153434 réponses à ce sujet

[jellobell]

I still don't get the idea of the Vessel.

So Corypheus is aware of the dangers of the Well, or at least aware that there is danger. He seems to think he'll have control over Callie or Sammie when they drink and he'll use that knowledge to enter the Fade physically, as apparently ancient elves would casually do. But why would he have control over them? Does he have any idea about the geas? Was there something in the Shrine of Dumat I missed? Could he have pulled it off?

I think you find out more about this if you side with the Templars and do Calpernia's mission. He was experimenting on her old master in order to perfect methods of control. Presumably he would've been able to control her if they'd succeeded (and then made her tell him everything she'd found out from the well). Though she seemed to be aware that he was lying to her, so maybe not.

[Elessara]

There is some connection between Flemeth and Corypheus. She says that she knows him well. Hard to say what she means by it- although Mythal has been linked to Dumat so much that there's certainly a lot to speculate. 

 

 

 

I imagine she has beliefs somewhat similar to Solas. She is aware that there is likely something else out there, but does not desire to look too closely or ensnare their freedom to said entity. Not so much atheist, but agnostic. When the going gets tough they look to the people they care about or themselves for comfort. 

 

It may not be that there's a connection between Flemeth and Corypheus but more of a connection with Mythal and the Blight.  Especially if we want to consider that the old elven gods might be corrupted by the Blight themselves.  So when the Inquisitor asks if Flemeth knows what they're up against and Flemeth says, to the effect, "more than you realise" she may be referencing that and not so much Corypheus himself.

[Colonelkillabee]

I don't think any of the elven gods are omnipotent. We can look to Felassan and the unknown entity in Masked Empire as likely proof of this- he has to be informed of Felassan's actions. Hence, why Felassan was able to disobey him. We don't know Felassan was under a geas, but I don't think there's anything that suggests that the geas now allows the controller over the well unlimited access to your thoughts. 

 

By that notion, I think Corypheus knew that there was a geas and knew that if he drank himself whatever entity controlled the well could potentially use it against him. But by having a servant drink, he could milk them for whatever information he could obtain before said god figured it out and intervened. [If they even did.] 

 

Not to mention- if it backfires, he doesn't really lose anything but a powerful servant. 

 

Here's a question, do you think that Flemeth would have been strong enough to bind corypheus to her in the first place if he had to do it himself? Corypheus is almost on par with the gods himself it seems, and who knows what the blight's effect has on his mind already. Maybe a little tug of war with her and whatever's behind the taint. He is pretty much as strong, if not stronger than an archdemon.

[Caddius]

I don't think any of the elven gods are omnipotent. We can look to Felassan and the unknown entity in Masked Empire as likely proof of this- he has to be informed of Felassan's actions. Hence, why Felassan was able to disobey him. We don't know Felassan was under a geas, but I don't think there's anything that suggests that the geas now allows the controller over the well unlimited access to your thoughts. 

 

By that notion, I think Corypheus knew that there was a geas and knew that if he drank himself whatever entity controlled the well could potentially use it against him. But by having a servant drink, he could milk them for whatever information he could obtain before said god figured it out and intervened. [If they even did.] 

 

Not to mention- if it backfires, he doesn't really lose anything but a powerful servant. 

That makes sense. Solas definitely isn't omniscient.

I'm guessing he got the information about the Well and the geas from the Orb, since he explains the Sentinels and the Temple to Samson in the Codex Entry, and mentions that he got the information from the Orb.

[Colonelkillabee]

LOL am I the only one that thinks Solas looks like he's planning on trapping her with some love charm by the fire here?

 

 

Hopefully I did this right. I don't usually post pictures. 
Spoiler tag for space. I'm hoping...
 

