Ooo - we can share Solas meta - here be mine - http://kissiebear.tu...oughts-on-solas
What I adore about your meta and others like it is that it takes an approach to analysis that is not firmly rooted in emotion. You take a real world example and tie it back to Solas without coloring your piece too much with headcanon, so instead of having a moment where I think, "This is just your opinion, not analysis," there's a really great "Ah!" sensation, where his motivations make more sense to me.
Whichever suits you best.
Alrighty, I'll PM you the download link when it's done uploading. 
This, the romance is the icing on the frilly cake...
But if I had to choose? I'd take the cake...
I'm the horrible type of person that eats an entire tub of icing. Don't get me wrong, I like cake too. But man... good icing is delicious.
But we're talking about Solas right? I think the romance does a good job of highlighting the most poignant aspects of his story. Without his tragic character, the romance wouldn't be as powerful. Without the romance, it would be more difficult to sympathize with him for many people. I don't personally find a friendship with him to be as...what's the word I'm looking for...fulfilling? Impactful?
I don't think Solas really grows over the course of DAI; he sees reasonable people as an exception to his views and not as evidence that he needs to alter his opinions. A friendship with him gets him a little closer to personal growth than say, being his enemy, but I think the romance gets him closer still.
That's the second time I've seen that video, I'm still impressed that the Inquisitor can cuss Solas out in Elven. I know a female Lavellan can as well, but it's a shame it never occurs in a happier dialogue. I find it adorable when they speak their own language to each other, it's like they are kindred spirits
I'm specifically referring to the line that comes when you choose the "Rely on friends" option at the end (about 45 seconds in).
Another good example of the sad elven language stuff is when he leaves you, if you get angry. It kind of breaks my heart what she says to him though, considering how obviously in love he is.
Edit: To be clear, this one: https://www.youtube....u85ALWi8Q#t=192
I LOVE THE ANGRY ELVEN CALLOUT so well done
I don't personally find a friendship with him to be as...what's the word I'm looking for...fulfilling? Impactful?
I don't think Solas really grows over the course of DAI; he sees reasonable people as an exception to his views and not as evidence that he needs to alter his opinions. A friendship with him gets him a little closer to personal growth than say, being his enemy, but I think the romance gets him closer still.
I dunno. I hope that a friendship is capable of having an impact on Solas just as much as a romance, but I think he's less likely to show it directly to the Inquisitor. It might manifest in his actions rather than his dialogue. So let's say in Wolf Hunt DLC, his actions are the same if he's got a positive relationship with the Inquisitor, but his dialogue is different if he's romanced.
I will admit that a lot of this is personal preference. The trope that a character develops more in a romance than a friendship drives me up the wall, and I didn't like contending with it in Mass Effect. Dragon Age has, by and large, been good about it with characters like Morrigan. Her dialogue is different in Inquisition if she romanced the Warden, but as long as the Warden took the time to know her and help her, she's significantly different from Origins. That IMO would be the best way of handling the friendship vs. the romance.
I dunno. I hope that a friendship is capable of having an impact on Solas just as much as a romance, but I think he's less likely to show it directly to the Inquisitor. It might manifest in his actions rather than his dialogue. So let's say in Wolf Hunt DLC, his actions are the same if he's got a positive relationship with the Inquisitor, but his dialogue is different if he's romanced.
I will admit that a lot of this is personal preference. The trope that a character develops more in a romance than a friendship drives me up the wall, and I didn't like contending with it in Mass Effect. Dragon Age has, by and large, been good about it with characters like Morrigan. Her dialogue is different in Inquisition if she romanced the Warden, but as long as the Warden took the time to know her and help her, she's significantly different from Origins. That IMO would be the best way of handling the friendship vs. the romance.
I'm out of likes, but I agree.
Also bonus unrelated video that is hilarious and keeps showing up in my suggestions.
I LOVE THE ANGRY ELVEN CALLOUT so well done
I plan on the angry path the second time around, but not that option. The shoving one that leaves him looking sad. Because I must maximize the pain.
I LOVE THE ANGRY ELVEN CALLOUT so well done
It's so...venomous, when I first saw it in a video I was like "Oh snap!"
But we're talking about Solas right? I think the romance does a good job of highlighting the most poignant aspects of his story. Without his tragic character, the romance wouldn't be as powerful. Without the romance, it would be more difficult to sympathize with him for many people. I don't personally find a friendship with him to be as...what's the word I'm looking for...fulfilling? Impactful?
See, I would argue the opposite. While you become emotionally closer to Solas by romancing him, the player seems taken further from his motivations and thought processes. To flirt with him, you often lose the ability to challenge his statements or to ask an important question; this is why so many are surprised when they play the game again without the romance and he almost seems a different character. It seems to me that the friendship and enemy options are even preferable if you want to learn the most about him as regards what he thinks. When you make him angry, for instance, he practically runs at the mouth and lets slip a lot he probably shouldn't.
The friendship/enemy paths give you what you need to understand him best and for many, that is enough to care. However, the romance does indeed give us a greater impetus to do so which was, of course, its intention. In the end, as someone said above, it's all about personal preference. Solas is just interesting, haha.
