153429 réponses à ce sujet

[flabbadence]

It would not necessarily need to be an archdemon. What I mean is: is the person at the end of the chain the creator and controller of the blight, or is the person at the end of the chain simply the strongest infected individual? There definitely seems to be a hierarchy among dark spawn.

 

So, if the elven gods got infected: is the song a side effect of the blight grabbing hold of individuals with such immense power? Or, did the blight grab onto them, making them controllable by another party? 

 

I've been thinking it's whoever created the blight, but the strongest infected individual angle can work too. That's how darkspawn leaders are determined after all: have them kill each other and whoever wins gets to be the leader. That opens up the possibility of blight control being able to transfer from one creature to another.

 

Ohhhh, I'd never considered the calling to be a side effect of power. Almost like radiation attracting darkspawn.

 

But I still think it's the blight that grabs hold of them, if only because of Andruil's codex.

[dragondreamer]

Good point  . Rephrase then: The blight may be a force of nature, but the way it's acting now, it isn't natural. It's being directed.

 

What's this about the elven princess? I'm not sure I've read that before

 

 

Yup, like weaponized Blight.  I think the ancient elves really went all out in messing around with the fabric of reality.  (Then Fen'Harel has had enough, nails the Veil to the ground, locks away the gods, and calls it a day, wake him in a couple thousand years.   )

 

The elven princess is so screwy, but it's another one of those little things that could be insignificant, but when I look at it from the perspective of some of the elven god theories, it's ever so suspicious.  Even moreso in the wake of DA:I, than when I first started looking at it.

 

As he approached his 60th year, rumors swirled that the corruption in Warden-Commander Asturian's blood was beginning to take its toll. According to reports from that time, the commander experienced terrifying waking dreams and heard his name whispered from the dark corners of Soldier's Peak. It is said that Asturian would spend hours locked up alone in the Great Hall of the base, muttering to himself, though no one was ever able to make out what he was saying. Many also believed that Asturian began, in secret, to draw up plans to expand his fortress, adding to it hidden passages and alcoves, all to protect himself from the shadows that pursued him.

No one knows whether Asturian was able to complete his project, for his deterioration had become obvious to anyone who spent any amount of time with him. He was quickly replaced by Warden-Commander Frida Halwic. Asturian was taken to Orzammar, where he submitted to the Calling, the last rite of the Grey Wardens, and went to his death with honor.

--From The History of Grey Wardens in Ferelden, by Brother Genitivi, Chantry scholar.

After Asturian's death, the rumors and theories became increasingly outlandish. One of the more ridiculous rumors told of Asturian's infatuation with an elven princess of lore, whom he was trying to resurrect in a secret ritual chamber through the use of blood magic and the princess's favorite food, raspberry jam.

Warden-Commander Frida Halwic launched a thorough investigation into Asturian's "secret plans" but was unable to uncover any evidence that anything in Soldier's Peak had been changed. Commander Halwic declared that the rumors about Asturian were a slight on his memory and that anyone found repeating them would be harshly punished. The stories were thus silenced.

--From The History of Grey Wardens in Ferelden, by Brother Genitivi, Chantry scholar.

 

http://dragonage.wik...Peak:_Chapter_2

http://dragonage.wik...Peak:_Chapter_3

 

There's a painting of the elven princess and a raspberry jam shrine in Soldier's Peak suggesting there's some truth to the rumors.     Maybe it's nothing to be taken seriously, but one of the more interesting details about Soldier's Peak is the eluvian in there.  It's likely that he was mostly addled by the Blight, but Wardens are supposed to be able to understand it more as the corruption advances.  Maybe he was interpreting an elven god as an elven princess instead.

[Mims]

I am clearly the world's worst Warden.  In my canon playthrough both he and the Architect live.

 

 

Nothing wrong with keeping the Architect around! He's either going to doom all of us, or he'll be that ace card you didn't know you needed. At least he's trying, which is more then can be said for many.

 

 

  Of course, there's that one story about that Warden-Commander who delayed going on his Calling and believed he was communicating with some ancient elven princess...hm.

 

Woah, where does this come from? 

