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[RebbyWriter]

I am here procrastinating on my homework. I just watched the entire ending again. I just...I love it. It's so dramatic.. The reveal, the effects, the music, the way Solas looks into the camera and I'm all like "MOAR BIOWARE. PLS!"

[Maria13]

Citizen Kane. And it's Orson Welles.

 

The point of the scene is that Kane is a press magnate who has ended up marrying an opera singer and he pays for her to star in this production.  She stinks and sings really badly and everyone sits there stunned, even Kane himself, but because he is determined not to loose face he gets up and starts clapping and then everyone, because he is the most powerful person in the theatre gets up and starts applauding too.

[nikki-tikki]

Who gave Liz crap?  I'll feed them to the Mabari >.<

 

Unicorns.

 

The thing I don't get about blackwall is why he didn't just go to the grey wardens anyway.

 

Probably shame. I dunno. That's the vibe I get, that even though Grey Wardens take in the worst, he still didn't feel good enough for them. Especially since one died in his place.

[Vorathrad]

I think also...our character doesn't even know Solas is lying yet. All the Inquisitor knows is that he can't possibly be from that town he says he is from because of what Liliana says.

In my book, concealing the truth behind "I saw it on the Fade" is definitely lying. Conveniently avoiding truth is lying as well. But much as with the godhood discussion, here we are entering into what each considers "lying". Though I'm convinced many of his "I saw it on the Fade" were outright lies.

I don't know why I remembered it now, but someone asked some pages ago whether our Lavellan is pissed off by Abelas and Solas saying she's not part of their people. My Lavellan wasn't so much pissed of by this as by the disdain towards "the others". She just can't get how "you're not my people" almost equals "you're worthless". Also as I mentioned when recalling a little headcanon of mine, when Solas bashes on the Dalish in front of Lavellan, he is bashing her parents, her siblings, her friends, her family. THAT pisses her off to no end.

[Sable Rhapsody]

  I thought we just spent a whole day talking about how he's deceptive, ruthless and careless of mortal life.

 

He's also lonely, vulnerable, and capable of tremendous empathy and compassion.  IMO Solas the soft-spoken hobo apostate and Solas the ruthless Dread Wolf are not two different people.  Just one funny egghead with a million contradictions and complexities.  We might individually prefer different facts of his personality, but they're all part of him.

[_Lucinia]

Definitely.  I got the feeling like I'd gotten to know who Blackwall wanted to be, not who he actually was.  The two concepts might have drawn closer by the end of the game, but having watched his romance arc on YouTube, I feel like he was a character who (like Thane and Jack in ME2) had important character moments locked behind the romance.  It almost seems that the only way to really get who he actually was as a person was to romance him, and without it, the follow-up on his personal quest felt lacking.

 

tl;dr: Character I like in concept, not so much in execution.

Solas suffers a bit from this as well.  PW said he wrote the romance to make him more sympathetic (and sadder).  The people whose Inquisitor did not get along with him, or didn't interact with him much, lose a lot of the good that us that romanced him, got to see. 

(Just wanted to mention that I don't hate Blackwall.  I agree that I think the only reason he confronts his past is because he felt he had no choice.  BUT!!!  I think that if it wasn't for being a part of the Inquisition he never would have done it.  He would have stayed in his little cabin pretending to be a Grey Warden for the rest of his life, and never attempted to be the man he was masquerading as.  I really believe him when he says he wants to make up for what he did.)

[Cecilia]

I have thought about and am still thinking about the whole Blackwell issue and my love for Solas a lot. I really really don't like Blackwell. He wasn't that interesting to me in the first place and before I played I thought I would romance him in like my 9th playthrough. But then his true colors were shown and I started to just despise him and never want to romance him. I find him so disgusting and I usually have a thing for men with beards. I still always recruit him, but whenever he talks I just start screaming "LIAR" at my screen and my poor screen really doesn't deserve that. That being said, why I am more than forgiving when it comes to Solas. He lies about something quite big, has plans to do something apparently horrible in the future, and already did something quite bad (give the orb to Cornflakes), but why do I still think he is just the greatest thing?

I have since calmed down and have a bit more compassion when it comes to Blackwall now, because otherwise I would be somewhat of a hypocrite, but I still can't pinpoint why Solas was inherently "good" in my book and Blackwall "bad".

