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[Mims]

She didn't erase it.  Presumably that knowledge is still with Mythal, so who has it now?  Whomever drank from the Well?  Solas?  Morrigan?  Ugh, this is why I leave the lore to you guys.  I tie myself in knots with this stuff.

 

 

It has been speculated she might have given the information to Dirthamen...who then broke her trust and gave it to Falon'din or another. It would explain why his statue is stabbed in the back in her weird fade dream. 

 

Whatever the case is, I am guessing once the information about the blight/red lyrium came out, even the gods couldn't contain it.

[flabbadence]

Wait, my focus's pretty fuzzy by now. I think it's time I went to bed. Goodnight!

 

Bonus Solas:

 

Spoiler

http://relssah.devia.../Loss-510225137

[BoscoBread]

And of course the first thing I thought about was period blood 

 

erm. I'm sorry.

 

Anyway, I'm thinking this is just Bioware reassuring us that Mythal isn't gone.

 

Flemeth's visiting Sandal's dream though, much more confusing

 Ewww--

 

That's what I thought too.

[dragondreamer]

Mythal? Or a Solas that appears as Mythal in dreams? I mean Either way, it is worthy of speculation. It only occurs post game, does it not? Or did I miss something?

 

That was an interesting mental image.

 

Flemythal: Dread Wolf, what are you doing?

Solas: *quickly pulls off wig, but nothing can hide the armor* Nothing at all.  *kicks over the magical mic*

Flemythal:

 

I'm not sure exactly when you can get the dialogue about Mythal in the dream, I've gotten it post-game, but I've seen people who say they've gotten it earlier.  Sandal also talks about a "scary lady" who watches him at night, who is commonly believed to be Flemeth.

[Sable Rhapsody]

It has been speculated she might have given the information to Dirthamen...who then broke her trust and gave it to Falon'din or another. It would explain why his statue is stabbed in the back in her weird fade dream. 

 

Whatever the case is, I am guessing once the information about the blight/red lyrium came out, even the gods couldn't contain it.

 

Would she still have the information, in that case?  Or would it be gone from her mind too and belong with Dirthamen?  Now I'm picturing a sort of secret Void-y hot potato 

 

The thing that weirds me out about the whole situation is Mythal's murder.  Elvhenan was around for a long-ass time, and if we're to believe Solas, the gods did a lot of feuding amongst themselves.  But no one murdered anyone prior to Mythal, at least as far as we know.  They did lots of horrible, f***ed up stuff, but never went so far as to kill one of their own.

 

What changed?  Why slay the mother goddess of the pantheon?  What would be the motive for doing so?  Or maybe I've been playing too much Sherlock and I'm just looking at this the wrong way 

[Eomie]

:: Places On Tin Foil Hat ::

 

So, recently I had talked about how  Dragon age Mirrors the Norse pantheon a lot. Well what if that Dragon is kind following a idea similar to the mythology of Tolkien (who pulled from norse mythology)?

 

'Eru is transcendent, and completely outside of and beyond the world. He first created a group of angelic beings, called in Elvish the "Ainur]," and these holy spirits were co-actors in the creation of Arda through a holy music and chanting called the "Music of the Ainur."He is known also as the all powerful".'

 

Sounds like the maker and the possible Elven pantheon to me.

 

This explains the Tolkien Mythos pretty well!

[Elven_Glory]

That was an interesting mental image.

Flemythal: Dread Wolf, what are you doing?
Solas: *quickly pulls off wig, but nothing can hide the armor* Nothing at all. *kicks over the magical mic*
Flemythal:

I'm not sure exactly when you can get the dialogue about Mythal in the dream, I've gotten it post-game, but I've seen people who say they've gotten it earlier. Sandal also talks about a "scary lady" who watches him at night, who is commonly believed to be Flemeth.

Lol I was thinking more or less "it's the fade, I can change my appearance because...magic... And also I happen to have Mythal's power right now," but that is definitely a hilarious mental image. I wonder how Coryflora would feel about adding it to the burlesque lineup? LOL
Also a valid point. Mythal did appear to be sending at least a portion of her essence into the Fade, so perhaps it is this that appears in dreams if only in post game, and if not, well, Mythal can do whatever the **** she wants, can't she? Except for give a straight answer, of course.

[Addai]

Isn't there a codex about Sera and raspberry jam? That's probably been discussed over in that thread that claims she's Andruil.

 

I think it's the developers messing with us.

 

edit- late ToP

 

[BoscoBread]

Would she still have the information, in that case?  Or would it be gone from her mind too and belong with Dirthamen?  Now I'm picturing a sort of secret Void-y hot potato 

 

The thing that weirds me out about the whole situation is Mythal's murder.  Elvhenan was around for a long-ass time, and if we're to believe Solas, the gods did a lot of feuding amongst themselves.  But no one murdered anyone prior to Mythal, at least as far as we know.  They did lots of horrible, f***ed up stuff, but never went so far as to kill one of their own.

