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[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Caddius]

No it isn't. Vader, Vater, pater, padre, father... Nope.

 

I'm sure you'll agree that with SW George Lucas set out to write a primal story arc... The Dark Father, whether intentionally or subconsciously, named just fits right in there, Freud would say there is no such thing as coincidence... 

And I would say to Freud that the field of psychology has, largely, rejected him as an embarrassment to their profession. (But I get that you're referring to Freudian literary/art critique.

Lucas definitely wanted Star Wars to be his own stab at Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces, I think it was called. And I recall a specific article about, "Well, we changed a lot of the names. Darth Vader was originally a bit character, but come on, the name's great. So when we had the cool villain, we named him Darth Vader."

Which is a fairly accurate representation of naming things, combined with Gaider and Weekes' recent tweets. 

For me, I was fairly deep into things when I realized that I'd named everything and everyone Adrian.

1060VD: The Kingdom of Adrian suffers a setback in its crusade against the Adrianic heathens of Adrianople by King Adrian choked to death on a particularly large pickle. Adrian XVII succeeded his father. Adrianist Adrian of Adrianople sent him a mocking telegram.

Or something along those lines. 

This is, of course, due to my subconscious resentment of naming me improperly, so that my werewolf name would be Scarlet Temptress, when I am also sadly not a redhead.

[Caddius]

That moment when a Krem is female thread turns out to be by a non-troll that's genuinely curious and is happy to get more information gets hit with an actual troll.

*sighs*

And everything was going so well.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[lynroy]

That moment when a Krem is female thread turns out to be by a non-troll that's genuinely curious and is happy to get more information gets hit with an actual troll.
*sighs*
And everything was going so well.

Yes, I was pleasantly surprised. And then that guy showed up. Some people's kids. *facepalm*

[Siha]

1/ To much your surprise, I know religious people as well. I've been raised surrounded by such people.

<snip about challenging beliefs>

The vision you described is definitely your interpretation only, but if you need it to make me a villain lacking nuance and empathy, go ahead.

 

2/ I have never denied I don't know everything there is to know about DA:O and DA2 at the moment, but like I said before, I read a big deal about it, and I've talked at length about it with my boyfriend who played them both several times, expansions & DLC included. It gets me a rough idea of how things are in the DA lore, but granted, one that will probably change when I'll finish these particular playthoughs. My opinion is most definitely incomplete, but nowhere have I said it's a definitive one. In a sense, you could also say people who haven't read all DA books and played all DLC/side games have an incomplete opinion as well.

 

And please, don't act as if I  <snip> let me tell you right here : I don't fit in your box.

 

And like I said to Colonel, I can't deny the cynicism and arrogance in myself, even though I work towards reducing their existence, I won't make the intellectual insult to anyone, and much less myself, to pretend otherwise. Feel free to judge, or dislike it, but know that I won't take offense about it, and that I'll be open to talk about it, if it still upsets you.

 

1) I would have been rather surprised if you had grown up in an atheistic bubble, tbh.

I understand that bit about challenging beliefs, but I do not think BW can provide that. After all, the only thing they could do is one cutscene with sad people and a grinning protagonist, fade to black, and back to business. It's also pretty difficult to get into this, not only for offending people but also because this is an inherent problem with "what if"; you only really know "what" when "if" happens. BW could present some scenery for the what-if setting but it might be completely off, very unrealistic, never happen like this in real life. Impossible to deduce anything from what a set of writers make up.

Also, from my personal experience, people will not suddenly introspect or question themselves when something bad happens to them. Education is not so easy, unfortunately.

About the villain I fear you give me too much credit. I really don't make you out to be anything. And besides, schadenfreude is not exactly one of the most significant traits of a good villain. Usually those guys end up a footnote while the big boys keep playing.

 

2) You should make your own picture of the lore and universe. I have encountered many people in the game who were agonistic or doubted religion. It's just not right that "everybody must believe in something". Maybe your boyfriend got another impression. You must play and make up your mind, then judge. If your judgement will be the same then still, that's fine. And sure I have an incomplete view, but I have seen enough to know that not everybody in Thedas is religious, and that's what I spoke about.

