the modern elves are elves, doesn't make them his "people".

[Caddius]

Oh come on, admit it! I'm good!

You know, you might have stroke through "male" but your further explanations only underline it. Is there no strong female you could mention?

 

As for the rest -- in total ignorance of the Darkspawn Chronicles -- I must support Addai, I am sorry. That's just what I said about Hitler/Himmler/anyone before. It's never one person alone.

 

Edit: So Fen'Harel locked them away because they were tainted already?

My fiance. Get her within sight of a revolution she'd be behind, and Robespierre and Lenin would quietly stand aside, taking notes, wide-eyed. 

Kasumi in the Dresden Files, but she hasn't gotten much attention.

Arguably Melissandre from A Song of Ice and Fire.

Revan from Knights of the Old Republic. Gaider said he always considered Revan female, I don't care what LucasArts says. More specifically, the interpretation of Revan that Kreia offers.

From what little we saw of her, Calpernia even fits a little. She's even Tevinter. 

But for some reason, most writers have Bryonic hero types as being male. In the giant mess of notes of my story I'm going through, I'm a little befuddled to find a character somewhat similar to Solas in there, with his daughter as the Bryonic Hero/? that takes it much farther than he ever did.  Caddius of three years ago must have had visions of Inquisition or something. Come to think of it, I even based my Lavellan a little off of her.

[Avejajed]

I like to see him suffer just as much as you do but it's still Cass...


Not that I would ever do such a thing, but you could flirt with both, start a relationship with Blackwall, run with it for as long as you like, dump him maybe in his personal quest (not sure where his lock in point is and you cannot break up with him in normal conversations) and then go speak to Cullen. Just a very hypothetical idea.


Oh my god, that London punk attitude and the prohibited sign in the back! I wouldn't mind him follow me around applauding me for whatever I do (with the sign, if possible).


In Skyhold? Where is he? When does he show up? Can I kill him and loot the armor?


I pity that poor man for having to sell his body. BioWare, you monster, can't you pay your voice actors enough to keep them off the streets?
How much is that anyway, if you want a video like that? The site does not tell and I am curious (serious question).


Thank you for clearing this up. And if you could answer my second big question I'd be much obliged. So: The OGS will jump into the body of Morrigan's baby because it is... what, youngest? Hence, strongest? If there were two Wardens, say Duncan and Alistair, would that not mean that the OGS jumps into Alistair, no matter who lands the killing blow? Why does this not work? Because the guiding Warden (I cannot remember his name!) said beforehand he would sacrifice himself but it might not come to that. So how exactly does the OGS decide where to go?


Well, in the first place it will mean not deciding your armor based on color. (I only make Siha look good, the others can look like rag bags.) Even if one metal or cloth looks bad it might still be better. And I tend to craft my armor after the most difficult foes I will meet. Say you have a problem with rage demons, invest in fire resistance. I actually only really craft and plan for dragons, but on the first run it's not bad to consider extra protections against others, too.

I have a very different opinion about (rogue and) warrior approaches than the Colonel, but you can go with his and I'll just fix it if his advice (as we must assume will happen) messes up your game.
So I will just add some general ideas:

You can beat any difficulty, at least if you start micromanaging. Use tactical camera, tell every character what to do, let time elapse a few seconds, then repeat. You play Xbox so it will be good. I love the tactical camera. And this way you control everything and it will work out fine. Maybe turn off friendly fire.
I strongly advise not to let a 2-handed warrior (Bull) run around alone. He tends to get himself dead easily. It's safer to give him a sword and shield instead. I only play 2-handed myself, the others are always shielded. (Or micromanage.)
If an enemy is too difficult for one character, move him out of range. If you have trouble securing weaker companions, let them run around the battlefield constantly while your warriors (or some mage out of sigh) attack the enemies. Not the nicest approach but will work. Only take care to switch roles in case the demons notice and just start focusing on another one.
You know you cannot map many skills, so consider upgrading passive skills first. They are usually very important.
And I don't use anything but health and regeneration potion. I would not waste one of my two slots on a bomb or such, they don't do enough damage to sacrifice a companion (my opinion). I played my first playthrough with bombs, but only take potions ever since.
Oh, and when you see you cannot win because everyone is dead and only Varric is left with minimum health... run.

