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[OxidantsHappen]

Well, I don't think I've ever been online for any of the fights except for the earliest NSFW scuffle I'm aware of. So I'm used to personifying the burning pizza-delivery GIF.  It's a nice surprise. Live the Dream.

And then a wild Oxie appeared!  I'd throw out a chemistry pun to welcome you back with, but I've been reduced to some pretty terrible ones lately. 

 

CADDIUS! Fellow nerd!

I see what you did there. That's ok, my chemistry puns have been pretty basic lately too.  Midterms will do that to a girl. 

 

I'm afraid I do not follow. How can you do a personality test without knowing someone's true personality?

Oxidants:I have a smooth endoplasmic reticulum but know that I like it rough, if you know what I mean. I missed you x10000.

 

I know exactly what you mean, that just means we just need more ribosomes.  I missed you x Avogadro's number 

[Addai]

Nope, you misunderstand. We were not, nor are we, of one mind or another; because I have no opinion on what Solas is. I do not even care. I could probably go through half of the profiles and relate them to Solas. My issue is only your and Addai's claim to know it all without a doubt, nothing more than that. 

Well since I never made such a claim at all, this is indeed rather ridiculous, isn't it?

 

As for your analysis, it doesn't account for what's different between INTP and INTJ. That's why when we debated it in the other thread, the disagreement focused on whether he was Ni or Ne and so on. All very esoteric stuff if you're not into MBTI, which you're apparently not, so- peace out.

[Oswin]

 

Solas' are just not the full truth, and you never learn about them.

 

Yet.

 

 

 

When it comes to the whole being Fen'Harel thing, I don't count Solas as a liar. Because, y'know, you never asked if he was Fen'Harel so he never technically lied about it, he just, um, didn't bring it up.

 

Lavellan: "Why didn't you tell me?"

Solas: "You never asked."

Lavellan:

[Cee]

He has excellent reasons for lying. Which is why I can call him a lying liar mcliarpants and still love him to bits. 

 

This and I think because he is so careful not to just directly lie lie lie most of the time, I think it makes it easier to love him because of how possible it is to understand his situation and the sadness going on. The devs hit us over the head with 100 different hints but some of us didn't quite put it all together by the end, or not until very close, but I think the lack of straight out lies helps me, personally, to not feel betrayed. It puts his entire presence into perspective.

 

and given how much the entire experience opened my Lavellan's mind by the end, I'd say she would also be able to eventually forgive and  understand after recovering from the initial shock and asking questions.

 

you know, if he hadn't broken her heart and told her as he intended.

[nikki-tikki]

Well since I never made such a claim at all, this is indeed rather ridiculous, isn't it?

 

As for your analysis, it doesn't account for what's different between INTP and INTJ. That's why when we debated it in the other thread, the disagreement focused on whether he was Ni or Ne and so on. All very esoteric stuff if you're not into MBTI, which you're apparently not, so- peace out.

 

 

Exactly. You are certain that you were wrong yesterday and are right now.

 

 

If you want to go there now, you might make that happen.

 

 

Hey at least this is on topic, yes? That's what people wanted.

 

Only thing wrong with this is people need to chill some, all around.

 

 

Can't speak for addai but you mistake my confidence in my assessment for knowing it all... I can't possibly know it all if I openly admitted I was wrong in what to me was the closer classification And if that is the issue, it seems you might've taken things a bit personally too, no?

 

 

Anyway, that's enough of all that. We'll just be restating things in circles over and over and over.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

Lying by omission.

Noble Lie.

Misleading and dissembling.

Half truth.

Economical with the truth.

Deflecting.

I'm very much on the 'Solas lied a lot' view of things.

EDIT: I don't have the hang-ups on the word liar that others do. If I did, I might be in the 'misleading isn't quite lying' view, just to avoid painting Solas with the Brush of Implications. As it is, he lied, he misdirected. He enjoys trickster figures in literature for a reason.

 

 

Pretending to be something, or someone you're not, is lying.

 

 

[Caddius]

CADDIUS! Fellow nerd!

I see what you did there. That's ok, my chemistry puns have been pretty basic lately too.  Midterms will do that to a girl. 