 

Moreover, I do not have a box, I fear. I am fairly certain that what you show here is not your real world self anyway. You tend to make harsh/strong statements in order to gain attention. Nothing gained if you don't ruffle a few feathers; I understand and basically agree. So with a lot of things you say my impression is that you exaggerate on purpose to gain spotlight, instead of stating your complete and thought-through opinion. I might be wrong, of course. But I don't actually care to classify you, or anybody here. Some people I disagree with often, others I usually agree with. Same is true for you. That does not mean, however, that it is a classification or that everything out of order is bad. Like I said about the art issue before: not everybody likes it but that's okay. Everybody should be able so have an opinion, but this applies to both ways in a debate. I do think that some things you say are over the top and I take the liberty of expressing this, just like you expressed them in the first place. In general you seem to be a considerate person, so it crosses me when you judge something without knowing the underlying situation. If you came off more stupid I would not care and just dismiss it.

 

If you want to see this as a label I'm putting on you, that you are "special" in whatever regard (horrible, villain etc.), you are free to do so. But for this label to be "true", that would take a bit longer to achieve. Avejajed and me had been on the fence for weeks without me classifying her yet, you can't get me there in a few days only.

If you don't take offense, though, that is something I highly respect.

 

 

I forgot the rules, again, damn. On-topic: Solas cares little for people in general and has very strong opinions about most things. I think he would disapprove of schadenfreude, though.

[Caddius]

The Hero with a Thousand Faces is legitimately one of the most important works of comparative literary analysis and narrative structure ever written. Joseph Campbell was a genius. He also wrote several other books which expand upon world mythology. The first a four book series called The Masks of God, and another a work he died prior to finishing called the Historical Atlas of World Mythology. He got through the first book on animal totems/ shamanistic practice and only 3/5th of the way through the second volume.

If you (and by that I mean literally anyone reading this post, not Caddius as I'm PRETTY sure he's read or is aware of Campbell's monomyth etc.) are really interested in storytelling, writing, narrative parallel, myths, or theory crafting... Totally take a look at his stuff.

But returning to a more fascinating concept.. Caddius, I'm not sure your werewolf name is about your hair color.

I haven't found an actual copy of his work.

Just a lot of articles and essays about it and using it as a reference. 

 

Scarlet:

Is...is it a reference to my political allegiances?  How did my parents know I would grow up to become a Communist Gryffindor Shameless House Plantagenet Supporter?!

I will not comment on the Temptress part. 

[Siha]

And I would say to Freud that the field of psychology has, largely, rejected him as an embarrassment to their profession.

 

That's not actually true though...

 

That moment when a Krem is female thread turns out to be by a non-troll that's genuinely curious and is happy to get more information gets hit with an actual troll.

*sighs*

And everything was going so well.

 

More context please. Please don't say the Krem appreciation thread was hit?

[EnaShepard]

Question time: How did your Lavellan react to meeting Mythal/Flemeth in person, after the Temple? If she believed in the gods, was your Lavellan's faith renewed (omg, a god, she's real!!!!!) or shaken (we pray to her everyday- she could have helped us all this time????) by that experience? Did it have an impact on her choice to keep/remove her vallaslin (be it Mythal's or another god's)?

[CapricornSun]

HAH! Ruby Rhoooood! I forgot how much I love that man who doesn't want one position but ALL positions!

Ruby Rhod = best character in the The Fifth Element

Now I want a Ruby Rhod-like elvhen god to be a thing. xD

[Maria13]

And I would say to Freud that the field of psychology has, largely, rejected him as an embarrassment to their profession. (But I get that you're referring to Freudian literary/art critique.

Lucas definitely wanted Star Wars to be his own stab at Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces, I think it was called. And I recall a specific article about, "Well, we changed a lot of the names. Darth Vader was originally a bit character, but come on, the name's great. So when we had the cool villain, we named him Darth Vader."

Which is a fairly accurate representation of naming things, combined with Gaider and Weekes' recent tweets. 

For me, I was fairly deep into things when I realized that I'd named everything and everyone Adrian.

1060VD: The Kingdom of Adrian suffers a setback in its crusade against the Adrianic heathens of Adrianople by King Adrian choked to death on a particularly large pickle. Adrian XVII succeeded his father. Adrianist Adrian of Adrianople sent him a mocking telegram.

Or something along those lines. 

This is, of course, due to my subconscious resentment of naming me improperly, so that my werewolf name would be Scarlet Temptress, when I am also sadly not a redhead.

 

So the father of the original hero just happens to be called "Father" uh, pull the other one. 

 

Yes, and I know psychoanalysis as a system has been somewhat discredited but it is still studied, and was studied in American film schools in California, dude!...

 

From Alpha Temptress to Scarlet Temptress... Knuckle down... 