I think I might like you after all.

[Colonelkillabee]

Here's another idea. We're told that it was the magisters who tainted and made darkspawn, but the blight started underground after they located dumat....

 

So, the only sources of the taint originally that we have are the black city, the magisters that came from the black city... and possibly Dumat, who is who the lore actually credits for multiplying and making Darkspawn when he attacked the undergroung thaigs of the dwarves.

 

That leaves the possibility of the darkspawn taint already being in dumat, and the magisters, after being tainted, only were able to locate and wake them up.

[Siha]

My fiance. Get her within sight of a revolution she'd be behind, and Robespierre and Lenin would quietly stand aside, taking notes, wide-eyed. 

Kasumi in the Dresden Files, but she hasn't gotten much attention.

Arguably Melissandre from A Song of Ice and Fire.

Revan from Knights of the Old Republic. Gaider said he always considered Revan female, I don't care what LucasArts says. More specifically, the interpretation of Revan that Kreia offers.

From what little we saw of her, Calpernia even fits a little. She's even Tevinter. 

But for some reason, most writers have Bryonic hero types as being male. In the giant mess of notes of my story I'm going through, I'm a little befuddled to find a character somewhat similar to Solas in there, with his daughter as the Bryonic Hero/? that takes it much farther than he ever did.  Caddius of three years ago must have had visions of Inquisition or something.

From movies/books/gaming/related arts. That you respect your fiance I take as granted!

Thank you for coming up with some.

Though Revan does feel strange to me, considering it could be a guy, too. (I only play female but I am still aware that does not make it true for everybody.) If the writer considered Revan to be female, good, but it may not be considered canon though.

Calpernia gives up too quickly for my taste. "Hey, your boss tricked you. Take this formula as evidence!" - "Ah, really? Thanks for telling me. In that case... have a nice day, see you around." It felt weird.

Maybe you should post your stories here, especially if they turn out to be omens of what was to come.

[Caddius]

 

 

 

Ok trying to respond before I need to head off! 

Spoiler

1> I am in the camp of believing that dragons are just dragons, high dragons particularly intelligent dragons. I think maybe an Archdemon is an OGS stuck in a dragon body corrupted by the blight. Blood magic is the only way the Wardens know of to imprison Corypheus safely. We know of the power of dragon blood when used in blood magic spells, which is the reasoning behind why continuous flow of enchanted dragon-blood may be the only substance capable of holding an OGS imprisoned in a body... and the Blight keeps it significantly maddened (as it does for anyone infected) and surrounded by darkspawn so as to not be able to comprehensibly call for help.  

  But, this is all an opinion so others may think of the Archdemon as a whole entity in itself. 

 

2> Where is it specifically said that nightmare was responsible for the Calling? Genuine question, I do not recall that! I remember being told how frightened the Wardens were due to hearing the Calling, and turning to the evil mage guy out of fear. And then we, in desperation when falling, open a rift and fall into the Fade where we meet Nightmare. Though Nightmare taunts us with Corypheus' voice, and there is a giant evil thing waiting for us at the end, I didn't think there was anything to evidence that Nightmare was anything more than a powerful spirit? Especially since Cole is convinced he could so easily become Nightmare. A spirit in the Fade, in theory, could choose to be perceived as the landscape around you; and the boss at the end is apparently just an "aspect of the nightmare". 

 The wiki does say however, "some corrupted entities [like Corpheus] can imitate the call of an Old God similar to what the Grey Wardens hear... this can even allow Wardens to be controlled against their will". 

 So I guess that answers what happened in DAI.... although I like my version better ;-; 

 

3> I agree with the possibility of the OGSouls being trapped intentionally - by Fen'Harel? Or expelled along with the magisters from the Fade when breaching the Golden City? Multiple possibilities. 

