153455 réponses à ce sujet

[Avejajed]

Exactly. Look at the name he took for himself; Solas, it means pride. Please no one think that I am bashing Solas, or hate him. I love this character. I care about his fate. Even though it broke my heart, his romance is my favorite DA romance.

All assumptions, but let's look at what we think he did and how far reaching the consequences are. According to Dalish lore he locked up the Creators. Putting it together from things he himself has said, and what we saw in game; whatever he did is the reason the Dalish are wandering nomads living a life that they think honors their Gods, putting slave markings on their faces. All the rest live in alienages, are treated like less than actual people. There's slaves, some live in servitude. It's a terrible life. (yes I know this is all an assumption when it comes to how much is Solas's fault) How does anyone redeem themselves from that? Really!

I am by no means downplaying what Blackwall did. His actions had a family murdered. He was a coward. He ran and hid. How is his redemption so less believable than Solas? It's not even on the same scale, I get that, and unfair to compare the two situations as anything even close to equal. One family vs altering the entire world? That's all I am saying. They're both flawed characters, and I am not trying to sway anyone or say that Blackwall deserves more than he has. Just adding some perspective is all. No I don't like Blackwall as a character even close to how much I like Cole and Cass, let alone Solas. This is my attempt to be a bit objective. In the end if you don't like Blackwall it doesn't even matter anyways.

Sorry I'll stop saying anything more on this stuff. Well I'll try to anyways!

I wish people would stop apologizing for bringing it up. I love the point of views expressed here. I think its great to be able to have meaningful exhanges and that open communication is what leads to expanding viewpoints!

(That sentence started off great but got super corny at the end, didn't it. Lol)

[Cecilia]

Exactly.  Look at the name he took for himself; Solas, it means pride.  Please no one think that I am bashing Solas, or hate him.  I love this character.  I care about his fate.  Even though it broke my heart, his romance is my favorite DA romance. 

All assumptions, but let's look at what we think he did and how far reaching the consequences are.  According to Dalish lore he locked up the Creators.  Putting it together from things he himself has said, and what we saw in game; whatever he did is the reason the Dalish are wandering nomads living a life that they think honors their Gods, putting slave markings on their faces.  All the rest live in alienages, are treated like less than actual people.  There's slaves, some live in servitude.  It's a terrible life.  (yes I know this is all an assumption when it comes to how much is Solas's fault)  How does anyone redeem themselves from that?  Really!

I am by no means downplaying what Blackwall did.  His actions had a family murdered.  He was a coward.  He ran and hid.  How is his redemption so less believable than Solas?  It's not even on the same scale, I get that, and unfair to compare the two situations as anything even close to equal.  One family vs altering the entire world?  That's all I am saying.  They're both flawed characters, and I am not trying to sway anyone or say that Blackwall deserves more than he has.  Just adding some perspective is all.  No I don't like Blackwall as a character even close to how much I like Cole and Cass, let alone Solas.  This is my attempt to be a bit objective.  In the end if you don't like Blackwall it doesn't even matter anyways.

Sorry I'll stop saying anything more on this stuff.  Well I'll try to anyways! 

 

Hm~ I'm drawing on implications for Solas, but I'm not going to argue he might not be as guilty of the "all about me" attitude as Blackwall - I just find it less likely given how Solas comes off to me? I'm too tired to mentally delve there right now haha~

 

My main issue with the idea of "redemption" - I don't think Blackwall gains "redemption" because the whole idea of redemption involves some kind of metaphysical balance sheet idea where if your balance sheet tips just the right amount in the right direction you're "redeemed" which is ridiculous - the things you do right never negate the things you do wrong and vice versa. (Ergo I think Blackwall's whole "I must redeem myself" mentality is wrong and false and something he needs to rid himself of - grow as a person, learn from what you've done wrong, but don't go around hunting for redemption that ain't happening mang)

 

But I'll stop harping on it lest I get annoying~ Let's just say Ihateredemptionarcswithapassion

 

