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[Roxy]

I...totally missed some drama that went on in here earlier.

 

 

..........

......That's probably a good thing.  XD

 

 

EDIT: Anyways hugs to everybody.

 

Modifié par Roxy, 26 février 2015 - 01:41 .

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Rabbitonfire]

All right, let me run something by y'all. I've noticed that a lot of people who's chosen the removal of vallaslin route say that their clan would reject them because of it. I find this surprising because as stuck up as the Dalish are, I wouldn't see them being angry about that, more so disappointed in that Lavellan that she would be 'tricked by a flat-ear instead of following clan tradition'. They would think her naïve and pity her.At least, my version of clan Lavellan would feel that way. What do y'all think?

well Lavellan wears closed-toe shoes. That's already a non-elfy thing.

[laurelinvanyar]

What intrigues me about this line is that this line is attributed to him prior to the end of the practice of uthenera. And we're told that the elves were immortal. Odd choice of wording in that situation, isn't it?

In "Falon'din: Friend of the Dead" (which is written by Gisharel and therefore somewhat suspect) it talks about Falon'din walking with Dreamers beyond the veil.  Not beyond the Fade. Then, the Song to Falon'din (which might actually be from Elvhenan, since it is found in the ToM) extolls him to lead them "..through shapeless worlds and airless skies" which sounds suspiciously like the Fade again. 

 

It makes me wonder if souls of the dead do not actually go beyond the Fade at all, but rather just go beyond the veil, into the Fade, to eventually reform and be reborn. Perhaps only elven souls worked this way, which would explain their blood-connection to the Fade. 

[RogueBait]

Yogi Solas would like us to cultivate deep, abiding inner peace. (Art under the tag.)

 

Spoiler

 

I am sure he'd share my intense love for child pose, because it's basically a small step from sleeping.

 

Edited for pro-tips.

[Cecilia]

Harsh? Hatred? Haha, not quite. but if that's how you wanna interpret it, go ahead.

I just feel there's no part in the DA universe where some people, as a culture, have no gods at all, or are not gnostic in any way. Everybody HAS to believe in something, whatever that might be.

I think DA should to have a race/culture that goes against that. It sometimes all feels like whether it be Andraste, the Maker, the elven gods, the Qun, or Tevinter gods, you HAVE to believe in something. Maybe the Dwarves are the closest to that, I guess, though I don't know their lore as much, but it feels they're still kind of gnostic in a way.

But you're right, I'm still discovering a lot (even though I spoiled myself a lot because I read way too much and don't care about spoiling myself either).

It is not so much aversion than a "it'll be great to witness it/initiate it" moment, on an anthropological and social level. But again, feel free to interpret is as you wish.

 

Hm~ I feel like that is more a result of the "time period" they exist in - I'm assuming agnostics/atheists do exist, but there is no such thing as an agnostic/atheist culture because during that time (pre-Enlightenment) there hasn't ever truly been the level of scientific thought/study that is requisite for an agnostic culture to form. People are still too superstitious with too much of the natural world left unexplained to be able to embrace agnosticism/atheism on a wide scale.

 

It's probably also a little different in a world where ultra-powerful beings actually walked the lands in relatively recent history and concepts like magic, which are much harder to explain through science, exist. Rather than saying everyone in Thedas believe in a God/gods, it's probably more accurate to say that people in Thedas all believe in the power certain beings can hold over their lives - the elven pantheon/Old Gods may not be God/gods in the same way the Maker is a God, but they are "deities" all the same, because they possess a significantly higher level of power which allows them to unduly influence the existence of "lower beings." (Basically there's probably a difference between a god and a Creator - it may not be the case that everybody in Thedas believes in a Creator) Also, the Qun is more akin to Asiatic religions insofar as it is closer to philosophy/thought than a form/system of worship, so I wouldn't say that the Qunari worship a deity at all. They simply subscribeto a philosophy/thought/way of life. 