[Caddius]

That's not actually true though...

 

 

More context please. Please don't say the Krem appreciation thread was hit?

It's not? Please elaborate. I've always been given the impression that, while important as helping kick-start modern psychology, many of his many theories have been found to be lacking. But I'm far, far away from a student of psychology. 

No, not the Smooth Kreminals. At least, not that I'm aware of.

It was a thread started by someone who thought that Krem was a woman that pretended to be a man to get in the army, and kept the practice up for convenience's sake in the Chargers. A few people cleared it up for him, and he seemed happy to have it explained.

And a few minutes ago, someone charged in declaring that we shouldn't let Krem just identify as a male and that's a dangerous line of thinking, whining when people criticize him, while still not offering any further elaboration. 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

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[Colonelkillabee]

1/ To much your surprise, I know religious people as well. I've been raised surrounded by such people. And I love them with all my heart. Though, still wondering how they'll fare in the face of such news...

I think you'd do well to consider how you and others would react to such news of a god or gods being real, rather than thinking of others as these poor sods whose entire reality could be shattered to bits if they ever "looked up" so to speak.

[Kappa Neko]

I'm agnostic myself. I used to despise religion with a passion for all the wars and pointless deaths over whose god is better even though it's all the same thing. It's incredibly stupid to me. I still strongly dislike institutionalized religion for their abuse of power.

However, I envy people who believe in something. I don't believe in a god, I can't. But I want to believe *insert X Files poster for comic relief*. It's not a good way to live life. Spirituality of some kind is important for our emotional wellbeing, I believe. We all want to feel connected to something bigger. Some people join radical groups to emulate this sense of belonging. To feel a sense of purpose.

 

What would happen if religion was taken away from people? I think the world would descend into chaos. People would be even more lost than they already are. Murder would soar. I used to think we don't need religion to tell us how to be good people. To me it seems obvious what is right and what is wrong. But that's just my personal moral code. To somebody else it's morally right to kill people who insult them.

Religion offers guidance to people. Not everyone is held back from harming others because of their conscience. We have laws to enforce a society's morality. But to some people religion is just as valid a set of rules. Religion was probably the first law mankind had. To some people it's still the only valid authority.

 

Take away religion and people lose all hope. And usually when people lose hope they lose all decency. Sad, but true imo. I don't want to imagine a world where people no longer fear the wrath of god for killing people. It's a nice ideal, thinking people are all so self-reflective and educated and tolerant enough to live peacefully and find meaning in life without god. That's assuming morality is universally the same, which is not the case. So whose rules should we follow? It's not like atheists are all the same, either.

 

The way I see it, we'd gain nothing from proving there is no god or a cosmic order of some kind. I couldn't think of anything more awful. I agree that it's important to reflect and not blindly follow any belief/group. But shatter people's world view completely and you don't know how they'll react. It's dangerous.

 

That's all I have to say about it from my point of view. I'll come back when the bickering is done...

 

Totally on topic:

[Siha]

It's not? Please elaborate. I've always been given the impression that, while important as helping kick-start modern psychology, many of his many theories have been found to be lacking. But I'm far, far away from a student of psychology. 

 

There is not much to elaborate. The problem about his theories is that you cannot prove or falsify them. We know they apply, but we cannot explain why that is so. That makes it so hard. He cannot be dismissed, disregarded, and only laughed at. His methods were highly dubious, he was a cocaine addict with family issues, his test subjects were mainly white middle-aged women from the higher ranks of society, his approaches bare little formal value. Despite all that his results are confirmed over and over again. While people laugh at him, he is highly relevant. Everybody knows him, his theories are central to every fundamental/basic psychological education, and his very original approach of psychoanalysis as a treatment method is still the most successful treatment we know in the cases where it can be applied. 

Basically, Freud probably was not a scientist but a brilliant mind with a very high EQ who was able to formulate a self-descriptive if not falsifiable theory around particular psychological problems.

 

Thanks about the info regarding the Krem thread. 

[Caddius]

I think you'd do well to consider how you and others would react to such news of a god or gods being real, rather than thinking of others as these poor sods whose entire reality could be shattered to bits if they ever "looked up" so to speak.

Much like stories of the faithful (kind of like Cassandra's crisis of doubt throughout Inquisition) being confronted with the absence of their gods, I find the idea of agnostics and atheists such as myself confronting the existence of such just as compelling.

Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle's Inferno is a particularly irreverent take on the subject. 