I dunno. I hope that a friendship is capable of having an impact on Solas just as much as a romance, but I think he's less likely to show it directly to the Inquisitor. It might manifest in his actions rather than his dialogue. So let's say in Wolf Hunt DLC, his actions are the same if he's got a positive relationship with the Inquisitor, but his dialogue is different if he's romanced.
I will admit that a lot of this is personal preference. The trope that a character develops more in a romance than a friendship drives me up the wall, and I didn't like contending with it in Mass Effect. Dragon Age has, by and large, been good about it with characters like Morrigan. Her dialogue is different in Inquisition if she romanced the Warden, but as long as the Warden took the time to know her and help her, she's significantly different from Origins. That IMO would be the best way of handling the friendship vs. the romance.
I didn't mean to comment on how Bioware should handle Solas' arc in the future, only how I felt playing DAI. I agree that friendship can affect a person just as much - if not more - than a romance can (e.g. Varric and Hawke), but that was not the impression I had when playing DAI. I don't personally find it unrealistic since I usually prioritize romantic relationships over friendships (and familial over both), but I agree that it can get very cliche very quickly if not handled well (and it usually isn't).
If I were to guess, I would agree that it's probably fairly likely that friendship and romance paths will be functionally the same in any future Solas encounters. There will probably be alternate dialogue for him if you're in a romance. If we're very, very lucky there will be an extended scene like we got in the first two romance interactions in DAI. I'd like to see something like what they did with Morrigan, where it is implied if not shown that her lover has significantly more interaction with her than the Warden (if he goes through the eluvian).
I'm the horrible type of person that eats an entire tub of icing. Don't get me wrong, I like cake too. But man... good icing is delicious.
But we're talking about Solas right? I think the romance does a good job of highlighting the most poignant aspects of his story. Without his tragic character, the romance wouldn't be as powerful. Without the romance, it would be more difficult to sympathize with him for many people. I don't personally find a friendship with him to be as...what's the word I'm looking for...fulfilling? Impactful?
I don't think Solas really grows over the course of DAI; he sees reasonable people as an exception to his views and not as evidence that he needs to alter his opinions. A friendship with him gets him a little closer to personal growth than say, being his enemy, but I think the romance gets him closer still.
It's not the romance isn't poignant. These aren't really mutually exclusive. It's the fact that the romance - which was confirmed by PW - was merely was put in place to underscore his loneliness. What I meant was that the discussion on Solas' character has really and been somewhat unfortunately dominated by his romantic relationship with lavellan - as if that was the most important part of his character. It reduces this incredibly well written and complex arc into a rote romance...just a bit. I was more interested in sort of looking at his viewpoint regarding "they are not MY people". This exists in ALL games. For ALL players. I was responding to the "Solas hates elves crowd and his view is problematic and gross af". Well...it's actually a bit more complicated and not "gross af" - this is my view at least.
I'm happy we have what we have. He's a good character AND you get the romance. But he' s not good because he's romanceable. He's good because of his other sad baggage.
EDIT: And this is not to make fun of or discredit peoples' "feels". It's just not what is interesting to me about his character.
I plan on the angry path the second time around, but not that option. The shoving one that leaves him looking sad. Because I must maximize the pain.
This one?
It's my favorite. His "I'm sorry" at the end is just... FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
I didn't mean to comment on how Bioware should handle Solas' arc in the future, only how I felt playing DAI. I agree that friendship can affect a person just as much - if not more - than a romance can (e.g. Varric and Hawke), but that was not the impression I had when playing DAI. I don't personally find it unrealistic since I usually prioritize romantic relationships over friendships (and familial over both), but I agree that it can get very cliche very quickly if not handled well (and it usually isn't).
We'll just agree to disagree, then 
The impression that I've gotten from doing Solas's friendship arc with mage Adaar is that it's just as interesting and important of a relationship as the romance, but in a different way. Adaar's better about challenging Solas's worldview directly, but Lavellan pulls him out of his lonely isolation and grounds him in the world.
This one?
It's my favorite. His "I'm sorry" at the end is just... FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
Yes, that one. I've watched them all and I think two of them feel 'best' to me and it's the straightforward I love you version (which I did the first time) and this one. MAX PAIN.
We'll just agree to disagree, then
This. I actually was more concerned and had more...uh..."feels"...when my friendmanced Lady Trev was like 'something is wrong' at the end. The concern in her voice is REAL. She cares. Also Cassandra. That freindship between Solas/Cass is SO important. To discredit it, is just sad and takes away from both the characters. Also the way Cassandra says "So-LAS" is the best.
See, I would argue the opposite. While you become emotionally closer to Solas by romancing him, the player seems taken further from his motivations and thought processes. To flirt with him, you often lose the ability to challenge his statements or to ask an important question; this is why so many are surprised when they play the game again without the romance and he almost seems a different character. It seems to me that the friendship and enemy options are even preferable if you want to learn the most about him as regards what he thinks. When you make him angry, for instance, he practically runs at the mouth and lets slip a lot he probably shouldn't.
