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[Armdin]

My head canon is that after the events, my Inquisitor begins to extensively explore the old elven ruins, searching both for signs of Solas and for further information about the true history of the elves, any remnants of what may be left. Perhaps she actually tracks down the Sentinel Elves- I can't see her leaving them in peace. She's rude like that. Hopefully, when we get that DLC (gotta stay positive), we're going to see a bit more of A. Abelas and Co B. Solas, and how he relates the world he fell asleep in to the world he's woken up in. 

 

I headcanon my Quizzy still being too busy to go off chasing after Solas (for now), as much as she'd like to, so she spends a lot of time sitting in Solas's chair (feet up, legs crossed), reading the books he ordered and staring intently at that last, unfinished panel, trying to figure it out. WHAT DOES IT MEAN, SOLASS!

[Elessara]

I suppose the transition would have had to be difficult to make Mythal so pissed off at her killer, she would NOT(edit sorry) have had to time to do the amulet/horcrux thing she did with Hawke at Sundermount thing with Flemeth. That wouldn't be clawing and crawling throught the ages would it?

I understand that there wasn't malicious intent in sealing people away, I mean to imply there was malicious intent for those he DID NOT seal away, or warn to sleep in uthenera(or however you spell it). Why would he leave so many people out? Let them rot away, and then just abandon as soon as he sees that they're suffering in the present day.

 

Why do you assume Fen'Harel has abandoned the elves?  

 

We don't *know* what he's doing.  Or why.  Or what he did in the past.  Or what he's going to do in the future. 

 

One of the things I focus on, is at the end where he's talking to Mythal, he says, "the People, they need me" ... he doesn't say "My people need me."  And, typically in the Dragon Age setting, when "the People" (capital P) are referenced, it's referring to the elves.

[ConcernedGeek]

Cole seems to have an interesting definition of the word "real" though.  When you talk to him about his past, he briefly talks about the events that happened in Asunder and how he went to Adamant with Rhys and Evangeline and they met a man there.  A demon touched the man's mind and made him real but he wasn't supposed to be real.  He was talking about the Tranquil who was cured of tranquility.  So apparently to Cole, Tranquil aren't "real".  I've always found that interesting.  So I've always puzzled over what Cole means by that line about the Inquisitor being "real".

That's really interesting. If we assume by real he means that there is a connection to the fade? But then that would mean that the dwarves aren't real? And that process of make the tranquil "real" makes them temporarily insane doesn't it! From the influx of sudden emotion right?

[Elessara]

But he never claims that they are his people, why not if he's the one who freed them? Does he not want to lower himself by saying that these elves are his people too?

I was really wondering about this mainly because at the end Fen'harel says to Mythal that the people need him

Which people? The Elvhen who he says are his people, or the people who are dying out in Thedas who are called elves?

 

Solas never actually says who he considers "his" people to be.  Mostly he comes off as conflicted about the modern elves.  He feels a connection to the elves (current elves) but doesn't have much in common with them.  When he's telling an elven inquisitor about the orb, he says that "it is ours" - that the orb is elven.  And then after Wicked Hearts he says he doesn't see himself as having much in common with them - although, I kind of wonder if he's talking about city elves or just elves in general.

[Giton]

In practice, the Qun is horrific.  After DA2 I was like - 'haha...worst place ever'.  As a philosophy, it's intriguing...to me at least.  Like I said, I think my Lavellan with all her hang-ups over 'wtf do i do with this thing' would have acknowledged that there is a comfort in their order.  Though at the end of the day she would know the sacrifice to get that, would not be worth it.  I don't fault Solas for his grumpiness at Bull over it at all BUT I still think he comes off as a bit of a dick.  This may go to my whole thing about Dorian's sincerity. Dorian is a slave apologist.  IB does find comfort in certain aspects of the Qun. Both were decent people though and wanted to be friends with Solas or try to talk to him. Solas was just...urgh about how he dealt with them.  Not an aspect of his personality I was very fond of. 

Yeah, he is a bit of a dick. There are aspects of the Qun's philosophy that are seductive. Certainly.

 

(Though because I am a garbage person, I was turned on by Solas's dickishness. I'm awful.)

