153441 réponses à ce sujet

[phaonica]

Yes, I thought DA2 was a refreshing change from the usual hero-saves-the-day story. I never had an issue with Hawke and the plot of DA2 (only with map recycling and such). I too loved it that Hawke failed. That one man/woman cannot prevent tragedy. I thought that was rather realistic. DA2 is a really dark depressing game. Much more so than DAO. I loved that companions had their own agenda and went through with it regardless of what you did. Sure, it's kind of frustrating. We WANT to sway people, make them agree with us. We want to feel like our way is the best way, the only right way to do things. DA2 was the closest to realism Bioware got.

It was an experiment that was not well received, sadly. People didn't just have issues with the rushed feel of the game (which was deserved criticism imo). Nobody liked playing a hero who couldn't stop the terrorist.

Now in DAI with Solas we have another Anders type of character with his own deceptive agenda. But Bioware learned from DA2 and made the betrayal happen before the inquisitor was around. In fact, quizzie is the shining hero again who actually FIXES Solas' screw-up. And also fixes the Hawke situation. Hawke failed to stop Anders, but the inquisitor is there to set things straight again, end the mage rebellion. All nice and tidy at the end of the game...

Whatever happens with Solas in the next game is probably not the inquisitor's concern anymore. At some point, one of the playable heroes will deal with him. And probably in a satisfying in-control way.

 

I think I would have liked DA2 more if it hadn't been so overwhelmingly on the negative side. I felt completely powerless all the time. I like when there are negative consequences, but I like when there are positive consequences, too. There needs to be a balance, for me.

[Armdin]

heheeh...cute Odme1 comic.  I still want a ball gown!!

http://odme1.deviant...ed-Up-520352277

 

I've gone off wanting to put my girl in a gown (she's siding with Cassandra and wants formal armor), but damn that comic is cute. xD

[MoonDrummer]

That's kind of the opposite of why I play games hehe.  I rather like being a hero and escaping grim reality.  So, losing not matter what just makes me go eh, I'll go play a game where I can actually accomplish something.  But I agree, there should be many options for a game to end.  Sad, happy ... there's no "right" way.  Well, for me the "right" way would be happy but for others it would not.  And both preferences should be represented as long as it fits the story.

I like playing the hero who does dickish things for the greater good, kinda thing. So I keep the anvil of the void, I kill the Werewolves, I kill Isolde etc. Whenever there is an option to get the best of both worlds, like brokering peace between Zathrian and Witherfang, I tend to ignore it. I don't like the Celene/Briala and soft Leliana Devine endings, its just too perfect for me. So I go for Gaspard/Briala and Crazy Leliana Devine instead.

 

I didn't like how Leliana decision was handled, that the cost of killing traitors is Leliana gunning nuns down like clay pigeons. 

[phaonica]

Cole is a spirit of compassion and Solas remarks how rare such spirits are... If Cole were allowed to kill the templar then that may impair his status and Solas would consider that a loss. As for Solas, I think he might consider himself to be above such things. 

 

Above what such things? Revenge? Regret?

[Elessara]

I like playing the hero who does dickish things for the greater good, kinda thing. So I keep the anvil of the void, I kill the Werewolves, I kill Isolde etc. Whenever there is an option to get the best of both worlds, like brokering peace between Zathrian and Witherfang, I tend to ignore it. I don't like the Celene/Briala and soft Leliana Devine endings, its just too perfect for me. So I go for Gaspard/Briala and Crazy Leliana Devine instead.

 

I didn't like how Leliana decision was handled, that the cost of killing traitors is Leliana gunning nuns down like clay pigeons. 

 

And that's fine.  The options are there and I like that.  I mean, I tend to play goody-two-shoes so obviously I prefer the best of both worlds solutions but I'm just as happy that other options exist for people who prefer other routes.  And if I choose a happy happy joy joy solution and something bad happens because of it later that's ok as well - as long as it fits the story and it's not "oh you did a good thing so we're going to punish you"  or "you're going to lose and everyone will die no matter what you do" reason.  Consequences for actions are good.  Losing no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try - is not good in my opinion.

[phaonica]

I like playing the hero who does dickish things for the greater good, kinda thing. So I keep the anvil of the void, I kill the Werewolves, I kill Isolde etc. Whenever there is an option to get the best of both worlds, like brokering peace between Zathrian and Witherfang, I tend to ignore it. I don't like the Celene/Briala and soft Leliana Devine endings, its just too perfect for me. So I go for Gaspard/Briala and Crazy Leliana Devine instead.

