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[Maria13]

If he DID know better, he would have made so many stupid mistakes. My inquisitor wouldn't have let him.

I think Solas is trapped in thinking he's the most clever stuff around and that no one would understand him, but he's also bringing this upon himself, by not opening up when the opportunity to finally do is offered on a silver plater.

 

During my playthrough, my Inquisitor has been nothing but curious, calm, forgiving, kind, never quick to judge anyone, always willing to give second chances, always willing to understand people's motives, way of thinking, and backgrounds, despite the hurt they might have done to her, and possessing a huge thirst for knowledge.

 

I just wished global decisions and actions as an Inquisitor during the entire playthrough would have mattered more in the Solas x Lavellan romance, especially in the "big reveal" scene.

 

We don't have enough knowledge about what went down or is about to go down to determine whether or not he made stupid mistakes. It is quite conceivable you are right but for all her strengths Lav is mortal and limited and Solas is not, or not quite.

 

Butterflies live for only a few days we live for about 70 years, there has to be a difference in accrued experience there.

[Armdin]

It's in the Exhalted Plains btw. 

 

I think it's triggered when you enter the Crow Fens. Maybe when you start wading around in the water? (That's when the dialogue started for me anyway.)

 

I'll admit though, the reason why I started taking Sera along was because I wanted her banter regarding Lavellan's and Solas' romance to trigger. So far that hasn't happened yet. 

 

 

I didn't get the approval bump for Fen'Harel's shrine this time. I must've already maxed out on the approval too. 

 

Exalted Plains you say?... Well, ****. I've done that already. ;_;

 

I took her through the Hissing Wastes for that convo., purposely ran around that giant expanse of nothing without mounting up like I wanted to to hear it, and she didn't mention it once. Little witch. xD In fact, she barely spoke at all, and when she did it was toward Cassandra.

[Delphine]

He says that spirits should be able to forgive, not mortals. This is part of the reason why I do not really think Solas is some sort of greater spirit/lifeform. He's holding Cole to a higher standard. 

 

Still a hypocrite! But his suggestion of Cole is more based on what he believes a spirit should be like than what he thinks everyone should be like. Solas tends to veer towards idealism when it comes to how races should be. He would like Sera to be a proper elf, he'd like Varric to follow the stone. He'd like Bull to be free.

 

He doesn't entirely understand that the default ideal of a person is not necessarily how they should be. 

 

Yeah, I guess he does, and I guess that's what my Inquisitor wouldn't agree with, and would hold him to a higher standard as well. Like she holds herself to a higher standard, and everyone around her, she'd expect him, of all people, to not be hypocrite, and open his mind to people being different and wanting to follow their own paths regardless of their races. Mortals should learn to forgive as well.

But guess I'm asking too much from him there.

[Mims]

Solas definitely isn't a sociopath. Neither is Sherlock, for that matter. That line always sort of bothered me. Both of them clearly care about other people. 

 

One of the key traits of a sociopath is a lack of empathy, which Solas fails pretty much immediately. 

[Vorathrad]

I think Solas trapped himself in a circle of wanting to reach an ideal-making huge sacrifices to achieve it-feeling guilty for it and still pining for an ideal-making huge sacrifices to achieve it. He defInitely gets carried out by his romanticised visions of people and the world (he seems to want to uplift everyone in a way: Sera, Varric, IB... perhaps he values the Inquisitor so much because he views him/her as already "uplifted"), and in his desire to right al the wrongs he gets to he point where he's willing to sacrifice anything. Lying might be the slightest of the sins he's willing to commit.

[Avejajed]

There is a difference: Solas is Solas. He never pretends to be a Grey Warden or takes credit for another man's actions. He doesn't put them at risk by claiming to have information on subjects he knows nothing about. Elves giving themselves new names does seem to be an ancient elf thing (since he tells Abelas that he hopes he finds a new name) so him not saying 'sup, guys. Dread Wolf here' isn't a case of lying.

Solas also suffers from a lot of self hatred. A lot of what he says to Blackwall can also be seen as Solas saying it to himself, Blackwall just happens to be someone who has done something wrong that Solas can yell at and vent a lot what he feels about himself at.

Wat?