 

Well regardless, at the end of the campaign Dorian and the Bull get theirs when they say "screw it" and take the Inquisitor to Rivain and have a month of '60's style, beach party, debauchery. #theygetaround

 

Spoiler

 

 

Meanwhile, someone is crying into their pillow. Vhenan!!!!!!:

 

 

 

It will be the lull before the storm that will be Falon's Din and the attendant sex-mayhem that will ensue.

[kalasaurus]

So, I heard some new dialogue from Solas.  It's nothing groundbreaking, but this is what Solas will say if Loghain is the Warden ally and found before asking about the Battle of Ostagar:

 

Solas:  That's just it.  In the Fade I see reflections created by spirits who react to the emotions of the warriors...

Lavellan:  And you can't tell which is real?

Solas:  Perhaps Loghain can tell you more.  Yet even that is just another perspective.

[Elessara]

That's really interesting. If we assume by real he means that there is a connection to the fade? But then that would mean that the dwarves aren't real? And that process of make the tranquil "real" makes them temporarily insane doesn't it! From the influx of sudden emotion right?

 

I'm not sure that's what Cole means when he says "real" though.  I think it's more nuanced than that.  There is something about the dwarves though - if you take Cole with you into the caves under Old Crestwood, you can come across a small group of nuts.  The Inquisitor will say that the nugs like it down there and Cole will say that it's quiet and the nugs like the quiet and that dwarves used to trap them but the nugs don't remember.  Then he says, "The dwarves don't even really remember the dwarves."

 

From what I understand, curing tranquility causes the mage to experience every emotion all at once - total emotional overload.  Solas commented how emotional control was like a muscle and for those who had been tranquil for awhile that muscle had atrophied.  He theorized that they could relearn emotional control.  This was all in a party banter with Cassandra btw.

[Vorathrad]

Iron Bull and Dorian do not defend their homelands the same way. Dorian admonishes some of the negative things like blood magic and everything the magisters do. (although he still defends the use of slaves, so...) Iron Bull defends everything about the Qun, even the re-educators and hates on the people who want to leave the Qun because they don't want to live that kind of life.

 

I'm pretty sure IB never says anything about hating those who leave the Qun. Iirc he doesn't seem to think highly of the Tal-vashoth, but he himself has been living mostly outside the Qun for many years and doesn't feel so close to it anymore, as he says to Solas in a banter they get if you save the Chargers. Both Dorian and IB are doing the same thing in my eyes, tbh, which is loving where they come from even if they acknowledge that their respective societies of origin are flawed. People usually take it better coming from Dorian because he is a well liked character and a lot of people have a strong dislike for the Qun. I see the same dynamics as when we were analyzing the lies of Solas and Blackwall some days ago.

 

I don't expect Bull to do that, just as I don't give reprimanding answers in regards to the Qun when I talk to him about it. I love that I have the option to say to Bull "to be honest I don't really understand enough of the Qun to judge it" (or words to that effect), and I RP that Ilaria doesn't get involved when the two argue about it. But I don't disagree with Solas either, particularly the slavery comparisons and the indoctrination.

But facts are as they are and, to an extent, Bull agrees with the Qun and thinks, despite its flaws, it would be a better system for everyone all around. I don't.

 

You don't have to agree with someone's views on life to be respectful and not attacking him for not sharing your views on his society. That's why I don't like Solas' behaviour against IB. I don't agree with many things I read on this thread, and I would never dream of addressing any of you in the tone Solas uses with Bull.

[Armdin]

Screenshotty goodness:

 

Spoiler

Source: http://corvou.tumblr...ou-feel-so-good

 

I hnnnnnnnnngh'd for a good 5 seconds there. That's uncomfortably long.

[Armdin]

You don't have to agree with someone's views on life to be respectful and not attacking him for not sharing your views on his society. That's why I don't like Solas' behaviour against IB. I don't agree with many things I read on this thread, and I would never dream of addressing any of you in the tone Solas uses with Bull.

 

Were we talking about real life or, as you say, here on the board I'd absolutely agree, as it is I'm more relaxed with my morals on a video game*, and don't disapprove of Solas too much in regards to his behavior against Iron Bull. With Dorian on the other hand, he's absolutely being an ass.

 

* Sort of have to be when the majority of the time you play a character that spends a good portion of any game killing people, bad guys or no. x) I'm a pacifist at heart.

