153434 réponses à ce sujet

[ConcernedGeek]

Why is it so painful!? And why do I get the feeling abso-fuckin-lutely none of it will ever be explored in a Canadian made game!? I mean if Gaider is smart enough to make such a realistic racist world how is he going to finish it? More racist? Am I going to realize more so how everyone in Dragon age is scum until nothing is left but a hateful little husk? Are we ever going to get the chance to play a role in which our race is actually an issue? Are they ever going to explore the idea of racial identity in a nuanced fashion?

[ConcernedGeek]

All of the modern elves are descendants of slaves...

But they didn't have the brand!? Presupposing the Elvhen were a caste system the ones who didn't go into Uthenera were either deposed nobles or merchants with enoug money to stay out of slavery

[Colonelkillabee]

Why is someone being racist any more of a big deal to you than someone believing in global warming. It's all the same ignorant ****. People are stupid. Even smart people are stupid. Life goes on.

[MoonDrummer]

But they didn't have the brand!? Presupposing the Elvhen were a caste system the ones who didn't go into Uthenera were either deposed nobles or merchants with enoug money to stay out of slavery

You've confused me

[ConcernedGeek]

Why is someone being racist any more of a big deal to you than someone believing in global warming. It's all the same ignorant ****. People are stupid. Even smart people are stupid. Life goes on.

No, in the game! It's such a deep rooted hatred! Don't you seeeeeeee it? All the elves you meet are like "**** the Dalish", and the humans are too much like "**** all elves"

And I just mean to say that we haven't really played a role in which our race has ever actually been an issue in bioware games. Warden or Inquisitor, both are positions too well respected for anyone to turn you away from shops or refuse to barter with you or refuse to give a quest....

[ConcernedGeek]

You've confused me

Sorry, I was reading this Fic called Apotheosis, and this writer had really interesting headcanons/AU (if it turns out to be wrong I guess).

And they were talking about it like 400 pages ago sorry if I'm not being too clear, still thinking that mind set....

[Mims]

Yoooo you guys! Just realized as I was realized as I was reading this Fic apotheosis that the elves left in the city weren't slives, the one in the dales were. So basically everyone is being racist to former slaves, especially Sera, who Solas basically said would have been a noble or a lady. Really pissing me off thinking about this.
 

 

It is very early. But, I'll touch up on this a little bit. 

 

This isn't true. With the exception of ancient elvhen, all elves were slaves in Tevinter. Dalish have vallaslin because they eventually rose up and attempted to reclaim their heritage. The 'city' elves are just the remnants of the slave population who did not disperse, those who have integrated completely with humans, or those who come from fallen Dalish tribes. But there is no clearcut split between nobility and the former slave class. All of that has been obliterated by time.

 

When Solas tells Sera that she is far from what she should be, he's talking about elves in general. He isn't saying that she should be a noble. Solas does not like class distinctions.

 

While he is a bit harsh on the Dalish, you also have to remember that the Dalish have been equally harsh on him. He's not some lofty god incapable of being hurt. He sacrificed everything for them, and in return they demonized him. That doesn't mean his feelings are justified, but it isn't as easy as saying that he feels the Dalish are just playing dress up. The Dalish and the City Elves have essentially repeated the same problems that elves have always had. They formed a class system, and they shat all over the class below them. He wanted more for them.

 

He is not unaware that this is all his fault. Part of his anger with the Dalish likely comes from anger he feels towards himself. 

[Delphine]

Why is someone being racist any more of a big deal to you than someone believing in global warming. It's all the same ignorant ****. People are stupid. Even smart people are stupid. Life goes on.

 

Errrr... Sigh, I don't even wanna start this, not in the mood for debate, but still, wow.

 

[ConcernedGeek]

It is very early. But, I'll touch up on this a little bit. 
 
This isn't true. With the exception of ancient elvhen, all elves were slaves in Tevinter. Dalish have vallaslin because they eventually rose up and attempted to reclaim their heritage. The 'city' elves are just the remnants of the slave population who did not disperse, those who have integrated completely with humans, or those who come from fallen Dalish tribes. But there is no clearcut split between nobility and the former slave class. All of that has been obliterated by time.
 
When Solas tells Sera that she is far from what she should be, he's talking about elves in general. He isn't saying that she should be a noble. Solas does not like class distinctions.
 