/Edit I don't exactly have a rosy picture of Solas either - I just don't think he and Blackwall are that similar beneath the surface. If anything, I feel like Solas' regret is more of a "ohshit this did not turn out the way I thought it would how2fix" whereas Blackwall is more of a "I am such a badbadbad person for doing that what can I do to redeem myself" which is why Blackwall bothers me more. Solas might, honestly, be a much worse person who did bad things and doesn't even care - as long as his goals are achieved - but I have a pet peeve against Blackwall's "I must redeem myself" train of thought (I love Cole - Cole tells it like it is)

 

/Edit2 Basically what I want to say to Blackwall (scream at him sometimes really) is: do good things because they are good things to do, not because you're hoping somewhere in the hazy Maker-glory-shiny-heavens, these innocent murdered kids are looking down on you and deciding you've done enough good that they can forgive you. Stop doing things for your own soul and start doing them for others. I know he's getting there, but I know for a fact he's not there yet and I just want to yank him by the leash until he's completely out of that muck of self pity and looking at the world and other people as a place/people with their own agencies who are not there to fulfill his redemption.

 

/Edit3 My other huge pet peeve is the savior complex (in case no one has guessed)

[_Lucinia]

I wish people would stop apologizing for bringing it up. I love the point of views expressed here. I think its great to be able to have meaningful exhanges and that open communication is what leads to expanding viewpoints!

(That sentence started off great but got super corny at the end, didn't it. Lol)

I apologize because not everyone might enjoy the topic.  I'd hate to be steering it back this way if majority want to move onto something else.  My problem is after I post something I always think of 10 other things I should have said!  Or then someone smarter and more insightful posts something and it makes my alter my stance a little.

 

(It's ok we won't tell anyone else you got a little corny!)

[Maria13]

 

 

Exactly.  Look at the name he took for himself; Solas, it means pride.  Please no one think that I am bashing Solas, or hate him.  I love this character.  I care about his fate.  Even though it broke my heart, his romance is my favorite DA romance. 

All assumptions, but let's look at what we think he did and how far reaching the consequences are.  According to Dalish lore he locked up the Creators.  Putting it together from things he himself has said, and what we saw in game; whatever he did is the reason the Dalish are wandering nomads living a life that they think honors their Gods, putting slave markings on their faces.  All the rest live in alienages, are treated like less than actual people.  There's slaves, some live in servitude.  It's a terrible life.  (yes I know this is all an assumption when it comes to how much is Solas's fault)  How does anyone redeem themselves from that?  Really!

 

Sorry you are lacking any direct evidence whatsoever, this is all assumption, rumour, speculation and innuendo... As you yourself say. So at the end of the day what does it amount to?Nothing.

 

Plus it is bad practice simply use a person's own statements to convict them. It is for the prosecution to discharge the burden of proof and to prove both criminal acts and intent and none of the above does this.  

 

 So insofar as we can prove, Solas has nothing to redeem himself for. Innocent until proven guilty.

[Mims]

Are we sure that Solas goal is not for his own benefit? That there isn't a tinge of fulfilling his pride and his sense of having the right answer? Because I think it's a bit of both: helping the people and soothing his ego (I know, I'm a pain in the Sol-ass)

 

We do not know! But, we do know that Solas worries about exactly that.

 

In one of his conversations with Cole, Cole points out that Solas did the right thing by [presumably sealing away the elven gods.] That he 'didn't do it to be right, he did it to save them.' I doubt Cole would have said that if this wasn't an issue that Solas was mulling over.

 

After all this while, Solas still isn't sure if what he did was partially motivated by his own feelings. He doesn't even necessarily agree with Cole, even when Cole tells him not to worry about it. He just thanks Cole for his concern. 

[Avejajed]

Sorry you are lacking any direct evidence whatsoever, this is all assumption, rumour, speculation and innuendo... As you yourself say. So at the end of the day what does it amount to?Nothing.

Plus it is bad practice simply use a person's own statements to convict them. It is for the prosecution to discharge the burden of proof and to prove both criminal acts and intent and none of the above does this.

So insofar as we can prove, Solas has nothing to redeem himself for. Innocent until proven guilty.

.......this is basically exactly what I'm talking about.

