153447 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria13]

Yeah, I know it is, but if he actually says something like that, my Lavellan is going to laugh right in his face. She's not exactly powerless, you know.
Yes, yes, the threat that's coming is probably something we've never seen, something like elven gods or whatever, but she's mature enough to decide for herself if she wants to get involved or not.

 

I know it's supposed to be romantic, but I just find it selfish.

It doesn't upset me that he lied (directly or not), but everytime we lie to someone we love, it's because we want to, not because the other person asked us. That doesn't make sense lol. I just mean that whatever good reason he had, it's still not 100% okay.

 

But there is a difference between lying openly and just omitting things: in real life, I wouldn't trust a word coming from Blackwall's mouth after I discovered the truth, since he made up things to cover what really happened. With Solas, I would just be more suspicious, but I would trust him more.
It's fiction anyway, and I love the fact that he has flaws, Solas is a tragic character after all. It's one of the reasons why I like him (apart from FRECKLES - I can hear the eyerolls, guys. But freckles are good).

 

But she's not a thousand + years old demi god either, is she? She may be resourceful and talented but she can't presume to be in the same league on any issue...

 

I mean it's like a toddler saying "I'll help you mum..." Well yes, darling just go back to your tea...

 

I agree on the freckles...

[tsunamitigerdragon]

I never thought I would agree with Sera about anything but ... CHOCOLATE CHIP > oatmeal raisin ....

You clearly haven't had the RIGHT oatmeal raisin. Though to be honest, my favorite cookie is the chocolate chip peanut butter oatmeal cookie. With craisins. If I'm feeling SUPER adventurous and want to create a bigger abomination in the kitchen.

[Avejajed]

But you see that's not lying... It's simply not making a full frank and upfront disclosure...

By this definition "Don't ask, don't tell" would be lying... It isn't.

Let me ask you a serious question .

Would you teach this to your children?

Also, you guys can **** right off with your cookie conversation. Some of us are hungry.

[Janic99]

Another song I might use for Solas Vid! XD Tell me what sounds good

[BoscoBread]

Let me ask you a serious question .

Would you teach this to your children?

Also, you guys can **** right off with your cookie conversation. Some of us are hungry

EDIT - kinda big 

Spoiler

[Caddius]

But you see that's not lying... It's simply not making a full frank and upfront disclosure...

 

By this definition "Don't ask, don't tell" would be lying... It isn't.

If you're referring to the former US Military policy of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', I'll go ahead and use an example from that, if you don't mind, to explain how I define lying. I don't expect it to change anyone's minds, but hopefully it'll illustrate what vapid points I make about Solas's truthiness. 

'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' was an attempt to have homosexuals work in the military while ignoring that they were gay. This was a step up from the previous witch hunt attitude, but it was still sub-par.

Let's have a guy. Let's call him Rainy Tom. Rainy Tom likes men, and he also likes the idea of being an Army soldier. If he went into the Army and didn't discuss his sexual preference or make allusions to any romantic encounters of his, then he would be omitting that he's gay, but he wouldn't be lying. He does nothing to make people think that he's straight or gay or anything. It simply isn't discussed.

If Rainy Tom instead made carefully placed references to how heterosexual he is, gently flirts with the occasional girl, and avoids casting any admiring glances to Corporal Adonis, and writes letters to a special girl back home (his sister) without elaborating any further because 'privacy', then his being gay would be a lie of omission, as well as misdirection. An entirely sympathetic one, adding an extra layer of security to his job, but it's still a lie.

Solas makes effort to come across as a beagured apostate who came to the Conclave because he was interested in the Mage-Templar conflict as an apostate hobbo, not as an ancient elven god desperately trying to prevent his artifact from being misused. As the Inquisition makes it a main goal to discover the identity of who destroyed the Conclave, and how, he does not answer their questions, and offers carefully coached suggestions that prove to be true. Again, he has my sympathies, and I don't judge him harshly for his lies. But I still see them as lies.  

[Maria13]

Let me ask you a serious question .

Would you teach this to your children?

Also, you guys can **** right off with your cookie conversation. Some of us are hungry.

 

Allow me to dodge that one... I don't have kids.

[Avejajed]

EDIT - kinda big

Spoiler

I thought you were one of the good guys. Oh how wrong I was.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

EDIT - kinda big 

Spoiler

ANDRASTE ONLY EATS OATMEAL RAISIN. YOU DIRTY PHILISTINES. 

[Avejajed]

Allow me to dodge that one... I don't have kids.

I don't either, but that's not why I asked the question.

[BoscoBread]

I thought you were one of the good guys. Oh how wrong I was.

When did I say I was good - 

 

Spoiler

[Elessara]

ANDRASTE ONLY EATS OATMEAL RAISIN. YOU DIRTY PHILISTINES. 

 

I bet Andraste loved all cookies and welcomed them all equally into the Maker's belly.

