Ok people. Just to clarify, the Qunari (all of them) consider the Kossith totally separate from the Qunari. You can ask Iron Bull about them, and he says their race is separate from the Kossith and they probably don't look much like the Qunari. They had to travel away from their original homeland for.. reasons a while back.
Before, people on the forum pretty started using Kossith and Qunari interchangeably, but it's not accurate at this point.
More theories to muse over!
Though now I'm going to have to rethink all my previous theories.
The fact that the pyramids are in the shape of Elgar'nan constellation is intriguing but there's no reason why the Qunari couldn't have their own associations for those constellations.
The pictures of humans worshipping horned things is fascinating! At first my mind just jumped straight to Flemeth and her excellent hair. If it is the kossith then they would have had to live in Thedas, flee without a trace, and abandon the place so thoroughly that the Qunari would consider it a safe place to escape to. They would have to be truly fearsome indeed for the Qunari to flee them, but what could have made then leave in the first place? I doubt the Tevinters could have done it, and I suppose we don't really know what Arlathan was up to at this point. I suppose they could have been sent away by the old elves if they did indeed serve them.
What if they (the kossith) were actually at war with the old elves? Fighting a powerful enemy (since Tevinter apparently wasn't that big a deal just yet) would have given the old elves reason to grow and become the strong united front they must have been at some point (the pantheons high point presumably). Once they beat them, or at least drove them out of Thedas the elven empire could have stagnated with no enemy to unite them, thus letting them fall to infighting. It would also explain why Solas is so very prejudiced against our delightful horned friends, he sees them as just the uncivilized enemy.
Or maybe its both! Perhaps they were a created race servant class that rebelled...
Oh dear. The Rambling's getting worse.
Another little thing that could mean nothing or everything is some of the concept art for the Sentinels in the artbook. Many of the concepts appear to be elves with horns. Clearly not big Qunari, but lithe elves with horns. That this idea even exists for the ancient elves is very interesting. Flemythal's hair horns are suddenly more suspicious.
The Kossith possibly being part of a warring faction of ancient elves, if not the faction themselves is an interesting possibility. The "powers beyond the sea" could be a surviving elven kingdom or even a "god." Although to go back to the Elgar'nan association for a moment, he is known for his rage, and that is also something associated with the nature of the Qunari. I could see him having his own special force of super soldiers that express his particular brand of berserker spirit. Why they'd be off across the ocean is a good question, but there's a lot we don't know. I think they were gone before Elvhenan fell... I almost wonder if Fen'Harel might have had something to do with it.
Solas seeing the Qunari as an old enemy would explain a lot. It's also possible he sees them as a shadowy remnant of the oppressive society he once rebelled against, and seeing it still rankles him.
Another little thing that could mean nothing or everything is some of the concept art for the Sentinels in the artbook. Many of the concepts appear to be elves with horns. Clearly not big Qunari, but lithe elves with horns. That this idea even exists for the ancient elves is very interesting. Flemythal's hair horns are suddenly more suspicious.
The Kossith possibly being part of a warring faction of ancient elves, if not the faction themselves is an interesting possibility. The "powers beyond the sea" could be a surviving elven kingdom or even a "god." Although to go back to the Elgar'nan association for a moment, he is known for his rage, and that is also something associated with the nature of the Qunari. I could see him having his own special force of super soldiers that express his particular brand of berserker spirit. Why they'd be off across the ocean is a good question, but there's a lot we don't know. I think they were gone before Elvhenan fell... I almost wonder if Fen'Harel might have had something to do with it.
Solas seeing the Qunari as an old enemy would explain a lot. It's also possible he sees them as a shadowy remnant of the oppressive society he once rebelled against, and seeing it still rankles him.
he might consider the Qun little better than Elvhenan, he mentions the lack of thought or privacy in thoughts at some point, doesn't he?
Another little thing that could mean nothing or everything is some of the concept art for the Sentinels in the artbook. Many of the concepts appear to be elves with horns. Clearly not big Qunari, but lithe elves with horns. That this idea even exists for the ancient elves is very interesting. Flemythal's hair horns are suddenly more suspicious.
