One of my biggest issues with Merrill is I don't buy her "Oh I have such a strong will" after her naivety displays. In general, I strongly dislike these nice-girl-next-door-turns-badass stories that Bioware writers seem to be so fond of (I also have the Hate Writers Pet Curse)
But it's interesting that Merrill and Solas biggest sin is one and the same: pride.
I don't see it as naive or foolish to try to bring an end to the plight of the People.
Whether or not Hawke is a mage, the Champion of Kirkwall has still defeated spirits and abominations. It's no different than Merrill bringing up how, if a mage becomes possessed, the clan hunts down and kills the abomination; it's not a task that can only be accomplished by another mage.
Spirits and abominations have been defeated before; it isn't foolish to think that they can be defeated. There's also no evidence that Audacity would have ever escaped through the Eluvian, particularly as the spirit was trapped in the real world, and hadn't been in the Fade for over two millennium.
Merrill spoke to a spirit who was summoned and trapped in a totem over two thousand years ago, when the ancient elves fought Tevinter humans at Sundermount; speaking to an impotent spirit doesn't make her foolish.
No offense, but it's easier to discuss when your comments aren't all separating everything I'm saying are all together.
Anyway, the fool with good intentions hardly seems foolish. In Supernatural, Sam drinks demon blood and trusts a demon to help prevent the apocalypse, and he ends up starting it. Love that show, lol. Stating the intent doesn't excuse the foolish means one used to reach the goal.
We're just going to keep going around and around in circles. Hawke is a man. Men make mistakes (or woman, whatever). Stating that they managed to kill demons before doesn't make it adequate. Like I said, you can drive with only your feet, doesn't mean its to be done. Michel killed someone with a blanket. I'm pretty sure he's not going to make that his weapon of choice. And that's all I have to say on it. Merrill was an amateur fire spitter who read up on it on google. Eventually her luck will run out.
I'm not even so sure I think Merrill is all that naive. I think she just has her opinion and stands by it. She considers other opinions, but she just dismisses them if she feels she knows better. She is aware what others think of her use of blood magic, she just thinks she can handle it. And as far as the game goes she is not proved wrong. People always interfered without waiting what the results of her actions would actually be.
This can be called naive. But if somebody "stronger" acts the same way it's usually just called "stubborn" -- or simply "strong".
I can usually tell exactly when I'm about to do something really stupid. Doesn't stop me though.
But I'm not the ooonly oooone
Merrill just bugged me because of the dippy, child-in-a-woman's body trope they decided to use for her. Her and Sera. We really need an Isseya next time, if we get another elf female companion.
This. A lotz.
No offense, but it's easier to discuss when your comments aren't all separating everything I'm saying are all together.
Anyway, the fool with good intentions hardly seems foolish. In Supernatural, Sam drinks demon blood and trusts a demon to help prevent the apocalypse, and he ends up starting it. Love that show, lol. Stating the intent doesn't excuse the foolish means one used to reach the goal.
We're just going to keep going around and around in circles. Hawke is a man. Man make mistakes (or woman, whatever). Stating that they managed to kill demons before doesn't make it adequate. Like I said, you can drive with only your feet, doesn't mean its to be done. Michel killed someone with a blanket. I'm pretty sure he's not going to make that his weapon of choice. And that's all I have to say on it. Merrill was an amateur fire spitter who read up on it on google. Eventually her luck will run out.
Considering that Merrill was simply planning on speaking to Audacity (if the spirit was still trapped in the totem), I don't see what was foolish about it. She was constructing her Eluvian from lore she studied and information she extrapolated from the shard; she ran into an issue since the Eluvian remained inert, but she had no intention of releasing Audacity from the totem, and she explicitly says as much to an aggressive Hawke.
Merrill's culture shock didn't inhibit her ability to discern whether or not Keran was possessed, the nature of the Profane Abomination or Torpor, or her adept handling of magic and blood magic for several years. She has difficulty with human culture; that doesn't reflect her capability in other areas.