 

4> I have to disagree with "hybridised darkspawn" idea, however. From World of Thedas: 

Anatomy of the Blight

 The Wardens teach that the catalyst of the Blight is the awakening of an Old God lurking somewhere down below. When the darkspawn find and wake one, the Old God is corrupted, creating an Archdemon. 

  As the darkspawn advance to the surface, the land around them is sucked of moisture, bringing a wasting force that blackens the earth and withers plants to dust. The sky fills with rolling black clouds that block the sun. Where the darkspawn go, disease and rot follow. The degenerative diseases born of the taint persist and spread long after the Blight is over. 

  With the exception of the Fifth Blight, which started and stopped in Ferelden, Blights have historically brought all civilised races to the edge of destruction before the Wardens managed to destroy the Archdemon. 

 

  I find "degenerative diseases born of the taint" interesting. Diseases and decay are symptoms of the taint, but taint is not a disease itself. The taint is what we refer to when we mean that someone or something has been infected with the symptoms. 

  This makes me think of the entire Blight as more a collection of dark powers/abilities working in tandem... referring back to the analogy of "Pestilence" of the Four Horseman. 

 

  My theorising on the Song would be getting back into Tin-Foil Hat territory I am afraid 

 

Ok I have to get to class, see you guys later!

 

The hybridized darkspawn bit is seen in The Calling. When the Architect offers to accelerate the Calling in them, and some accept, well. The two humans resemble hurlocks, but with red eyes. And the dwarf looks like a tiny, badass genlock monk. (Gods I love Utha.  )

For some reason they didn't properly convey Utha's appearance in Awakening.

And Nightmare being behind the False Calling is stated in Here Lies the Abyss, I believe. By the Spirit Divine if you chat her up, and by Nightmare himself. He's Corypheus's biggest bruiser. While Cole could hypothetically become as powerful as Nightmare, he'd need a thousand years of soaking up Blight-fear-juice to get to that level.

Excellent points on all the diseases brought with the Blight. Just another way of screwing people over. Maybe the darkspawn are just that unhygienic?

BRING ON THE SONG THEORIES! 

 

I really hope that in future games, when we encounter darkspawn as a major antagonist, that they're treated more like they are in the book. Constant whispers as they communicate with each other, ambushes, coming at you from the walls and ceiling and floor, crawling. A much more slithering kind of evil than the clanking ghouls we see in Inquisition. (Though they are so, so much better than the ones in DA2*. One of the few times I've ever felt completely disappointed in an aspect of a Bioware game.)

*Except for Legacy. Legacy made them cool again.

EDIT: I'll share any fanfiction for Dragon Age and the like. Ideally, I'd be publishing this mess's...hm, offspring isn't the right word. It's like the xenomorph that's bursting out of John Hurt's chest, and I'm studying the remains to figure out where the baby Xenomorph went so I can team up with it to intimidate a publisher.

...I should probably head to bed. 

[flabbadence]

Another thought: Are archdemons already dragons when darkspawn encounter them? Or is it the OGS entering a body that transforms it into an archdemon, as we see when a non-warden kills one?

 

I'm just asking because I'm finding the image of high dragons slumbering underground strange. There's not much room for flight underground after all, and based on DA:I, their nesting grounds are found on the surface. High dragons underground just strike me as unnatural. Were they placed there? By who? Or are the archdemons not in fact dragons at all, and only become so when the OGS enters their bodies, assuming they're separate, or when the Blight touches them, assuming they're untainted before that?

 

Does the Architect relay any physical descriptions of the archdemon he found?

[Caddius]

Another thought: Are archdemons already dragons when darkspawn encounter them? Or is it the OGS entering a body that transforms it into an archdemon, as we see when a non-warden kills one?

 

I'm just asking because I'm finding the image of high dragons slumbering underground strange. There's not much room for flight underground after all, and based on DA:I, their nesting grounds are found on the surface. High dragons underground just strike me as unnatural. Were they placed there? By who? Or are the archdemons not in fact dragons at all, and only become so when the OGS enters their bodies, assuming they're separate?