 

Motivation, I think, plays a huge part in it. With Solas, a lot of what he did is kept pretty ambiguous, but it's implied to be a reasonably selfless act for a start, whereas what Blackwall was hiding was this very horrendous act that was done for money. (I always save BW and I don't hate him at all - he reminds me of a big sad puppy, but objectively, I will fight anyone who says he doesn't deserve to die. Only, from my Inquizzy's pov, it wasn't about what BW deserved, it was about what the world and the Inquisition needed. Fighting words so there.) That aside, like a lot of people have already mentioned, Solas may not share his entire identity with you, his lie is mostly one of omission - he never pretends to be someone he just isn't. He will out and out tell you he's made mistakes in the past out of arrogance - the mistakes of a younger elf, etc. etc. he simply omits the nature and extent of those mistakes. With BW, we have someone who actively pretends he isn't who he is and takes on the identity of someone he isn't - and again as many people have mentioned, his lie could have serious consequences for everyone - what if we were relying on his ability to sense darkspawn? what if someone became tainted and needed to try the Joining? And, in fact, his lie does come back to hurt you after the revelation if you chose to use his Grey Warden treaties - there's a War Table op where you need to answer to a lot of angry allies demanding reparations for your use of the treaties. 

 

Finally, for Solas, what he does isn't about himself - and that's something BW is still only learning as a character (again, that whole dialogue with Cole where he's trying to get Cole to forgive the templar that caused the death or original!Cole as a stand in for the children BW murdered forgiving BW and Cole basically has to tell him it's not about you, the victims don't care what happens to you). In terms of accepting what he has done as an unchangeable part of himself and something he has to live with and knowing that his future actions should be done because they are the right thing to do, not because they are an addition to the opposite side of his balance sheet, Blackwall is still years behind Solas.

 

Maybe I'm a little harsh on the poor blackbeard puppy here but I honestly think the two are parallel characters (like Viv and Sera) but hardly comparable in terms of "oh I reacted this way to Solas so I must react the same way to Blackwall vice versa"

[Elven_Glory]

He's also lonely, vulnerable, and capable of tremendous empathy and compassion.  IMO Solas the soft-spoken hobo apostate and Solas the ruthless Dread Wolf are not two different people.  Just one funny egghead with a million contradictions and complexities.  We might individually prefer different facts of his personality, but they're all part of him.

I hope one day he will open up more to our respective Lavellans so that they can decide if they love him for who he really is or just who they thought he was. They deserve at least that much... the poor girls.

and now, everyone else, too... who has the Solas-romances-all mod.

[RebbyWriter]

About the Blackwall thing..

 

I didn't like him. I tried but I could not. I think the difference between Solas and Blackwall is Solas is trying to actively move forward and repair what he has done and Blackwall is just stagnant. Like, even after the truth is revealed, he still wants to be called Blackwall. I was like "UGHH NO!" I feel like he was just trying to cling onto what he wants to be, which is the man he admired.

 

I did like his story and he was an interesting character, though...it just didn't resonate with me, I guess?

[Vorathrad]

  I thought we just spent a whole day talking about how he's deceptive, ruthless and careless of mortal life.

 

And here I felt like I spent hours discussing and drawing parallels between two interesting, morally grey characters.

 

The point of the scene is that Kane is a press magnate who has ended up marrying an opera singer and he pays for her to star in this production.  She stinks and sings really badly and everyone sits there stunned, even Kane himself, but because he is determined not to loose face he gets up and starts clapping and then everyone, because he is the most powerful person in the theatre gets up and starts applauding too.

 

Really, I'll just stop using gifs.

[Uirebhiril]

He's also lonely, vulnerable, and capable of tremendous empathy and compassion.  IMO Solas the soft-spoken hobo apostate and Solas the ruthless Dread Wolf are not two different people.  Just one funny egghead with a million contradictions and complexities.  We might individually prefer different facts of his personality, but they're all part of him.

 

An important thing to remember about him, or anyone really. Putting someone on a pedestal is the surest way to disappointment. No one can live up to the expectations in another's mind, and for the sake of all that is good and healthy, no one should believe they have to.

[Maria13]

 

As for Solas, if we are to be honest we don't have quite as much information to go on. We do know that the person we saw was the real deal, just that he didn't show us all that he is. Whatever self-suffering Solas is holding himself to can be speculated and laughed at, but I'm going to hold my final views on that until we get more information. He may have made some supremely bad decisions in the past - or the decisions he made, while bad, were the least of all evils at a point where something had to be done. He may have some screwed up idea that Only He Can Fix it... or he might actually be the only one capable of fixing, changing, or preventing a great big bad thing. Perhaps he is going to tear down the world... or tear himself down to save it. It's anyone's best guess until there's DLC or the next game.