Solas doesn't pretend to be anything? Anything except a normal elf mage from a small village who spent a lot of time asleep. You think that though some of that may be true what he leaves out is a much bigger lie than BW.

And pretty sure he put EVERYONE at risk by giving his orb o'power to a lunatic darkspawn magister!

[Taelaa]

"Alistair... I'm your mum!"  

 

Omg, on my third play through and last night, speaking to Fiona, she asks me about Alistair and the light went on in my head BOOM! I don't remember this conversation from my first PT and I went templar conscription on my second, so I'm really glad I spoke to her again this time. I love things like this.

[BoscoBread]

But potentially, if he sat Inky down and went through the whole explanation with her he would likewise be exposing her to danger.

 

At the end of the day, he's some kind of deity thousands of years old and she is a Dalish mortal, so quite conceivably, he does know better than she does...

 

But I understand your anger.

I have so many conflicting feelings about this:

1. I hate HATE decisions being made for me.  I have a difficult time de-coupling that from my games...personal baggage etc.  The fact that the Inquisitor goes through so much and they are already a massive target by virtue of who they are, what's the difference at this point.

 

2. HOWEVER, I agree, his lie isn't even in the same same ballpark as Blackwall's.  It's way more significant in terms of potential danger.  So not telling the Inqusitor and leaving has always made sense just in order to protect them from what is to come.  Also, he seems to have a deep seeded aversion to working in groups.  He obviously does fine in the Inquisition, but I think that comes as a bit of a suprise to him.  I get why he chickens out at the end.  It's a big truth and it comes with a lot of baggage.

 

Also if the writers have him pop up again and begging for the Quizzy's help because of the mark, I'm going to be like "WHAT THE HELL DUDE?".  It's kind of like a student running to the teacher after procrastinating on a project, crying and begging for an extension.  I will be so grouchy if he comes to me for help AFTER he ineveitably fucks up again.    

[Illyria]

Wat?

Solas doesn't pretend to be anything? Anything except a normal elf mage from a small village who spent a lot of time asleep. You think that though some of that may be true what he leaves out is a much bigger lie than BW.

And pretty sure he put EVERYONE at risk by giving his orb o'power to a lunatic darkspawn magister!

 

There's no reason why he's not some random elf from a small village who is also the Dread Wolf.  I don't think he lied about anything, he just didn't tell the entire story.

 

Omg, on my third play through and last night, speaking to Fiona, she asks me about Alistair and the light went on in my head BOOM! I don't remember this conversation from my first PT and I went templar conscription on my second, so I'm really glad I spoke to her again this time. I love things like this.

 

Spoiler

You should leave Alistair in the Fade and then talk to Fiona!

[BoscoBread]

Solas definitely isn't a sociopath. Neither is Sherlock, for that matter. That line always sort of bothered me. Both of them clearly care about other people. 

 

One of the key traits of a sociopath is a lack of empathy, which Solas fails pretty much immediately. 

Hahaha. Yeah.  Pretty much 10 min. in, he's like 'whoops i love you all'.

[Meer]

He says that spirits should be able to forgive, not mortals. This is part of the reason why I do not really think Solas is some sort of greater spirit/lifeform. He's holding Cole to a higher standard. 

 

Still a hypocrite! But his suggestion of Cole is more based on what he believes a spirit should be like than what he thinks everyone should be like. Solas tends to veer towards idealism when it comes to how races should be. He would like Sera to be a proper elf, he'd like Varric to follow the stone. He'd like Bull to be free.

 

He doesn't entirely understand that the default ideal of a person is not necessarily how they should be. 

This is the downfall of the idealist, and why revolutions seem to have so few palatable and successful examples. We can link this idealism back to the reality disconnect discussed in MJ's theory, albeit loosely. One can imagine a perfect world, a perfect society, a perfect future, but once you set the machine in motion there's no way of telling where it will go... for better, or worse. This is one thing that Solas has never learned, as your example illustrates. I think it's fascinating (and sad) he continues to believe in the perfect ideal for all things, even though he isn't perfect and it isn't clear which direction is the right one. He hasn't accepted that reality cannot be controlled and perhaps it shouldn't be.