Spoiler

 


 
For creepy value:
 

 

 

 

That first Solas pic:

 

Spoiler

 

[Mims]

Here's a question, do you think that Flemeth would have been strong enough to bind corypheus to her in the first place if he had to do it himself? Corypheus is almost on par with the gods himself it seems, and who knows what the blight's effect has on his mind already. Maybe a little tug of war with her and whatever's behind the taint. He is pretty much as strong, if not stronger than an archdemon.

 

A very good question! I'm not sure. When you put it like that, I almost wonder if any blighted creature could be controlled by the well? 

[Vorathrad]

Here's a question, do you think that Flemeth would have been strong enough to bind corypheus to her in the first place if he had to do it himself? Corypheus is almost on par with the gods himself it seems, and who knows what the blight's effect has on his mind already. Maybe a little tug of war with her and whatever's behind the taint. He is pretty much as strong, if not stronger than an archdemon.

 

That would be one hell of a battle to see. Maybe the geas wouldn't be strong enough, but I think Flemythal would eventually bind him via magic punches.

 

Edit: ToP again? Well, I'll bring back this glorious gif, because I love lizasaurus gifs:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

source

[Siha]

Maybe that's a good idea. I don't think she's ready for the creepy v pretty thread. That place is my "I can't get this inquisitor right"'s worst nightmare.

 

Siha does not like it there either. She says the people are strange. And obviously a guy claimed she were his girlfriend from high school and she felt discomfort. Also, the others are much prettier. And she feels fat.

 

Show a screenshot, I am curious. I bet she's nice.

[Colonelkillabee]

A very good question! I'm not sure. When you put it like that, I almost wonder if any blighted creature could be controlled by the well? 

Well, I think if Isseya could with blood magic, then a normal blighted creature could. But Corypheus... I always found it ironic that he wanted to be a god, when by elven god standards from what we saw, he already is. What's even more interesting is that his desire suggests that there was once something greater, clearly if it's locked away in the eternal city and he believes it has the power he seeks. Get what I mean?

 

Especially if all the elves are actually locked up separately. Meaning whatever power is there probably isn't of their creation.

[Colonelkillabee]

That would be one hell of a battle to see. Maybe the geas wouldn't be strong enough, but I think Flemythal would eventually bind him via magic punches.

I'd like to think so...

 

We all agree that Flemeth is pretty much the baddest ****** in Thedas, right? I like to think my girl would win that, but who knows.

[Elessara]

A very good question! I'm not sure. When you put it like that, I almost wonder if any blighted creature could be controlled by the well? 

 

It's evidently something Corypheus wasn't willing to risk.  Although that leads me to some thoughts.  Corypheus obviously has a disdain for elves, as his insults to an elven inquisitor and Solas during the final battle seem to indicate.  He believed in the Old Gods.  He doesn't really seem to believe in the Maker.  Would he believe in the elven gods at all?  Even if he was aware of the geas on the Well - and it seems that he was considering he sent either Samson or Calpernia as vessels - wouldn't you think that, like Morrigan, he would be somewhat unconcerned?  Morrigan scoffs at the idea of being bound to the will of a dead goddess and even dismisses the possibility of Mythal being a goddess at all.  So, why wouldn't Cory drink from the Well himself?

[Avejajed]

Siha does not like it there either. She says the people are strange. And obviously a guy claimed she were his girlfriend from high school and she felt discomfort. Also, the others are much prettier. And she feels fat.

Show a screenshot, I am curious. I bet she's nice.

I have to turn my damn xbox one first.

[Maria13]

It's evidently something Corypheus wasn't willing to risk.  Although that leads me to some thoughts.  Corypheus obviously has a disdain for elves, as his insults to an elven inquisitor and Solas during the final battle seem to indicate.  He believed in the Old Gods.  He doesn't really seem to believe in the Maker.  Would he believe in the elven gods at all?  Even if he was aware of the geas on the Well - and it seems that he was considering he sent either Samson or Calpernia as vessels - wouldn't you think that, like Morrigan, he would be somewhat unconcerned?  Morrigan scoffs at the idea of being bound to the will of a dead goddess and even dismisses the possibility of Mythal being a goddess at all.  So, why wouldn't Cory drink from the Well himself?