It's also a moot point since Merrill moves on from this, since she is taking care of the elves who have no one else during the crisis with the Breach rather than working on the construction of her Eluvian.
I'm not even so sure I think Merrill is all that naive. I think she just has her opinion and stands by it. She considers other opinions, but she just dismisses them if she feels she knows better. She is aware what others think of her use of blood magic, she just thinks she can handle it. And as far as the game goes she is not proved wrong. People always interfered without waiting what the results of her actions would actually be.
This can be called naive. But if somebody "stronger" acts the same way it's usually just called "stubborn" -- or simply "strong".
It is usually, but not to me. Being stubborn is what makes someone naive a lot of the time. I know that especially because I was always stubborn, and it made me do stupid things I thought I could handle, half the time because I was told not to...
I'm not even so sure I think Merrill is all that naive. I think she just has her opinion and stands by it. She considers other opinions, but she just dismisses them if she feels she knows better. She is aware what others think of her use of blood magic, she just thinks she can handle it. And as far as the game goes she is not proved wrong. People always interfered without waiting what the results of her actions would actually be.
Like when Anders tells her that she's wrong for not sharing his cultural and religious views on Spirits and Demons (since he believes they are the First Children of the Maker and those who turned their backs on the Maker to embody different "sins"), Merrill doesn't capitulate.
This can be called naive. But if somebody "stronger" acts the same way it's usually just called "stubborn" -- or simply "strong".
There is a double standard when it comes to Merrill and other people who have taken action that can be considered dangerous, like Hawke leading an expedition of people into the Deep Roads because it might lead to money. Or how some vilify Merrill because she doesn't acquiesce to a human who tells her she's wrong about a culture and technology that the human knows absolutely nothing about.
It is usually, but not to me. Being stubborn is what makes someone naive a lot of the time. I know that especially because I was always stubborn, and it made me do stupid things I thought I could handle, half the time because I was told not to...
As it is, we don't know if she could handle it. That's why I said people always interfered before Merrill's actions actually had implications. And BW shows us more and more not to classify blood magic quite so easily yet. Maybe Merrill's approach is not so wrong all together.
I think she is too often mistaken for a weak character, which she isn't. When she destroys the barrier up on Sundermount and you complain about her use of blood magic, she will simply say "It got the job done, didn't it?". I found that rather strong. She just doesn't care what you think, she's her own girl. Whatever I might think of blood magic in general (and I am not yet sure), I can't help respect that.
...Merrill doesn't capitulate.
...a human who tells her she's wrong about a culture and technology that the human knows absolutely nothing about.
I'll just assume you mean to support me?
I think it's very much what you say. First we were shown how blood magic is evil and how it leads to possession and death. But more and more I doubt that notion. Kitchen knifes are evil by that standard. Hell, even some medicine is evil then, or electricity, or sugar because it can destroy your teeth and make you fat. In the end, blood magic is a tool. And it's as Dorian (or was it Solas?) says: what's it to others if you use your own blood? A tool is not inherently evil, it all depends on how you use it.
So is Merrill so wrong about considering it? If Super Soldier 527 in game Save-The-World Vol. 47 takes up guns and shots your local dictator to end his atrocities he's a hero.
I really don't feel comfortable judging what I barely understand.
As it is, we don't know if she could handle it. That's why I said people always interfered before Merrill's actions actually had implications. And BW shows us more and more not to classify blood magic quite so easily yet. Maybe Merrill's approach is not so wrong all together.
I think she is too often mistaken for a weak character, which she isn't. When she destroys the barrier up on Sundermount and you complain about her use of blood magic, she will simply say "It got the job done, didn't it?". I found that rather strong. She just doesn't care what you think, she's her own girl. Whatever I might think of blood magic in general (and I am not yet sure), I can't help respect that.
Yes, but she's shown to be very strong in some scenes and in some other instances extremely naive, bordering on stupid. That's what I didn't like; it seems like writers sometimes feel the need to tone down strong female characters with naivety and delicate flower behaviour. There is a middle point between the woman-child and the ultimate badass, but BW seems not to have found it yet (even if I love most of their characters, don't think I'm a hater)
what change?
