153455 réponses à ce sujet

[_Lucinia]

I have since calmed down and have a bit more compassion when it comes to Blackwall now, because otherwise I would be somewhat of a hypocrite, but I still can't pinpoint why Solas was inherently "good" in my book and Blackwall "bad".

I think it might be because we know that children were murdered as a result of Blackwall's orders.  It's easier to see the smaller picture of Blackwall's deception than it is Solas's big picture.  We don't have something that makes him seem 'evil' like murdered children, so it's easier to forgive him for lying.

[Colonelkillabee]

Nah, she's still posting here. But she did take a lot of crap from people. Haters gonna hate?

Haters gonna be hated.

[Satsumi]

Nah, she's still posting here. But she did take a lot of crap from people. Haters gonna hate?

 

Who gave Liz crap?  I'll feed them to the Mabari >.<

[Sable Rhapsody]

I have since calmed down and have a bit more compassion when it comes to Blackwall now, because otherwise I would be somewhat of a hypocrite, but I still can't pinpoint why Solas was inherently "good" in my book and Blackwall "bad".

 

I did the same thing with Solas and Blackwall.  I'll happily admit that part of it was superficial.  It's a video game, a form of entertainment, and if I find one character more attractive than the other I have a tendency to cut them more slack 

 

But I think for me, what exacerbated the problem was the nature of the reveal, and the role it played in the narrative.  Solas's came at the very end, as a stinger not only for the character, but the story as a whole.  And looking back on it, there's that point in his final romance scene where he almost tells the truth, not because he has to but because he wants to.  Because he cares so much, and feels that Lavellan deserves the truth from him.

 

With Blackwall, if you never get his personal quest, he never comes clean or even comes close to telling quizzy the truth.  And I know it's a little metagamey, but between that and the way his quest is structured with the guy who nearly gets executed, I couldn't help but feel that Blackwall only told the truth because circumstance forced him to.  It doesn't help that his weird and distressing animal cruelty story came RIGHT BEFORE the quest, so I was already thinking, "WTF is wrong with you dude."

 

I dunno.  I honestly think it comes down to implementation, and Solas's worked for me while Blackwall's fell a bit short.

[NightSymphony]

I think it might be because we know that children were murdered as a result of Blackwall's orders.  It's easier to see the smaller picture of Blackwall's deception than it is Solas's big picture.  We don't have something that makes him seem 'evil' like murdered children, so it's easier to forgive him for lying.

It's the dog thing...that story makes me not like him.  I don't hate him, I always save him and forgive him because I understand why he lied...but I don't like him.

[wildannie]

I think it might be because we know that children were murdered as a result of Blackwall's orders.  It's easier to see the smaller picture of Blackwall's deception than it is Solas's big picture.  We don't have something that makes him seem 'evil' like murdered children, so it's easier to forgive him for lying.

Also,  we get the impression that whatever Solas is doing he believes it to be for the greater good however misguided that may be.  Blackwall was acting for his own personal gain, which is harder to forgive.

[WildSky214]

Note to self: never play MP with killabee 

The very first time I played MP I was a little lost on which direction to go so I followed one of the others. I kept hearing some voice say 'over here' which was apparently one of the other players who knew where to go, but I didn't even know you could do that, so I was so confused. Then I heard a disembodied voice that I'm pretty sure was Stephen Hawking call me a f*cking jacka$$.

Not that that's got anything to do with anything, I'm just still really miffed.

[Elven_Glory]

Wait....I missed something. Liz got chased off? I skip through some posts because I had no hope of catching up. I thought the Sola's thread was a safe place for feels and disagreements that resolved amicably.

I thought so, too. I know that there was an altercation in here the other day surrounding a lot of Abalas discussion and... erm... interesting Abalas related artwork that kind of put Solas in the jester's cap, so to speak. I do agree that the Solas thread is probably not the best place to be discussing how one may have come to hate Solas and thus wish to somehow seek revenge in order to absolve one's emotions, but I see no reason to admonish a person over it. We are supposed to be able to discuss our emotions here, and it is unfair for anyone to be singled out for having them. As long as hating someone does not prevent one from being their fan, I don't see why one should not be permitted to stay in a forum specifically designed for fans of said 'someone.'