 

Well we all know that Morrigan is arrogant, as well as young, perhaps she believes that she can simply ride it out... Whereas older heads Solas/Corry and far more prudent.

[electricfish]

It's evidently something Corypheus wasn't willing to risk.  Although that leads me to some thoughts.  Corypheus obviously has a disdain for elves, as his insults to an elven inquisitor and Solas during the final battle seem to indicate.  He believed in the Old Gods.  He doesn't really seem to believe in the Maker.  Would he believe in the elven gods at all?  Even if he was aware of the geas on the Well - and it seems that he was considering he sent either Samson or Calpernia as vessels - wouldn't you think that, like Morrigan, he would be somewhat unconcerned?  Morrigan scoffs at the idea of being bound to the will of a dead goddess and even dismisses the possibility of Mythal being a goddess at all.  So, why wouldn't Cory drink from the Well himself?

 

The Old God cult and the Elvhen Empire were around at the same time. He would have (or should) known that the elven gods did exist at the time, but it is unclear on what the gods' status is at the time where Corypheus and friends do the blood ritual to walk in the Fade. 

[Mims]

Meaning whatever power is there probably isn't of their creation.

 

We do know that Elgar'nan battled 'his parents' for control of the world. If there is a power that the ancient elves were exploiting, perhaps it came from whatever beings they were? 

 

There's also the dragons too. Maybe they controlled Thedas at one point, until the elven gods swept in and usurped them. 

 

 

It's evidently something Corypheus wasn't willing to risk.  Although that leads me to some thoughts.  Corypheus obviously has a disdain for elves, as his insults to an elven inquisitor and Solas during the final battle seem to indicate.  He believed in the Old Gods.  He doesn't really seem to believe in the Maker.  Would he believe in the elven gods at all?  Even if he was aware of the geas on the Well - and it seems that he was considering he sent either Samson or Calpernia as vessels - wouldn't you think that, like Morrigan, he would be somewhat unconcerned?  Morrigan scoffs at the idea of being bound to the will of a dead goddess and even dismisses the possibility of Mythal being a goddess at all.  So, why wouldn't Cory drink from the Well himself?

 

Also a good question. He is remarkably silent about the elven gods, considering the only hope for his plan working is an artifact that channels the power of one of them. 

 

It could be, as old as he is, that he has more first hand accounts of them. Writings, personal artifacts. Maybe even a few lingering immortals. Enough to know that they are not actually gods, but powerful entities that could be exploited. The fact that they were trapped, or even dead, would be enough for him to dismiss them as not being the sort of god that he intends to become. 

[Vorathrad]

It's evidently something Corypheus wasn't willing to risk.  Although that leads me to some thoughts.  Corypheus obviously has a disdain for elves, as his insults to an elven inquisitor and Solas during the final battle seem to indicate.  He believed in the Old Gods.  He doesn't really seem to believe in the Maker.  Would he believe in the elven gods at all?  Even if he was aware of the geas on the Well - and it seems that he was considering he sent either Samson or Calpernia as vessels - wouldn't you think that, like Morrigan, he would be somewhat unconcerned?  Morrigan scoffs at the idea of being bound to the will of a dead goddess and even dismisses the possibility of Mythal being a goddess at all.  So, why wouldn't Cory drink from the Well himself?

 

Because even if he doesn't regard them as gods, he knows they were capable of extremely powerful magic, I think. The fact that he's using an elven orb and that he starts searching elven ruins after he fails to get the Anchor proves that he believes only elven magic will be powerful enough to achieve his goal. And you don't want to even contemplate the possibility of being bound to a powerful being whose entire civilization you despised and was wiped out by your (descendants? ancestors? I'm not good with timelines)

[Elessara]

The Old God cult and the Elvhen Empire were around at the same time. He would have (or should) known that the elven gods did exist at the time, but it is unclear on what the gods' status is at the time where Corypheus and friends do the blood ritual to walk in the Fade. 