Change? He changed all right. Changed into a corporate drone with a failing marriage and a stagnating career in HR. His last bit a joy stemming from the memory of a summer long ago; the memory of Deidre and the way she whispered "Steve" into his ear as they laid naked under the stars.
Good morning Solas thread. How will you emotionally devastate me today?
Buenas tardes. We took a little detour into discussion about another elf. Maybe we could discuss whether or not Solas' views on the Qunari influenced people to side against the Qunari alliance and save the Chargers during Iron Bull's personal quest, which does involve some emotional devastation either way?
I saw! I never finished DA2, so I don't have major opinions on Merrill either way. I can recall finding her personality kind of irksome, but that was just a ... personal thing, I guess? I'm trying to play DA2 now and finish it, so maybe I'll have more to contribute at a later date.
As for the Chargers- I saved them. I don't think Solas had much to do with that- my character was friends with Iron Bull, and I know how much the Chargers meant to him. They were his family. It just felt /wrong/ to not save them. Besides, I knew their names, had little glimpses of their personality. I couldn't do that to them. 
As it is, we don't know if she could handle it. That's why I said people always interfered before Merrill's actions actually had implications. And BW shows us more and more not to classify blood magic quite so easily yet. Maybe Merrill's approach is not so wrong all together.
I think she is too often mistaken for a weak character, which she isn't. When she destroys the barrier up on Sundermount and you complain about her use of blood magic, she will simply say "It got the job done, didn't it?". I found that rather strong. She just doesn't care what you think, she's her own girl. Whatever I might think of blood magic in general (and I am not yet sure), I can't help respect that.
I think that mission in the alienage when you go into the fade shows it clear that she's not strong willed enough to be trafficing with demons, but that's just me. It's not the blood magic itself, but how it is obtained and what it leads to. "Oh well this demon interaction went fine, so maybe I could do it a little more. I'm careful, I'll be okay."
I respect people for believing in themselves just fine, but people fumbling in the dark ignorantly is never a good thing in my book.
Yes, but she's shown to be very strong in some scenes and in some other instances extremely naive, bordering on stupid. That's what I didn't like; it seems like writers sometimes feel the need to tone down strong female characters with naivety and delicate flower behaviour. There is a middle point between the woman-child and the ultimate badass, but BW seems not to have found it yet (even if I love most of their characters, don't think I'm a hater)
I think Cassandra was pretty well-drawn. It's probably much more prevelant in the romance - but there is a certain vulnerability to her but she manages to hold pretty fast to her beliefs without coming off as a total zealot. I think it helps if you have her around Solas though, since he makes her question them a bit and softens the harder edges of her faith.
I agree with Addai, the naivete was bad with her to the point - for me - that the idea of romancing her was totally off-putting. She made it very hard for me to sympathize with her or want to help her.
Yes, but she's shown to be very strong in some scenes and in some other instances extremely naive, bordering on stupid. That's what I didn't like; it seems like writers sometimes feel the need to tone down strong female characters with naivety and delicate flower behaviour. There is a middle point between the woman-child and the ultimate badass, but BW seems not to have found it yet (even if I love most of their characters, don't think I'm a hater)
You are very right. (Please ignore that right is an absolute, like pregnant, and you can be no more "a little" right than "a little pregnant", I swear i actually know that!)
But since BW does not give us more fine grained characters I must roll with something and I decided to appreciate any strength in a woman they will give me and accept the rest as a minor flaw of character. And that she's naive about sex *shrugs* what the heck.
Buenas tardes. We took a little detour into discussion about another elf. Maybe we could discuss whether or not Solas' views on the Qunari influenced people to side against the Qunari alliance and save the Chargers during Iron Bull's personal quest, which does involve some emotional devastation either way?
I am all into that. But can we please not do that today? Because I must leave shortly. But I want to take part in that discussion. Because I'm all into that.