 

/reads!

[Elven_Glory]

At least you can mow your lawn. Mine is covered in like 3 feet of snow right now .

That is one thing I do not miss about when I lived in Germany. I find California's weather much more agreeable.

On a completely unrelated note, I've been playing back some of the romance scenes between Solas and Lavellan and watching his expression as he speaks to her (especially his eyebrows, for reasons I will explain in a moment) and I just have to say... The cinematics are incredible. Analyzing his face when he talks to her... Well, I can tell you honestly, he is so into her, guys...

I was just watching the one where she says he's "being grim and fatalistic with hopes of getting her into bed..." And his response... Okay, so let me tell you why eyebrows are important. First of all, when we are planning on lying to someone, there are a certain number of things that we can and do control to make our lies match our expression. Even our eyes... But eyebrows... No one really thinks about them, and they often move on their own and give subtle hints that give you away. When Solas says "Getting you into bed is an enjoyable side benefit" his eyebrows wiggle up and down a few times... Very subtly... In the manner that suggests he has no control over it. Why that is important-- when someone does the subtle eyebrow wiggle, it means they are attracted to you. Which means what? Solas really wants to bang Lavellan. Like, he's not just saying that. Whoever did his animations was on top of their game. That is a detail many would miss and it would not have surprised me if they had left it out, but no. Particularly in the last few scenes before... That part we don't discuss... Solas is positively oozing love for Lavellan out of every fibre of his being. Down to the last detail. Which is why I want to pick up the banner for team optimism, despite my gut feeling that this cannot go well. You cannot love someone that much and then... Just stay away from them forever. I know... Because I've tried.

So team optimism, here is a song from my Lavellan to yours:

I know it's not over. Baby, I've worked it out for sure...

...it's gonna be better...

[flabbadence]

Hm...then it's not the soul that produces the calling. Something about the dragons themselves?

 

Either the archdemons are already tainted before the darkspawn get to them, or they have no choice but to call out to darkspawn to save them from their prisons. I don't know which option I'm leaning towards right now.

 

I think she may have had concerns. Keiran was born in the 'between' space like the crossroads, and then kept him there until he was presumably old enough to travel around with. Although, Morrigan could simply be a bit of a paranoid parent regardless of whether or not that was one of the things she was concerned about. 

 

It could also be she was making 'certain' Flemeth couldn't find them. 

 

I really think she's just running away from Flemeth, who she does know to be someone of immense power, and who she knows has a great interest in Kieran, since Flemeth was the one who came up with the Dark Ritual in the first place

 

 

I am clearly the world's worst Warden.  In my canon playthrough both he and the Architect live.

 

Regarding the Song - I wonder if the blight, Fade, lyrium are all connected on some sort of very primal level since they all give off some sort of song and a compulsion/pull/feeling that you are part of something larger.   

 

I'm sure they are. Hence the frustration 

[Sable Rhapsody]

I am clearly the world's worst Warden.  In my canon playthrough both he and the Architect live.

 

Yeah, my canon Amell was the worst Warden too.  She was already suffering a bit of disillusionment with the Wardens.  Discovering that darkspawn are not in fact mindless, unthinking monsters was the nail in the coffin.  I headcanon that she only sticks around as Warden-Commander as long as she does because there's literally no one else who could do it.  After the incident when Anders gets possessed and leaves, she's like, "I can't leave this f***ing keep for a week to go with Alistair to Highever without you f***ups wrecking EVERYTHING.  You are all grounded forever."

[Kappa Neko]

I like the blight/taint as something natural in the sense of how evil is part of human nature too. We all hear two songs, a good one and an evil one. The weaker we are (emotionally) the louder the evil song becomes, the easier we are manipulated.

 

A large group of people develops a kind of hive mind. That's why mass hysteria is so dangerous. The individual is submerged in the group, becomes part of one huge body with one collective purpose. You are being pulled along. It's like a spell.

Groups amplify emotions. If the emotion is destructive, the damage can be immense. Groups can have spontaneous chaotic reactions or respond to a leader's calculated stimulation.