But I guess not everyone likes a bit of sandpaper once in a while to remind us all that we're not as smooth as we think we are. That's just my $0.02, anyway.

Edited because autocorrect.

[Avejajed]

The worst multiplayer has got to be dungeons on GW2. They are endlessly complicated and people are terrible to new players. Mostly it's speed runs for loot. You literally had to inform ppl in lfg if you didn't know how and needed help running the first few times. It was hard to find people patient enough.

[_Lucinia]

Also,  we get the impression that whatever Solas is doing he believes it to be for the greater good however misguided that may be.  Blackwall was acting for his own personal gain, which is harder to forgive.

Yep.  Big picture vs small picture.  Solas's actions have far-reaching consequences that affected the entire world.  It's hard to put a face to that.  It's like Mordin in ME2 and the genophage; his reaction when finding the dead female.  Seeing that waste of life makes him see the smaller picture, and humanize it.  A tortured dog, bad decision for personal gain... you can put a face to that, so to speak.  That's why, to me, it's easier to see Solas as not as wrong as Blackwall when it comes to decieving you on their identity.

[Sable Rhapsody]

It's the dog thing...that story makes me not like him.  I don't hate him, I always save him and forgive him because I understand why he lied...but I don't like him.

 

Same.  I used to work at an animal shelter, so...yeah.  Not a good story to hear.

[Colonelkillabee]

The very first time I played MP I was a little lost on which direction to go so I followed one of the others. I kept hearing some voice say 'over here' which was apparently one of the other players who knew where to go, but I didn't even know you could do that, so I was so confused. Then I heard a disembodied voice that I'm pretty sure was Stephen Hawking call me a f*cking jacka$$.

Not that that's got anything to do with anything, I'm just still really miffed.

MP brings the worst out of people... they're very unforgiving to "n00bs", lol.

[MoonDrummer]

The thing I don't get about blackwall is why he didn't just go to the grey wardens anyway.

[Colonelkillabee]

I thought so, too. I know that there was an altercation in here the other day surrounding a lot of Abalas discussion and... erm... interesting Abalas related artwork that kind of put Solas in the jester's cap, so to speak. I do agree that the Solas thread is probably not the best place to be discussing how one may have come to hate Solas and thus wish to somehow seek revenge in order to absolve one's emotions, but I see no reason to admonish a person over it. We are supposed to be able to discuss our emotions here, and it is unfair for anyone to be singled out for having them. As long as hating someone does not prevent one from being their fan, I don't see why one should not be permitted to stay in a forum specifically designed for fans of said 'someone.'

But I guess not everyone likes a bit of sandpaper once in a while to remind us all that we're not as smooth as we think we are. That's just my $0.02, anyway.

Edited because autocorrect.

I know exactly who was involved, but I'm not going to bring up names. What's in the past is in the past, and I'm pretty sure Liz is still posting here when she feels like it.

 

And if not, that's her choice. She knows we love her here regardless of the few people who gave her a hard time, so if she feels more comfortable posting in another thread, then that's fine. No need for it to go any further than that. Liz always has a place here no matter what, as does everyone else.

[Uirebhiril]

I have since calmed down and have a bit more compassion when it comes to Blackwall now, because otherwise I would be somewhat of a hypocrite, but I still can't pinpoint why Solas was inherently "good" in my book and Blackwall "bad".

 

I felt the same way and finally answered it for myself, though I'm not entirely sure that the answer is satisfactory. It's just what makes sense for how I feel about it at this point in time.

 

With Blackwall, the murder of a whole family is horrible... but what was worse, even beyond not speaking up to stop the slaughter of children just so he could save face, was that he ran from the consequences and then spent years trying to play the part of a noble and good Warden who would selflessly sacrifice all for others. And it is possible he might do just that - but not because that is who HE is, rather that it's because it's what's "expected" to live up to the picture he made in his mind of what it means. It's insincere. It's not him actually coming to terms with things, dealing with it, owning it, and then moving forward a changed man. It's just him still playing at the noble fantasy to appear like a good guy. Not in the deceptive manipulative way, but the man he could be is hidden and drowned in cowardice while he tries frantically to uphold a tarnished image of nothing.

 

Just my personal views on what is a very fascinating character.