 

 

I know exactly what you mean, that just means we just need more ribosomes.  I missed you x Avogadro's number 

I think the main purpose of a well-rounded education is so that you can recognize all the potential puns.

I figured either strenuous academics or someone taking the 'barium' jokes too far as the reason for your absence. 

[Maria13]

 

WAT????????

[Dark_Rogue]

This and I think because he is so careful not to just directly lie lie lie most of the time, I think it makes it easier to love him because of how possible it is to understand his situation and the sadness going on. The devs hit us over the head with 100 different hints but some of us didn't quite put it all together by the end, or not until very close, but I think the lack of straight out lies helps me, personally, to not feel betrayed. It puts his entire presence into perspective.

 

and given how much the entire experience opened my Lavellan's mind by the end, I'd say she would also be able to eventually forgive and  understand after recovering from the initial shock and asking questions.

 

you know, if he hadn't broken her heart and told her as he intended.

This.  I'm sure a romanced Lavellan can understand his reasoning and listen to his perspective, since she has done all up until that point.

 

Then he just buckles and backs out, which makes everything worse.  I'm curious to know why he actually did throw a curve ball at the end and not tell Lavellan who/what he really was, did he think she wouldn't believe him? Did he not want whatever he was planning to come back to her? Relationship insecurity?

[Maria13]

I think the main purpose of a well-rounded education is so that you can recognize all the potential puns.

I figured either strenuous academics or someone taking the 'barium' jokes too far as the reason for your absence. 

 

Oh and know all the ways in which to, ummmmmm.... Misrepresent   

 

Without actually lying... Verb tenses can be extremely helpful.

[Colonelkillabee]

Exactly. You are certain that you were wrong yesterday and are right now.

 

 

If you want to go there now, you might make that happen.

I'm just saying    Lol.

 

Anyway, I've said my piece. I for one enjoyed this all, lol. More lively than it's been in a few days.

 

 

Yet.

 

 

 

When it comes to the whole being Fen'Harel thing, I don't count Solas as a liar. Because, y'know, you never asked if he was Fen'Harel so he never technically lied about it, he just, um, didn't bring it up.

Oho, that uh, would not hold up with most people. Depends on what we're talking about though.

 

But if not an outright liar, he is deceiving and misleading.

[Maria13]

This.  I'm sure a romanced Lavellan can understand his reasoning and listen to his perspective, since she has done all up until that point.

 

Then he just buckles and backs out, which makes everything worse.  I'm curious to know why he actually did throw a curve ball at the end and not tell Lavellan who/what he really was, did he think she wouldn't believe him? Did he not want whatever he was planning to come back to her? Relationship insecurity?

 

Protecting her?

 

This is a distinct possibility.

[nikki-tikki]

WAT????????

 

[Caddius]

This.  I'm sure a romanced Lavellan can understand his reasoning and listen to his perspective, since she has done all up until that point.

 

Then he just buckles and backs out, which makes everything worse.  I'm curious to know why he actually did throw a curve ball at the end and not tell Lavellan who/what he really was, did he think she wouldn't believe him? Did he not want whatever he was planning to come back to her? Relationship insecurity?

According to the Patrick Weekes interview, he was ready to tell Lavellan everything, but he panicked and talked about the vallaslin, and as they kiss he's ready to give up on his plans and stay with her. As he pulls back, the truth of how much risk she puts his plans in hits him like a cold Stonefist to the feelz when he already has Brittle Effect going on or something, and so he shuts her down and decides to retreat as far as possible to prevent either of them from hurting more than necessary while still maintaining the Hull Integrity of his Plan That Probably Won't Doom Everything.

I swear, I intended that sentence to be poetic at first. 

[Avejajed]

It might be the lack of food but I don't get it.

I still love you tho.

[nikki-tikki]

It might be the lack of food but I don't get it.

I still love you tho.

 

I don't even know. My brain right now. 

[Siha]

This and I think because he is so careful not to just directly lie lie lie most of the time, I think it makes it easier to love him because of how possible it is to understand his situation and the sadness going on. 