 

I didn't like how Leliana decision was handled, that the cost of killing traitors is Leliana gunning nuns down like clay pigeons. 

 

Is Leliana "gunning nuns" not also doing "dickish things for the greater good"?

[Armdin]

Off-topic question: Can anyone direct me to a forum or something in regards to mods? I can't seem to get the DAI Mod Manager to work at all (specifically http://www.nexusmods...ion/mods/242/?)and I've followed the written guide on nexusmods DAI_ModManager's page, and the video guide it links, and had my partner sit with me and watch me follow the guide as well, but I can't work out where I'm going wrong.

 

On-topic picture share to feed hungry, hungry mods:

 

Spoiler

http://sercarver.tum...desofthanekrios

I can't remember if I've shared this already. Many apologies if I have or someone else has.

[CapricornSun]

I finished DA2 for the first time last night and I loved it. D: I'm so glad I made Alistair king on my Origins run now, the thought of having to choose between him and my Hawke would be impossible now I have live context behind my Hawke. There's no way I could do that to either HoF or Fenris, and Stroud peeved me off so getting to leave him behind won't be a big deal at all. Satisfying, if anything.

 

I'm the opposite. DA2 disappointed me so badly the first time I ended it, mainly because after playing DAO I had very high expectations for it.

And Hawke p***** me off soooo much in DAI that in my m!Trevelyan playthrough where I made Alistair king and had Stroud, I nearly left Hawke in the Fade again but stopped myself because I wanted to have a different result from my canon PT. And I did like Stroud so it was actually a painful decision for me to leave him there. (I did mention how Hawke was my least favorite DA protagonist? xD)

 

Sorry about the rant. Even just talking about DA2 (or Hawke) pushes my buttons a bit. 

 

Have you tried the Happy Ending mod? Assuming you're on PC? I haven't looked it up for a while, and from what I remember it's a bit clunky and recycles past dialogue... but it's beautiful. *wipes tear* I'm seriously contemplating buying the ME series all over again so I can experience that mod and finally have my headcanon realized.

 

Spoiler

Basically it ends the game after Anderson dies, the Reapers are destroyed, Joker comes to pick you up, and the touching memorial scene is dedicated to Anderson.

 

 

Yes, I played the ME games on PC (well, my laptop but you get the idea xD) but I never tried using mods for any ME game. That mod looks interesting though. Maybe I'll give it a try one day. (Anything to fix the ending that ME3 gave us is a good thing IMO. )

[Kappa Neko]

The only game I've ever played that came close to a "we placed our chips in all the right spots and still lost" situation was Final Fantasy XIII-2. That was the most depressing game I've ever played.

Oh really? Now I'm actually curious! I never played it, only XIII. Too many bad memories of X-2...  XIII was basically a tech demo they made me pay money for. No cities, no exploration at all. Though the plot wasn't even that bad, plus I was pleasantly surprised about the awesome lesbian love story stealing the show. Mostly, I feel too old for JRPGs now *sigh* Snow was the most annoying game character ever. Worst romance for 12-year olds ever too. When I read XIII-2 would be about Serah, I thought no, thanks.

 

Would you recommend it to somebody who didn't really like XIII?

 

Sorry for being off-topic!

This was relevant because... uh... I'd rather have my Lavellan's broken heart than have a guy on a flying motorcycle propose to a girl he hadn't even kissed yet. What the hell, SquareEnix?!

 

[phaonica]

And that's fine.  The options are there and I like that.  I mean, I tend to play goody-two-shoes so obviously I prefer the best of both worlds solutions but I'm just as happy that other options exist for people who prefer other routes.  And if I choose a happy happy joy joy solution and something bad happens because of it later that's ok as well - as long as it fits the story and it's not "oh you did a good thing so we're going to punish you"  or "you're going to lose and everyone will die no matter what you do" reason.  Consequences for actions are good.  Losing no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try - is not good in my opinion.

 

I don't remember a situation off the top of my head in DA that has made me feel like I was inexplicably punished for doing the right thing. I remember things going wrong, or not as expected, but I don't remember ever feeling punished.

[MoonDrummer]

Is Leliana "gunning nuns" not also doing "dickish things for the greater good"?

Maybe, for the people she kills in the epilogue. But for the sister in the chantry, it just seems a bit like a personal grudge more than for the greater good. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Maybe, for the people she kills in the epilogue. But for the sister in the chantry, it just seems a bit like a personal grudge more than for the greater good. 