 

As for Solas, if we are to be honest we don't have quite as much information to go on. We do know that the person we saw was the real deal, just that he didn't show us all that he is. Whatever self-suffering Solas is holding himself to can be speculated and laughed at, but I'm going to hold my final views on that until we get more information. He may have made some supremely bad decisions in the past - or the decisions he made, while bad, were the least of all evils at a point where something had to be done. He may have some screwed up idea that Only He Can Fix it... or he might actually be the only one capable of fixing, changing, or preventing a great big bad thing. Perhaps he is going to tear down the world... or tear himself down to save it. It's anyone's best guess until there's DLC or the next game.

[Sable Rhapsody]

MP brings the worst out of people... they're very unforgiving to "n00bs", lol.

 

I had a surprisingly good time with ME3's multiplayer, even when playing with people who obviously knew way more than I did.  Everyone was really nice and polite.  Though it probably helped that there was no text chat, and people are less willing to be utter d***bags when they're confronted with talking to an actual person.

[Colonelkillabee]

I had a surprisingly good time with ME3's multiplayer, even when playing with people who obviously knew way more than I did.  Everyone was really nice and polite.  Though it probably helped that there was no text chat, and people are less willing to be utter d***bags when they're confronted with talking to an actual person.

I think it's more that the only enemy is AI. You play halo or cod (why would you play cod anymore) and it's not the case. That is, when everyone still chatted in game that is. Now people stick to their private chat parties, so it's not nearly as bad. Honestly I miss the trash talking. It was awesome.

 

But yes, I too love ME3 multiplayer. Krogans for the win. Graal shotgun all day.

[Mims]

Part of the problem with judging Solas is that until we have an actual account of what happened, it is extremely hard to tell the difference between what Solas is actually guilty of and what Solas thinks he is guilty of.

 

He's absolutely guilty of something. And I would never suggest that Blackwall is any better or worse until we actually know what exactly went down in Arlathan and with Corypheus. To do otherwise is basically a gamble. 

 

I'll say from a personal perspective, Blackwall just doesn't resonate with me as much as Solas does. But it has nothing to do with what either of them are guilty of. I just did not feel as engaged with Blackwall, and I can't quite put my finger on why. It would have been nice if he had gotten some more character moments or chances to shine. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Same.  I used to work at an animal shelter, so...yeah.  Not a good story to hear.

I love dogs to death, and I am especially sensitive to dog deaths because of my last dog, but honestly all he did was exactly what the majority of people would have done. Ignore the group of sickos killing a defenseless animal, so they don't do the same to you.

 

Especially in this setting where people aren't as in love with animals as we are in our society. So it didn't bother me much personally. It was realistic.

[NightSymphony]

I think also...our character doesn't even know Solas is lying yet. All the Inquisitor knows is that he can't possibly be from that town he says he is from because of what Liliana says.

[_Lucinia]

Part of the problem with judging Solas is that until we have an actual account of what happened, it is extremely hard to tell the difference between what Solas is actually guilty of and what Solas thinks he is guilty of.

 

He's absolutely guilty of something. And I would never suggest that Blackwall is any better or worse until we actually know what exactly went down in Arlathan and with Corypheus. To do otherwise is basically a gamble. 

 

I'll say from a personal perspective, Blackwall just doesn't resonate with me as much as Solas does. But it has nothing to do with what either of them are guilty of. I just did not feel as engaged with Blackwall, and I can't quite put my finger on why. It would have been nice if he had gotten some more character moments or chances to shine. 

I think it might be because Blackwall is always saying things that he thinks a Grey Warden would say, instead of what he would say.  He's really built them up to be these noble self-sacrificing heroes (which they are).  I remember when Revelations happens and you confront him about his past, the change in his tone gave me chills.  He sounded nothing like the Blackwall I had come to know.  Blackwall acts a part to hide his true self.  Solas shows his true self while hiding his identity.  I am making an assumption of course, we don't know the truth of everything yet.  But I believe that Solas was always honest in one thing, and that is the personality he presented us with.

[Elven_Glory]

I had a surprisingly good time with ME3's multiplayer, even when playing with people who obviously knew way more than I did.  Everyone was really nice and polite.  Though it probably helped that there was no text chat, and people are less willing to be utter d***bags when they're confronted with talking to an actual person.