 

Would you find it harder to love him if he "lied" more obviously, like by denying to be an ancient elf? His situation and reasons would be the same after all. Would it make so much of a difference if only he spoke out the lie instead of just hiding the truth?

For example, I never had an actual issue with Blackwall's explicit lies. Because it makes sense that he lied. He wanted to help, he wanted to fight the greater evil, but he knew the Inquisition would not take him in if he told the truth. Hence he lied to me. I find that a natural reaction and I understand his reasons, so I accept this. I have a problem with what he did (ordering killings for money), but the lying itself is not my big issue.

Same with Solas. I question his plan in the first place, giving away the orb and stuff. And I am angry at him for keeping knowledge away that could have saved lives (e.g., leading us to Skyhold before an assault on Haven). But him "lying" about who he was? I understand that, I have no problem with that. 

[Colonelkillabee]

I think the main purpose of a well-rounded education is so that you can recognize all the potential puns.

I figured either strenuous academics or someone taking the 'barium' jokes too far as the reason for your absence. 

Barium was always my favorite element because it's BA. *Badum tsss*

[Dark_Rogue]

According to the Patrick Weekes interview, he was ready to tell Lavellan everything, but he panicked and talked about the vallaslin, and as they kiss he's ready to give up on his plans and stay with her. As he pulls back, the truth of how much risk she puts his plans in hits him like a cold Stonefist to the feelz when he already has Brittle Effect going on or something, and so he shuts her down and decides to retreat as far as possible to prevent either of them from hurting more than necessary while still maintaining the Hull Integrity of his Plan That Probably Won't Doom Everything.

I swear, I intended that sentence to be poetic at first. 

That part made me chuckle "It probably won't doom everything...Probably." xD

 

I read the Weekes interview but it's always nice to hear other theories and opinions on it. Protecting seems like the basic concept, being "Cruel to be Kind."

 

This is the second time an elf romance has left my Hero...I don't like having my feels messed with, BW! (Unless they're well-written...then goddamn, I love to hate you guys  )

[Meer]

One thing I think it's important to remember as regards any character is that, to be a good one, they must have a decent mixture of positive and negative traits. When a character is reduced to nothing but the good or bad, they become nothing but boring (especially to discuss). However, Solas is wonderfully nuanced character and this is why so many of us return to the topic of him more often than not. What I'm trying to get at is that the man can be a liar and still be a good person and that should be discussed, though it is a subject that the thread has touched on many times before. I don't think it's a bad topic or something meant to get anyone's ire up, unless it's obviously handled with such explicit intent.

I would personally call what Solas does lying, because when you willfully withhold the truth you aren't telling it. The word "liar" takes on a negative connotation only when the lies are malicious, however; the intent of a lie is often more important than the words themselves. And of course, the omissions Solas makes are not meant maliciously, though we must admit some of them are dangerous.

[Cee]

According to the Patrick Weekes interview, he was ready to tell Lavellan everything, but he panicked and talked about the vallaslin, and as they kiss he's ready to give up on his plans and stay with her. As he pulls back, the truth of how much risk she puts his plans in hits him like a cold Stonefist to the feelz when he already has Brittle Effect going on or something, and so he shuts her down and decides to retreat as far as possible to prevent either of them from hurting more than necessary while still maintaining the Hull Integrity of his Plan That Probably Won't Doom Everything.

I swear, I intended that sentence to be poetic at first. 

 

This, and it's entirely possible he's also afraid that she would want to help him.

 

She does distract him from what he considers his duty. But unexpectedly finding himself in love and even  to the point of considering staying? After this long and what he indirectly caused? It's all terrifying to him in the saddest ways. Whatever his plan actually is. He came close to blinking and losing his focus. He wants but he pulls back. This for a man whose greatest fear is dying alone, and yet he holds people at a certain distance and has stayed alone, in part out of necessity.

 

The many layers to the character and all this potential, which I struggle to explain to those who've never romanced him and how much impact all of that, even with just a few scenes, adds a certain sadness and weight to the entire game.

[Caddius]

Would you find it harder to love him if he "lied" more obviously, like by denying to be an ancient elf? His situation and reasons would be the same after all. Would it make so much of a difference if only he spoke out the lie instead of just hiding the truth?