 

However, it seems that the taint originated somewhere, it's not part of everyone. It might still symbolize human sin like in the Chantry tale. A divine punishment, an amplified version of human greed and destruction. But perhaps the ones who sinned were the elven gods.

So the gods themselves (whether they really are gods or not doesn't matter) corrupted themselves somehow by their actions. I don't think slavery is their sin. The taint must have a physical origin, not a philosophical. I like the theories about it being some kind of magic the gods played with without understanding it, unleashing the taint by accident. Or more sinister, and my favorite theory, a biological weapon. Abelas said the elves were at war and destroyed themselves. Either this happened after the gods were locked away or it was the reason they were locked away. If the gods were at war, one of them might have tried to use some kind of new magical weapon to gain power over the others. Fen'Harel then locked them away and sent the tainted Arlathan into the fade to contain the corruption. Then the magisters arrived at the black city and brought the taint into the world after all...

I support the idea that the old gods lured the magisters into the black city so they would unleash the taint and create an army of darkspawn to help them free themselves from their prison. I like the theory that the old gods are the elven gods. The astrariums seem to hint at it, but that would mean most of the elven gods are dead now, right? It could explain why Solas is in such a hurry. He doesn't want them all to die. And why Mythal sent Morrigan to do the ritual. To save her fellow god...

If the old gods are the elven gods, it would probably mean that they are corrupted. If not by the taint itself, then at least corrupted in the sense that they are so filled with hatred that they would destroy the world just to have their revenge.

[dragondreamer]

I don't think so. He doesn't get swamped by darkspawn after all. In fact, Morrigan's never concerned about darkspawn going after Kieran. She's only thinking about Flemeth, and even Flemeth doesn't find them until the Well of Sorrows. So I think the OGS was pretty contained

 

Urthemiel might not be completely self-aware at this point, being reborn more or less.  I wonder if Solas has the soul now, or if Flemythal ferreted it away somewhere.

 

I am clearly the world's worst Warden.  In my canon playthrough both he and the Architect live.

 

Regarding the Song - I wonder if the blight, Fade, lyrium are all connected on some sort of very primal level since they all give off some sort of song and a compulsion/pull/feeling that you are part of something larger.   

 

My Surana was all "grrr die darkspawn, dieeee", he's so pleasant sometimes.

 

The singing things being part of the reality fabric, is potentially a thing, I think.  Lyrium...lyrium bugs me a little, but I'm pretty sure it has some origins in the Fade, because it's magic, and magic comes from the Fade.  Waters of the Fade, and all that.  The Blight, appears to be a different, alien song.  Songs of Creation, Songs of Destruction..  And possibly even deeper songs that only someone like Cole could identify.  Solas talks about an endless symphony...

 

Creators vs Forgotten Ones:  We have different tastes in music and so we hate each other forever.

[BoscoBread]

Nothing wrong with keeping the Architect around! He's either going to doom all of us, or he'll be that ace card you didn't know you needed. At least he's trying, which is more then can be said for many.

 

You know me, I will NEVER apologize for my decision keeping The Architect alive. EDIT: I will go down with that ship.

 

@ Dragondreamer and that insane story - There's got to be more there. I don't think it's just a funny story about a crazy commander. That whole place is...off.  There's something special about that location.  Maybe it's similar to Skyhold.

[flabbadence]

Yup, like weaponized Blight.  I think the ancient elves really went all out in messing around with the fabric of reality.  (Then Fen'Harel has had enough, nails the Veil to the ground, locks away the gods, and calls it a day, wake him in a couple thousand years.   )

 

The elven princess is so screwy, but it's another one of those little things that could be insignificant, but when I look at it from the perspective of some of the elven god theories, it's ever so suspicious.  Even moreso in the wake of DA:I, than when I first started looking at it.

 

http://dragonage.wik...Peak:_Chapter_2

http://dragonage.wik...Peak:_Chapter_3

 

There's a painting of the elven princess and a raspberry jam shrine in Soldier's Peak suggesting there's some truth to the rumors.     Maybe it's nothing to be taken seriously, but one of the more interesting details about Soldier's Peak is the eluvian in there.  It's likely that he was mostly addled by the Blight, but Wardens are supposed to be able to understand it more as the corruption advances.  Maybe he was interpreting an elven god as an elven princess instead.