[Maria13]

I don't either, but that's not why I asked the question.

 

I know.

[Maria13]

Solas makes effort to come across as a beagured apostate who came to the Conclave because he was interested in the Mage-Templar conflict as an apostate hobbo, not as an ancient elven god desperately trying to prevent his artifact from being misused. As the Inquisition makes it a main goal to discover the identity of who destroyed the Conclave, and how, he does not answer their questions, and offers carefully coached suggestions that prove to be true. Again, he has my sympathies, and I don't judge him harshly for his lies. But I still see them as lies.  

 

We don't actually know how much effort he makes to come across as beleaguered apostate... In fact being what we presume him to be (I am being careful here...) he, like Morrie say, is actually a beleaguered apostate...

 

Because a) By being a non chantry mage, he's an apostate and By being in an oppressed minority he is beleaguered...

 

Do we know what the inquisition asked him? Do we know what he replied?

[Rhoxi]

But you see that's not lying... It's simply not making a full frank and upfront disclosure...

 

By this definition "Don't ask, don't tell" would be lying... It isn't.

 

I stand corrected. Many wonderful arguments, all around.

 

It depends upon your definition of lying by omission. To me, refusing to voluntarily divulge information which, in the context, should ordinarily be disclosed as relevant or vital information which the other person would reasonably consider important to learn and without sufficient justification for withholding--is lying. (At least, that's a working definition off the top of my head, that'll do for now.) In the case of "don't ask, don't tell," it's of no consequence to a stranger what my sexual orientation is. Now, if I ask them out to dinner and a movie, I should probably be straight forward about that, lest they misconstrue my intentions. I think we can all agree that we'd consider it important to learn that our significant other was an axe murderer and that, refusing to candidly admit that, would probably be a lie by omission. Or, you know, if they had an affair, to use a more common hypothetical. In your example of "don't ask, don't tell," I agree that it is not a lie, but a failure to make a full and upfront disclosure of non-relevant and perhaps very personal information.

 

And of course, part of the problem with my definition--and perhaps this entire line of conversation--is that what is a lie or not may be subjective to what the would-be receiver of the information finds important. Or what the listener would consider sufficient justification for failing to disclose. Or any number of other factors. Leading to the conclusion that perhaps there is no lie, no truth, no fixed reality, and THE CAKE IS A LIE AND-- *snaps out of it* Good lord, where did my brain just go?

 

Also, the hilarity of cookies, gorilla love, and Blackwall's smurf beard is just too much. Have all my likes. *throws likes at all the things*

[tsunamitigerdragon]

I bet Andraste loved all cookies and welcomed them all equally into the Maker's belly.

 

Those who oppose thee

Shall know the wrath of heaven.

Field and forest shall burn,

The seas shall rise and devour them,

The wind shall tear their nations

From the face of the earth,

Lightning shall rain down from the sky,

They shall cry out to their false gods,

And find silence.

 

-Andraste 7:19

CRY OUT TO YOUR FALSE GOD OF CHOCOLATE CHIP. There is but one Maker and ONE true Cookie.

[Rhoxi]

ANDRASTE ONLY EATS OATMEAL RAISIN. YOU DIRTY PHILISTINES. 

 

This is the greatest gif I have ever beheld. *stares in awe*

[Elessara]

We don't actually know how much effort he makes to come across as beleaguered apostate... In fact being what we presume him to be (I am being careful here...) he, like Morrie say, is actually a beleaguered apostate...

 

Because a) By being a non chantry mage, he's an apostate and By being in an oppressed minority he is beleaguered...

 

Do we know what the inquisition asked him? Do we know what he replied?

 

We know he was questioned but not the specific questions.  And Leliana said he was evasive but again we don't know what he answered exactly.  Other than that village he said he was from which turned out to be an ancient ruin.  But who knows maybe thousands of years ago there was an elven settlement right there and that's where Solas was actually from.

[Elessara]

 

Those who oppose thee

Shall know the wrath of heaven.

Field and forest shall burn,

The seas shall rise and devour them,

The wind shall tear their nations

From the face of the earth,

Lightning shall rain down from the sky,

They shall cry out to their false gods,

And find silence.

 

-Andraste 7:19

CRY OUT TO YOUR FALSE GOD OF CHOCOLATE CHIP. There is but one Maker and ONE true Cookie.

 

 

We don't know that Andraste actually said that.  That's from the Chant of Light which was written well after she died.  And if the Maker created everything then he created many different kinds of cookies and Andraste tells us that he loves them all.

