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[Cee]

Would you find it harder to love him if he "lied" more obviously, like by denying to be an ancient elf? His situation and reasons would be the same after all. Would it make so much of a difference if only he spoke out the lie instead of just hiding the truth?

For example, I never had an actual issue with Blackwall's explicit lies. Because it makes sense that he lied. He wanted to help, he wanted to fight the greater evil, but he knew the Inquisition would not take him in if he told the truth. Hence he lied to me. I find that a natural reaction and I understand his reasons, so I accept this. I have a problem with what he did (ordering killings for money), but the lying itself is not my big issue.

Same with Solas. I question his plan in the first place, giving away the orb and stuff. And I am angry at him for keeping knowledge away that could have saved lives (e.g., leading us to Skyhold before an assault on Haven). But him "lying" about who he was? I understand that, I have no problem with that. 

 

 

I think it would've changed some of the tone and the feeling afterward if he were just a direct liar instead of a mix of what appears to be a lot of genuine, yet carefully communicated and obscured personality, with some degree of lies. In the case of Blackwall, I understand that too, though I pretty much had him figured out. I think sending him to the Wardens was satisfying and it fulfilled his desire and the original Blackwall's wish for him anyway. If he actually survives a Joining....we'll see.

 

In any case, what I'm talking about is more nuances and slight tone shifts. If Solas were just outright lying instead of being careful to obscure things (which ultimately results in the truth being hidden in any case), it would feel more like a betrayal.

[Caddius]

Caddius you must thinking outside the 1-D box, because your pun potential is limitless.

 

And no one should take barium lightly. (Get it?Bbecause barium is taken to view the GI tract and causes really bad.... nevermind.)

There's a fine line between your puns that I do get and the ones I don't. The barrier of having done poorly in my one Chemistry High School class, and relying on him occasionally commenting on a friend's re-posting of a Tumblr "How does this even?" science post.

The Science Department at my school was also known as the Comedy Club. Apparently in the Teacher's Lounge they all sat next to each other punning and driving everyone nuts, except for the mathematics teacher who would still be giggling as he headed to his next class.

The History Department had the most hilariously different teachers I've ever seen. 

Oh, Colonel, you've mentioned you're planning on becoming a teacher. A teacher of what, may I ask? 

[Oswin]

 

Oho, that uh, would not hold up with most people. Depends on what we're talking about though.

 

So that's why my friend always gets so mad at me.

 

 

I don't tell people anything. Then I don't understand why they get annoyed I didn't tell them. If it doesn't naturally come up in conversation then I won't find a way to make it do so.

 

I don't do people skills.

 

Oh gawd, this is probably why I'm not mad at Solas. I would so do the same.

[Siha]

I think likewise. (I have finally run out of likes for the day, as vengeance for the near rebellion with the emoticons. )

...

It's hard to blame Solas for Haven and Skyhold because he didn't seem to know that Corypheus had an army. At that point, I don't think he even knew Corypheus had survived, did he? He probably doesn't feel like handing out awesome climate defying fortresses to every quasi-military-heretical organization he runs into, after all. (Still would have been nice to, y'know, have a defensible position. Adan died for your sins, Fen'harel.  ) But hey, the mountain slopes and trebuchets became as much of a force multiplier as the walls would have been. 

 

...

 

What is the exact limit on emoticons, anyhow? 

 

If you count the hearts I sent Oxi, that's the maximum amount of acceptable emoticons here.

And I like how you basically mention every single aspect of a situation you are talking about, leaving nothing open to still be discussed...

After getting to Skyhol, everybody (including Vivienne) points out how obviously indefensible Haven had been and how we should not have stayed there. Solas must have known too and could have helped. If anything at all, this could be my issue with his "lying", nothing else. That's what I meant. But as long as neither Cullen, nor Leliana or the inquisitor see the weakness in Haven's defenses, I surely won't blame him.

 

I have no problems with Solas lying. My problems are when people don't consider what he did lying to begin with. I mean honestly, if my boyfriend didn't tell me he was an axe murderer and his argument was that I didn't ask him specifically if he was an axe murderer....

 

Two things made me laugh today despite the overall situation and hunger. Those two things were IT Crowd and this. Sad thing is, both happened at the same time.

[Colonelkillabee]

So that's why my friend always gets so mad at me.

 

 

I don't tell people anything. Then I don't understand why they get annoyed I didn't tell them. If it doesn't naturally come up in conversation then I won't find a way to make it do so.

 

I don't do people skills.

 

Oh gawd, this is probably why I'm not mad at Solas. I would so do the same.

I'm somewhat similar. I just take a while to tell people things because it seems unnatural to tell things about me unless it's relevant. Otherwise it seems awkward or whiny maybe.

[Kestrel]

Has this been thrown up here yet:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

From Vhenan Trash cause awesome. 