[ConcernedGeek]

Solas never actually says who he considers "his" people to be. Mostly he comes off as conflicted about the modern elves. He feels a connection to the elves (current elves) but doesn't have much in common with them. When he's telling an elven inquisitor about the orb, he says that "it is ours" - that the orb is elven. And then after Wicked Hearts he says he doesn't see himself as having much in common with them - although, I kind of wonder if he's talking about city elves or just elves in general.

Okay, I'm gonna say something but please don't hate meet T-TI found DAI conversation overall to be pretty underwhelming. I mean, I don't play dragon age from the riveting gameplay and the open world, I play, or played it, for the conversation. There just wasn't enough of it for me. Does anyone else feel this way?I mean there are just times when Inqy just interrogates people and they say there little introduction and after events they give thier opinion, but it's all very breif and doesn't feel very insightful and it kind of depresses me that the Inqy can't ever really make thier opinion known because the conversation function in this game isn't nuanced enough to allow it.

What do you guys think about the conversation system?

[Avejajed]

DA:I is my waifu.

[Maria13]

I think he mentions this if you make Briala lead in Wicked Hearts, but he does say he doesn't really relate to our elves or see himself as one of them. x) The elves of the past are who he still sees as his people. Someone mentioned a few posts back regarding Solas being disconnected from reality to an extent, and I agree heartily. It's understandable if you go to sleep for so long and everything you knew has changed or gone. And Cole's comment when he breaks up with you along the lines of "You're real, and that means everything else could be too," lends to this argument. Does this mean Solas is clinging to the past still?

 

This is something I've wanted to bring up actually. Abelas and his sentinels can't be the only ancient elves still around. If they could hide, so could others. Does Solas suspect some of "his" people are still around?

 

*strokes long white beard contemplatively*

 

He might be at the beginning but I think by then end of the game he's got to grips with a fair few things, and not only through his relationship with the IQ but with everyone around him... When you go to the temple of the emerald knights, for example he says something like "The Ehlven considered the EKs to the be heroes of The People, to the humans on the other hand they were cruel murderers... the truth is probably somewhere in between..." that doesn't sound like the judgment of someone caught in a fixed mindset...

[Vorathrad]

Were we talking about real life or, as you say, here on the board I'd absolutely agree, as it is I'm more relaxed with my morals on a video game*, and don't disapprove of Solas too much in regards to his behavior against Iron Bull. With Dorian on the other hand, he's absolutely being an ass.

 

* Sort of have to be when the majority of the time you play a character that spends a good portion of any game killing people, bad guys or no. x) I'm a pacifist at heart.

 

I drew the real life parallel because you mentioned not being so bothered by Solas attitude because you don't agree with IB views on the Qun. But I guess we are going around in circles now and we'll have to agree to disagree  Always great to read other opinions, it really makes you think over your own.

 

Changing subject: I find interesting this new approach that maybe Fen'Harel didn't free the slaves; perhaps with the gods locked away and out of contact, the elvhen society crumbled on itself and with the old structures gone, there was nothing binding the slaves to their masters. Which in turn makes me wonder how extended slavery was. All members of society were bound to each other in varying degrees according to a hierarchy? There was only an enslaved class which performed the most menial tasks, much as city elves in modern Thedas? Were there different types of slaves with different status, and for instance someone like Abelas had a higher status than a servant? Questions, questions.

 

I have one more question that I'm asking myself for my next drawing and I'd like to hear your opinion: did the gods have some kind of facial tattoo or paint, or do you think it was so associated to slavery that they would never think of it?

[Armdin]

What do you guys think about the conversation system?

 

It's not perfect, but what is?

 

In all seriousness, I'm becoming more and more impressed with the conversation system. From ME1 I had to headcanon a lot of it because the conversation system was clunky as hell, and it was worse by ME3. In DA:I, there's a great system to say pretty much whatever you want. I've yet to think of a conversation where I haven't been able to say what I wanted my girl to say (except perhaps ALL CONVERSATIONS WITH SOLAS YOU SLY DOG GIMME ANSWERS but they have to draw the line somewhere, or the story will never be able to progress xD)

 

I know it's still not enough for a lot of people, but for me; it's golden.

[nikki-tikki]

As for his purpose- I don't think we're likely to find Fen'Harel having had cruel intentions for sealing away the elven gods. Not when we know the Pantheon was as corrupt as it was. 