Does it matter though? She would have died eventually. Or been taken prisoner, eating your food, wasting air, resources.

[Maria13]

Above what such things? Revenge? Regret?

 

Yes, like that because he is used to making such decisions. Or that he is already so tainted by his past actions that in the long run it will make no difference. Or that it was merely a question of balancing the scales "cause and effect"...

[nikki-tikki]

I don't remember a situation off the top of my head in DA that has made me feel like I was inexplicably punished for doing the right thing. I remember things going wrong, or not as expected, but I don't remember ever feeling punished.

 

The only one that remotely comes to mind is killing Connor is DAO. Alistair bitched me out hardcore and I felt so bad. But I was just too lazy to go all the way to the circle and do their whole quest...

[Kappa Neko]

I think I would have liked DA2 more if it hadn't been so overwhelmingly on the negative side. I felt completely powerless all the time. I like when there are negative consequences, but I like when there are positive consequences, too. There needs to be a balance, for me.

I like DA2 as an experiment. I have no issues with it from a narrative point of view. But as a game, such powerlessness frustrates people. And I can see why. I certainly wouldn't want to play such games all the time. I do like it when I can change things for the better, make everyone happy. I just wish games would make you work harder for it and not make it so obvious what you have to do to achieve the best possible outcome. You could fly Mass Effect on auto-pilot, just picking upper right all the time and it worked out best for everyone 99% of the time.

I'd like to see more ambiguous choices. Or choices that hurt people no matter what you pick, just in different ways. So which one can you live with better? It doesn't have to end in total defeat. I'm just a bit tired of the flawless hero who saves the day without any sense of struggle or opposition. And very often without showing any emotional reaction to their decisions. No fear, no doubt, no regret. Bioware games are trying a bit. Could be done in much more complex ways, though.

 

[Rhoxi]

I fear you are right.

I liked the everybody loses ending in DA2. It was not enough, but I liked being helpless. I liked that no matter what I had done, everything would end up in ruins. I would have liked it to go much further, actually. A complete "we placed our chips in all the right spots and still lost" situation.

 

THIS. So much like. DA:2 will always have a special place in my heart for its courage to explore tragedy and moral ambiguity. It isn't a story about good vs. evil, black vs. white. It's about competing social, ethical, religious, and political ideologies. People you love will die. Every love interest has their own special brand of screwed up-edness. You cannot make two sides of a conflict get along. You are not some special hero who can save the day and fix everything.

 

Yes, I thought DA2 was a refreshing change from the usual hero-saves-the-day story. I never had an issue with Hawke and the plot of DA2 (only with map recycling and such). I too loved it that Hawke failed. That one man/woman cannot prevent tragedy. I thought that was rather realistic. DA2 is a really dark depressing game. Much more so than DAO. I loved that companions had their own agenda and went through with it regardless of what you did. Sure, it's kind of frustrating. We WANT to sway people, make them agree with us. We want to feel like our way is the best way, the only right way to do things. DA2 was the closest to realism Bioware got.

It was an experiment that was not well received, sadly. People didn't just have issues with the rushed feel of the game (which was deserved criticism imo). Nobody liked playing a hero who couldn't stop the terrorist.

Now in DAI with Solas we have another Anders type of character with his own deceptive agenda. But Bioware learned from DA2 and made the betrayal happen before the inquisitor was around. In fact, quizzie is the shining hero again who actually FIXES Solas' screw-up. And also fixes the Hawke situation. Hawke failed to stop Anders, but the inquisitor is there to set things straight again, end foster the mage rebellion. All nice and tidy at the end of the game...

Whatever happens with Solas in the next game is probably not the inquisitor's concern anymore. At some point, one of the playable heroes will deal with him. And probably in a satisfying in-control way.

 

Fixed it for you.    For freedom!

[Colonelkillabee]

The only one that remotely comes to mind is killing Connor is DAO. Alistair bitched me out hardcore and I felt so bad. But I was just too lazy to go all the way to the circle and do their whole quest...

That was one of my favorite quests Love the fade.

[Siha]

Does it matter though? She would have died eventually. Or been taken prisoner, eating your food, wasting air, resources.

 

I think it matters, because Leliana isn't better off this way, it doesn't make her a better person. She killed that woman out of vengeance and not because of an economic assessment. So it does matter regarding her character.

[Cee]

Cole is a spirit of compassion and Solas remarks how rare such spirits are... If Cole were allowed to kill the templar then that may impair his status and Solas would consider that a loss. As for Solas, I think he might consider himself to be above such things. 