 

 

Haha oh yes. There was a glorious photoshop battle a few days ago, and this was one of the results of it. 

[drake2511]

Protecting her?

 

This is a distinct possibility.

Yeah, I know it is, but if he actually says something like that, my Lavellan is going to laugh right in his face. She's not exactly powerless, you know.
Yes, yes, the threat that's coming is probably something we've never seen, something like elven gods or whatever, but she's mature enough to decide for herself if she wants to get involved or not.

 

I know it's supposed to be romantic, but I just find it selfish.

It doesn't upset me that he lied (directly or not), but everytime we lie to someone we love, it's because we want to, not because the other person asked us. That doesn't make sense lol. I just mean that whatever good reason he had, it's still not 100% okay.

 

But there is a difference between lying openly and just omitting things: in real life, I wouldn't trust a word coming from Blackwall's mouth after I discovered the truth, since he made up things to cover what really happened. With Solas, I would just be more suspicious, but I would trust him more.
It's fiction anyway, and I love the fact that he has flaws, Solas is a tragic character after all. It's one of the reasons why I like him (apart from FRECKLES - I can hear the eyerolls, guys. But freckles are good).

[Armdin]

Has this been thrown up here yet:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

From Vhenan Trash cause awesome. 

 

Maker's balls quit taking yourselves so seriously. Wubs

 

Holy ****!... M-my eyes! *jabs thumbs into them Caleb style* On the bright side, two eyepatches! Yay!

[Dark_Rogue]

Has this been thrown up here yet:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

From Vhenan Trash cause awesome. 

 

Maker's balls quit taking yourselves so seriously. Wubs

You...I like you  this made me laugh so hard xD

[Colonelkillabee]

There's a fine line between your puns that I do get and the ones I don't. The barrier of having done poorly in my one Chemistry High School class, and relying on him occasionally commenting on a friend's re-posting of a Tumblr "How does this even?" science post.

The Science Department at my school was also known as the Comedy Club. Apparently in the Teacher's Lounge they all sat next to each other punning and driving everyone nuts, except for the mathematics teacher who would still be giggling as he headed to his next class.

The History Department had the most hilariously different teachers I've ever seen. 

Oh, Colonel, you've mentioned you're planning on becoming a teacher. A teacher of what, may I ask? 

 

I'm good at math, so that's my fallback plan, but I think I'd prefer being an english teacher. Poetry and songs are my thing, and I write on my spare time, so it seems appropriate Also like reading (not as much lately admittedly) and analyzing characters and stories.

 

Going for the sixth grade level, probably at the highest. Highschoolers are... highschoolers.

[Caddius]

If you count the hearts I sent Oxi, that's the maximum amount of acceptable emoticons here.

And I like how you basically mention every single aspect of a situation you are talking about, leaving nothing open to still be discussed...

After getting to Skyhold, everybody (including Vivienne) points out how obviously indefensible Haven had been and how we should not have stayed there. Solas must have known too and could have helped. If anything at all, this could be my issue with his "lying", nothing else. That's what I meant. But as long as neither Cullen, nor Leliana or the inquisitor see the weakness in Haven's defenses, I surely won't blame him.

 

 

Two things made me laugh today despite the overall situation and hunger. Those two things were IT Crowd and this. Sad thing is, both happened at the same time.

Well, the thoughts occur to me as I'm writing, y'know? 

 

Oswin, I have the same problem.   It's actually genetic. When my father was in middle school, they moved to a new city in California. Everyone, and I mean even the dogs, HATED it there. But they didn't mention how much they hated it, because that would be too forward of them. My grandmother turned down multiple job opportunities, thinking that the kids loved school there. It was only ten years later they were talking about it, when one of my aunts cracked finally, saying, "Y'know, that was the single worst period of my life. That was a terrible town. Do you know how hard it is to hear the math homework over the meth deals going on?" and then everyone was venting a decade's worth of hatred for that city at once. 

[Caddius]

I'm good at math, so that's my fallback plan, but I think I'd prefer being an english teacher. Poetry and songs are my thing, and I write on my spare time, so it seems appropriate Also like reading (not as much lately admittedly) and analyzing characters and stories.

 

Going for the sixth grade level, probably at the highest. Highschoolers are... highschoolers.

History and English myself, High School level. You could discreetly slip your Lavellan raps to Dragon Age players in the classroom. 

I get the feeling you'd be a good teacher, honestly. And just from personal experience, it's nice being a male student with a decent male teacher, so that your male influences in life aren't restricted to: Dad, Batman, the hatchet-faced gym teacher who is more skeletal and evil than Skeletor, and the annoying kids who won't stop harassing the girls in the classroom. 

[MTC]

Has this been thrown up here yet:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

From Vhenan Trash cause awesome. 