While he is a bit harsh on the Dalish, you also have to remember that the Dalish have been equally harsh on him. He's not some lofty god incapable of being hurt. He sacrificed everything for them, and in return they demonized him. That doesn't mean his feelings are justified, but it isn't as easy as saying that he feels the Dalish are just playing dress up. The Dalish and the City Elves have essentially repeated the same problems that elves have always had. They formed a class system, and they shat all over the class below them. He wanted more for them.
 
He is not unaware that this is all his fault. Part of his anger with the Dalish likely comes from anger he feels towards himself.

Ah **** you're totally right! I guess I was just pissed about what she said if you choose to get rid of your tats.

But we don't know for sure if he freed the salves right? What if he just didn't warn these ones, or the lower class wasn't able to go into Uthenera and he's just looking down on them because he's actually just a classict *******?
But what if he was just an ******* and freeing the slaves was an unforeseen consequence of his plan? Sorry sorry in advance if this pisses someone off
I'm just mmmm

[Mims]

Ah **** you're totally right! I guess I was just pissed about what she said if you choose to get rid of your tats.

But we don't know for sure if he freed the salves right? What if he just didn't warn these ones, or the lower class wasn't able to go into Uthenera and he's just looking down on them because he's actually just a classict *******?
But what if he was just an ******* and freeing the slaves was an unforeseen consequence of his plan? Sorry sorry in advance if this pisses someone off
I'm just mmmm

 

Fanfiction is great! Just don't take it as lore. 

 

We don't know in specific terms that he did what he did solely to free the slaves. But considering freedom is one of the few things he does not shut up about in the game, and slavery of any sentient being is generally enough for him to flip a table...it is a fair bet that slavery had something to do with it. What we do know is that the elven pantheon was corrupt. They sacrificed elves, they exploited the slave class. They were brutal, vindictive, and vain.

 

At some point there was a massive betrayal of Mythal, likely coming from somewhere within the pantheon.

 

Solas made the decision to seal away the other elven gods. According to Cole, to save them. ['Them' could be both the elven gods, or 'them' as in the people.] He didn't do it to be right, or to gain from the action personally. He was not attempting to take over the empire, otherwise Abelas would not have been so quick to defend him.

 

Even though Solas himself has doubts, even Cole says that he made the right decision. 

[ConcernedGeek]

I don't think he saved them you guys! I don't think he meant to free the slaves!!

I think he was trying to protect the people who he trapped in the fade and Uthenera becuase he thought the were worthy or he considered them his family or people or something. I think he was protecting them from something terrible that he left everyone else to face alone. You guys you guys aaaaaaah

[Colonelkillabee]

Errrr... Sigh, I don't even wanna start this, not in the mood for debate, but still, wow.

 

 

Good, because I'm not surprised, nor do I care what you think on it, and this isn't the place.

[ConcernedGeek]

Fanfiction is great! Just don't take it as lore. 
 
We don't know in specific terms that he did what he did solely to free the slaves. But considering freedom is one of the few things he does not shut up about in the game, and slavery of any sentient being is generally enough for him to flip a table...it is a fair bet that slavery had something to do with it. What we do know is that the elven pantheon was corrupt. They sacrificed elves, they exploited the slave class. They were brutal, vindictive, and vain.
 
At some point there was a massive betrayal of Mythal, likely coming from somewhere within the pantheon.
 
Solas made the decision to seal away the other elven gods. According to Cole, to save them. ['Them' could be both the elven gods, or 'them' as in the people.] He didn't do it to be right, or to gain from the action personally. He was not attempting to take over the empire, otherwise Abelas would not have been so quick to defend him.
 
Even though Solas himself has doubts, even Cole says that he made the right decision.

That part wasn't from the Fic, I just think that's too convenient. I don't think it's right. It's just, if he's all "when did I say I would save you?" Why would he free slaves? Why would people abhor and forget him? What if everything we thought we knew about Solas is wrong? What if he's a better liar then we thought, what if he has lingering guilt from leaving everyone to thier fate?

[Kappa Neko]

But... When is it not weird in this thread?

 

 

Also, I'm currently throwing money at my computer screen, because I just watched Trine 3's new trailer, and my body is totally ready for it. OOOOH YES!

Spoiler

OMG, there will be a Trine 3 ???   Why didn't I know that?!