Yes, but she's shown to be very strong in some scenes and in some other instances extremely naive, bordering on stupid. That's what I didn't like; it seems like writers sometimes feel the need to tone down strong female characters with naivety and delicate flower behaviour. There is a middle point between the woman-child and the ultimate badass, but BW seems not to have found it yet (even if I love most of their characters, don't think I'm a hater)
Admittedly, there's inconsistent writing with some characters, and I concede that's true for Merrill. Look at Solas' dialogue to Cassandra where he seems to respect her, and then his dialogue towards a shemlen Inquisitor where he seems surprised about a good shemlen, or Sebastian coming across Clan Sabrae and expressing that he sees many souls awaiting "the Light" of the Chant, but then tells Merrill that perhaps the Dalish and Andrastian humans simply see the same divine force in different ways. It's even inconsistent in other ways, like how the writing for Isabela seemed to drift between respecting her sexual nature, and then mocking her for being sexual in other instances.
I think, if Merrill did appear again, that she wouldn't be the same young woman who was dealing with culture shock, since she's lived in a shemlen city for over a decade. I think that's meant to be reflected in Varric talking about how she's now leading the elves, almost as a de facto Keeper, and even protecting them from humans.
I saw! I never finished DA2, so I don't have major opinions on Merrill either way. I can recall finding her personality kind of irksome, but that was just a ... personal thing, I guess? I'm trying to play DA2 now and finish it, so maybe I'll have more to contribute at a later date.
As for the Chargers- I saved them. I don't think Solas had much to do with that- my character was friends with Iron Bull, and I know how much the Chargers meant to him. They were his family. It just felt /wrong/ to not save them. Besides, I knew their names, had little glimpses of their personality. I couldn't do that to them.
If Solas influences my decision to save the Charges at all, it's for that sweet-ass chess game he has with Bull for saving them. But there's a buttload of other reasons I save the Charges every time, the biggest being Krem (
!) and my complete lack of trust in anything to do with the Qunari. Bull's okay because he's never quite sure on the Qun, but when I think of Sten and how difficult he was to get along with, I shudder at what the rest could be like.
I love Krem too much, though. And I don't like the Qun very much, as well. Meh.
You guys need to go read this gem of an AU fic. Hilarious Lavellan/Fen'Harel goodness, nsfw in the later chapters. 
"Love Poultice no.9": http://archiveofouro...hapters/7318115
So I just had Origins crash on me as I was about to enter the Deep Roads, and I hadn't saved while exploring Orzimmar. ._.
THE GAME HAS SPOKEN! LET'S NOT DO THE CREEPY SAD BIT AND GO PLAY WITH THE ELVES AND THE SYLVANS, YAY!
Also TOP:
Spoiler
Also I just saw some Cullenmance gifs and I think I need to give it a go very soon. X_X
If Solas influences my decision to save the Charges at all, it's for that sweet-ass chess game he has with Bull for saving them. But there's a buttload of other reasons I save the Charges every time, the biggest being Krem (
What chess game? Party banter, right? Damn, I missed so much. I did have banter but not a lot...
Btw, I had no idea that Cullen plays chess with different people! He played chess with Dorian in my game. Mmmmmh.
What chess game? Party banter, right? Damn, I missed so much. I did have banter but not a lot...
Btw, I had no idea that Cullen plays chess with different people! He played chess with Dorian in my game. Mmmmmh.
This one:
What chess game? Party banter, right? Damn, I missed so much. I did have banter but not a lot...
Btw, I had no idea that Cullen plays chess with different people! He played chess with Dorian in my game. Mmmmmh.
Giving Bull a dinky sword and shield and running around the Emerald Graves, Emprise du Lion, and Forgotten (Forbidden?) Oasis was purely to listen to the chase game in all its gloriousness. It took so long because Bull kept insisting on chatting with Cole, and Solas just wanted to be snippy with Bull. In hindsight I'd get the part all convo'd out so once the personal quest was done, I'd have a better chance at getting the chess game quicker.
Does he? I only ever get him playing with Dorian too not like that I wonder if it only triggers if you don't recruit Dorian?
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