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[Meer]

Ghilan'nain I'm still on the fence about, but Sylaise sounds like the kind of god who would fix you a cup of tea, or perhaps cocoa with lots of teeny-tiny marshmallows floating in it, and feed you sandwiches with the crusts cut off by the fireside.  I could easily worship a god like that.

As out of control as the Pantheon seems to have been, and the fact that they were all locked away (not just Falon'Din or Andruil), I think there is a good chance Sylaise might have been the type of goddess to demand sacrificial pyres.

Spoiler

[Yanagi_Uxinta]

I'm far from catching up to this thread, but I'm in the middle of reading The Masked Empire, and a line in it stood out to me. Spoilers ahead for the book/possibly Inquisition:

 

Spoiler

'And it was easy enough to ignore her and bask in the beauty of the paths, now that she was used to it, to listen to the subtle song that called to her with each step.' This is during the walk through the eluvians/crossroads, a place filled with ancient elven magic. Is this just Weekes being poetic, or does this have a link to the other times a 'song' is mentioned in lore, such as the Taint/Calling?

 

Just thought it was curious, and might be a new line of discussion for the theory people. Or you may have all dissected this hundreds of pages ago and I didn't see it

[Maria13]

I've been thinking about this too. Maybe he's on a mission to stop something really evil and that's why he seems to be in a hurry, but...

if he was almost willing to abandon his mission to be with Lavellan, it can't be anything that serious. Or can it? In my opinion, he wouldn't even think about giving up saving the world, even if it would be for love.

 

This would be my preferred option... Maybe someone should make a poll...

[Dark_Rogue]

I know, especially Falon'Din.  I don't think anyone can put a positive spin on "the blood of those who wouldn't bow low filled lakes as wide as oceans".   There's a reason Fen'Harel imprisoned but did not kill Falon'Din:  "One does not lightly kill a god, Inquisitor.  Even in legend."  Now, June, I wouldn't mind, as I'm all about the crafting.  Dirthamen, only if he promised not to try to free his twin Falon'Din, but, then again, I don't know if I would trust him to keep that promise.  So, perhaps ixnay on the od-gay of ecrets-say.  As for Andruil, she sounds all kinds of crazy and perhaps would be best left where she is.  Ditto for Elgar'nan.  Ghilan'nain I'm still on the fence about, but Sylaise sounds like the kind of god who would fix you a cup of tea, or perhaps cocoa with lots of teeny-tiny marshmallows floating in it, and feed you sandwiches with the crusts cut off by the fireside.  I could easily worship a god like that.

I could get in on that one, Sylaise strikes me as a grandmotherly type.

 

I get the feeling that the freeing of the gods could possibly end in a three-way fight: "Good Gods" e.g. Sylaise, June(?), Ghilan'nain. "Bad Gods" Falon'Din, Dirthamen, Elgar'nan and then Forgotten Ones.

 

Or the entire Pantheon could just be self-absorbed asses and my mind is being weird, don't mind me... *goes to find more pics of Solas* 

[laurelinvanyar]

But did Solas break it off to "protect" Lavellan? That's the cliche crap you usually see that's supposed to be all noble and romantic, but what I took away from it was that he couldn't bring himself to tell her the truth for whatever reason - and then couldn't continue on with her while being dishonest. It was his choice to make, so good for him... but I don't get the "I left you to protect you" crap. He left her to stay true to himself and his goals.

Personally, I think he broke it off to protect himself. Solas is almost constantly projecting his issues on other people. Look at Cole's quest, look at his interactions with Blackwall after he finds out about Rainier, especially take a look at that line "I'm distracting you from your duty". He loves Lavellan a lot (I don't think anybody can dispute that after the PW interview) but he's worried about her reaction to his true identity. Would Lavellan trust him with anything after learning who he is? Would she try to stop him from completing his goals (whatever they are) just based on the fact that he is Fen'Harel? Would she even believe him at all?

 

As to why a Lavellan would help him...