 

Very interesting. I was too focused on the ghosts and Avernus to notice this, thanks for bringing it up 

[flabbadence]

That is one thing I do not miss about when I lived in Germany. I find California's weather much more agreeable.

On a completely unrelated note, I've been playing back some of the romance scenes between Solas and Lavellan and watching his expression as he speaks to her (especially his eyebrows, for reasons I will explain in a moment) and I just have to say... The cinematics are incredible. Analyzing his face when he talks to her... Well, I can tell you honestly, he is so into her, guys...

I was just watching the one where she says he's "being grim and fatalistic with hopes of getting her into bed..." And his response... Okay, so let me tell you why eyebrows are important. First of all, when we are planning on lying to someone, there are a certain number of things that we can and do control to make our lies match our expression. Even our eyes... But eyebrows... No one really thinks about them, and they often move on their own and give subtle hints that give you away. When Solas says "Getting you into bed is an enjoyable side benefit" his eyebrows wiggle up and down a few times... Very subtly... In the manner that suggests he has no control over it. Why that is important-- when someone does the subtle eyebrow wiggle, it means they are attracted to you. Which means what? Solas really wants to bang Lavellan. Like, he's not just saying that. Whoever did his animations was on top of their game. That is a detail many would miss and it would not have surprised me if they had left it out, but no. Particularly in the last few scenes before... That part we don't discuss... Solas is positively oozing love for Lavellan out of every fibre of his being. Down to the last detail. Which is why I want to pick up the banner for team optimism, despite my gut feeling that this cannot go well. You cannot love someone that much and then... Just stay away from them forever. I know... Because I've tried.

So team optimism, here is a song from my Lavellan to yours:

I know it's not over. Baby, I've worked it out for sure...

...it's gonna be better...

 

[Mims]

 Maybe he was interpreting an elven god as an elven princess instead.

 

Veerryyy curious. I am wondering if this is the case as well. Why would their mind jump to elven princesses, when elves are rarely thought of in positions of power nowadays? 

 

Is he a human or an elf? Asturian seems like it could be an elven name, so perhaps it might be justified after all. [More elves hearing the elven gods in their sleep, like that servant and Mythal?] It would be easy to mistake a goddess for a princess regardless. Considering the questionable state of the elven gods divinity, 'princess' might even be accurate. Andruil and Syalise are technically princesses under Elgar'nan and Mythal. 

 

'She' wanted him to preform a blood ritual. Also sketchy...

 

Just seems like all of this evidence lately does seem to point to the elven gods being infected in some capacity with the blight. 

[flabbadence]

I like the blight/taint as something natural in the sense of how evil is part of human nature too. We all hear two songs, a good one and an evil one. The weaker we are (emotionally) the louder the evil song becomes, the easier we are manipulated.

 

A large group of people develops a kind of hive mind. That's why mass hysteria is so dangerous. The individual is submerged in the group, becomes part of one huge body with one collective purpose. You are being pulled along. It's like a spell.

Groups amplify emotions. If the emotion is destructive, the damage can be immense. Groups can have spontaneous chaotic reactions or respond to a leader's calculated stimulation.

 

However, it seems that the taint originated somewhere, it's not part of everyone. It might still symbolize human sin like in the Chantry tale. A divine punishment, an amplified version of human greed and destruction. But perhaps the ones who sinned were the elven gods.

So the gods themselves (whether they really are gods or not doesn't matter) corrupted themselves somehow by their actions. I don't think slavery is their sin. The taint must have a physical origin, not a philosophical. I like the theories about it being some kind of magic the gods played with without understanding it, unleashing the taint by accident. Or more sinister, and my favorite theory, a biological weapon. Abelas said the elves were at war and destroyed themselves. Either this happened after the gods were locked away or it was the reason they were locked away. If the gods were at war, one of them might have tried to use some kind of new magical weapon to gain power over the others. Fen'Harel then locked them away and sent the tainted Arlathan into the fade to contain the corruption. Then the magisters arrived at the black city and brought the taint into the world after all...