[Lorien19]

I think Solas trapped himself in a circle of wanting to reach an ideal-making huge sacrifices to achieve it-feeling guilty for it and still pining for an ideal-making huge sacrifices to achieve it. He defInitely gets carried out by his romanticised visions of people and the world (he seems to want to uplift everyone in a way: Sera, Varric, IB... perhaps he values the Inquisitor so much because he views him/her as already "uplifted"), and in his desire to right al the wrongs he gets to he point where he's willing to sacrifice anything. Lying might be the slightest of the sins he's willing to commit.

Nicely put,especially about him feeling guilty for making huge sacrifices to achieve the ideal.
Especially when he realises that his goal wasn't achieved in the end.

[Delphine]

Also if the writers have him pop up again and begging for the Quizzy's help because of the mark, I'm going to be like "WHAT THE HELL DUDE?".  It's kind of like a student running to the teacher after procrastinating on a project, crying and begging for an extension.  I will be so grouchy if he comes to me for help AFTER he ineveitably fucks up again.    

 

He won't get any help from me until he spits everything out.

That's the only way for him to break his own circle of misery anyway, but he doesn't even see it, ugh.

[Colonelkillabee]

There's no reason why he's not some random elf from a small village who is also the Dread Wolf.  I don't think he lied about anything, he just didn't tell the entire story.

 

Ehhh, I don't think it's much different. Pretending not to be everything you are is still pretending you're someone else. It all makes you who you are.

[Lorien19]

This is the downfall of the idealist, and why revolutions seem to have so few palatable and successful examples. We can link this idealism back to the reality disconnect discussed in MJ's theory, albeit loosely. One can imagine a perfect world, a perfect society, a perfect future, but once you set the machine in motion there's no way of telling where it will go... for better, or worse. This is one thing that Solas has never learned, as your example illustrates. I think it's fascinating (and sad) he continues to believe in the perfect ideal for all things, even though he isn't perfect and it isn't clear which direction is the right one. He hasn't accepted that reality cannot be controlled and perhaps it shouldn't be.

Exactly,he's striving to achieve the ideal but refuses to accept the fact that the ideal can not be achieved nor that reality cannot be reshaped.Pretty much how Cole erases sb's memory and tries again to console them.In that regard Solas acts a lot like a spirit.

[nikki-tikki]

-snip-

 

I can't help but read all your posts in Dorian's voice now...

[Avejajed]

I hate applying real life examples to video games because it's stupid, but let's pretend it's not.

Let's say I've got a boyfriend. He's terrific. Sweet, kind, loving. Let's name him...Sam. Sam says he's from a small town outside Houston. He's got a great job. Loves his parents. Has a dog and likes to jog.

Sam and I are together awhile. A year, maybe two. Then one night he decides to tell us he's reformed high profile mobster. He spent much of his life in the high powered world of the mafia. He didn't tell me because he didn't want me to get hurt.

Everything else Sam told me was true. He was from that small town he did have a great job, he really was kind and loving.

Did Sam lie to me? Not according to some people on this thread. But if this had actually happened I would seriously be examining my entire relationship. How can you truly love someone you don't know anything about? How can you say you know someone when the biggest part of who they are remains hidden?

[Addai]

His motives in dumping us.

Ah I see. Yes, we can only speculate, and I imagine it's a mix. edit- Though again, we can't speculate too far, since Weekes also says he genuinely cares for Lavellan, which rules out that he was deviously manipulating her. He still did manipulate and deceive her, of course.
 

Did Sam lie to me? Not according to some people on this thread. But if this had actually happened I would seriously be examining my entire relationship. How can you truly love someone you don't know anything about? How can you say you know someone when the biggest part of who they are remains hidden?

As you say, this isn't real life, so what we're really talking about is what makes a good story. With that in mind I'll say that for both Blackwall and Solas, my romantic imagination likes to think that the PC sees the real man despite their defenses and lies. Again I stress, in case anyone mistakes me, I would never put up with this in a real life relationship and would be so outta there. But for the story's sake, both men being good men who earnestly want to put their mistakes right and do good makes up for a lot of sins. Speaking strictly from my Lavellan's POV, she's not stupid and knows that Solas is hiding a lot from her, but sticks with him because she believes in him enough to trust his motives and trust that he'll come clean eventually. She still does, even after the breakup.