The Kossith possibly being part of a warring faction of ancient elves, if not the faction themselves is an interesting possibility. The "powers beyond the sea" could be a surviving elven kingdom or even a "god." Although to go back to the Elgar'nan association for a moment, he is known for his rage, and that is also something associated with the nature of the Qunari. I could see him having his own special force of super soldiers that express his particular brand of berserker spirit. Why they'd be off across the ocean is a good question, but there's a lot we don't know. I think they were gone before Elvhenan fell... I almost wonder if Fen'Harel might have had something to do with it.
Solas seeing the Qunari as an old enemy would explain a lot. It's also possible he sees them as a shadowy remnant of the oppressive society he once rebelled against, and seeing it still rankles him.
I really like all of this. 
If the Executors aren't kossith, I hope they're a surviving elven kingdom. Fits in with the naming theme of the ancient elves, going off the one example we have so far. 
The Sentinels watch over the Temple of Mythal and awake only to protect it.
The Executors act out Elgar'nan's will from beyond the Fade.
Can you imagine the look on the Chantry's face if they were invaded by ancient elves? 
he might consider the Qun little better than Elvhenan, he mentions the lack of thought or privacy in thoughts at some point, doesn't he?
Yup. I'm actually in the middle of the Temple of Dirthamen at the moment, and the priests of Dirthamen were supposed to know and see all... Imagine a society that can see into your dreams and find dissention. Then imagine it's like the Qun, but there's literally no way to hide your private thoughts and dreams. Maybe it wasn't exactly the same as the Qun, but the level of society control the ancient elves had is hinted in things like this and the well of sorrows.
Ol' Fen'Harel may have constructed the veil and sealed away the gods for very good reason, even if the side-effects may have been devastating.
Another little thing that could mean nothing or everything is some of the concept art for the Sentinels in the artbook. Many of the concepts appear to be elves with horns. Clearly not big Qunari, but lithe elves with horns. That this idea even exists for the ancient elves is very interesting. Flemythal's hair horns are suddenly more suspicious.
The Kossith possibly being part of a warring faction of ancient elves, if not the faction themselves is an interesting possibility. The "powers beyond the sea" could be a surviving elven kingdom or even a "god." Although to go back to the Elgar'nan association for a moment, he is known for his rage, and that is also something associated with the nature of the Qunari. I could see him having his own special force of super soldiers that express his particular brand of berserker spirit. Why they'd be off across the ocean is a good question, but there's a lot we don't know. I think they were gone before Elvhenan fell... I almost wonder if Fen'Harel might have had something to do with it.
Solas seeing the Qunari as an old enemy would explain a lot. It's also possible he sees them as a shadowy remnant of the oppressive society he once rebelled against, and seeing it still rankles him.
Elgar'nan's pet kossith. Hmm, for a leader of a bunch of sometimes-dragons-almost-deities, why the heck not? The species are huge, strong, with Berserker tendencies and they look kinda dragonish. If they were the arm of Elgar'nan's unrelenting wrath then it would make a lot of sense for Solas to look down on them as angry mindless brutes. Though again that raises the question of why they left, either on Elgar'nan's command or not. Perhaps the remaining Kossith were a much more violent and powerful version of the Dalish, blindly following the half remembered orders of an elven deity long since lost. The Qunari rebels then flee the arbitrarily angry society and form the cripplingly logical Qun.
And Flemeth's hair horns are amazing no matter how suspicious.
Yup. I'm actually in the middle of the Temple of Dirthamen at the moment, and the priests of Dirthamen were supposed to know and see all... Imagine a society that can see into your dreams and find dissention. Then imagine it's like the Qun, but there's literally no way to hide your private thoughts and dreams. Maybe it wasn't exactly the same as the Qun, but the level of society control the ancient elves had is hinted in things like this and the well of sorrows.
Ol' Fen'Harel may have constructed the veil and sealed away the gods for very good reason, even if the side-effects may have been devastating.