 

Does the Architect relay any physical descriptions of the archdemon he found?

Dragons are found underground curiously often.

There's one in the Calling. One in the Deep Roads expedition in 2.

My guess is that when we see Corypheus body-surf into a Warden at the Temple of Mythal and it starts writhing and transforming, we're witnessing the echo of the Archdemon's power to twist any darkspawn form into a dragon's shape again. Which is very strange.

The Architect doesn't seem to give any physical description of the Archdemon.

[dragondreamer]

Here's another idea. We're told that it was the magisters who tainted and made darkspawn, but the blight started underground after they located dumat....

 

So, the only sources of the taint originally that we have are the black city, the magisters that came from the black city... and possibly Dumat, who is who the lore actually credits for multiplying and making Darkspawn when he attacked the undergroung thaigs of the dwarves.

 

That leaves the possibility of the darkspawn taint already being in dumat, and the magisters, after being tainted, only were able to locate and wake them up.

 

I think it was the magisters that made the first darkspawn.  Not the Blight, but the darkspawn themselves.  I recall codexes, that explain it beginning as just some odd disappearances in the deep roads, then it gradually escalated.  The dwarves didn't recognize how serious it was until it was too late.  When the darkspawn infestation grew out of control, they probably eventually found Dumat if they hadn't already.  Old Gods wake up when they're tainted, so I don't think they start out that way.  The corruption is what turns them into an Archdemon.

 

DA:I has a codex that appears to be a sighting of the magisters in the deep roads, so they were down there.  It's interesting that after they were dumped out of the Black City and into the physical world again, the real world equivalent location was apparently deep underground.  Which is why I think the Black City is at the center of the planet.  Can be seen from everywhere in the Fade, "in the sky", with all the floating rocks, which shouldn't be floating...

[flabbadence]

Dragons are found underground curiously often.

There's one in the Calling. One in the Deep Roads expedition in 2.

My guess is that when we see Corypheus body-surf into a Warden at the Temple of Mythal and it starts writhing and transforming, we're witnessing the echo of the Archdemon's power to twist any darkspawn form into a dragon's shape again. Which is very strange.

The Architect doesn't seem to give any physical description of the Archdemon.

 

I haven't read the Calling, but the one we find in DA2 makes the dragons underground thing even more curious. We find her just before the primeval thaig right? And yet dragons are supposed to avoid red lyrium.

 

The OGS's innate form being a dragon... bodysurfing... shapeshifting... the taint... underground...the song...

ksdfj;salfjlskjfs

[dragondreamer]

Another thought: Are archdemons already dragons when darkspawn encounter them? Or is it the OGS entering a body that transforms it into an archdemon, as we see when a non-warden kills one?

 

I'm just asking because I'm finding the image of high dragons slumbering underground strange. There's not much room for flight underground after all, and based on DA:I, their nesting grounds are found on the surface. High dragons underground just strike me as unnatural. Were they placed there? By who? Or are the archdemons not in fact dragons at all, and only become so when the OGS enters their bodies, assuming they're separate, or when the Blight touches them, assuming they're untainted before that?

 

Does the Architect relay any physical descriptions of the archdemon he found?

 

Regular dragons like to live in caves (at least in the lore and there's some evidence in DA:O and DA2 as well as the comics), so it might not be that unusual.  High Dragons are supposed to only come out of their cave den to prepare for laying eggs (which is probably why the dragons we encounter usually have a ton of babies...).  A shapeshifting god would probably have even less trouble getting into strange places.  There's one scene in DA:O of the Archdemon flying deep underground.  Caves can get pretty big.

[Caddius]

I think it was the magisters that made the first darkspawn.  Not the Blight, but the darkspawn themselves.  I recall codexes, that explain it beginning as just some odd disappearances in the deep roads, then it gradually escalated.  The dwarves didn't recognize how serious it was until it was too late.  When the darkspawn infestation grew out of control, they probably eventually found Dumat if they hadn't already.  Old Gods wake up when they're tainted, so I don't think they start out that way.  The corruption is what turns them into an Archdemon.

