153429 réponses à ce sujet

[LliiraAnna]

Yeah, I just..  I need to cook this some more.

So, if elves started to lose their immortality way before Arlathan fell... what if they used to be more, I dunno, spirit-like once? Maybe the world itself used to be more like the Fade before the Veil, shaped at least partly by feelings/intentions. It's possible they didn't even posess a "permanent" body, simply manifesting themselves as they wanted (remember that "Why do your people choose to look like that?" line from Kieran?). 

 

If without their gods elves would have been mortal, it is possible that the gods simply "bound" their spirits instead of letting them into the afterlife/cycle of reincarnation/whatever. Since they didn't need bodies, old age wasn't a problem. Then the Veil came, and elves lost their ability to manifest like spirits do. So they were forced to go into Uthenera to keep their bodies from falling apart (?) - it probably didn't produce the same effect, so it's posible that that's where they started to "lose immortality" in that that their bodies would still "die" (just very slow), but their spirits would still be bound to a god (creepy). Then the gods are locked away, all connections sewered, Arlathan destroyed, doom and gloom.

 

Those spirits bound to locked away gods were probably "freed" into the afterlife (or whatever). Or, if we're feeling sadistic, locked away with the gods. Or even destroyed.

 

And those who were bound to a not locked away god - like Mythal - were left behind as spirits/ghosts/whatever, since they couldn't keep their bodies.

 

I admit I didn't really think this through, I just had that sudden rush of thoughts 

[flabbadence]

They like music? Or maybe it's not really music, that's just how it sounds to the people that hear it. I interpret it as a rythmic whisper or a urge. Like a buzzing in your ear or a feeling you can't shake off.

Those crazy plants in Skyrim sang...omg those things drove me nuts.  That's what I picture the "song" to be like though.   

 

From what we we know it's not like a chorus. It's just..."singing".  

 

I'm going with it being a magic of sorts, based on Tolkien and Andraste's song. Though to what end, still no idea.

[nikki-tikki]

I like the idea of the blight as a force of nature, possibly held back by Arlathan.

 

But I don't know... If it's just a force of nature, then why the Singing? A Song implies a Singer, and I have a feeling archdemons aren't it

 

Could be something similar to a Siren's singing, luring in unwary individuals. 

[BoscoBread]

They like music? Or maybe it's not really music, that's just how it sounds to the people that hear it. I interpret it as a rythmic whisper or a urge. Like a buzzing in your ear or a feeling you can't shake off.

And I don't think it's just "music". It's likely a physical pull that goes with it.  Like you feel part of something bigger and the song is just part of it, but it's what you associate with that pull. It's the easiest way to convey that "wholeness". So when the Architect cut off the The Mother from the "Beautiful song" she was severed from the rest of the group. She gained her sentience but at the loss of being part of the horde.  Now I feel bad for her. 

[Elven_Glory]

I have a powerful need to write fluffy Solavellan fanfic today...

But I have to take care of actual responsible people stuff first... Like folding laundry and mowing the lawn.

*cries* but I have so many ideas!!!

[flabbadence]

They like music? Or maybe it's not really music, that's just how it sounds to the people that hear it. I interpret it as a rythmic whisper or a urge. Like a buzzing in your ear or a feeling you can't shake off.

 

A compulsion then? Almost like a... geas?

[laurelinvanyar]

I like the idea of the Blight being a force of nature, or even a primordial god with a sort of primitive cunning to continue its existence and spread. (So, a force of nature. )

I'm definitely thinking that it being in the Black City was an attempt at containment by Arlathan. One that failed.

I have an even zanier theory I've been tossing around the gchat. 

 

Tamlen saw a city underground when he looked into the blighted eluvian. I think Arlathan was blighted and Solas locked it away to keep the corruption from spreading. The Black City is the reflection of Arlathan in the Fade, made blighted because of all the dreamers shaping the fade around them to better reflect reality. 

 

*becomes mummy wrapped head to toe in tinfoil*

[MaidenM]

Ok if the sole purpose of drawing them there is to spread the blight... who gains from a blighted world?

 

Falon'din?

 

I currently headcannon that Falon'din removed the elves immortality because "WORSHIP MEEEEEE, PITIFUL MORTALS!!" until we get more information. Then he blamed it on human-cooties.

 

EDIT: Woo! Top of Page Solas

He sees what you did there.