[RebbyWriter]

I wish I could have contributed more to the discussion but an Astronomy paper was calling my name. Now, I am mentally exhausted.

 

Anyway, I have nothing of value to add to the disscussion. I just wanted to say I love you guys. Here, have this:

 

 

http://cardsagainstd...ed-by-kulshedra

[Siha]

I apologize because not everyone might enjoy the topic.  I'd hate to be steering it back this way if majority want to move onto something else. 

 

If the majority wants to move on it will. It's not so hard to just ignore a statement after all. Go on speak your mind, please. Like Avejajed I enjoy reading different opinions (though I do prefer those that use fewer words ) and this thread would be a lot poorer without them. Just like many of the other threads out there.

 

Additionally I happen to agree with much of what you said and I always like that.

[_Lucinia]

Hm~ I'm drawing on implications for Solas, but I'm not going to argue he might not be as guilty of the "all about me" attitude as Blackwall - I just find it less likely given how Solas comes off to me? I'm too tired to mentally delve there right now haha~

 

My main issue with the idea of "redemption" - I don't think Blackwall gains "redemption" because the whole idea of redemption involves some kind of metaphysical balance sheet idea where if your balance sheet tips just the right amount in the right direction you're "redeemed" which is ridiculous - the things you do right never negate the things you do wrong and vice versa. (Ergo I think Blackwall's whole "I must redeem myself" mentality is wrong and false and something he needs to rid himself of - grow as a person, learn from what you've done wrong, but don't go around hunting for redemption that ain't happening mang)

 

But I'll stop harping on it lest I get annoying~ Let's just say Ihateredemptionarcswithapassion

I like redemption arcs, if they're done well.

 

I don't think Blackwall would ever think that his slate would be wiped clean.  The man hates himself too much for that to ever happen.  He really is a tortured soul.  Myself personally, I don't think being good for a while removes the bad things you did.  It just means that you're moving on from who/what you used to be.  it doesn't make up for it, of course not.  Nor should anyone forget it either.

Anyways I won't say anything more either.  I don't think the conversation is going to continue to be productive.  But thank you for debating it with me, I enjoyed looking at the whole thing this way. 

[WildSky214]

I'm playing a fem!Adaar and I swear it looks like Solas is talking to her boobs. I wish I could take videos on my ps3.

[Colonelkillabee]

I wish I could have contributed more to the discussion but an Astronomy paper was calling my name. Now, I am mentally exhausted.

 

Anyway, I have nothing of value to add to the disscussion. I just wanted to say I love you guys. Here, have this:

 

 

http://cardsagainstd...ed-by-kulshedra

 

Did someone say Astronomy? Quick, here's my chance to throw in a song for no reason!

 

Spoiler

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Maria13]

.......this is basically exactly what I'm talking about.

 

0 + 0 + 0 unsurprisingly, = 0

[_Lucinia]

Sorry you are lacking any direct evidence whatsoever, this is all assumption, rumour, speculation and innuendo... As you yourself say. So at the end of the day what does it amount to?Nothing.

 

Plus it is bad practice simply use a person's own statements to convict them. It is for the prosecution to discharge the burden of proof and to prove both criminal acts and intent and none of the above does this.  

 

 So insofar as we can prove, Solas has nothing to redeem himself for. Innocent until proven guilty.

And anything used as proof of Solas' good intentions are the same thing.  So now we're going in a circle. 

 

i was enjoying a healthy debate, I am trying not to be offended by my opinion amounting to "nothing", but maybe I am misunderstanding your intent.  Anyways I am dropping the conversation now.

[Cecilia]

I like redemption arcs, if they're done well.

 

I don't think Blackwall would ever think that his slate would be wiped clean.  The man hates himself too much for that to ever happen.  He really is a tortured soul.  Myself personally, I don't think being good for a while removes the bad things you did.  It just means that you're moving on from who/what you used to be.  it doesn't make up for it, of course not.  Nor should anyone forget it either.

Anyways I won't say anything more either.  I don't think the conversation is going to continue to be productive.  But thank you for debating it with me, I enjoyed looking at the whole thing this way. 