 

By the time Arlathan fell though, the elven gods had been imprisoned already - or so we're lead to believe.  And that was awhile before Cory's time.  Even then, just because the elves had stories that once there were elven gods doesn't necessarily follow that Cory would believe the elven gods actually existed.  Much like Andrastians don't believe the elven gods actually existed.

[Caddius]

It's evidently something Corypheus wasn't willing to risk.  Although that leads me to some thoughts.  Corypheus obviously has a disdain for elves, as his insults to an elven inquisitor and Solas during the final battle seem to indicate.  He believed in the Old Gods.  He doesn't really seem to believe in the Maker.  Would he believe in the elven gods at all?  Even if he was aware of the geas on the Well - and it seems that he was considering he sent either Samson or Calpernia as vessels - wouldn't you think that, like Morrigan, he would be somewhat unconcerned?  Morrigan scoffs at the idea of being bound to the will of a dead goddess and even dismisses the possibility of Mythal being a goddess at all.  So, why wouldn't Cory drink from the Well himself?

He seems to believe in the power of the elven gods and/or their followers, if not their divinity. As Head Honcho of the Cult of Dumat, I imagine Mr. Sethius Amladaris was privy to the dirty little secrets of the Imperium. Including how much they learned from Arlathan.

Being familiar with all the lengths he went to protect his own temples and secrets and power, he would be very wary of dealing with the Temple of someone whose empire was the model Tevinter based itself off of. He seems to be getting a lot of his information from the Orb. If it was able to tell him about the Sentinels, I imagine it had a great deal to tell about Mythal at her height.

At first, I was in the 'Cory would fall easily to the geas'. But entering the Blight into the mix, if he is under its geas, that gets a lot messier. I think it would end up with the voices refusing to tell him anything because they can't quite overpower him.

Though it's probably hard to take up this 'cautious when it comes to elves' stance since Cornflakes took the Nameless One's reincarnation abuse approach to breaching the Temple's defenses.   

[Elessara]

We do know that Elgar'nan battled 'his parents' for control of the world. If there is a power that the ancient elves were exploiting, perhaps it came from whatever beings they were? 

 

There's also the dragons too. Maybe they controlled Thedas at one point, until the elven gods swept in and usurped them. 

 

 

 

Also a good question. He is remarkably silent about the elven gods, considering the only hope for his plan working is an artifact that channels the power of one of them. 

 

It could be, as old as he is, that he has more first hand accounts of them. Writings, personal artifacts. Maybe even a few lingering immortals. Enough to know that they are not actually gods, but powerful entities that could be exploited. The fact that they were trapped, or even dead, would be enough for him to dismiss them as not being the sort of god that he intends to become. 

 

The orb channels power.  Would he know or even care if the orb supposedly channeled the power of one of the elven gods who have long been missing?  And, from what Dorian says, there are images of ancient Tevinter Somniari carrying orbs like the one Cory has.  So he may know it had been taken from the elves but he might not know much other than that.  

 

Going by the timeline on Virdirthan, in 6625 Arlathan was destroyed.  It wasn't until 7205 that the First Blight began.  That's over 500 years between the two events.  Elves had been enslaved for centuries.  I just don't know that Cory would put any stock into the stories told by slaves.

[SnowPeaShooter]

Reading about the Maker discussion, there is something I really want to ask:

 

One one hand, the Maker is being described as an omnipotent creator of the world. I appreciate the deist idea of a neutral omnipotent "god" (or more like a force) so I would also appreciate the idea of an omnipotent "Maker" if such a "god" is called the "Maker".