 

I don't think above such things is the right feeling, but he might feel that it's justified and he gives it no more thought, as others have suggested. Or he might figure Cole is pure but Solas has much on himself already so this one more thing doesn't weigh much. He has blood and more on his hands already. Cole kills only when necessary now. Such a thing would corrupt and ruin Cole. It would not do so to Solas, who already feels a great burden caused by his actions.
 

[Armdin]

I'm the opposite. DA2 disappointed me so badly the first time I ended it, mainly because after playing DAO I had very high expectations for it.

And Hawke p***** me off soooo much in DAI that in my m!Trevelyan playthrough where I made Alistair king and had Stroud, I nearly left Hawke in the Fade again but stopped myself because I wanted to have a different result from my canon PT. And I did like Stroud so it was actually a painful decision for me to leave him there. (I did mention how Hawke was my least favorite DA protagonist? xD)

 

Sorry about the rant. Even just talking about DA2 (or Hawke) pushes my buttons a bit. 

 

Yes, I played the ME games on PC (well, my laptop but you get the idea xD) but I never tried using mods for any ME game. That mod looks interesting though. Maybe I'll give it a try one day. (Anything to fix the ending that ME3 gave us is a good thing IMO. )

 

Nono, please rant, I want to talk about it.

 

I remember all of the complaints about DA2 and, to be honest, the majority of them are completely valid. I had those exact complaints when I was watching my partner play it on release.

 

I think I enjoy it immensely now because DA:O hasn't aged well, the gameplay was an uphill struggle the whole time. Only the story kept me engaged, and even then because my partner is like me and plays games to death, I could almost perfectly reiterate certain dialogues to the letter and tone as I reached them. By the time I came to Awakening (which I'd never seen), I was done with it, and I can't see myself going back to it.

 

DA2, on the other, had quite fun gameplay, and I'd forgotten a lot of the story (since my partner only played it once). And while the recycled maps is a completely valid complaint (seriously, BioWare, what were you thinking?) they were always short, and I was done with them before I got frustrated with them. I love the companions, whereas before I hated/didn't care about them at all except Merrill, and Sarcastic Hawke kept me laughing the whole time. Fenris' romance was amazing (those goddamn puppy eyes!) I even enjoyed the final fight with Orsino and Meredith, it was silly and ridiculous but I love it. xD

Mainly though, I think DA2 is largely forgivable to me because I know what happens next. I don't have to sit there and go "Is this all we have until the next one comes out?" I consider myself fortunate in that regards that I don't have to sit there and stew on it, I can move along with the story and not get too bogged down by its faults. Maybe I'll find more issues with it as I do more playthroughs, but for now I loved it. x)

 

On-topic: I think Solas would consider Merrill a fool for doing what she did with the mirror, and I think he'd disapprove of Ander's methods.

[Nilan the Fennec]

heheeh...cute Odme1 comic.  I still want a ball gown!!

http://odme1.deviant...ed-Up-520352277

 

I wanted to post it, but you were faster

 

  Thank you!

[Colonelkillabee]

I think it matters, because Leliana isn't better off this way, it doesn't make her a better person. She killed that woman out of vengeance and not because of an economic assessment. So it does matter regarding her character.

Subjective. I think making her tougher is better for her. Losing that idealism.

[Elessara]

I don't remember a situation off the top of my head in DA that has made me feel like I was inexplicably punished for doing the right thing. I remember things going wrong, or not as expected, but I don't remember ever feeling punished.

 

Oh, sorry I didn't mean that had actually happened, I should have been more clear.  But I mentioned it because, from past reading of old threads for ME, some people (mostly those who preferred renegade options) wanted those who chose paragon options to be punished for choosing paragon options.  Having something like that happen would not sit well with me.  It was just something that I remembered when I was replying.

[Siha]

Subjective. I think making her tougher is better for her. Losing that idealism.

 

Idealism is important though. Losing it leaves her broken. It only serves the others.

[Armdin]

Subjective. I think making her tougher is better for her. Losing that idealism.

 

I'm not sure I want to get into a debate about this, it's not something I've thought extensively on, but I thought idealism was good. So long as you act, you can turn those ideals into reality, which Leliana does if you soften her. She wants to see all Mages free and the Chantry open to everyone, and she does it. What the consequences of her ideals bring out, we'll have to see (well, not me, Cass is my Divine ).

 

Edit: I'm aware she does this even if you harden her, but from what I know she becomes quite violent with those who oppose it? I can only see that ending badly for her.