 

What changed?  Why slay the mother goddess of the pantheon?  What would be the motive for doing so?  Or maybe I've been playing too much Sherlock and I'm just looking at this the wrong way 

No idea, but that's what disturbs me.  When you're in ToM and Solas chides you if you tell him "Maybe they should have killed Falon'Din". And he's like 'one should NOT take the death of a god lightly'.  Even crazed Falon'Din was too important to kill in his mind.  I wonder if Mythal's murder is the Great Betrayal that the Dalish speak of...they just got the details wrong. It wasn't Fen'Harel sealing the gods away. It was the murder.

[Mims]

 

Flemythal: Dread Wolf, what are you doing?

Solas: *quickly pulls off wig, but nothing can hide the armor* Nothing at all.  *kicks over the magical mic*

Flemythal:

 

 

 

"hello elf this is mythal speaking."

[Elven_Glory]

"hello elf this is mythal speaking."

Omg, I'm out of likes, but I burst out laughing to the point where my three year old asked "what's so funny, Mama?" And I couldn't tell him because I couldn't breathe.

[TanisLave]

That was an interesting mental image.

 

Flemythal: Dread Wolf, what are you doing?

Solas: *quickly pulls off wig, but nothing can hide the armor* Nothing at all.  *kicks over the magical mic*

Flemythal:

 

I'm not sure exactly when you can get the dialogue about Mythal in the dream, I've gotten it post-game, but I've seen people who say they've gotten it earlier.  Sandal also talks about a "scary lady" who watches him at night, who is commonly believed to be Flemeth.

 

I got that dialogue right after the Temple of Mythal on my Trev and my recent Playthrough, today actually. 

[Avejajed]

I think Avejajed has that particular honor this time

 

Shhhhh.

[Illyria]

I got that dialogue right after the Temple of Mythal on my Trev and my recent Playthrough, today actually. 

 

I got it before the Temple.

[Avejajed]

 

"hello elf this is mythal speaking."

 

I'll have you know I tried to answer the phone immediately after seeing this. I may be fired. I'll be sleeping on your couch in a few weeks.

[Mims]

 

What changed?  Why slay the mother goddess of the pantheon?  

 

In the 'origin' legend of the elven gods, Mythal is the only one able to calm Elgar'nan's rage. She and Elgar'nan are presumably the most powerful of the gods. Perhaps, if she chose to side against them by resisting corruption, she was too dangerous to keep around. Fen'Harel is likely not the strongest of the gods, but he was still able to seal the elven gods away by surprise. So a single god can do a ton of damage if they are not guarding themselves.

 

Mythal perhaps did not employ subterfuge. Whatever happened, she made it known she would not stand for it. The other gods turned on her. Fen'Harel was able to continue plotting against them unnoticed, because he's always been on the 'fringe' of the group. They might have even thought he was completely on board with the plan of red lyrium crazy time. Or at least, cowed to not be a threat. 

[Avejajed]

Isn't there a codex about Sera and raspberry jam? That's probably been discussed over in that thread that claims she's Andruil.

 

I think it's the developers messing with us.

 

Is this a legit thing? Sera as an even princess hahaha.

 

I think it likely she's descended from one though, that'd be cool.

[dragondreamer]

Would she still have the information, in that case?  Or would it be gone from her mind too and belong with Dirthamen?  Now I'm picturing a sort of secret Void-y hot potato 

 

The thing that weirds me out about the whole situation is Mythal's murder.  Elvhenan was around for a long-ass time, and if we're to believe Solas, the gods did a lot of feuding amongst themselves.  But no one murdered anyone prior to Mythal, at least as far as we know.  They did lots of horrible, f***ed up stuff, but never went so far as to kill one of their own.

 

What changed?  Why slay the mother goddess of the pantheon?  What would be the motive for doing so?  Or maybe I've been playing too much Sherlock and I'm just looking at this the wrong way 

 

The big whodunit that might answer a lot of questions.  Was it the volatile husband?  The power-hungry son?  The really shady son?  The ax-crazy daughter?  The mad-scientist adopted daughter?  Or those two kids no one pays much attention to, even though they've probably done horrible things that are simply unmentionable.  Or maybe those creepy guys no one can remember the names of.  We only know it isn't the wolf guy...or it wasn't, anyway.

[Mims]

I'll have you know I tried to answer the phone immediately after seeing this. I may be fired. I'll be sleeping on your couch in a few weeks.

 

Haha. You are welcome to it! 