Thank you for letting me know!!! God, I love how these games make me feel like I'm ten again. Trine 3. Awesome.

 

(Have you seen the trailer for Ori And the Blind Forest by any chance? So need to get it for PC!)

[Colonelkillabee]

No, in the game! It's such a deep rooted hatred! Don't you seeeeeeee it? All the elves you meet are like "**** the Dalish", and the humans are too much like "**** all elves"

And I just mean to say that we haven't really played a role in which our race has ever actually been an issue in bioware games. Warden or Inquisitor, both are positions too well respected for anyone to turn you away from shops or refuse to barter with you or refuse to give a quest....

I see it, I don't care. It's been around in our world and theirs for a very long time. It's nothing new, and it won't go away, so why fret it.

 

I also don't much care about race being a big issue and being turned away from shops, simply because I wouldn't care for that annoyance in the game. Having it mentioned more, definitely. Especially Qunari, and especially if you're smashing the right hand of the last divine. Someone should say something to you and Cass about that. And if you're a blood mage or so on, necromage, etc, somebody should say something about your maleficarum ass.

 

But other than that, na.

[Delphine]

Good, because I'm not surprised, nor do I care what you think on it, and this isn't the place.

 

Funny how my challenging the existence of a god is arrogant to you, but you feel totally entitled to insult anyone who thinks Global Warming might exist.

Anyway, here, I'll leave you with some John Oliver, even if I doubt it'll make any difference.

I just love to throw John Oliver at people's face in any occasion :3

 

 

OMG, there will be a Trine 3 ???   Why didn't I know that?!

Thank you for letting me know!!! God, I love how these games make me feel like I'm ten again. Trine 3. Awesome.

 

(Have you seen the trailer for Ori And the Blind Forest by any chance? So need to get it for PC!)

 

Yes yes, I need to play it as well! I have a huge thing for indie games, so I'm always interested in playing some more. And Ori and the Blind Forest looks sooo great!

[ConcernedGeek]

Good, because I'm not surprised, nor do I care what you think on it, and this isn't the place.

I want to know your opion though, and this a judgement free zone. Supposing it's just fantasy racism and all, and since your icon is a dwarf(am I right?). What do you think about Solas and his racism towards dwarfs, in particular the level of overall systematic racism it implies.

Alright, let me say it this way. Solas and everyone in Thedas looks down on dwarves in more ways then one. They have the to speak of currently, a top selling author(varric), a genius/the best arcanist, the best engineer(Bianca), but people still look down on them. How does it make you feel, do you just shake it off and keep going? If it interfered with gameplay would you care?

[ReiKokoFuuu]

just dropping by some solas art i saw today on deviantart, sorry if these have already been posted

 

art by Purple-Meow - http://purple-meow.deviantart.com/

 

this one is NSFW so putting it in spoiler tags:

Spoiler

 

Art by airagitt - http://airagitt.deviantart.com/

[Colonelkillabee]

Funny how my challenging the existence of a god is arrogant to you, but you feel totally entitled to insult anyone who thinks Global Warming might exist.

 

Twas a joke, lol. I do believe it's BS though.

 

And I don't get my opinions from TV, so I'm good. And moving on.

[Mims]

I don't think he saved them you guys! I don't think he meant to free the slaves!!

I think he was trying to protect the people who he trapped in the fade and Uthenera becuase he thought the were worthy or he considered them his family or people or something. I think he was protecting them from something terrible that he left everyone else to face alone. You guys you guys aaaaaaah

 

I don't doubt that Solas has done some awful things. He may have let many innocent elves die in his plan to trap the elven gods. [How do you separate gods from their most loyal followers?] He might have been a legitimate villain in the days prior to the fall of Arlathan. 

 

But there's no evidence that he protected only a certain amount of people and let the rest to face some calamity alone. The elvhen empire destroyed itself. The game and Masked Empire implies pretty heavily that it would have collapsed in on itself with or without Fen'Harel's intervention. 

 

That part wasn't from the Fic, I just think that's too convenient. I don't think it's right. It's just, if he's all "when did I say I would save you?" Why would he free slaves? Why would people abhor and forget him? What if everything we thought we knew about Solas is wrong? What if he's a better liar then we thought, what if he has lingering guilt from leaving everyone to thier fate?

 

Because they were slaves, and all they knew was servitude to the gods.