 

Maker's balls quit taking yourselves so seriously. Wubs

See, this just makes me think that Solas knows how to live the life. Like, who doesn't want to sit in front of the Fade all day, and eat hot pockets? 

 

My evening plans, right here.

[zambixi]

Yeah, I know it is, but if he actually says something like that, my Lavellan is going to laugh right in his face. She's not exactly powerless, you know.
Yes, yes, the threat that's coming is probably something we've never seen, something like elven gods or whatever, but she's mature enough to decide for herself if she wants to get involved or not.

 

I know it's supposed to be romantic, but I just find it selfish.

It doesn't uspet me that he lied (directly or not), but everytime we lie to someone we love, it's because we want to, not because the other person asked us. That doesn't make sense lol. I just mean that whatever good reason he had, it's still not 100% okay.

 

But there is a difference between lying openly and just omitting things: in real life, I wouldn't trust a word coming from Blackwall's mouth after I discovered the truth, since he made up things to cover what really happened. With Solas, I would just be more suspicious, but I would trust him more.
It's fiction anyway, and I love the fact that he has flaws, Solas is a tragic character after all. It's one of the reasons why I like him (apart from FRECKLES - I can hear the eyerolls, guys. But freckles are good).

 

If Solas is lying to protect Lavellan (which I hope he isn't, because I hate that trope), then I hope it's at least because she really would be in Danger. As in, she lacks some crucial magical ability that would protect her in whatever situation he is getting into. Even though Solas denies being a god, apparently there is some sort of something-special he and Flemythal have, and maybe that confers some protection from...something...? Clearly Solas can be corrupted by red lyrium, but maybe he has like +5 resistance to Fade or something, I dunno.

 

It's gonna be total BS if he's like, "I wanted to protect you from these scarey elvhen gods" when we just killed a false-god and his pet dragon a few months ago. And leaving Lavellan unsupervised with her magic hand in a world of shemlen that want to kill any elf with any amount of power is not exactly leaving her in a "safe" environment anyway.

 

And..I agree regarding Blackwall v. Solas. I took Blackwall's lies more personally. The intent seemed to be different? I'm not sure how to articulate it. Though someone did point out earlier (thousands of pages ago), that it might be easier to stomach Solas' transgressions because they're further removed from our normal real-world experiences and thus seemingly less heinous. Even though in reality they resulted in a much larger loss of life. I wish I could remember where that was posted because it was a pretty good argument.

[Colonelkillabee]

History and English myself, High School level. You could discreetly slip your Lavellan raps to Dragon Age players in the classroom. 

I get the feeling you'd be a good teacher, honestly. And just from personal experience, it's nice being a male student with a decent male teacher, so that your male influences in life aren't restricted to: Dad, Batman, the hatchet-faced gym teacher who is more skeletal and evil than Skeletor, and the annoying kids who won't stop harassing the girls in the classroom. 

Aww thanks man I have my occasional doubts so I appreciate that, very much so. I actually missed that you were going for teaching too. But I can see why easily.

 

Lol you're very passionate That is good, it's terrible to have teachers that hate their jobs. What a waste.

[RoraM]

[Caddius]

Aww thanks man I have my occasional doubts so I appreciate that, very much so. I actually missed that you were going for teaching too. But I can see why easily.

 

Lol you're very passionate That is good, it's terrible to have teachers that hate their jobs. What a waste.

I may have been gunning for being a history teacher since the third grade. Those poor classmates never knew there was so much to that Alexander the Great guy. 

I have this theory that a lot of the teachers that hated teaching and hated their students that influenced decades of sadistic teachers in stories in America are people dodging the Vietnam Draft that didn't want to waste that college degree money and be revealed as a draft-dodger, so they stuck to the same job they were miserable in until the hatred crystallized. I've had the entire breadth of teachers myself so far, from giant nerds that delight in their subject and will happily teach away to a guy who played the radio and talked about the song's historical relevance for five minutes and then handed out worksheets every class because he couldn't stand talking about history in any more depth than that. 

[Armdin]

If Solas is lying to protect Lavellan (which I hope he isn't, because I hate that trope), then I hope it's at least because she really would be in Danger. As in, she lacks some crucial magical ability that would protect her in whatever situation he is getting into. Even though Solas denies being a god, apparently there is some sort of something-special he and Flemythal have, and maybe that confers some protection from...something...? Clearly Solas can be corrupted by red lyrium, but maybe he has like +5 resistance to Fade or something, I dunno.

 

It's gonna be total BS if he's like, "I wanted to protect you from these scarey elvhen gods" when we just killed a false-god and his pet dragon a few months ago. And leaving Lavellan unsupervised with her magic hand in a world of shemlen that want to kill any elf with any amount of power is not exactly leaving her in a "safe" environment anyway.