 

/Edit Just from an anthropological/sociological perspective, I think it's important for us to remember that "religion" as many people in the West define it doesn't apply to all religion and is a strictly Judeo-Christian perspective on the issue. In fact, the Chinese word for "religion" is "Zong Jiao" and literally translates to "Teachings of the Ancestors" - something which removes the necessity of a deity from the idea of a religion. For example, Confucianism is notoriously agnostic. While Confucianism does point to an ideal past that has been lost and cannot be recovered as well as the existence of ancient sages (not gods/deities/superpowered people, but extra-moral/wise humans who may or may not have been different in terms of life span/ability than modern humanity) from whom modern humanity should derive our morals/learn, it explicitly refuses to discuss questions of "strange powers and undefined gods/spirits."

[Avejajed]

I...totally missed some drama that went on in here earlier.


..........
......That's probably a good thing. XD

...wait. There was drama??? Where was I?

[BoscoBread]

All right, let me run something by y'all. I've noticed that a lot of people who's chosen the removal of vallaslin route say that their clan would reject them because of it. I find this surprising because as stuck up as the Dalish are, I wouldn't see them being angry about that, more so disappointed in that Lavellan that she would be 'tricked by a flat-ear instead of following clan tradition'. They would think her naïve and pity her.

At least, my version of clan Lavellan would feel that way. What do y'all think?

I think if their clan is alive and in Wycome, I think they would be more open and accepting.  I think they would be taken aback by it, but of course your Lavellan would tell them why. For me, even with the breakup, I would still believe Solas.  He would have no reason to lie to you about what it means.  However,  headcanons gunna be what they gunna be.  I do agree with you though, I don't see them as being very angry.   Just confused and pitying. 

 

EDIT: A lot of Dalish clans also are accepting of city elves that try to join the fold, so I can't see them being so incensed by it.

[Avejajed]

Yogi Solas would like us to cultivate deep, abiding inner peace.

Spoiler

I am sure he'd share my intense love for child pose, because it's basically a small step from sleeping.

Basically I just choked on my sweet tart.

[Roxy]

...wait. There was drama??? Where was I?

 

 

I don't know from what I read a few pages back..sounds like it. I haven't read much on this thread the past couple of days.

[WildSky214]

I think if their clan is alive and in Wycome, I think they would be more open and accepting.  I think they would be taken aback by it, but of course your Lavellan would tell them why. For me, even with the breakup, I would still believe Solas.  He would have no reason to lie to you about what it means.  However,  headcanons gunna be what they gunna be.  I do agree with you though, I don't see them as being very angry.   Just confused and pitying. 
 
EDIT: A lot of Dalish clans also are accepting of city elves that try to join the fold, so I can't see them being so incensed by it.

Well, I headcannon that at some point she would go to her clan and try to tell them the truth, because that's just who she is, and them rejecting it as ridiculous.

[RogueBait]

Basically I just choked on my sweet tart.

 

Because it's not the Solas fan-art we need, but the Solas fan art we deserve.

[Avejajed]

Well, I headcannon that at some point she would go to her clan and try to tell them the truth, because that's just who she is, and them rejecting it as ridiculous.

I would too but my clan is DED.

[drake2511]

All right, let me run something by y'all. I've noticed that a lot of people who's chosen the removal of vallaslin route say that their clan would reject them because of it. I find this surprising because as stuck up as the Dalish are, I wouldn't see them being angry about that, more so disappointed in that Lavellan that she would be 'tricked by a flat-ear instead of following clan tradition'. They would think her naïve and pity her.

At least, my version of clan Lavellan would feel that way. What do y'all think?

 

In my headcanon the Keeper would understand, but many others wouldn't. No one wanted Ainur'Len as the next Kepper, she was too clumsy and her magic talent showed up late. :/ The Keeper knew she had potential, she could feel her affinity with magic. If Lavellan had stayed with her clan, maybe the other members would have learned to like her, who knows.

[Rabbitonfire]

The warning was specifically issued as "Spamming in Profile." I was informed that the post containing the art was removed for "non-constructive/Trolling content." Which... it wasn't. It was art. Which means someone specifically flagged the post, not a moderator.