 

Then one day Fen'Harel comes along and takes all that away. It doesn't matter if from our perspective he would have been saving them. To them, he took away everything they had. What they had might not have been much, but it was stability. Arlathan fell into civil war, and Tevinter eventually came to clean up the pieces. Of course you'd hate the guy who caused all of that. 

 

 

 

I don't mean to suggest you can't be suspicious of his current motives or anything. He may yet be a villain again to right his wrong. But I don't think we're likely to find that he was classist, or that he's out for his own gain. 

[Colonelkillabee]

I want to know your opion though, and this a judgement free zone. Supposing it's just fantasy racism and all, and since your icon is a dwarf(am I right?). What do you think about Solas and his racism towards dwarfs, in particular the level of overall systematic racism it implies.

Alright, let me say it this way. Solas and everyone in Thedas looks down on dwarves in more ways then one. They have the to speak of currently, a top selling author(varric), a genius/the best arcanist, the best engineer(Bianca), but people still look down on them. How does it make you feel, do you just shake it off and keep going? If it interfered with gameplay would you care?

Na that was about the global warming thing since people miss my brand of humor on occasion. It's seasoned with just a bit of truth to get someone's jimmies in a twist.

 

Anyway, I'm not a dwarf, I just have an awesome beard. As for Solas' racism, I find it irrelevant. Everyone's at least a little racist to some degree. Solas is a lot more due to his lack of experience with humans. It doesn't keep him from being useful, and his opinion of me isn't effected by it, at least not too much, so I don't care.

[Illyria]

Because they were slaves, and all they knew was servitude to the gods.

 

Then one day Fen'Harel comes along and takes all that away. It doesn't matter if from our perspective he would have been saving them. To them, he took away everything they had. What they had might not have been much, but it was stability. Arlathan fell into civil war, and Tevinter eventually came to clean up the pieces. Of course you'd hate the guy who caused all of that. 

 

 

That's exactly why I think the story of the Slow Arrow was Felassan's way of telling Briala about the fall of the elven empire and Fen'Harel's role in it.

[ConcernedGeek]

I don't know you guys, this all looks pretty suspect to me.

[CapricornSun]

That's exactly why I think the story of the Slow Arrow was Felassan's way of telling Briala about the fall of the elven empire and Fen'Harel's role in it.

 

Now I want a scene where Briala tells the story of the Slow Arrow to the Inquisitor.

 

EDIT: Also, giving your post a like.

[Siha]

Yoooo you guys! Just realized as I was realized as I was reading this Fic apotheosis that the elves left in the city weren't slives, the one in the dales were. So basically everyone is being racist to former slaves, especially Sera, who Solas basically said would have been a noble or a lady. Really pissing me off thinking about this.

Basically I'm starting to hate Solas, Sera, and Abelas. Abelas's whole bullshit about Dalish being shadows of the elves former selves is issuing me off. Thinking that the dalish' identity is based around a time when they were chattel is pissing me off. I'm so ****** mad at Solas and his bullshit, I'm so mad that there is no option to call him out on his bullshit, I'm pissed that everything we know about elves may be wrong. I'm pissed off that everyone who was Elvhen was probably scum, and the Solas was probably the worst scum, since he's a classics racist ****, but worries me more is he is the most likable of all the scum.

****. I'm pissed off by the fact that Solas views the Dalish as children playing dress up and basically says to my ****** face that the Dalish are basically trash culturally "and I suppose I should wonder around in the forest mourning my lost culture". I'm pissed off that we can't do anything to fight back or defend ourselves against this judgement. I'm pissed off that the Dalish are still treated so poorly after all this time. I'm pissed off that Solas won't even give the Dalish a chance because he's thinking in terms of an older person looking down on the new generation and not considering the circumstances that they lived under.

I can't take this anymore, this is literally tearing me apart you guys. I feel so ****** hopeless. How does anyone keep living under all this ****** hatred? How have the Dalish survived so long after be looked down upon so badly!?

 

So, basically, you're just having a real bad day, uh? I kinda get the feeling you're a bit pissed off. Man, I totally understand you. Though I am not so quite sure I understand your issue. But I totally understand your frustration, I feel it too in this very moment.

 

someone believing in global warming. It's all the same ignorant ****. 

 

Pardon? Joke, yea, still:   Don't give me a reason to get on your back again with my liberal BS. You know you won't hear the end of it.