 

Thank you as well! I love character debate/analysis (my "home planet" is the asoiaf fandom so this is basically second nature to me - Jaime's redemption arc is another hotly contested one) 

 

I tend to zone out a bit whenever the hellspiraling and fluffiness reclaim their rightful place in the thread

[Caddius]

Well, here's your chance to stop me if it's lame. Finishing her up on Picarto!

Next time I bump into Abelas during the endgame, the discrepancy between his actual face and your profile picture will give me whiplash.

[Maria13]

And anything used as proof of Solas' good intentions are the same thing.  So now we're going in a circle. 

 

i was enjoying a healthy debate, I am trying not to be offended by my opinion amounting to "nothing", but maybe I am misunderstanding your intent.  Anyways I am dropping the conversation now.

 

I was not referring to your opinion but merely to the evidentiary value on which you base it which amounts to nothing.

[Colonelkillabee]

Well, here's your chance to stop me if it's lame. Finishing her up on Picarto!

Ahhh! Not lame at all She's hot! Toned and athletic without looking like a body builder like so many people do for some reason. It's going great. Make sure you post it in the Cass thread too

[Caddius]

I was not referring to your opinion but merely to the evidentiary value on which you base it which amounts to nothing.

It's true that we don't have any solid information on what Solas seems to blame himself before in the past. We don't know what happened to the Creators, exactly, or Arlathan. It's all foggy.

However.

Giving the Orb to Corypheus, regardless of how it happened, is a huge mistake. One that Solas realizes and acknowledges.

For me, I would harp on a lot more about the foolishness of it, except we don't have crucial details. Like, what on earth made that seem like a good idea? Or, did the passing of the Orb involve a candlelit dinner and avid discussion of ancient barrier techniques?

[Cecilia]

I was not referring to your opinion but merely to the evidentiary value on which you base it which amounts to nothing.

 

You have to admit~ There is something extremely sketchy about giving your orb to Corypheus of all people (or evil darkspawn tainted magisters). No matter how noble your intentions, that is all kinds of shady.

[Cecilia]

It's true that we don't have any solid information on what Solas seems to blame himself before in the past. We don't know what happened to the Creators, exactly, or Arlathan. It's all foggy.

However.

Giving the Orb to Corypheus, regardless of how it happened, is a huge mistake. One that Solas realizes and acknowledges.

For me, I would harp on a lot more about the foolishness of it, except we don't have crucial details. Like, what on earth made that seem like a good idea? Or, did the passing of the Orb involve a candlelit dinner and avid discussion of ancient barrier techniques?

 

Amg you ninja'd me haha

[_Lucinia]

I was not referring to your opinion but merely to the evidentiary value on which you base it which amounts to nothing.

I didn't realize that we were prosectuting an actual case in the real world, instead of debating personality traits of characters in a fantasy video game? 

We were discussing the ease of which people feel they can forgive Solas for his deception, yet not Blackwall.  That was it.  All anyone has either way are assumptions.  Good or bad. 

[Illyria]

You have to admit~ There is something extremely sketchy about giving your orb to Corypheus of all people (or evil darkspawn tainted magisters). No matter how noble your intentions, that is all kinds of shady.

 

Since Bianca says that she gave the red lyrium location to a Grey Warden mage (either Larnius or Janeka) it's likely that he gave it to Cornflakes in one of his Warden suits.

[Siha]

0 + 0 + 0 unsurprisingly, = 0

i was enjoying a healthy debate, I am trying not to be offended by my opinion amounting to "nothing", but maybe I am misunderstanding your intent.  Anyways I am dropping the conversation now.

 

First, I don't understand the equation.

Second, seems like Maria13 is cross with many people today and I don't quite understand why. Most of all i don't appreciate when people are attacked for expressing their opinion here. Is that actually necessary? Lucinia and Avejajed both have the right to say what they think, I even agree with both of them (even though I know that does not matter), and I really don't like this way of branding everyone with a different opinion as wrong or stupid. Can we stop this please?

[Mims]

 Or, did the passing of the Orb involve a candlelit dinner and avid discussion of ancient barrier techniques?

 

See, if he had chosen the Architect, all this and more could have been his!