Huh. I'm surprised. Sounds personally like for disagreeing opinion, are a troll. And the one on cullen wasn't deleyed. do moderates not pay attention to context or they accept any report?

If only I wasn't a slow drawer, all of you would experience horrors again.

[Uirebhiril]

All right, let me run something by y'all. I've noticed that a lot of people who's chosen the removal of vallaslin route say that their clan would reject them because of it. I find this surprising because as stuck up as the Dalish are, I wouldn't see them being angry about that, more so disappointed in that Lavellan that she would be 'tricked by a flat-ear instead of following clan tradition'. They would think her naïve and pity her.

At least, my version of clan Lavellan would feel that way. What do y'all think?

 

Since they've been sort of portrayed as being more open and progressive than other Dalish clans seem to be, I don't see them outright rejecting Lavellan over it. There may be surprise, shock, even fear and some uncertainty that makes things uncomfortable, but outright rejecting? Nah.

 

Whether Lavellan feels she can go home after that, or would feel comfortable doing so after everything, is another matter entirely.

[WildSky214]

I would too but my clan is DED.

I guess you should have cheated like me.

[Elven_Glory]

All right, let me run something by y'all. I've noticed that a lot of people who's chosen the removal of vallaslin route say that their clan would reject them because of it. I find this surprising because as stuck up as the Dalish are, I wouldn't see them being angry about that, more so disappointed in that Lavellan that she would be 'tricked by a flat-ear instead of following clan tradition'. They would think her naïve and pity her.

At least, my version of clan Lavellan would feel that way. What do y'all think?

I think the clan would be taken aback, for certain, but I don't think they would outright reject her as a result. In my canon for my Lavellan, her keeper and her brother for sure would understand why she might have made the choice to get it removed. (She does choose to keep it, however, had she not, they, knowing her history better than anyone, would not have been surprised). But to each his own, and it is a good plot device to keep her as part of the inquisition in giving her an explanation as to why she can never return home.

[Colonelkillabee]

Harsh? Hatred? Haha, not quite. but if that's how you wanna interpret it, go ahead.

I just feel there's no part in the DA universe where some people, as a culture, have no gods at all, or are not gnostic in any way. Everybody HAS to believe in something, whatever that might be.

I think DA should to have a race/culture that goes against that. It sometimes all feels like whether it be Andraste, the Maker, the elven gods, the Qun, or Tevinter gods, you HAVE to believe in something. Maybe the Dwarves are the closest to that, I guess, though I don't know their lore as much, but it feels they're still kind of gnostic in a way.

But you're right, I'm still discovering a lot (even though I spoiled myself a lot because I read way too much and don't care about spoiling myself either).

It is not so much aversion than a "it'll be great to witness it/initiate it" moment, on an anthropological and social level. But again, feel free to interpret is as you wish.

 

The Qun is that a way, you're free to remain there.

 

Joking aside, I really don't get this mentality of glee for finding that there is no god, if that were actually true... in a fictional setting. Fictional or not actually, it's kind of.... petty. Not even kind of, it's really petty and comes off very small of you. Everyone has their beliefs, no one knows diddly about even a few percentages of this universe, much less beyond that. I take no solace in proving anyone wrong, I just want to know period.

[Rabbitonfire]

Yogi Solas would like us to cultivate deep, abiding inner peace.
 

Spoiler

 
I am sure he'd share my intense love for child pose, because it's basically a small step from sleeping.

that pose looks almost like the safety earthquake pose I grew up knowing.

[Mims]

oh, I was looking at MPAA rating as an example. it's weird how this thread changed my idea of nsfw, I always thought just showing genitals and female boobs was nsfw. Now showing any part of a torso is nsfw. heck, show bathing suit nudity and someone is upset. Someone is against belly buttons, like woah.

 

If torso posts are getting flagged, you could probably make a case that someone is wasting moderator time by continually hitting the report button. Just copy down any automated warnings and such. 