 

This. Bottom line is, we don't know where he's come from, what he's done and what was at stake... All we have are rumours, likewise we don't know what his plans are, what he will do and what might be at stake. 

 

In between these two states of unknowingness we met the guy talked to him and interacted with him... And he turned out to be charismatic, balanced, humble and reasonable... All we really have to judge him on is this, his direct interactions with us and our other companions.

[meanieweenie]

Hi Solas thread! *waves*
 
I still haven't fully finished my Solasmance so I'm still trying to avoid some final spoilers before I can fully bask in the tragic elven glory with y'all.  But, he has now crept into my stories, so I thought I would share what I'm affectionately calling my "jealous Solas" story from the Page 5000 Cullen thread celebration. It's my first time writing Solas, so be kind!  
 
TTFN!

People Will Talk by R2sMuse

 
Del Lavellan has an awkward encounter with Cullen that reveals some lingering issues from his time in Kirkwall, but also complicates her relationships with both the Commander and Solas. Set during DA:I, mid-game. F!Lavellan/Solas, F!Lavellan/Cullen. 
 
Rated: M

Hey guys... Spicy Solas alert for chapter two! 

[Vorathrad]

He's also lonely, vulnerable, and capable of tremendous empathy and compassion.  IMO Solas the soft-spoken hobo apostate and Solas the ruthless Dread Wolf are not two different people.  Just one funny egghead with a million contradictions and complexities.  We might individually prefer different facts of his personality, but they're all part of him.

 

He has contradictions, like every real person does; and to me it's one of the reasons he feels wonderfully written.

[_Lucinia]

I have to disagree there, though I think you're supposed to be shocked at his anger in the prison, hence why the Inquisitor takes a step back. But it's pretty clear from the jump that he has a low opinion of himself and talks about honor as something out there that he can never have. Even in his subtle tells like how he closes his eyes when he talks about the Wardens being an order that sacrifices for others. I feel rotten for him now when I see him struggling so hard to cover up. I did like his romance, though I admit it didn't grab me as much as I'd hoped, and Cullen's is blah so I was spoiled on the first run really. I'd rather have a good story that ends in sadness than be bored but get a happy ending.

Oh I was shocked.  A lot of my observations are after the fact, after knowing the truth.  After finishing the game I paid a lot more attention to Blackwall and Solas's dialogue because I had missed a lot of the hints.  Blackwall gives me a lot of conflicting feelings (and I have never romanced him) because I understand that he did a terrible thing and ran from it, something that is hard to forgive.  I have always rescued him from prison and released him to atone for his mistakes. 

[Siha]

I didn't like him. I tried but I could not. I think the difference between Solas and Blackwall is Solas is trying to actively move forward and repair what he has done and Blackwall is just stagnant. Like, even after the truth is revealed, he still wants to be called Blackwall. I was like "UGHH NO!" I feel like he was just trying to cling onto what he wants to be, which is the man he admired.

 

I have a massive problem with Blackwall in the romance. I cannot stand the way he talks to me. But apart from that I do not think he lives in the past. Quite the opposite actually. He wants to make up for the past (see personal quest), wants to get out with the truth but doesn't dare in the end, but really wants to make a difference in the future. Hence working for the inquisition, hence trying to save his man. He sticks to Blackwall as an expression of this attempt to redeem himself, not to cling to the past.

 

Really, I'll just stop using gifs.

 

I want that high-five gif for that!

[Addai]

Blackwall is different in that he doesn't have the same strength of character Solas has.  Sorry Blackwall fans. He really doesn't seem like he truly confronted the ugliness in his past UNTIL the Inquisition.So we'll probably see him working through it in upcoming DLC etc.

Well, again, I have to defend him in that I think he confronted it every single day by a ) getting up in the morning and b ) not being an evil bastard or drunk. That's what most people would've done if they couldn't just forget or rationalize what they'd done.

I think I want to like Blackwall more than I actually do, because he's a blokey bloke and has chest hair (presumably) and is basically a dwarf. I do appreciate the character risks Bioware took with him. Still, I think it'd be a whole different game if he and IB were the only male romance options. I doubt I'd have played past the first runthrough. As it is, I keep trying to play other characters but missing Solavellan.
 

And here I felt like I spent hours discussing and drawing parallels between two interesting, morally grey characters.