 

Fen'Harel was just mad that he didn't look as fabulous as the rest of the pantheon. That's the real reason he locked them away. 

[ConcernedGeek]

I drew the real life parallel because you mentioned not being so bothered by Solas attitude because you don't agree with IB views on the Qun. But I guess we are going around in circles now and we'll have to agree to disagree  Always great to read other opinions, it really makes you think over your own.
 
Changing subject: I find interesting this new approach that maybe Fen'Harel didn't free the slaves; perhaps with the gods locked away and out of contact, the elvhen society crumbled on itself and with the old structures gone, there was nothing binding the slaves to their masters. Which in turn makes me wonder how extended slavery was. All members of society were bound to each other in varying degrees according to a hierarchy? There was only an enslaved class which performed the most menial tasks, much as city elves in modern Thedas? Were there different types of slaves with different status, and for instance someone like Abelas had a higher status than a servant? Questions, questions.
 
I have one more question that I'm asking myself for my next drawing and I'd like to hear your opinion: did the gods have some kind of facial tattoo or paint, or do you think it was so associated to slavery that they would never think of it?

This was a lot like another theory I had! I was talking about this months ago when this forum was super busy. I was wondering if those in Uthenera were actually those higher up in society, possibly people who could afford Uthenera.
I was equating price wise to mummification in ancient Egypt, with the poor not being able to afford the materials, space, and servants it would cost to go into Uthenera.

[Giton]

 

I have one more question that I'm asking myself for my next drawing and I'd like to hear your opinion: did the gods have some kind of facial tattoo or paint, or do you think it was so associated to slavery that they would never think of it?

Falon'Din liked to write poetry on the bodies of his lovers as foreplay. A practice which evolved into his supplicants marking themselves before worshiping at his altar.

 

Also, Andruil liked to mark her body with the blood of her enemies--a practice which also became all the rage in Arlathan.

 

see also: here for GlitterGod vallaslin.

[nikki-tikki]

Falon'Din liked to write poetry on the bodies of his lovers as foreplay. A practice which evolved into his supplicants marking themselves before worshiping at his altar.
 
Also, Andruil liked to mark her body with the blood of her enemies--a practice which also became all the rage in Arlathan.

Wait. Is that actually a thing? Because. Well. I need to know... For science...

[Armdin]

I drew the real life parallel because you mentioned not being so bothered by Solas attitude because you don't agree with IB views on the Qun. But I guess we are going around in circles now and we'll have to agree to disagree  Always great to read other opinions, it really makes you think over your own.

 

Changing subject: I find interesting this new approach that maybe Fen'Harel didn't free the slaves; perhaps with the gods locked away and out of contact, the elvhen society crumbled on itself and with the old structures gone, there was nothing binding the slaves to their masters. Which in turn makes me wonder how extended slavery was. All members of society were bound to each other in varying degrees according to a hierarchy? There was only an enslaved class which performed the most menial tasks, much as city elves in modern Thedas? Were there different types of slaves with different status, and for instance someone like Abelas had a higher status than a servant? Questions, questions.

 

I have one more question that I'm asking myself for my next drawing and I'd like to hear your opinion: did the gods have some kind of facial tattoo or paint, or do you think it was so associated to slavery that they would never think of it?

 

Fair enough, I don't think I'm entirely expressing myself properly so perhaps it's that, but I agree let's leave it there.

 

There was a fanfic I read (the only one I had the courage to read and it was an AU), I can't remember what it was called but it was linked here at one point. Anyway, it was basically set in Fen'Harel's days and with him going around with a Lavellan and doing little missions to free pockets of slaves from under their masters. Fen'Harel essentially using his abilities to remove the Vallaslin and thus this somehow freed the elves from their masters.

 

I loved the writing but I couldn't finish it, purely because I can't see Fen'Harel/Solas making his rebellion that way. I see him more as a "big picture" guy, and would make one big move in secrecy to bring down the elven Gods. He does, he seals them away, but makes no mention to the slaves themselves.

 

One day they're fighting amongst themselves in the names of their Gods, the next their Gods are gone. Not all of them were unwilling slaves, surely. Some must have believed in their cause, their fighting, even if it was only for the vanity of their masters. So they keep fighting, somehow finding out that Fen'Harel is the one that locked away the Gods and instead of cheering, they blame him for it. And then the Tevinter come.