 

And..I agree regarding Blackwall v. Solas. I took Blackwall's lies more personally. The intent seemed to be different? I'm not sure how to articulate it. Though someone did point out earlier (thousands of pages ago), that it might be easier to stomach Solas' transgressions because they're further removed from our normal real-world experiences and thus seemingly less heinous. Even though in reality they resulted in a much larger loss of life. I wish I could remember where that was posted because it was a pretty good argument.

 

I'm hoping that's the case as well. Flemythal is a powerful being, and she hinted at something much bigger in the playing field. Inquisition showed us gaining our strength and crippling Corypheus, so by the end of it we were at our strongest while Corypheus lost pretty much everything, and if whatever it is Solas is protecting Lavellan from is stronger than the Inquisition is presently, then it won't be so bad, I'll forgive him then. I think my Lavellan will forgive him regardless though, she doesn't let a lot of people close, but when she does she has a stupid amount of loyalty towards them, and she's a sap for love. Silly girl. x)

 

Solas's lies are easier to stomach, for me, because:

  A. We don't know the full extent of what Solas has done or what he's going to do.

  B. Blackwall's lie was entirely to protect himself and his selfish deeds.

 

Edit for B. turning into smiley.

[Caddius]

 

Solas's lies are easier to stomach, for me, because:

  A) We don't know the full extent of what Solas has done or what he's going to do.

  Blackwall's lie was entirely to protect himself and his selfish deeds.

And to allow himself to help rather than being executed. I think Blackwall is miserable and sees living on and helping others whatever the cost to himself as his penance for his selfish deeds. *shrug* I've been getting a more nuanced view of Blackwall from my previous one, lately, thanks to some thoughtful posts by other forum-members. And Cole.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.

[RynJ]

To throw into this argument:

 

Solas is a liar. An interesting sort of liar, because there's only a couple times where he straight up lies to your face. Other times he tells the truth, just not the specific truth and you don't get the option to question him about it. When he does have to boldface lie, that's when he disapproves.

 

However, I find it hard to get high and mighty "he shouldn't have done that, that's BAD" about it, considering what he's lying about. As far as we know, he has very, very good reasons to not be open about the truth. As much as some people insist that their Inquisitors would be fine with the truth, Solas has no reason to think that's true, especially regarding a Lavellan Inquisitor and the Fen'Harel thing. I think people think about this too much in the terms of their Inquisitor and their feelings and that influences them.

 

Solas coming out and admitting he's the Dread Wolf would do him absolutely no good, not to mention it probably would distract the Inquisition from focusing on Corypheus, which is dangerous. It also would probably put a monkey wrench in whatever Solas is planning, which Solas clearly thinks is important and crucial and right. So from his perspective, he's protecting himself and the very thing he's fighting for. You know , the thing he's willing to throw away everything for and even face his greatest fear coming true. All of that comes before being truthful to Lavellan, even when he really, really wants to be. And it's ultimately why he breaks it off.

 

And I think maybe why people get more up in arms about Blackwall's lie is that there's less at stake and it's 1000x less of a dramatic, dangerous secret that he's hiding. However, I think people are way too harsh on Blackwall in general. Blackwall isn't my favorite character and, in my opinion, one of the more ill-fitting DAI companions but I have some sympathy for him. And speaking of comparing Solas and Blackwall, I think even Solas sees something of himself in Blackwall. Thus the lashing out and the later apology.

[Armdin]

And to allow himself to help rather than being executed. I think Blackwall is miserable and sees living on and helping others whatever the cost to himself as his penance for his selfish deeds. *shrug* I've been getting a more nuanced view of Blackwall from my previous one, lately, thanks to some thoughtful posts by other forum-members. And Cole.

 

Oh yes, and I remember a discussion here a couple of months back that opened my eyes more to his character, and actually made me feel guilty for leaving him behind to swing in my canon playthrough. x) He redeems himself somewhat by finally bringing everything into light and, as you say, using the new persona to help others and try to live up to the Grey Warden ideal he had in his head, but the fact remains he did the deed in the first place, and that's not something I'll be able to entirely forgive.

 

I've gotten the full DA collection on PC recently, finally separating my account from my partner's (which I was using for my canon PT), so I have a whole new canon canon PT to get through (almost done with DA2), so we'll see what my girl does when it comes to it... But I suspect she'll be judging him herself and feeding him to the Grey Wardens.

[Caddius]

This is who I am romancing in game now guys. IT'S THE ONLY HEALTHY STABLE OPTION. All of my other waifus and husbandos are liars, cheats, spies, masqueraders, frauds, racist grandpas, cookie supremacists, slave owners, and child murderers. Did I miss anything? Oh, that's right. Straight and don't bat for my team. And that's wrong too!

Only gorilla man understands me. He is the perfect, flawless black knight love interest I've always wanted.


On Topic: Solas. He's a dude. With elf ears. And problems. 

Good choice.

...cookie supremacists?