Boy that's terrifying. Solas is especially critical of the loss of private thought and personal freedoms under the Qun. But heck, at least they aren't mind readers
I just remembered something... The Qunari claim they don't dream...or at least they don't enter dreams. This is highly debatable because Qunari mages exist, but there may be something funny going on there. Maybe it's less a disconnect from the Fade like the dwarves, and more of a bred Fade resistance? Loose lips sink ships, and soldiers who can be mind-read or controlled from the Fade by the enemy are a liability. And what do the Qunari do with Qunari who apparently have a genetic slip and manifest magic, demonstrating that the resistance isn't there? Sew their lips shut and put a big helmet on their head so they have to be led around everywhere. They make use of everything, but the potential liability is brutally controlled.
If I recall correctly you're French, right Delphine? XD I'm Italian but currently living in Versailles so...we are somewhat close! yay! *high five*
Welcome
UK here but half Spanish, I have a place in Spain too...
Italy and France eh? Don't suppose any of you are watching the rugby?
Spoiler
You haven't met Wales yet! We follow Wales chez moi
I think the implication is that it's some time during the night and you find him in the fade while you're both dreaming. Though I do like the idea of Solas putting you in some kind of sleeper hold and carrying you off, hahaha. Like that comic with the Adaar Inquisitor where he smashes a bottle over her head which I'm too lazy to find and post. And doesn't he say "sleep well?" when you greet him in the rotunda afterwards? He did both times I've done it, and during my husband's pt.
Also, am I the only one who thinks the way he says "sleep well" is super sexually charged? Maybe it's just smug, and I'm interpreting it through my Everything-Solas-does-is-hot glasses.
You mean this one? http://jessadilla.tu...om/tagged/solas
Also sharing the others because they're funny and I love them:
My favourite: (I love Solas's "I hate it here" expression!)
There's a couple of others but I'll leave it for the link so people have to click and give the artist some views. *v*
Also, to the last part. Yes. I was still sitting there going "Ggyynnnnnngggguuu!" and then he said "Sleep well?" and I think I melted into a puddle for a good 10 minutes. I'm such a shameful fangirl. ;_;
The Qunari claim they don't dream...or at least they don't enter dreams. ... Loose lips sink ships, and soldiers who can be mind-read or controlled from the Fade by the enemy are a liability.
I am not aware of any facts regarding Qunari and dreaming.
But you are right that magical abilities are not looked upon well by the Qunari.
However, we know that dragons have a higher mental resistance, which is why they are strong enough to carry an OGS instead of being crushed by the Song. (At least that's what I remember from the theories weeks ago). And Bull says the Qunari are deliberately bred, possibly even including some dragon DNA. If we combine these aspects I imagine they are bred in a fashion to sever their ability to dream and strengthen their mind in a dragon fashion. Hence also those techniques to overcome your fear, pain, and inhibitions by pure will. Bending the mind seems to be a fundamental aspect of following the Qun.
Even with the Fade tongue, I am super creeped out by the fact that Solas puts you instantly to sleep and carries you to your bed (one assumes) without so much as a by-your-leave and then wakes you up and never refers to it again. My first character was a dwarf and she ran her happy hiney down to the rotunda for an explanation. He just glances over coolly. "Inquisitor?" Like he hadn't just done something completely impossible. Smug, sexy bastard.
If you don't kiss him/play as a non-f!Lavellan then you do get dialogue which makes it clear that the Inquisitor was dreaming when she spoke to Solas in the first place, sought out Solas in her dream and the Haven scene was a continuation of this dream.
It's a shame that the scene itself doesn't make that more clear.
EDIT: ninja'd
You mean this one? http://jessadilla.tu...om/tagged/solas
Spoiler
Also sharing the others because they're funny and I love them:
Spoiler
My favourite: (I love Solas's "I hate it here" expression!)
Spoiler
There's a couple of others but I'll leave it for the link so people have to click and give the artist some views. *v*
Also, to the last part. Yes. I was still sitting there going "Ggyynnnnnngggguuu!" and then he said "Sleep well?" and I think I melted into a puddle for a good 10 minutes. I'm such a shameful fangirl. ;_;
LOL, I love her comics of Adaar and Solas. xD They make me laugh all the time. (My favorite is that last comic you posted.)