[Elven_Glory]

*cries* okay, my heart is starting to demand wolf hunt DLC again because I, in my Psychology-Degree-feel-the-need-to-make-everything-right-for-the-people-I-care-about type way have begun to stress because I can't "fix everything" for Solas right this very second. And my stress typically leads to an anxiety attack. I can already feel my heart pounding. So I'm going to go and actually mow my lawn and maybe come back when I don't feel so dire.

[Illyria]

*wanders into Feedback and Suggestion*

 

...

 

*wanders right back out again*

 

Why do I do that?  And why do people keep posting about how much the hate the game?  I'll stay here in the Solas thread.  At least we all spend our time discussing something we like.

[dragondreamer]

Isn't there a codex about Sera and raspberry jam? That's probably been discussed over in that thread that claims she's Andruil.

 

I think it's the developers messing with us.

 

I remember hearing that now...  Sometimes I really don't know what to think.  Sera is in that weird space where things can be explained away as nothing so easily, but it still nags at me a little.  What I wonder about in a more concrete way, is what was up with those painted boxes in DA:O.  Why was that thing in Irving's office, and why were the Red Jennys so serious about getting it?  Why was Sera playing with it?  I mean, the other thing we find in his office is Flemeth's old grimoire.  Sometimes I think, sure, Red Jenny is just like the Dread Pirate Roberts or something, but the codexes are kinda creepy. I dunno.

 

 

"hello elf this is mythal speaking."

 

Bwahahaha

 

...For all we know, this may have been his job at one point.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I wonder if Mythal's murder is the Great Betrayal that the Dalish speak of...they just got the details wrong. It wasn't Fen'Harel sealing the gods away. It was the murder.

 

You could make a drinking game of everything the Dalish got wrong.  Of course, you'd then just die of alcohol poisoning, especially toward the endgame of DA:I.

 

 

In the 'origin' legend of the elven gods, Mythal is the only one able to calm Elgar'nan's rage. She and Elgar'nan are presumably the most powerful of the gods. Perhaps, if she chose to side against them by resisting corruption, she was too dangerous to keep around. Fen'Harel is likely not the strongest of the gods, but he was still able to seal the elven gods away by surprise. So a single god can do a ton of damage if they are not guarding themselves.

 

Mythal perhaps did not employ subterfuge. Whatever happened, she made it known she would not stand for it. The other gods turned on her. Fen'Harel was able to continue plotting against them unnoticed, because he's always been on the 'fringe' of the group. They might have even thought he was completely on board with the plan of red lyrium crazy time. Or at least, cowed to not be a threat. 

 

Flemeth strikes me as the type to employ subterfuge, but that might be a product of her circumstances rather than Mythal's original personality.  Maybe when the other gods turned on her, they were already corrupted by the Blight.  One by one, after Andruil brought it back from the Void (or whatever happened), they all fell victim to its madness.  Fen'Harel wasn't corrupted because he stood apart from the rest of the pantheon, and so he had nothing to do with Mythal's murder.

 

Here's a bit of poorly-thought-out tin foil theory: maybe the elven gods were hearing the Calling.  A compulsion from the Blight to return to the Void.  But the knowledge of how to find the Void had been taken from Andruil...and was in Mythal's possession, so they killed her trying to reclaim it.  It might even have been a set-up.  The Forgotten Ones live in the Void, according to Andruil's codex entry.  Maybe they're the ones behind it all, and they let Andruil go after them knowing she would bring Blight back to the elven pantheon and hasten its destruction.

[Sister Squish]

Post of thoughtsquirts

Spoiler

The hybridized darkspawn bit is seen in The Calling.   When the Architect offers to accelerate the Calling in them, and some accept, well. The two humans resemble hurlocks, but with red eyes. And the dwarf looks like a tiny, badass genlock monk. (Gods I love Utha.    )

For some reason they didn't properly convey Utha's appearance in Awakening. 

And Nightmare being behind the False Calling is stated in Here Lies the Abyss, I believe. By the Spirit Divine if you chat her up, and by Nightmare himself. He's Corypheus's biggest bruiser. While Cole could hypothetically become as powerful as Nightmare, he'd need a thousand years of soaking up Blight-fear-juice to get to that level.

Excellent points on all the diseases brought with the Blight. Just another way of screwing people over. Maybe the darkspawn are just that unhygienic?

BRING ON THE SONG THEORIES! 

 

I really hope that in future games, when we encounter darkspawn as a major antagonist, that they're treated more like they are in the book. Constant whispers as they communicate with each other, ambushes, coming at you from the walls and ceiling and floor, crawling. A much more slithering kind of evil than the clanking ghouls we see in Inquisition. (Though they are so, so much better than the ones in DA2*. One of the few times I've ever felt completely disappointed in an aspect of a Bioware game.)