That too, lol. I was responding to Avejajed's comment that the thread has rose-colored glasses. We like him here (no surprise) and there's a spectrum on how hard people take his negatives, but I don't think we're a bunch of fawning fangirls. Much.

Oh, and Liz shouldn't go anywhere. I don't get the whole Abelas thing but it would be sad if we didn't get to see the latest pinups from the Temple of Sacred Asses, whosever ass that is.

[Taelaa]

He's also lonely, vulnerable, and capable of tremendous empathy and compassion.  IMO Solas the soft-spoken hobo apostate and Solas the ruthless Dread Wolf are not two different people.  Just one funny egghead with a million contradictions and complexities.  We might individually prefer different facts of his personality, but they're all part of him.

 

I dunno, I think the whole package just comes together into this fascinating, deeply compelling character that my Lavallen wanted to know from the beginning. It's not like she doesn't know he's being evasive, he's very clear about it not being a good idea for them to get together, but she goes for it anyway, knowing that it might not end well, because she wants to be with him for however long they might have together. And even when he dumps her, he's very clear that he still loves her, he just can't do this right now and she can't help because...reasons..you'll see, etc.

 

This is firmly my favorite BW romance, no matter what happens in the next game, I'm on team Solas.

[Avejajed]

Addai I just never know if you're being sarcastic or not. Lol. I just meant that lots of people in the thread would disagree with some of my viewpoints on Solas being kind of a terrible person sometimes. Not everybody.

And the Welles thing is great, I'm impressed so many have seen the movie. I guess I shouldn't be, but once someone asked me who Humphrey Bogart was and I just couldn't even deal with it.

[MoonDrummer]

Blackwall is one of my favourite companions tbh, he reminds me of a few of my mates.

Erm not that my friends murder children

[Elven_Glory]

I know exactly who was involved, but I'm not going to bring up names. What's in the past is in the past, and I'm pretty sure Liz is still posting here when she feels like it.
 
And if not, that's her choice. She knows we love her here regardless of the few people who gave her a hard time, so if she feels more comfortable posting in another thread, then that's fine. No need for it to go any further than that. Liz always has a place here no matter what, as does everyone else.

Gretchen, I’m sorry I laughed at you that time you got diarrhea at Barnes & Noble. And I’m sorry for telling everyone about it. And I’m sorry for repeating it now.

[_Lucinia]

About the Blackwall thing..

 

I didn't like him. I tried but I could not. I think the difference between Solas and Blackwall is Solas is trying to actively move forward and repair what he has done and Blackwall is just stagnant. Like, even after the truth is revealed, he still wants to be called Blackwall. I was like "UGHH NO!" I feel like he was just trying to cling onto what he wants to be, which is the man he admired.

 

I did like his story and he was an interesting character, though...it just didn't resonate with me, I guess?

I disagree. 

We can only assume what Solas's mistake in the past is, what he did, and what his plans are now.  He doesn't see the Dalish as his people.  Aside from helping close the Breach I don't recall learning anything that Solas is doing to fix things and move forward.  If anything I felt that Solas is holding on to the past too much.  He doesn't see the present as real, he wants what was lost.

 

As for Blackwall wanting to still be called Blackwall -- he said it would be a title rather than a name, something to strive for, the man he would rather be.  This man he admires and would rather be, I don't see how that's a bad thing.  The man he used to be made a choice for personal gain that had an entire family killed.  People can change and be something more than they used to be. 

[Cecilia]

I dunno, I think the whole package just comes together into this fascinating, deeply compelling character that my Lavallen wanted to know from the beginning. It's not like she doesn't know he's being evasive, he's very clear about it not being a good idea for them to get together, but she goes for it anyway, knowing that it might not end well, because she wants to be with him for however long they might have together. And even when he dumps her, he's very clear that he still loves her, he just can't do this right now and she can't help because...reasons..you'll see, etc.

 

This is firmly my favorite BW romance, no matter what happens in the next game, I'm on team Solas.

 

Solas is basically the k-melo-drama romance of DA:I    All that "I can't tell you the truth for your own sake" so the drama drags on for another 1000000 episodes

[Illyria]

And the Welles thing is great, I'm impressed so many have seen the movie. I guess I shouldn't be, but once someone asked me who Humphrey Bogart was and I just couldn't even deal with it.

 

What.

 

How can someone not know frigging RICK?
 

[Maria13]

Really, I'll just stop using gifs.

 

No please don't! And for the record I think that particular gif is magnificent... Full of irony and bitterness...