 

Does Fen'Harel realize this? Is he already asleep at this point, or is he awake long enough to realize what he's done hasn't actually solved anything. I personally would like to believe the former, but I don't know. x)

 

The fanfic also compared Abelas as more of a servant/bodyguard to Mythal rather than a slave too, and I think this fits him.

[Elessara]

Okay, I'm gonna say something but please don't hate meet T-TI found DAI conversation overall to be pretty underwhelming. I mean, I don't play dragon age from the riveting gameplay and the open world, I play, or played it, for the conversation. There just wasn't enough of it for me. Does anyone else feel this way?I mean there are just times when Inqy just interrogates people and they say there little introduction and after events they give thier opinion, but it's all very breif and doesn't feel very insightful and it kind of depresses me that the Inqy can't ever really make thier opinion known because the conversation function in this game isn't nuanced enough to allow it.

What do you guys think about the conversation system?

 

Certainly not going to hate on you for saying that!  

 

And I agree.  The conversations don't feel as in-depth as they did in Origins.  But this could be because now the protagonist is voice acted and in the case of DAI the protagonist has 4 different voice actors.

 

What I also miss from DA2 is how Hawke took part in the party banters.  I know this was in part because of the tone/personality system that DA2 employed (which I actually liked for the most part) so they could have an appropriate line for Hawke to say and they don't have that in DAI.  And I know there are a couple of banters where the Inquisitor is prompted to say something - and one I know of where the Inquisitor just spontaneously says something.  But I do miss having the main char take part in the banters.

[Avejajed]

Wait. Is that actually a thing? Because. Well. I need to know... For science...

It is now. Which means you should draw it. I still want someone to draw my Revas surrounded by elvish men and her lording over them all.

You guys though OUAT comes back tonight and I missed my otp so much.

[ConcernedGeek]

It's not perfect, but what is?
 
In all seriousness, I'm becoming more and more impressed with the conversation system. From ME1 I had to headcanon a lot of it because the conversation system was clunky as hell, and it was worse by ME3. In DA:I, there's a great system to say pretty much whatever you want. I've yet to think of a conversation where I haven't been able to say what I wanted my girl to say (except perhaps ALL CONVERSATIONS WITH SOLAS YOU SLY DOG GIMME ANSWERS but they have to draw the line somewhere, or the story will never be able to progress xD)
 
I know it's still not enough for a lot of people, but for me; it's golden.

I guess it's because I'm still comparing it largely to origins. In that regards it's really unimpressive. Sure there was no voice for the warden, but there were much more of a nuanced feeling to it, especially because you not able to hear the vocal intonations of another person. The voices just seem a little off to me. The higher voice sounds too wierd, but the deep voice sounds too bland. Eh whatever.

[AryBoBary]

[Fair enough, I don't think I'm entirely expressing myself properly so perhaps it's that, but I agree let's leave it there.

 

There was a fanfic I read (the only one I had the courage to read and it was an AU), I can't remember what it was called but it was linked here at one point. Anyway, it was basically set in Fen'Harel's days and with him going around with a Lavellan and doing little missions to free pockets of slaves from under their masters. Fen'Harel essentially using his abilities to remove the Vallaslin and thus this somehow freed the elves from their masters.

 

I loved the writing but I couldn't finish it, purely because I can't see Fen'Harel/Solas making his rebellion that way. I see him more as a "big picture" guy, and would make one big move in secrecy to bring down the elven Gods. He does, he seals them away, but makes no mention to the slaves themselves.

 

One day they're fighting amongst themselves in the names of their Gods, the next their Gods are gone. Not all of them were unwilling slaves, surely. Some must have believed in their cause, their fighting, even if it was only for the vanity of their masters. So they keep fighting, somehow finding out that Fen'Harel is the one that locked away the Gods and instead of cheering, they blame him for it. And then the Tevinter come.

 

Does Fen'Harel realize this? Is he already asleep at this point, or is he awake long enough to realize what he's done hasn't actually solved anything. I personally would like to believe the former, but I don't know. x)

 

The fanfic also compared Abelas as more of a servant/bodyguard to Mythal rather than a slave too, and I think this fits him.

 

I believe that would be Crystal White by Bre'Lakor?  

 

Edit: Maybe?