 

DA:I has a codex that appears to be a sighting of the magisters in the deep roads, so they were down there.  It's interesting that after they were dumped out of the Black City and into the physical world again, the real world equivalent location was apparently deep underground.  Which is why I think the Black City is at the center of the planet.  Can be seen from everywhere in the Fade, "in the sky", with all the floating rocks, which shouldn't be floating...

What's interesting to me is that the darkspawn started popping up all over the empire on the fringes, apparently. And that they spotted Dumat years into the conflict, only when they were about to head to the surface.

Most infuriatingly, they don't give us a date when the darkspawn first appear to the dwarves. We know that the dwarf kingdoms began to collapse fifteen years after it's said that the Magisters entered the Black City. That's likely when Dumat leads them to the surface.

I imagine the Magisters needed manual labor to uncover Dumat.

And there were at least two female Magisters among the Seven...

Oh, God.

Oh, God no.     

[flabbadence]

Regular dragons like to live in caves (at least in the lore and there's some evidence in DA:O and DA2 as well as the comics), so it might not be that unusual.  High Dragons are supposed to only come out of their cave den to prepare for laying eggs (which is probably why the dragons we encounter usually have a ton of babies...).  A shapeshifting god would probably have even less trouble getting into strange places.  There's one scene in DA:O of the Archdemon flying deep underground.  Caves can get pretty big.

 

Caves I understand. The fake Andraste taking hold of a whole mountain I understand. But burrowing so far underground even darkspawn have to dig to get to you? And they only have space now because darkspawn now have control over the Deep Roads. When it was still full of dwarves, and when the magisters touched the Black City that was the case, there wouldn't have been room for dragons to move underground. And yet Dumat's already undergound by the time the Blights start.

[Colonelkillabee]

I think it was the magisters that made the first darkspawn.  Not the Blight, but the darkspawn themselves.  I recall codexes, that explain it beginning as just some odd disappearances in the deep roads, then it gradually escalated.  The dwarves didn't recognize how serious it was until it was too late.  When the darkspawn infestation grew out of control, they probably eventually found Dumat if they hadn't already.  Old Gods wake up when they're tainted, so I don't think they start out that way.  The corruption is what turns them into an Archdemon.

 

DA:I has a codex that appears to be a sighting of the magisters in the deep roads, so they were down there.  It's interesting that after they were dumped out of the Black City and into the physical world again, the real world equivalent location was apparently deep underground.  Which is why I think the Black City is at the center of the planet.  Can be seen from everywhere in the Fade, "in the sky", with all the floating rocks, which shouldn't be floating...

This matches well with what we learned in the last flight. Being tainted and experimenting with bloodmagic is my guess on how the blight really kicked off. I also doubt they did this on their own accord (Dumat).

[flabbadence]

What's interesting to me is that the darkspawn started popping up all over the empire on the fringes, apparently. And that they spotted Dumat years into the conflict, only when they were about to head to the surface.

Most infuriatingly, they don't give us a date when the darkspawn first appear to the dwarves. We know that the dwarf kingdoms began to collapse fifteen years after it's said that the Magisters entered the Black City. That's likely when Dumat leads them to the surface.

I imagine the Magisters needed manual labor to uncover Dumat.

And there were at least two female Magisters among the Seven...

Oh, God.

Oh, God no.     

 

Are you... suggesting magister broodmothers?

[Caddius]

Caves I understand. The fake Andraste taking hold of a whole mountain I understand. But burrowing so far underground even darkspawn have to dig to get to you? And they only have space now because darkspawn now have control over the Deep Roads. When it was still full of dwarves, and when the magisters touched the Black City that was the case, there wouldn't have been room for dragons to move underground. And yet Dumat's already undergound by the time the Blights start.

This lends credence to the talk of them being 'imprisoned' by an outside force. Shove them down far, in a place that's really uncomfortable for dragons.

How do they survive without food? Are they kept in stasis, in uthenera, or are they already Tainted?

It's all so strange.