[dragondreamer]

It couldn't have been a normal pathogen. There's no indication it infected anyone but the griffons. It's like they, too, had a hive mind, and when the hive mind was infected, the "rage plague" spread to all of them even when they had no contact with other infected griffons.

So maybe the elves loss of immortality worked like that? An infection spread through their Fade connections?

What also intrigues me about the griffons is their fierce, almost uncontrollable hatred of the Blight. Instinct or something more? A past memory? What if the griffons were magically created beasts (sort of like the Qunari were bred of kossith and dragons, these were bred from halla and wyverns or something?) and there was a binding spell on them which caused them to self destruct when a counter spell was introduced?

 

I've considered that the griffons may have had a hive mind to begin with, but I wasn't sure if there was enough evidence to point at that.  But yeah, the idea is still roughly the same, however the link exists.  That strange innate hatred of the Blight they had *is* really interesting, isn't it?  If griffons had an elven origin, maybe the Creators faction could have bred them to reject any tampering from the Forgotten Ones' Blight magic, as well as made them naturally aggressive towards anything tainted enough to be considered from the Forgotten Ones' camp.  (Doesn't Solas say something about griffons?  I don't remember exactly...)

 

I like the idea of the blight as a force of nature, possibly held back by Arlathan.

 

But I don't know... If it's just a force of nature, then why the Singing? A Song implies a Singer, and I have a feeling archdemons aren't it

 

The Old Gods sing the song, and it carries through the Blight connection.  But the Blight isn't the song.  Even awakened darkspawn will still have the Blight and transmit it.  (Poor messenger darkspawn guy.) 

[Maria13]

Ah, slightly off-topic is best *g*

 

This is very true. People like to believe that Hitler was an isolated case of great evil, a person of exceptional manipulation skills who turned a helpless nation into murderous monsters. The Pied Piper from hell innocent people followed in a trance, not knowing where they were being led. (Like the archdemon and the darkspawn if you will...)

In reality, Hitler simply exploited the xenophobic mood at the time, fostered it and gave people a scapegoat. One they accepted eagerly.  This strategy is a very common one that's been used countless times in history, not unique to Hitler at all.

My grandparents thought Hitler was a great man before the war. Somebody capable of bringing order and new prosperity to Germany. My grandfather couldn't wait to turn 18 and go to war for his country. Then he ended up a prisoner of war in Russia... despite that trauma, my grandfather remained a quiet racist all his life.

 

People like to believe we are all smarter today, less easily influenced. But history does always repeat itself because we refuse to acknowledge that dictators do not rise in a vacuum. I look at what's currently happening in Europe again with Muslims and I see the same potential for great evil. The media is ramping up fear and prejudice, and it's working like a charm once again. It's disgusting and scary how easily manipulated people are. It's always the same story... we never learn.

 

The Blight is symbolic for this cycle of collective madness that seems inevitable. And just as dictatorships sweep across nations like natural disasters, some will stand up against them and rebel. But neither history's villains nor the heroes who stop them are necessarily unique, they do not have superpowers. They merely happen to be there at the right moment in time. If they had not been there, somebody else would have been.

 

In Dragon Age you play one such hero who just happens to rise to the task, often rather by accident. History writes heroes, turns them into legends, while others who helped them are forgotten. Neither the good guys nor the bad guys work alone.

 

Now Solas, he is kind of the hero and the villain in one person to me. He represents both possibilities in each of us. Others have pointed out similarities to Corypheus. The lines get blurred uncomfortably easily. Change can be good or bad. Usually it's neither, it's just different afterwards. How much should we be willing to sacrifice for the greater good? When does change turn into yet another dictatorship?

 

Solas also symbolizes this fallacy that great change can only be achieved by one extraordinary person, himself in this case. It's a dangerous thought. Will Thedas never get better without his help? His reasoning rejects the courage of others to bring change, even though he is looking change right in the face: the inquisition! So there ARE social forces at work at all times just like in reality. They shape the world for better or worse. We can never predict the outcome. That's a bitter lesson Solas has learned.

 

Of course, in Dragon Age we do have immortal gods with superpowers. And it seems that Mythal and Fen'Harel have nudged history along for a long time. Whether or not their interference is necessary is a different matter...