Long story short, a science-fiction writer, jealous of Isaac Asimov, tries to get attention and ends up falling into a pool and dies. He wakes up in Hell. He goes through a parody of Dante's own trip, and every step of the way, the man draws on his own experience and tries to find more evidence for his theory that it's all just an amusement park designed by aliens to demonstrate human religion. Slowly, his ideas for crazy scientific knowledge start to dry out as he gets deeper in, and Hell starts smugly breaking Newton's laws in front of him. 

[Rabbitonfire]

Technically speaking it would be dependent on the rules applicable to the workplace where the person viewing the content is based... Not helpful for posters I know, but if anyone here has any doubts... You need to look up your workplace rules!

 

But here are the site rules: http://forum.bioware...c/3-site-rules/

• Accusing Others of Trolling: Calling someone a troll to incite someone or falsely accusing them of trolling can also be a form of trolling.

Too bad it's anonymous because the snitch did falsely accuse report trolling without confrontation. Sorry I have to bring it up again, it's still pissing me off that someone would do that.

[Avejajed]

snippppp

How do you classify me now? Cuz I classify you as bff.

[Caddius]

There is not much to elaborate. The problem about his theories is that you cannot prove or falsify them. We know they apply, but we cannot explain why that is so. That makes it so hard. He cannot be dismissed, disregarded, and only laughed at. His methods were highly dubious, he was a cocaine addict with family issues, his test subjects were mainly white middle-aged women from the higher ranks of society, his approaches bare little formal value. Despite all that his results are confirmed over and over again. While people laugh at him, he is highly relevant. Everybody knows him, his theories are central to every fundamental/basic psychological education, and his very original approach of psychoanalysis as a treatment method is still the most successful treatment we know in the cases where it can be applied. 

Basically, Freud probably was not a scientist but a brilliant mind with a very high EQ who was able to formulate a self-descriptive if not falsifiable theory around particular psychological problems.

 

Thanks about the info regarding the Krem thread. 

I see. Thank you.

The few things I've read on it mostly dwelt on his methodology rather than his theories, which I'll admit I don't remember as well as I should.

I can definitely empathize with the 'not being able to prove or falsify' theories, part.

*glowers at history and pre-history of humanity*

I just want a definitive answer: Were the Huns Turkic, Mongolian, Germanic, related to the White Huns, Xiongnu, or WHAT? JUST TELL ME! WE MUST PUT AN END TO THE TURKEY-HUNGARY YOUTUBE WARS OF 2015! (The Mongols are pretty chill about it, in my experience.)

[Vorathrad]

Actually yes, as far as I know from my bf being a psychology graduate, Freud's theories are largely dismissed by modern therapies, even if his work as a pioneer is of course acknowledged. I guess this is different in countries with a strong psychoanalytic tradition such as the States or Argentina. 

 

Liz thank you for mentioning Joseph Campbell, I'll try to read his works as soon as I can (lots of books still waiting on the shelf since Christmas) But literary criticism, and I assume film criticism as well, has been employing other approaches for years. That may be, again, because I studied literary criticism in a Spanish university; but psychoanalytic analysis was never given much importance.

 

I guess some interesting things may be concluded by analysing things from a psychoanalytic pov, but I personally dislike it and generally don't find its conclusions interesting. Just my opinion though, feel free to continue Freuding and Junging things

 

Honestly, rather than knowing whether or not the Maker exists or what the Maker even is, I'm much more interested in ideas like the Qun - moral codes/"religions" that the people of Thedas develop organically that involve an interest in their own existence/the meaning of their own existence rather than the intentions of some higher being. 

 

I am as well. That is one thing I find fascinating about the Qun, but I could never put it into words until I read yours. It's very interesting how in contrast to the religious despair of the rest of Thedas, who are constantly addressing deities that don't answer (the elves, the Chantry, even Corychauffeur), the Qun finds meaning in the role one fulfills within society. I think it's a frame of mind that the Western audience of Bioware is not used to and I love that there is an ingame civilization devoted to it.

 

Edit: argh ToP I'm terrible at Solas pics posting. I found this on tumblr

 

Spoiler

 

 

source

 

[Illyria]

That moment when a Krem is female thread turns out to be by a non-troll that's genuinely curious and is happy to get more information gets hit with an actual troll.

*sighs*

And everything was going so well.

 

I was really impressed when I saw that topic wasn't a troll topic, and that the OP seemed interested in educating themselves.

 

But urgh.  That guy.