But I do think we don't need to mince words about what Solas does- he deceives her and everyone, even if his favorite tactic is misdirection and talking out of two sides of his mouth. We haven't yet seen whether that does more harm than good. He would never have been able to help the Inquisition if people had known who he was and what he did, so for now, the lie is a white one. We'll see how dark it looks when we find out more detail.

[Meer]

I can't help but read all your posts in Dorian's voice now...

Oh, pish. How could I ever match such an incredible fellow as the Dorian Pavus?

_{But seriously, that's hysterical. It's like Dorian joined the Solas fanclub and dissects his character every day to find out why he won't be his friend even though he's super sincere and tries so hard.}   

[Colonelkillabee]

I hate applying real life examples to video games because it's stupid, but let's pretend it's not.

Let's say I've got a boyfriend. He's terrific. Sweet, kind, loving. Let's name him...Sam.

I'm laughing because on Supernatural, the brother Sam gets involved with women all the time without telling them he and (his more badass older brother) Dean are demon and monster hunters and they always end up dead for it.

[Mims]

This is the downfall of the idealist, and why revolutions seem to have so few palatable and successful examples. We can link this idealism back to the reality disconnect discussed in MJ's theory, albeit loosely. One can imagine a perfect world, a perfect society, a perfect future, but once you set the machine in motion there's no way of telling where it will go... for better, or worse. This is one thing that Solas has never learned, as your example illustrates. I think it's fascinating (and sad) he continues to believe in the perfect ideal for all things, even though he isn't perfect and it isn't clear which direction is the right one. He hasn't accepted that reality cannot be controlled and perhaps it shouldn't be.

 

I imagine being immortal might have something to do with it. Someone who is immortal likely has no perception of when it is time to call it quits. There's always time. They see failure over and over again, but without a concrete sense of the here and now acceptance never comes. Its just 'ok, this didn't work for this reason'. But the problem is still unsolved.

 

When you live forever, you might trick yourself into thinking its just a matter of putting the right things in the right places. Just a little bit further down the road. For mortals, eventually life ends or strength fails you and that bridge is natural. You stop and let the next generation handle it. Solas is at his prime in a constant. He might be emotionally tired of it all, but I get the sense he'll keep chasing his tail until someone steps in and stops it. 

[Avejajed]

I'm laughing because on Supernatural, the brother Sam gets involved with women all the time without telling them he and his (more badass older brother) Dean are demon and monster hunters and they always end up dead for it.

Hah, and I don't watch Supernatural so it wasn't even intentional.

[Armdin]

Okay, I'm just doing the Fade scene after Adamant on Nightmare without a tank (Maker help me I hope Nightmare himself isn't too hard but the dialogue with Solas/Cole/Dorian is just too brilliant). Also, I've only recently worked out in this playthrough that R3 (PS4 user obvs.) targets the enemy and brings up its healthbar, and I've been noticing names. Namely, the names of the spider fears. They're called things like The Blight, Blood Magic, Mages, Templars, etc...

 

And then there's one, this ****** one, literally called Ironically, Spiders. Oh BioWare, I love you and your sense of humor. xD

 

Okay, carry on.

[BoscoBread]

Oh, pish. How could I ever match such an incredible fellow as the Dorian Pavus?

_{But seriously, that's hysterical. It's like Dorian joined the Solas fanclub and dissects his character every day to find out why he won't be his friend even though he's super sincere and tries so hard.}   

AHHH. That makes me so sad. You know my feelings on this! I'm going to cry now for Dorian.

[Colonelkillabee]

Okay, I'm just doing the Fade scene after Adamant on Nightmare without a tank (Maker help me I hope Nightmare himself isn't too hard but the dialogue with Solas/Cole/Dorian is just too brilliant). Also, I've only recently worked out in this playthrough that R3 (PS4 user obvs.) targets the enemy and brings up its healthbar, and I've been noticing names. Namely, the names of the spider fears. They're called things like The Blight, Blood Magic, Mages, Templars, etc...

 

And then there's one, this ****** one, literally called Ironically, Spiders. Oh BioWare, I love you and your sense of humor. xD

 

Okay, carry on.

 

What would your fear demons look like? Mine would be either giant cockroaches that could fly, or maggots like Cassandra. Hate those things.