The Dalish and city elves are going nowhere fast. They're hunted for sport by nobles, have no legal recourse, and either live in hiding in the woods or just above slavery in alienages. A Lavellan may or may not have just had her whole clan wiped out by a shem noble. The gods might be cruel tyrants and slavers, but Lavellan might see them caring for elves more than current human rulers. After all, Gaspard cares nothing for elves and Celene might just sacrifice another alienage to defend her standing in the game again. King Alistair (sorry bae) doesn't give the Dalish the land he promised and the Bann of the Alienage is killed. If Solas can convince her that releasing the gods will help her people (I personally don't believe that is his goal, but that's another issue), I can definitely see some Lavellans agreeing to help him. 

[NightSymphony]

I remember saying this months and months ago. Solas is not Spiderman.  Or did I say he was:  I dunno..it was a long time ago.

[Uirebhiril]

Yeah, this is definitely more along what I mean. It isn't that he doesn't think Lavellan is strong, its more like: "Do I really want someone I love to come with me on this one way trip off a cliff?" 

 

That always seems a bit self-absorbed to me. "Well, of COURSE she loves me SO MUCH she'll want to come too! I can't let her do that, there's too much pain." Some Lavellans would. Others would probably be all, "Look honey, I love you and stuff, but I got a life and people here I'm responsible for. Write me if you can, I'll miss you. XOXO."

 

Which I guess is why they gave the option to go through the eluvian with Morrigan in Witch Hunt if you romanced her, but also the option to just up and say "good luck" otherwise.

 

I dunno. Just the idea that it's a "protection" thing is irritating, not because it removes Lavellan's agency in the matter or makes her seem weak, but because what we know suggests it's less about that and more about Solas and his overall goals. It kind of obfuscates him and the decisions he makes and turns it into overly-dramatic romance cliche. I guess to me... it's just more complicated than that?

[Solas]

idk about Ghilan'nain in order to be made a god she killed almost all of the creatures she created :S

[RoraM]

As out of control as the Pantheon seems to have been, and the fact that they were all locked away (not just Falon'Din or Andruil), I think there is a good chance Sylaise might have been the type of goddess to demand sacrificial pyres.

 

And now I am imagining the ancient Elvhen toasting marshmallows on Sylaise's sacrificial pyres...

[Dark_Rogue]

@laurelinvanyar

 

You reminded me of something with that line. Am I the only one who was super confused on how sudden that was? It's like, sweet Fade walk, the whole vallislin talk, the kiss and then "I'm distracting you from your duty. It won't happen again."

 

Am I oblivious, or did I expect that to be just an apologetic comment and not a prelude to a breakup? The only time I realised he was breaking it off was when the dialogue wheel gave the options, I expected a "Don't worry about it." but then it's like "Don't leave meh!  " I was super confused...

[laurelinvanyar]

yeah...I can't get on the "Sylaise as sweet granny" train take a look at her codex:

 

http://dragonage.wik...Song_to_Sylaise

 

Sounds like somebody has envy issues. 

 

@Meer you know how much I love the idea of her burning slaves Melisandre style.

[Maria13]

As out of control as the Pantheon seems to have been, and the fact that they were all locked away (not just Falon'Din or Andruil), I think there is a good chance Sylaise might have been the type of goddess to demand sacrificial pyres.

Spoiler

 

I suspect it might have been impossible for him to separate the wheat from the chaff... I.e. Ghilly would have wanted to remain with or tipped off Andy so Ghilly had to be confined too... Perhaps that's what makes him feels so bad...

[laurelinvanyar]

@laurelinvanyar

 

You reminded me of something with that line. Am I the only one who was super confused on how sudden that was? It's like, sweet Fade walk, the whole vallislin talk, the kiss and then "I'm distracting you from your duty. It won't happen again."

 

Am I oblivious, or did I expect that to be just an apologetic comment and not a prelude to a breakup? The only time I realised he was breaking it off was when the dialogue wheel gave the options, I expected a "Don't worry about it." but then it's like "Don't leave meh!  " I was super confused...