YES
Also, am I the only one who thinks the way he says "sleep well" is super sexually charged? Maybe it's just smug, and I'm interpreting it through my Everything-Solas-does-is-hot glasses.
Not at all; the first time I got that line and after the very suggestive "Wake up" one with my Cullenmance Trevelyan, I though "This guy is hitting on me? Yes, yes he is." It could be my I-see-wuv-everywhere glasses, but with that pt I got the impression that Solas had a small crush on my Trev.
I really want an Elfquisition. Merrill as arcane adviser, Briala as spymaster, Abelas as Commander... still missing someone respected enough to be the diplomat though. We could just stick some prosthetic ears on Josie I guess. Or the Warden if they're an elf.
Dunno if an all-elf military/religious order would make Solas proud or just make him roll his eyes.
I fully support Velanna as diplomat.
I fully support Velanna as diplomat.
You'd doom us all! I'd say, bah what's the clan in origins during the werewolf quest? their first, she's apparently a good diplomat
More theories to muse over!
Though now I'm going to have to rethink all my previous theories.
The fact that the pyramids are in the shape of Elgar'nan constellation is intriguing but there's no reason why the Qunari couldn't have their own associations for those constellations.
The pictures of humans worshipping horned things is fascinating! At first my mind just jumped straight to Flemeth and her excellent hair. If it is the kossith then they would have had to live in Thedas, flee without a trace, and abandon the place so thoroughly that the Qunari would consider it a safe place to escape to. They would have to be truly fearsome indeed for the Qunari to flee them, but what could have made then leave in the first place? I doubt the Tevinters could have done it, and I suppose we don't really know what Arlathan was up to at this point. I suppose they could have been sent away by the old elves if they did indeed serve them.
What if they (the kossith) were actually at war with the old elves? Fighting a powerful enemy (since Tevinter apparently wasn't that big a deal just yet) would have given the old elves reason to grow and become the strong united front they must have been at some point (the pantheons high point presumably). Once they beat them, or at least drove them out of Thedas the elven empire could have stagnated with no enemy to unite them, thus letting them fall to infighting. It would also explain why Solas is so very prejudiced against our delightful horned friends, he sees them as just the uncivilized enemy.
Or maybe its both! Perhaps they were a created race servant class that rebelled...
Oh dear. The Rambling's getting worse.
Not at all; the first time I got that line and after the very suggestive "Wake up" one with my Cullenmance Trevelyan, I though "This guy is hitting on me? Yes, yes he is." It could be my I-see-wuv-everywhere glasses, but with that pt I got the impression that Solas had a small crush on my Trev.
Didn't I see a while back that they had some male Inquisitor lines recorded for Solas's romance? It's entirely possible, especially if you build a friendship with him.
I always imagine Sera crushing hard on Lavellan.
Didn't I see a while back that they had some male Inquisitor lines recorded for Solas's romance? It's entirely possible, especially if you build a friendship with him.
I always imagine Sera crushing hard on Lavellan.
Apparently Weekes wrote the romance for f!Lavellans. Either they thought about making him bi or they just got all four actors to record the new dialogue because it was quicker than dividing the scripts.
I am not aware of any facts regarding Qunari and dreaming.
But you are right that magical abilities are not looked upon well by the Qunari.
However, we know that dragons have a higher mental resistance, which is why they are strong enough to carry an OGS instead of being crushed by the Song. (At least that's what I remember from the theories weeks ago). And Bull says the Qunari are deliberately bred, possibly even including some dragon DNA. If we combine these aspects I imagine they are bred in a fashion to sever their ability to dream and strengthen their mind in a dragon fashion. Hence also those techniques to overcome your fear, pain, and inhibitions by pure will. Bending the mind seems to be a fundamental aspect of following the Qun.