 

 

At least, my version of clan Lavellan would feel that way. What do y'all think?

 

They might be a bit spooked, to be honest. It seems like the spell Solas used to remove the vallaslin is not routinely used or even heard of. Most of the characters who do talk about the removed vallaslin react in surprise. Cassandra says something like, "I thought they were permanent." 

 

As superstitious as the Dalish can be, they may find it extremely hard to accept the tattoos just vanishing, along with this mysterious mark on the Inquisitor's hand. That, coupled with being known as the Herald of Andraste, could indicate to the Dalish that you've forsaken your gods and your clan. 

[Rabbitonfire]

I would too but my clan is DED.

Scout: "Hey inquisitor, are you going to spend the holidays with your famil-"*slap*

Inquisitor:"My clan is deeeeeaaaaddd!"

[Delphine]

Hm~ I feel like that is more a result of the "time period" they exist in - I'm assuming agnostics/atheists do exist, but there is no such thing as an agnostic/atheist culture because during that time (pre-Enlightenment) there hasn't ever truly been the level of scientific thought/study that is requisite for an agnostic culture to form. People are still too superstitious with too much of the natural world left unexplained to be able to embrace agnosticism/atheism on a wide scale.
 
It's probably also a little different in a world where ultra-powerful beings actually walked the lands in relatively recent history and concepts like magic, which are much harder to explain through science, exist. Rather than saying everyone in Thedas believe in a God/gods, it's probably more accurate to say that people in Thedas all believe in the power certain beings can hold over their lives - the elven pantheon/Old Gods may not be God/gods in the same way the Maker is a God, but they are "deities" all the same, because they possess a significantly higher level of power which allows them to unduly influence the existence of "lower beings." (Basically there's probably a difference between a god and a Creator - it may not be the case that everybody in Thedas believes in a Creator) Also, the Qun is more akin to Asiatic religions insofar as it is closer to philosophy/thought than a form/system of worship, so I wouldn't say that the Qunari worship a deity at all. They simply subscribeto a philosophy/thought/way of life. 
 
/Edit Just from an anthropological/sociological perspective, I think it's important for us to remember that "religion" as many people in the West define it doesn't apply to all religion and is a strictly Judeo-Christian perspective on the issue. In fact, the Chinese word for "religion" is "Zong Jiao" and literally translates to "Teachings of the Ancestors" - something which removes the necessity of a deity from the idea of a religion. For example, Confucianism is notoriously agnostic. While Confucianism does point to an ideal past that has been lost and cannot be recovered as well as the existence of ancient sages (not gods/deities/superpowered people, but extra-moral/wise humans who may or may not have been different in terms of life span/ability than modern humanity) from whom modern humanity should derive our morals/learn, it explicitly refuses to discuss questions of "strange powers and undefined gods/spirits."

 
Even though I agree partially with your post, I'd like to point out that there is no need for technology, science or enlightenment to have people gather and think about the world as a godless one. Back when the Greek ruled the world, Sophists used to re-question all of that, and adopt a certain form of atheism. And they were far from being the only one trying to. But I believe History is always rewritten by the winners, and all of those nuanced school of thoughts get lost in them.
 

Joking aside, I really don't get this mentality of glee for finding that there is no god, if that were actually true... in a fictional setting. Fictional or not actually, it's kind of.... petty. Not even kind of, it's really petty and comes off very small of you. Everyone has their beliefs, no one knows diddly about even a few percentages of this universe, much less beyond that. I take no solace in proving anyone wrong, I just want to know period.

 

I personally am agnostic, so I live in a world where not knowing is just fine. I don't know if there's a god, and I don't know if there's no god, but more often than not, I noticed I'm more personally bugged, by people wanting to shove their theist beliefs down my throat. Probably because they are in a position of majority in this world and feel entitled and righteous in doing so, but it irks me beyond belief. It's probably a knee-jerk reaction, indeed, but it would be such an entertaining one.

[Suketchi]

It's sooo much work on my phone though!

 

Aww. No more Daniel Gillies?