For example, I never had an actual issue with Blackwall's explicit lies. Because it makes sense that he lied. He wanted to help, he wanted to fight the greater evil, but he knew the Inquisition would not take him in if he told the truth. Hence he lied to me. I find that a natural reaction and I understand his reasons, so I accept this. I have a problem with what he did (ordering killings for money), but the lying itself is not my big issue.

Same with Solas. I question his plan in the first place, giving away the orb and stuff. And I am angry at him for keeping knowledge away that could have saved lives (e.g., leading us to Skyhold before an assault on Haven). But him "lying" about who he was? I understand that, I have no problem with that. 

I think likewise. (I have finally run out of likes for the day, as vengeance for the near rebellion with the emoticons. )

What's funny is that the only reason I'd have to be angry with Blackwall about lying is the potential devastation that could be caused by relying on him to slay the Archdemon, or sense darkspawn, or bribe the Architect with his blood to get a movie date. But Blackwall doesn't know about any of that. 

It's hard to blame Solas for Haven and Skyhold because he didn't seem to know that Corypheus had an army. At that point, I don't think he even knew Corypheus had survived, did he? He probably doesn't feel like handing out awesome climate defying fortresses to every quasi-military-heretical organization he runs into, after all. (Still would have been nice to, y'know, have a defensible position. Adan died for your sins, Fen'harel.  ) But hey, the mountain slopes and trebuchets became as much of a force multiplier as the walls would have been. 

I always wished we could have left Skyhold and explored the surrounding area, particularly the village that Blackwall's carving statues for. Military followers, the bulk of the Inquisition's army, and a lovely looking environment.

Back on topic, the main difference between Solas lying bald-headedly and lying carefully with only the occasional direct falsehood is:

Blatant Lies, post-epilogue: You lying bastard!

Omission Lies, post-epilogue: You clever lying bastard!

One takes more skill and consideration.

What is the exact limit on emoticons, anyhow? 

[OxidantsHappen]

I think the main purpose of a well-rounded education is so that you can recognize all the potential puns.

I figured either strenuous academics or someone taking the 'barium' jokes too far as the reason for your absence. 

 

Caddius you must thinking outside the 1-D box, because your pun potential is limitless.

 

And no one should take barium lightly. (Get it?Bbecause barium is taken to view the GI tract and causes really bad.... nevermind.)

[Avejajed]

I have no problems with Solas lying. My problems are when people don't consider what he did lying to begin with. I mean honestly, if my boyfriend didn't tell me he was an axe murderer and his argument was that I didn't ask him specifically if he was an axe murderer....

[Armdin]

Can we get another chart please, Chart Maker? (I forgot who makes them, I wanna say Avejajed but I don't know if that's right.)

 

Something along the lines of "Solas is a lying liar who lies" > "No he's not a liar lemme tell you why" > "Lemme bring up the definition of liar from Wiki". Feel free to add more you notice. I've seen this topic crop up a few times, I think it warrants a chart. :>

[Dark_Rogue]

This, and it's entirely possible he's also afraid that she would want to help him.

 

She does distract him from what he considers his duty. But unexpectedly finding himself in love and even  to the point of considering staying? After this long and what he indirectly caused? It's all terrifying to him in the saddest ways. Whatever his plan actually is. He came close to blinking and losing his focus. He wants but he pulls back. This for a man whose greatest fear is dying alone, and yet he holds people at a certain distance and has stayed alone, in part out of necessity.

 

The many layers to the character and all this potential, which I struggle to explain to those who've never romanced him and how much impact all of that, even with just a few scenes, adds a certain sadness and weight to the entire game.

I never considered the possibility of Lavellan helping Solas...that's an interesting point.  Your little collective summary made my heart hurt, y u do dis? T^T

 

Also the Fade section was super cool for the companion fears, first playthrough had me think "Aw Solas, that's a common fear..." then after it was like "Ack, feels...I can't!"

 

I'm glad they added him in as a romance, he's such an interesting character, giving him an extra edge with a tragic love story is just another notch to the bow...uh, I mean staff.

Modifié par Dark_Rogue, 14 mars 2015 - 08:34 .