I support the idea that the old gods lured the magisters into the black city so they would unleash the taint and create an army of darkspawn to help them free themselves from their prison. I like the theory that the old gods are the elven gods. The astrariums seem to hint at it, but that would mean most of the elven gods are dead now, right? It could explain why Solas is in such a hurry. He doesn't want them all to die. And why Mythal sent Morrigan to do the ritual. To save her fellow god...

If the old gods are the elven gods, it would probably mean that they are corrupted. If not by the taint itself, then at least corrupted in the sense that they are so filled with hatred that they would destroy the world just to have their revenge.

 

Falon'din is looking more and more sinister

 

And that last bit, "the world was betrayed"

[Illyria]

 

Depression time!

Spoiler

 

http://liberaquantob...-weve-lost-i-am

 

I am the one
Who can recount
What we’ve lost.

I am the one
Who will live on.

 

 

Are you trying to outdo Sable's ability to turn us all to sobbing, heartbroken unicorns?

[flabbadence]

Urthemiel might not be completely self-aware at this point, being reborn more or less.  I wonder if Solas has the soul now, or if Flemythal ferreted it away somewhere.

 

 

My Surana was all "grrr die darkspawn, dieeee", he's so pleasant sometimes.

 

The singing things being part of the reality fabric, is potentially a thing, I think.  Lyrium...lyrium bugs me a little, but I'm pretty sure it has some origins in the Fade, because it's magic, and magic comes from the Fade.  Waters of the Fade, and all that.  The Blight, appears to be a different, alien song.  Songs of Creation, Songs of Destruction..  And possibly even deeper songs that only someone like Cole could identify.  Solas talks about an endless symphony...

 

Creators vs Forgotten Ones:  We have different tastes in music and so we hate each other forever.

 

That we'll have to wait for in the next installment.

 

And oh my god, creators vs. forgotten ones, the teenagers of Thedas

 

 

Veerryyy curious. I am wondering if this is the case as well. Why would their mind jump to elven princesses, when elves are rarely thought of in positions of power nowadays? 

 

Is he a human or an elf? Asturian seems like it could be an elven name, so perhaps it might be justified after all. [More elves hearing the elven gods in their sleep, like that servant and Mythal?] It would be easy to mistake a goddess for a princess regardless. Considering the questionable state of the elven gods divinity, 'princess' might even be accurate. Andruil and Syalise are technically princesses under Elgar'nan and Mythal. 

 

'She' wanted him to preform a blood ritual. Also sketchy...

 

Just seems like all of this evidence lately does seem to point to the elven gods being infected in some capacity with the blight. 

 

Hey! If he's an elf, then maybe that's why the sword still hasn't been found. It's been hidden away using a method similar to what Isseya used to hide her journal in the Last Flight

[dragondreamer]

Veerryyy curious. I am wondering if this is the case as well. Why would their mind jump to elven princesses, when elves are rarely thought of in positions of power nowadays? 

 

Is he a human or an elf? Asturian seems like it could be an elven name, so perhaps it might be justified after all. [More elves hearing the elven gods in their sleep, like that servant and Mythal?] It would be easy to mistake a goddess for a princess regardless. Considering the questionable state of the elven gods divinity, 'princess' might even be accurate. Andruil and Syalise are technically princesses under Elgar'nan and Mythal. 

 

'She' wanted him to preform a blood ritual. Also sketchy...

 

Just seems like all of this evidence lately does seem to point to the elven gods being infected in some capacity with the blight. 

 

I'm not sure, I think I always assumed he was human, but that's a good question.  His full name is Gaspar Asturian, and it isn't common for elves to have last names unless they're Dalish.  Hard to say.  The blood magic sounds suspiciously like the instructions from the Old Gods to the magisters...just without the raspberry jam.

 

On the subject of Mythal popping up in the dreams of elves and even elf-blooded, I wonder if that's Mythal trying to kick start the hive microphone with fuzzy results.