[Siha]

It depends upon your definition of lying by omission. To me, refusing to voluntarily divulge information which, in the context, should ordinarily be disclosed as relevant or vital information which the other person would reasonably consider important to learn and without sufficient justification for withholding--is lying. In the case of "don't ask, don't tell," it's of no consequence to a stranger what my sexual orientation is. Now, if I ask them out to dinner and a movie, I should probably be straight forward about that, lest they misconstrue my intentions. I think we can all agree that we'd consider it important to learn that our significant other was an axe murderer and that, refusing to candidly admit that, would probably be a lie by omission. Or, you know, if they had an affair, to use a more common hypothetical. In your example of "don't ask, don't tell," I agree that it is not a lie, but a failure to make a full and upfront disclosure of non-relevant and perhaps very personal information.

 

You are aware that this amount of intelligent sentences in one place is really difficult to digest? I feel rather intimidated. But I am trying to aline with the smart people here (cool by association), so I must comment something to make it look like I operated on your level and actually contributed to this conversation. So, to relate this post to your statement at all, I must ask: what is your conclusion now; did Solas lie or not?

[tsunamitigerdragon]

We don't know that Andraste actually said that.  That's from the Chant of Light which was written well after she died.  And if the Maker created everything then he created many different kinds of cookies and Andraste tells us that he loves them all.

 

Maker, my enemies are abundant.

Many are those who rise up against me.

But my faith sustains me; I shall not fear the legion,

Should they set themselves against me.

 

-Trials 1:1

[zambixi]

You are aware that this amount of intelligent sentences in one place is really difficult to digest? I feel rather intimidated. But I am trying to aline with the smart people here (cool by association), so I must comment something to make it look like I operated on your level and actually contributed to this conversation. So, to relate this post to your statement at all, I must ask: what is your conclusion now; did Solas lie or not?

 

Solas lied, but lying (in only my opinion) is not always wrong. Whether or not Solas lying was wrong remains to be seen.

[Avejajed]

When did I say I was good -

Spoiler

You've really hit a new low.

[Caddius]

We don't actually know how much effort he makes to come across as beleaguered apostate... In fact being what we presume him to be (I am being careful here...) he, like Morrie say, is actually a beleaguered apostate...

 

Because a) By being a non chantry mage, he's an apostate and By being in an oppressed minority he is beleaguered...

 

Do we know what the inquisition asked him? Do we know what he replied?

http://dragonage.wik...ex_entry:_Solas

Basically walked in, surrendered weapons, told them he had studied magic on his own and that he specialized in the Fade, and that if they wanted a chance to save the world from the Breach, they should let him take a look at the prisoner.

The badassery and confidence of which is part of the reason why I have several Lavellans. 

He also has banter with Cassandra.

http://dragonage.wik.../Solas/Dialogue

Spoiler

Cassandra: I've wondered: How did you know to approach us, Solas?
Cassandra: The Breach opened, we were scrambling and barely had time to think... and there you were.
Solas: I went to see the Breach for myself. I did not know you would be there.
Cassandra: You must not have been far away.
Solas: I was not. I'd come to hear of the Conclave, but did not want to get close.
Cassandra: Hmm. Lucky for us, then.
Solas: Your abilities are remarkable, Seeker. It is fascinating to see how you and the templars negate magic.
Cassandra: Have you never encountered templars before?
Solas: Only at a distance. I am an apostate, after all.
Cassandra: And they never caught you even once?
Solas: I am a very careful apostate.

Dorian: Let me get this straight, Solas.
Dorian: You're an apostate - neither Dalish nor city elf - who lived alone in the woods studying spirits.
Solas: Is that a problem for you?
Dorian: No, no. You're a special and unique snowflake. Live the dream.

• Iron Bull: You've got an odd style, Solas. Your spells are a bit different from the Circle mages or the Vints.
• Solas: That comes from being self-taught.
• Solas: I discovered most magic on my own, or learned it from my journeys in the Fade.
• Iron Bull: I've seen self-taught warriors. Even the good ones have something awkward in their style, something that clunks.
• Iron Bull: I don't get that from you. Maybe magic is different.
• Solas: Or without magical training, you cannot notice the parts of my magic that "clunk".

Those are some of the dialogues where Solas comes very close to outright lies, and definitely lets them trip themselves up with their own pre-conceptions. (Anyone else reminded of Mouse's parting words? )

In particular, I enjoy the Iron Bull dialogues, especially since Dorian is openly admiring of Solas's skill with magic and Vivienne is grudgingly respectful.  Clunk, indeed.

I can see why people argue that he never outright lies. But I see Solas, outfit and everything, as being designed to pass under cursory inspection, and let them fill in the rest of the blanks themselves.

It's easy for him to come across as an apostate hobo because he is, technically speaking, an apostate. But he's so much more than that. Claiming his background as 'apostate elf', which is true, but not expanding on it, leads to the sort of misunderstanding that he's aiming for as camouflage. 

[zambixi]

When did I say I was good - 

 

Spoiler

 

Kindred spirit

 

Edit: Just realized those are the ones with the sausage or whatever on them. Ewww.... I am a cheese purist.