WoT has a section about the Fade and different races. Qunari claim they don't dream, whether or not this is true or simply because it's forbidden by the Qun is up in the air. Apparently Qunari are rarely found in the Fade, and that's used to support the idea. Although it's funny that the Qun could simply outlaw dreaming and expect it to be enforced. That dreaming is forbidden at all is odd. If it's another remnant of an old order, it makes a little more sense.
I think the Old Gods/Archdemons are probably shapeshifted elven gods rather than possessed dragons, but I agree the properties of dragons and their blood are likely why they were bred into the Qunari, whether they were originally elves or otherwise. Whether the Kossith and/or Qunari were bred for the exact same purposes given by the Qun is another thing...
Speaking of purpose, which is kinda big with Qunari, the Dalish concept of Sulevin, "purpose" still nags at me at how familiar it sounds. The Cradle of Sulevin was also where I noticed for the first time how similar the Qunari crosshatch symbol resembles the elven crosshatch design.
Hey, everybody, I found Madrar!
I think I may have done a bad thing by getting her to try Crusader Kings II... 
She's going by Madrarrr now. For some reason I find this very funny.
I think I heard one of the devs explain that, just in case the writers change their minds, they have the actors record lines for romances with both sexes while they have them in the studio anyway. Prevents them from a Freddy Prince Junior situation, where they called him back in to do the Bull's romance lines after Epler and company took care of the cinematic issues. Luckily, he wasn't immersed in another project in another country or something.
WoT has a section about the Fade and different races. Qunari claim they don't dream, whether or not this is true or simply because it's forbidden by the Qun is up in the air. Apparently Qunari are rarely found in the Fade, and that's used to support the idea. Although it's funny that the Qun could simply outlaw dreaming and expect it to be enforced. That dreaming is forbidden at all is odd. If it's another remnant of an old order, it makes a little more sense.
I think the Old Gods/Archdemons are probably shapeshifted elven gods rather than possessed dragons, but I agree the properties of dragons and their blood are likely why they were bred into the Qunari, whether they were originally elves or otherwise. Whether the Kossith and/or Qunari were bred for the exact same purposes given by the Qun is another thing...
Speaking of purpose, which is kinda big with Qunari, the Dalish concept of Sulevin, "purpose" still nags at me at how familiar it sounds. The Cradle of Sulevin was also where I noticed for the first time how similar the Qunari crosshatch symbol resembles the elven crosshatch design.
Sten, along with Morrigan, recognized that the Fade section in Origins was a dream, unlike Senior Enchanter Wynne or the dwarf Oghren. Maybe this is because the Qunari lack some sort of proper connection to the Fade, and he could see the actual green clouds and floating rubble, and was, "Oh, I read about this in Beresaad prep school. It's one of those 'dreams'."
Or it's because he's a smart cookie that's dreamed as much as you or me, and enters lucid dreaming when he recognizes his dead comrades. But, in defiance of Qunari teachings, he clings to it, because 'it's a good dream'.
The Saarebas are held in chains and have their tongues clipped and are executed if not within sight of their Arvaraad because the Qunari are so paranoid about demons speaking to them from the Fade and influencing them. How could they fear demonic possession if they don't have a connection to the Fade?
(HOW DID THAT DEMON POSSESS THAT ANCIENT DWARF PRINCE BACK IN THE CALLING? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!)
Which brings up another interesting thing. The Qunari are obviously terrified of magic. I can't help but think of it like the alcoholic couple's children drinking only water, or me using real butter. I'm willing to bet that the kossith are some kind of magocracy, or have a demon problem. Koslun and successors went far, far the other way to ensure they didn't repeat their parents' mistakes.
Which had to be great when they landed in Thedas and discovered a less powerful magocracy that they could stomp on.
Italy and France eh? Don't suppose any of you are watching the rugby?
Spoiler
I have almost zero interest for any sports involving the use of a ball bigger than my own fist, apart maybe from Volleyball. Sorry to disappoint :x
Why hello there... *o*
Looks like Patrick Weekes is on board with the glitter. SO LICK IT LADIES. LIKE A LOLLIPOP.
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