There's an interview with PW in which he told us that Solas never planned on breaking up at that moment. He was going to come clean about the whole Fen'Harel thing, but then chickened out. That's why his change in mood is so abrupt. He was probably going from "I'm going to tell her, I love her so much" to "Holy crap, I can't do this abort ABORT!"

[Kestrel]

I could be using so many different Arrested Development GIFs just for Solas. 

[Dark_Rogue]

 

There's an interview with PW in which he told us that Solas never planned on breaking up at that moment. He was going to come clean about the whole Fen'Harel thing, but then chickened out. That's why his change in mood is so abrupt. He was probably going from "I'm going to tell her, I love her so much" to "Holy crap, I can't do this abort ABORT!"

 

Again to the interview! xD

 

Fair enough then, I was playing it alongside a friend when I was over at his place so I was only half focusing on the scene, I was worried that I missed something.

[Mims]

That always seems a bit self-absorbed to me. "Well, of COURSE she loves me SO MUCH she'll want to come too! I can't let her do that, there's too much pain." Some Lavellans would. Others would probably be all, "Look honey, I love you and stuff, but I got a life and people here I'm responsible for. Write me if you can, I'll miss you. XOXO."

 

Which I guess is why they gave the option to go through the eluvian with Morrigan in Witch Hunt if you romanced her, but also the option to just up and say "good luck" otherwise.

 

I dunno. Just the idea that it's a "protection" thing is irritating, not because it removes Lavellan's agency in the matter or makes her seem weak, but because what we know suggests it's less about that and more about Solas and his overall goals. It kind of obfuscates him and the decisions he makes and turns it into overly-dramatic romance cliche. I guess to me... it's just more complicated than that?

 

As I said, he does the same thing to Cole. I don't see it as necessarily being a romantic based decision. Sure, some Lavellans and some Inquisitors might not want to help him. And that's totally fine. But it isn't about what she'd do, its about what he worries about. He doesn't want to carry more necessary deaths. That's not really cliche, its just 'human' nature. 

 

It is still very much about Solas and his goals. I don't see why not wanting to involve them would somehow detract from that? 

[Meer]

I suspect it might have been impossible for him to separate the wheat from the chaff... I.e. Ghilly would have wanted to remain with or tipped off Andy so Ghilly had to be confined too... Perhaps that's what makes him feels so bad...

May I ask what gives you that impression? The thing is, at the very least, each member of the Pantheon kept slaves (except perhaps Fen'Harel, whose place in it remains unclear). That alone is reprehensible, and something we know the current Solas despises. Of course, at the Temple of Mythal we heard a great deal more about Falon'Din and Andruil, but I don't think that exonerates the rest of them; it seems to me we've heard most about the ones we'll see/come into direct contact with. As regards Ghilan'nain, there is a great deal of codex evidence she might have been as frightening as some of the others. As op!Solas mentioned above, to rise to godhood, she massacred almost every creature she created, took lives she made in order to gain more power. And if I'm not wrong, "Pride stayed her hand," is a line we see during this destruction in the codices; perhaps Solas might have intervened in this.

My own impression is the guilt Solas feels is not that he locked these guys away, it's how much further the Elvhen have fallen even without them.

[RynJ]

May I ask what gives you that impression? The thing is, at the very least, each member of the Pantheon kept slaves (except perhaps Fen'Harel, whose place in it remains unclear). That alone is reprehensible, and something we know the current Solas despises. Of course, at the Temple of Mythal we heard a great deal more about Falon'Din and Andruil, but I don't think that exonerates the rest of them; it seems to me we've heard most about the ones we'll see/come into direct contact with. As regards Ghilan'nain, there is a great deal of codex evidence she might have been as frightening as some of the others. As op!Solas mentioned above, to rise to godhood, she massacred almost every creature she created, took lives she made in order to gain more power.

My own impression is the guilt Solas feels is not that he locked these guys away, it's how much further the Elvhen have fallen even without them.