*Except for Legacy. Legacy made them cool again.

EDIT: I'll share any fanfiction for Dragon Age and the like.   Ideally, I'd be publishing this mess's...hm, offspring isn't the right word. It's like the xenomorph that's bursting out of John Hurt's chest, and I'm studying the remains to figure out where the baby Xenomorph went so I can team up with it to intimidate a publisher.

...I should probably head to bed.  

 

THIS IS EXACTLY THE FEELING I HAVE, that a future storyline will involve coming to sympathise with a darkspawn, and learning they are not so different after all! 

  I see what you mean. If the song is a kind of life-force, one end of the spectrum could be life as we know it - the other end, darkspawn... what you say about the Architect's tactics seem to be moving along that spectrum. Unless he was just experimenting on Wardens, as special cases? Or did he experiment on normal people too? 

  I have this terrible feeling that darkspawn will have "diverted" fade souls put into them when broodmothers conceive... from what we are told about darkspawn fighting each other almost immediately after being born: "they will try to kill each other, perhaps a natural instinct"... do they retain memories of being something "better" before? DO NOT WANT.

  Ok that is wild speculation! But I cannot decide what I think the taint is D: 

1> I am open to the idea of the collected diseases known as "the taint" having been a biological weapon gone wrong, manufactured by our Ghil.

2> Also open to it being more spiritual in nature, aka "Pestilence", one of the Four Horseman/Forgotten Ones

3> Also to Tevinter magisters being tricked by their gods (if not the Forgotten Ones) into bringing back the taint with them from the Fade

I cannot decide *sobs* ;-; want to know so bad!

 

WoT on Archdemon song: 

  The call of an Archdemon can be heard by darkspawn over great distances. Wardens may hear it too, one clear signal that a Blight is looming. What the call is exactly has proven hard to define. In a Warden's ears, it sounds like strange music, an intoxicating melody that grows louder and more appealing as the corruption advances. Darkspawn are consumed by its draw and can think of nothing else but uncovering its source. 

 

So reasoning: 

1> there is a correlation between an increase of "corruption" and an increase of "Song". 

2> the darkspawn crave finding the "source" of the Song.

3> the darkspawn cease searching after discovering a sleeping Archdemon, presumably having found the "source". 

Conclusion: Archdemons are both the source of the "corruption" [taint] and source of the Song.

 

I should stop putting off reading The Calling, shouldn't I?  I bought it recently, which made my fiancé sulk since he had apparently bought it as a suprise present for Valentines! whoops! 

 

<snip>

And in the last flight

Spoiler

a grey warden started experimenting on griffons with blood magic to make them accept the joining of the grey wardens, and it created a sickness in them and others that spread without ever being in contact with these griffons. It was like the blight corruption.

 

All life is connected, confirmed?

 

I could come up with a theory from cognitive science here but I will refrain from doing so because last time I tried flabbadance totally did not understand what I tried to say. 

So I will only point out that we know nothing of "the song" or even "the taint" or "the blight". Maybe there is one universal song, a sort of wave that touches all things. But some are blocked from noticing it (strong mind and such) while others are vulnerable (tainted creatures). So they all react. If we go a step further and assume that the OG themselves emit the song, we have a sound source and the receivers (those with tainted blood, maybe also other gods etc.) approach it.
Let me compare it to our previous topic of Nazi Germany, maybe. Imagine Hitler had not been a racist himself, so what? All he needed to do is feed into the common racist mood (hive mind) at the time and use it to further his goals. I think the same could be true for the OGS. They might not be tainted themselves, but they emit a song that can influence (or create) the hive mind in order to gather their "army".

I think it is very hard to tell any relations and influences while not knowing what exactly the song or the taint are in the first place.

If they're already tainted, then that's their source of nourishment.

 

If they aren't tainted yet, then it's probably something like uthenera. But then why call out to darkspawn?

 

Wait. What if it's not the archdemon that's calling out to darkspawn, but whatever spell has them imprisoned? To give it an image, you have this archdemon just slumbering away, and then this cage wrapped around it, and it's that cage that's calling out to the darkspawn.

 

Only, that doesn't really work because if it's just the cage, then the song should stop once the archdemon's set free, which it doesn't.

Maybe the blight is itself a...entity or something. It was always there, but maybe it's discovery caused it to start infecting everything? Or maybe the blight -is- the void.

 

Yeeeessss my thoughts incorporate all these. Am currently studying different theories on "consciousness" at the moment so I want to see if I can incorporate them into theories about the song! 

Now sleeeeeep

[jellobell]

Solas's scrunchy angryface is so cute!