 

I agree. I live in the UK but my father was Spanish, which probably makes me a bit more sensitive to these things (and, yeah, the Spanish can be racist too), people say "we don't hate immigrants... Is just that there are too many..." when this is plainly untrue. Likewise, "we've got nothing against Europeans, but the EU is just too bureaucratic," when most saying this know virtually nothing about the EU and our own government is almost equally bureaucratic.

 

And there are always would-be politicians all too ready to cash in on such prejudice and ignorance.

 

I'm not sure that Solas fails to recognise the power of the inquisition to bring change... It is my headcanon that when he offered them Skyhold he was doing so to give them a chance to do precisely that. It's just it's not the kind of change he wants, or it's not going to happen fast enough... And he is a god so therefore he may have an awareness and power that escapes mere mortals, but, then again, even gods can be wrong...

 

Oh boy, can they be wrong...

[flabbadence]

I have an even zanier theory I've been tossing around the gchat. 

 

Tamlen saw a city underground when he looked into the blighted eluvian. I think Arlathan was blighted and Solas locked it away to keep the corruption from spreading. The Black City is the reflection of Arlathan in the Fade, made blighted because of all the dreamers shaping the fade around them to better reflect reality. 

 

*becomes mummy wrapped head to toe in tinfoil*

 

Can you elaborate on the bolded part?

[Ajna]

Could be something similar to a Siren's singing, luring in unwary individuals. 

 

Now you've said that I'll be hearing the Siren's Song from The Secret World all over Thedas...

 

So this is now what the song is to me..*sigh*

 

[flabbadence]

Could be something similar to a Siren's singing, luring in unwary individuals. 

 

But what for?

 

And I don't think it's just "music". It's likely a physical pull that goes with it.  Like you feel part of something bigger and the song is just part of it, but it's what you associate with that pull. It's the easiest way to convey that "wholeness". So when the Architect cut off the The Mother from the "Beautiful song" she was severed from the rest of the group. She gained her sentience but at the loss of being part of the horde.  Now I feel bad for her. 

 

Wholeness... And Cole says templar abilities work because they aren't whole, but they're singing the old songs...

 

And I've always felt bad for the broodmother  . The awakening was probably like having an anesthesia removed for her

[Elven_Glory]

I have an even zanier theory I've been tossing around the gchat.

Tamlen saw a city underground when he looked into the blighted eluvian. I think Arlathan was blighted and Solas locked it away to keep the corruption from spreading. The Black City is the reflection of Arlathan in the Fade, made blighted because of all the dreamers shaping the fade around them to better reflect reality.

*becomes mummy wrapped head to toe in tinfoil*

The more we discuss this, the more I shift toward the idea that Arlethan was already corrupted by the blight and thus sealed away. But then that makes me even more curious as to what Solas's plans are. The people, they need him. But for what purpose? And why is he shouldering all the blame? Did he start the blight and then was like "oh ****, I have to seal this away to protect others" or did he just have great foresight?

Come on, people! I need to know!

[flabbadence]

Falon'din?

 

I currently headcannon that Falon'din removed the elves immortality because "WORSHIP MEEEEEE, PITIFUL MORTALS!!" until we get more information. Then he blamed it on human-cooties.

 

As powerhungry as Falon'din is, I don't think we've seen any basis for that

 

 

The Old Gods sing the song, and it carries through the Blight connection.  But the Blight isn't the song.  Even awakened darkspawn will still have the Blight and transmit it.  (Poor messenger darkspawn guy.) 

 

Which makes the Blight a tool, not a force of nature

[laurelinvanyar]

Can you elaborate on the bolded part?

We don't really know the extent of what a Dreamer can do. What we DO know is that they can more easily shape the fade around them with their will, the same way a normal mage distorts reality using bits of fade in the waking world. Look at what Solas can do in the fade! He conjures Haven so seamlessly, the inquisitor believes that the fade-Haven is real for a time.

 

We know the elven gods and nobles were all likely Dreamers. If they are all blighted and clustered together in Arlathan, then are they capable of blighting Arlathan's reflection in the fade due to their strength of will? It would give us a culprit for "the big bad" that lured the magisters there to intentionally spread the blight. 

[BoscoBread]

The Old Gods sing the song, and it carries through the Blight connection.  But the Blight isn't the song.  Even awakened darkspawn will still have the Blight and transmit it.  (Poor messenger darkspawn guy.) 

 Favorite minor character. I hope that guy is doing ok.  I let him live.  I liked the epilogue said he was helping travelers.  i'm sure he was entertaingly wacky about it. DLC WITH THAT GUY!