 

I think he does feel guilty, based on a few conversations with Cole. However, just because Solas feels guilty about it doesn't mean he should. Food for thought.

[RoraM]

yeah...I can't get on the "Sylaise as sweet granny" train take a look at her codex:

 

http://dragonage.wik...Song_to_Sylaise

 

Sounds like somebody has envy issues. 

 

@Meer you know how much I love the idea of her burning slaves Melisandre style.

 

I love how the Dalish have such contradictory versions of Sylaise in the codex.  On the one hand, she preferred to occupy herself with "gentle arts and song", showing the People to heal with herbs and magic, then you get the Sylaisian propaganda song written by some ancient Elvhen hooligan thumbing his/her nose at the other gods in the Temple of Mythal.

[Uirebhiril]

As I said, he does the same thing to Cole. I don't see it as necessarily being a romantic based decision. Sure, some Lavellans and some Inquisitors might not want to help him. And that's totally fine. But it isn't about what she'd do, its about what he worries about. He doesn't want to carry more necessary deaths. That's not really cliche, its just 'human' nature. 

 

It is still very much about Solas and his goals. I don't see why not wanting to involve them would somehow detract from that? 

 

I agree, not wanting someone to experience pain and suffering is normal. What I mean by cliche is the automatic twisting of that to a "romantic" thing where he wants to "protect" Lavellan and that's why he leaves her. I just don't see that figuring quite so much into it as some seem to think it does. He's unable to bring himself to tell her the truth, and then wants to just give up on whatever to be with her - and only then realizes he'd be betraying himself. Either in regards to his goals, or himself as a person who does not want to lie and be dishonest to someone he is so deeply involved with. Keeping her from the lonely path he is walking is secondary to that at best.

[Solas]

yeah...I can't get on the "Sylaise as sweet granny" train take a look at her codex:

 

http://dragonage.wik...Song_to_Sylaise

 

Sounds like somebody has envy issues. 

 

@Meer you know how much I love the idea of her burning slaves Melisandre style.

that entry too! june is the only niceynice one left and thats only because hes so mysterious

 

coming soon: DA4 where it is revealed june started the blight

[Kestrel]

The blight was a mistaken craft project by June. He just wanted to make some creations ~prettier~ but oops... darkspawn. 

[Meer]

I think he does feel guilty, based on a few conversations with Cole. However, just because Solas feels guilty about it doesn't mean he should. Food for thought.

Perhaps I ought to have been more clear. What I referred to was not a question of guilt, but why the other person thought Fen'Harel could seal all or none of the gods. My argument was that I felt it wasn't guilt over sealing them all away (because it's highly likely they all deserved it) but that it was guilt over what happened to the Elvhen people after their gods were gone. I never intimated Solas didn't feel guilty, or should, or shouldn't.

[Maria13]

May I ask what gives you that impression? The thing is, at the very least, each member of the Pantheon kept slaves (except perhaps Fen'Harel, whose place in it remains unclear). That alone is reprehensible, and something we know the current Solas despises. Of course, at the Temple of Mythal we heard a great deal more about Falon'Din and Andruil, but I don't think that exonerates the rest of them; it seems to me we've heard most about the ones we'll see/come into direct contact with. As regards Ghilan'nain, there is a great deal of codex evidence she might have been as frightening as some of the others. As op!Solas mentioned above, to rise to godhood, she massacred almost every creature she created, took lives she made in order to gain more power. And if I'm not wrong, "Pride stayed her hand," is a line we see during this destruction in the codices; perhaps Solas might have intervened in this.

My own impression is the guilt Solas feels is not that he locked these guys away, it's how much further the Elvhen have fallen even without them.

 

It is just idle speculation... Ghilly seems somewhat more inoffensive than some of the others, from what we hear in the Codex more of a victim than a victimiser... As to her destroying her creations being an inherently evil act... We just don't know... Perhaps it is that they were simply never meant to be...

[Solas]

I think I'm in the "they were all dicks" camp tbh