I loved ME3's MP. The only MP I have ever had feelings for. Most of the time I dread having to play a game with another person because... well, I'm not always so great at 'catching on' and people tend to either take advantage of that or get really pissed off at me for some yet-to-be-determined reason. I have little patience for people like that, so I usually just opt not to play MP games with people I don't know. However, my roommate and best friend at the time kind of pushed me into playing the multiplayer and I actually really enjoyed it. I also really miss my roommate. Like... a lot. I haven't talked to him in over 2 years, which is really rough for someone who used to be your best friend. But I have a family now and he's still living exactly as he did when we were 25, and I'm not sure which one of us is worse off...

[Sable Rhapsody]

I remember when Revelations happens and you confront him about his past, the change in his tone gave me chills.  He sounded nothing like the Blackwall I had come to know.  Blackwall acts a part to hide his true self.  Solas shows his true self while hiding his identity.  I am making an assumption of course, we don't know the truth of everything yet.  But I believe that Solas was always honest in one thing, and that is the personality he presented us with.

 

Definitely.  I got the feeling like I'd gotten to know who Blackwall wanted to be, not who he actually was.  The two concepts might have drawn closer by the end of the game, but having watched his romance arc on YouTube, I feel like he was a character who (like Thane and Jack in ME2) had important character moments locked behind the romance.  It almost seems that the only way to really get who he actually was as a person was to romance him, and without it, the follow-up on his personal quest felt lacking.

 

tl;dr: Character I like in concept, not so much in execution.

[Addai]

Same. I don't want anyone to think I dislike Solas. I know we have very protective people here and I'd hate to be forced to the Abelas thread like Liz was. I just want to know the facts before I make any hasty judgments on his character or intent. I don't think he's as blameless and pure as the rose-colored glasses of this thread make him out to be.

  I thought we just spent a whole day talking about how he's deceptive, ruthless and careless of mortal life.

I think it might be because Blackwall is always saying things that he thinks a Grey Warden would say, instead of what he would say. He's really built them up to be these noble self-sacrificing heroes (which they are). I remember when Revelations happens and you confront him about his past, the change in his tone gave me chills. He sounded nothing like the Blackwall I had come to know. Blackwall acts a part to hide his true self. Solas shows his true self while hiding his identity. I am making an assumption of course, we don't know the truth of everything yet. But I believe that Solas was always honest in one thing, and that is the personality he presented us with.

I have to disagree there, though I think you're supposed to be shocked at his anger in the prison, hence why the Inquisitor takes a step back. But it's pretty clear from the jump that he has a low opinion of himself and talks about honor as something out there that he can never have. Even in his subtle tells like how he closes his eyes when he talks about the Wardens being an order that sacrifices for others. I feel rotten for him now when I see him struggling so hard to cover up. I did like his romance, though I admit it didn't grab me as much as I'd hoped, and Cullen's is blah so I was spoiled on the first run really. I'd rather have a good story that ends in sadness than be bored but get a happy ending.

[BoscoBread]

I think it might be because Blackwall is always saying things that he thinks a Grey Warden would say, instead of what he would say.  He's really built them up to be these noble self-sacrificing heroes (which they are).  I remember when Revelations happens and you confront him about his past, the change in his tone gave me chills.  He sounded nothing like the Blackwall I had come to know.  Blackwall acts a part to hide his true self.  Solas shows his true self while hiding his identity.  I am making an assumption of course, we don't know the truth of everything yet.  But I believe that Solas was always honest in one thing, and that is the personality he presented us with.

This.  I really don't think he'll change MUCH when he finally comes clean.  I think that's sort of the point, he may say I was 'cocky, hot blooded' but then he grew up.  There's definitely a strength to his character, though, I don't want to push his "passion" aside for the calm he has cultivated.  He may be more up-front with that in the future, but I doubt by much.  I think if he turned into a rage-machine it would be sort of undoing the contrition he feels.

 

Blackwall is different in that he doesn't have the same strength of character Solas has.  Sorry Blackwall fans. He really doesn't seem like he truly confronted the ugliness in his past UNTIL the Inquisition.So we'll probably see him working through it in upcoming DLC etc.