[flabbadence]

Are you trying to outdo Sable's ability to turn us all to sobbing, heartbroken unicorns?

 

I think Avejajed has that particular honor this time

[dragondreamer]

That we'll have to wait for in the next installment.

 

And oh my god, creators vs. forgotten ones, the teenagers of Thedas

 

 

 

Hey! If he's an elf, then maybe that's why the sword still hasn't been found. It's been hidden away using a method similar to what Isseya used to hide her journal in the Last Flight

 

Totally.

 

And HUH...  Actually, we do find the sword, it's hidden behind a painting.  You have to recite the Grey Warden oath at it to get the secret compartment to open.  That does sound like an elfy thing to do, haha.

[flabbadence]

About Mythal popping up in dreams post-game, I've finally found a video of it btw:

 

[flabbadence]

Totally.

 

And HUH...  Actually, we do find the sword, it's hidden behind a painting.  You have to recite the Grey Warden oath at it to get the secret compartment to open.  That does sound like an elfy thing to do, haha.

 

Oh. I have clearly forgotten everything about Soldier's Peak that doesn't involve the Drydens and Avernus 

[Mims]

Maybe it wasn't raspberry jam at all. /shudder

 

The Mythal dream thing is curious too. I really don't know what is going on there. Setting the chess board for some future event, maybe. Or, perhaps it isn't even Mythal? But given the fact that most of the elven gods are held in high regard, I don't see much of a reason why one would impersonate her. 

 

Perhaps she anticipates another elven god becoming free, and trying to win over followers. People who have been seeing Mythal in dreams might be more likely to not believe a 'physical' elven god, when they have an ethereal one telling them something else. 

[flabbadence]

Maybe it wasn't raspberry jam at all. /shudder

 

The Mythal dream thing is curious too. I really don't know what is going on there. Setting the chess board for some future event, maybe. Or, perhaps it isn't even Mythal? But given the fact that most of the elven gods are held in high regard, I don't see much of a reason why one would impersonate her. 

 

Perhaps she anticipates another elven god becoming free, and trying to win over followers. People who have been seeing Mythal in dreams might be more likely to not believe a 'physical' elven god, when they have an ethereal one telling them something else. 

 

And of course the first thing I thought about was period blood 

 

erm. I'm sorry.

 

Anyway, I'm thinking this is just Bioware reassuring us that Mythal isn't gone.

 

Flemeth's visiting Sandal's dream though, much more confusing

[Elven_Glory]

I'm not sure, I think I always assumed he was human, but that's a good question. His full name is Gaspar Asturian, and it isn't common for elves to have last names unless they're Dalish. Hard to say. The blood magic sounds suspiciously like the instructions from the Old Gods to the magisters...just without the raspberry jam.

On the subject of Mythal popping up in the dreams of elves and even elf-blooded, I wonder if that's Mythal trying to kick start the hive microphone with fuzzy results.

Mythal? Or a Solas that appears as Mythal in dreams? I mean Either way, it is worthy of speculation. It only occurs post game, does it not? Or did I miss something?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Falon'din is looking more and more sinister

 

And that last bit, "the world was betrayed"

 

Andruil is also a likely suspect.  She "made weapons of darkness, and plague ate at her lands.  She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn."  Maybe the Blight is something that always existed in the Void, or was inherent to the Void.  Andruil just brought it back, into Thedas.  Maybe it wasn't exactly intentional on Andruil's part, but that was the stone that started the avalanche.

 

Mythal also fought her after she went all nuts and stole her knowledge of how to find the Void.  Maybe her murder came at Andruil's hands for what she'd done.  Point being, Mythal stole the knowledge of how to find the Void.  She didn't erase it.  Presumably that knowledge is still with Mythal, so who has it now?  Whomever drank from the Well?  Solas?  Morrigan?  Ugh, this is why I leave the lore to you guys.  I tie myself in knots with this stuff.

 

(Just to be clear, I'm not trying to bag on Andruil.  I don't think she's inherently worse than any of the other gods, but something about her hunting the Forgotten Ones in the Void is very very ominous to me.)

[Mims]

And of course the first thing I thought about was period blood