 

My issue with "the song" is that so many things are described as having a song.  The Fade sings, uncorrupted Lyrium sings, corrupted Lyrium sings, blighted creatures hear a song even without an Archdemon raging(The Calling).  I feel like something is just calling to people/things that are tuned either naturally/unnaturally to some sort of frequency.  I don't think it's an Old God...if it's something, it's something much older.  Something that exists in reality and out of it, because Justice talks about hearing it in The Fade.

[Addai]

I've considered that the griffons may have had a hive mind to begin with, but I wasn't sure if there was enough evidence to point at that.  But yeah, the idea is still roughly the same, however the link exists.  That strange innate hatred of the Blight they had *is* really interesting, isn't it?  If griffons had an elven origin, maybe the Creators faction could have bred them to reject any tampering from the Forgotten Ones' Blight magic, as well as made them naturally aggressive towards anything tainted enough to be considered from the Forgotten Ones' camp.  (Doesn't Solas say something about griffons?  I don't remember exactly...)

He does mention them, when you say "should I ride in on a white steed?" There's also an astrarium that links the halla and griffons, even though Colonel hates to be reminded of it. 

[Avejajed]

A compulsion then? Almost like a... geas?

 

Like what the well of sorrows does?

[laurelinvanyar]

The more we discuss this, the more I shift toward the idea that Arlethan was already corrupted by the blight and thus sealed away. But then that makes me even more curious as to what Solas's plans are. The people, they need him. But for what purpose? And why is he shouldering all the blame? Did he start the blight and then was like "oh ****, I have to seal this away to protect others" or did he just have great foresight?

Come on, people! I need to know!

We have the story of Andruil going to the void and coming back corrupted. We also have stories of the gods being crazy violent (though I'm willing to put that down to megalomania). I don't think Solas started the blight, but he could have sealed them away to prevent it from spreading. After all, according to Cole he "...did it to save them"

[Kappa Neko]

I agree. I live in the UK but my father was Spanish, which probably makes me a bit more sensitive to these things (and, yeah, the Spanish can be racist too), people say "we don't hate immigrants... Is just that there are too many..." when this is plainly untrue. Likewise, "we've got nothing against Europeans, but the EU is just too bureaucratic," when most saying this know virtually nothing about the EU and our own government is almost equally bureaucratic.

 

And there are always would-be politicians all too ready to cash in on such prejudice and ignorance.

 

I'm not sure that Solas fails to recognise the power of the inquisition to bring change... It is my headcanon that when he offered them Skyhold he was doing so to give them a chance to do precisely that. It's just it's not the kind of change he wants, or it's not going to happen fast enough... And he is a god so therefore he may have an awareness and power that escapes mere mortals, but, then again, even gods can be wrong...

 

Oh boy, can they be wrong...

Yes, he does think the inquisition is great and doing the right thing. Clearly he admires the inquisitor. But apparently it's not enough. Not the kind of change he deems necessary. Of course, we do not know yet what his plan is exactly. Maybe he knows something very grave will happen if he does not intervene. Like, what happens when all the archdemons are slain? Maybe the darkspawn will get out of control. There could be many reasons why Solas is out of time and rushed things with Corypheus.

If he "simply" wishes to restore the world to what it was, or was supposed to be, then he denies the people of current Thedas the freedom to choose their own fate, which ironically would go against his goal to free people from slavery/oppression.

We'll find out which it is eventually.

[jellobell]

Most of my happy musics are Gregorian chants, in either Medieval Latin or Greek...

 

 

anybody wants to share their Solavellan playlists?
I'm drawing but I need some music that goes well with it and I'm tired of listening to the DAI OST for the millionth time xD

Hmmm, it'd take to long for me to put my whole one on 8tracks, but here's three very different songs from it (there's so many show tunes on this thing  ).

 

 

Spoiler

Drifting in and out

You see the road you're on
It came rolling down your cheek
You say just what you mean
And in between it's never as it seems

Help me to name it
Help me to name it

If you built yourself a myth
You'd know just what to give
What comes after this
Momentary bliss
The consequence of what you do to me

Help me to name it
Help me to name it

Found yourself in a new direction
Arrows falling from the sun
Canyon calling would they come to greet you
Let you know you're not the only one

Can't keep hanging on
To what is dead and gone
If you built yourself a myth
You'd know just what to give
Materialize
Or let the ashes fly

Help me to name it

Help me to name it

 

God, I love Beach House. And Myth is so perfect. Just look at these lines:

 

Can't keep hanging on
To what is dead and gone
If you built yourself a myth
You'd know just what to give
Materialize
Or let the ashes fly

 

Here's a more classic tune. Moon River always makes me think of Solas's romance. It's just so wistful, and the lyrics are perfect.