 

On the other hand, the belief of this "Maker" is highly connected to the Chantry, which personified "the Maker" a lot through its teachings. For example, by establishing a holy marriage between "Him" and Andraste, by establishing the Old Gods as "His" nemesis, and by describing "Him" as having deep emotions (ie. boredom/dissatisfaction of his spirit creations, disappointment of the less noble characters of his living creations, love for Andraste, etc.) which can affect his actions (left due to disappointment).

 

In my mind these two sides just don't mix well. It just seems to me that the Chantry teachings made this "Maker" less of a "God" but more like a pantheon. However, I also felt, through playing inquisition, that the Chantry, or those who believe in the Maker, is trying to elevate the concept of the Maker. For example, by saying that other pantheons are the different sides of the Maker.   

 

So, should the general interpretation of this "Maker" concept being interpreted as a platform where contents can be added? Like "the Maker created the Elven Gods", "the Maker created the Old Gods", "the Maker created the Qun". But if that is the case, how can the Chantry claim authority on "believing the Maker"?

 

 

I am not sure I conveyed my meanings well......I am kinda confused......

[Colonelkillabee]

We do know that Elgar'nan battled 'his parents' for control of the world. If there is a power that the ancient elves were exploiting, perhaps it came from whatever beings they were? 

Ah yes, forgot about that. Thedas is pretty much going to get swallowed up by something, one of these days... I mean, the blight already threatens to every time it comes, minus that pansy art teacher Urthemiel, lol. What a diva.

 

Maybe they exploited this power in their absence and it got out of control. But lets not spiral out of control again with blight speculation....

 

Unless you all want to feel free. I of course like the blight being of the old gods, and them being something greater, but I think it's more likely that the old gods too tried to control the blight, not actually create it, and they probably became something greater thanks to it, like corypheus, and whatever really created it is still out there.

 

I like that idea better personally. And the other elven gods didn't let themselves be twisted by their "parents" power.

[dragondreamer]

The Old God cult and the Elvhen Empire were around at the same time. He would have (or should) known that the elven gods did exist at the time, but it is unclear on what the gods' status is at the time where Corypheus and friends do the blood ritual to walk in the Fade. 

 

WoT suggests that the elven gods were locked away before humans arrived in Thedas.  And Arlathan was conquered well before the magisters entered the Black City.  Possibly what Corypheus knows either is from whatever knowledge the old Tevinters gathered from slaves and studying the ruins of Elvhenan, or maybe he actually met Solas.  I'm not sure if he actually knows anything of the elven gods personally, he may simply recognize that the ancient elves harnessed godlike power, and he wanted it.

[Colonelkillabee]

Ugh look how derpyderp she looks! Granted it is a phone pic during a cutscene.


Especially next to my lovely Revas who I love so much.
(This might be too big.)

Spoiler

I knew you were over-exaggerating I remember complementing her before on the last pic, and that one dude came in here hating on her eyebrows of all things.

[Avejajed]

Sorry starting over- that was way too big. Imgur sucks on the phone.

 

Ugly inquisitor.

 

and my lovely Revas who nobody apparently can match.

 

[electricfish]

By the time Arlathan fell though, the elven gods had been imprisoned already - or so we're lead to believe.  And that was awhile before Cory's time.  Even then, just because the elves had stories that once there were elven gods doesn't necessarily follow that Cory would believe the elven gods actually existed.  Much like Andrastians don't believe the elven gods actually existed.

 

I'm assuming that the Imperium kept better records of its interactions and eventual war with the elves. Even if they were MIA at the time, Corypheus should have at least done his research on the off chance that his fadewalking would cause some kind of retribution from the elven gods due to his mass killing to fuel the ritual. 

The First Blight almost wiped out everything, including any books, pictures, or other writings detailing anything about the old Imperium's stance on the elven gods. Or anything, really. Corypheus is the only darkspawn magister we've met that seems to have regained some sense of memory about what took place, but we only get fragments of what he thinks happened and his opinions on the races/deities.