 

 

Oh Dream Maker

You heartbreaker

Wherever you're going

I'm going your way

 

And, finally, a show tune. As Long as You're Mine is a great "during the romance" song.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4tWBetHvsA

[dragondreamer]

 

So, if the elves started to lose their immortality way before Arlathan fell... what if they used to be more, I dunno, spirit-like once? Maybe the world itself used to be more like the Fade before the Veil, shaped at least partly by feelings/intentions. It's possible they didn't even posess a "permanent" body, simply manifesting themselves as they wanted (remember that "Why do your people choose to look like that?" line from Kieran?). 

 

If without the gods the elves would have been mortal, it is possible that the gods simply "bound" their spirits instead of letting them into the afterlife/cycle of reincarnation/whatever. Since they didn't need bodies, old age wasn't a problem. Then the Veil came, and the elves lost their ability to manifest like spirits do. So they were forced to go into Uthenera to keep their bodies from falling apart (?) - it probably didn't produce the same effect, so it's posible that that's where they started to "lose immortality" in that that their bodies would still "die" (just very slow), but their spirits would still be bound to a god (creepy). Then the gods are locked away, all connections sewered, Arlathan destroyed, doom and gloom.

 

Those spirits bound to locked away gods were probably "freed" into the afterlife (or whatever). Or, if we're feeling sadistic, locked away with the gods. Or even destroyed.

 

And those who were bound to a not locked away god - like Mythal - were left behind as spirits/ghosts/whatever, since they couldn't keep their bodies.

 

I admit I didn't really think this through, I just had that sudden rush of thoughts 

 

 

I think the line from Kieran was about the vallaslin (cuz slave markings), but yeah, I think the elves were originally more spirit-y.  Maybe the original elves were manifested spirits like Cole, but in any case, I tend to lean towards the idea that elves naturally have a half physical/half spirit nature, and that's the key behind a lot of the wonkiness going on with them.  There's a codex where Cory apparently tells one of his elven slaves that the ancient elves were tied to the Fade, and that's why the magisters prefer to use elven slaves for blood magic rituals, since they still have a lot of that magic dormant in the blood or something.

 

The idea that they could be bound is creepy (I've wondered about Solas' wolfjaw talisman now and then), but there's evidence of uthenera existing prior to the elven gods being locked away.  That's also more of a "going into the Fade" sort of thing, and their bodies can actually die if they stay there too long.  The elves ended up becoming mortal, so they ended up with more of a human Cole option on a mass scale.

 

 

A compulsion then? Almost like a... geas?

 

Bingo.

[MaidenM]

As powerhungry as Falon'din is, I don't think we've seen any basis for that

 

Nope, we haven't. But we do know he was vain, killed his subjects to be worshiped more and both Solas and Flemeth speaks of betrayal. That's enough for me to make my own stories until Fall of Arlathan DLC comes out.

[flabbadence]

We don't really know the extent of what a Dreamer can do. What we DO know is that they can more easily shape the fade around them with their will, the same way a normal mage distorts reality using bits of fade in the waking world. Look at what Solas can do in the fade! He conjures Haven so seamlessly, the inquisitor believes that the fade-Haven is real for a time.

 

We know the elven gods and nobles were all likely Dreamers. If they are all blighted and clustered together in Arlathan, then are they capable of blighting Arlathan's reflection in the fade due to their strength of will? It would give us a culprit for "the big bad" that lured the magisters there to intentionally spread the blight. 

 

But how would the trapped dreamers benefit from spreading the blight? It's not like darkspawn can go marching into the Fade to set them free, and a blighted Thedas is an apocalyptic Thedas, of no benefit to those dreamers

 

Like what the well of sorrows does?

 

Yes. So say the blight's a twisted version of the well of sorrows. You're bound to whichever being's in charge of the "blight well", which you partake in through the taint, and the singing you hear's something like the whispers the Inquisitor or Morrigan hears