The friendship/enemy paths give you what you need to understand him best and for many, that is enough to care. However, the romance does indeed give us a greater impetus to do so, which was, of course, it's intention. In the end, as someone said above, it's all about personal preference. Solas is just interesting, haha.
My understanding as a player is separate from his growth as a character. When I challenged him with other inquisitors, I rarely felt like I "won" the challenge. Does he slip up and reveal more about his character when you do not romance him? Absolutely. Do you learn more about him that way? Yes. I did not feel like friendship motivated Solas towards self-reflection in the same way that a romance did. He doesn't have the "is this really what I want to do" moment that happens during the vallaslin scene. He doesn't have that same moment of doubt where he considers abandoning his goals for something (well, someone) else.
I'm not saying the romance is objectively better though. I think it serves a different - and equally valid - purpose as the friendship.
Edit for clarity: Also... I tried to be clear in my initial post that feeling more emotionally invested in the romance is my personal feeling about it. I don't mean to say that feeling more emotionally invested in the friendship is "wrong".
My first Lavellan friended Solas, because I wanted to play her as a lesbian at first. I personally fell in love with Solas still, but she couldn't get in a romance with him anymore when that happened, so she carried on as being his very best friend while she was in a relationship with Sera. She felt VERY close to him, and I feel like their friendship was very meaningful and deep.
My second Lavellan romanced Solas, and felt these exact same feelings of meaningful & deep friendship towards Solas, but got a bit more insights because of some special scenes and dialogs, and had the privilege to kiss him and feel his booty.
I think friendship is NOT a lesser feeling than romance can be, and both can run very deep, and be very strong and moving. Both my Lavellans care deeply about Solas, and would want to save him, just they have different kinds of love for him, but both these types of love are strong, deep, meaningful and beautiful.
I agree completely with the friendship-romance connection. Its nice to have a few things saved for a romance playthrough, but your overall enjoyment of a character shouldn't depend on whether or not they are currently banging.
It doesn't necessarily need to be easy, but a friendship should have just as much of an impact.
Question to those who think Solas' plan does not involve unleashing the elven gods:
Who/what do you think "sleeps masked in the mirror, hiding, hurting"? I am super interested in other ideas and would love to hear what you think!
I agree completely with the friendship-romance connection. Its nice to have a few things saved for a romance playthrough, but your overall enjoyment of a character shouldn't depend on whether or not they are currently banging.
It doesn't necessarily need to be easy, but a friendship should have just as much of an impact.
Totally unrelated - which tea did you say had a lot of caffiene? I got my tea set - they are so cute but I will have to make Samson-level adjustments to Cullen's.
Also, friendship is amazing. Willow/Xander and the yellow crayon....did not save that terrible season. BUT STILL.
Yes, that one. I've watched them all and I think two of them feel 'best' to me and it's the straightforward I love you version (which I did the first time) and this one. MAX PAIN.
I love the angry one a lot. But now I remember, it's not my favorite, but a second close for sure. My favorite is "I believe in us", cause it's exactly what my Lavellan feels. She knows he has baggage and she knows that if he lets her in, she can help him. She's not giving up on him, not in a million years. And the I love you version would be third on my list.
It's not the romance isn't poignant. These aren't really mutually exclusive. It's the fact that the romance - which was confirmed by PW - was merely was put in place to underscore his loneliness. What I meant was that the discussion on Solas' character has really and been somewhat unfortunately dominated by his romantic relationship with lavellan - as if that was the most important part of his character. It reduces this incredibly well written and complex arc into a rote romance...just a bit. I was more interested in sort of looking at his viewpoint regarding "they are not MY people". This exists in ALL games. For ALL players. I was responding to the "Solas hates elves crowd and his view is problematic and gross af". Well...it's actually a bit more complicated and not "gross af" - this is my view at least.
I'm happy we have what we have. He's a good character AND you get the romance. But he' s not good because he's romanceable. He's good because of his other sad baggage.
EDIT: And this is not to make fun of or discredit peoples' "feels". It's just not what is interesting to me about his character.
Ahhh yessssss... was just talking about this to some other friends. Trying to figure out what exactly is Solas' definition of "the People" and whether that is cultural or something else (like if the modern elves are a functionally different race or something).
Do you think his intent is to help modern elves? Try to restore some hidden cells of ancient elves? Both? Neither?
It's a problem for me in the romance that if you pick the flirt options, it locks you out of asking him questions or challenging his ideas. IMO, it makes Lavellan look a little blinded by love. If you want to RP that way, great. For me personally, I wish there were a way to gently challenge his beliefs while still maintaining a respectful and loving dialogue.
You sort of get that during the second balcony scene, when he asks you if he has misjudged the Dalish. I always always always tell him that he has, even though the "No, I make my own decisions because I'm me, not Dalish" answer give approval.
I think to me a friendship playthrough allows an inquisitor to connect more deeply in on a philosophical level, while a romance is of course the more personal option.
Credit to Patrick Weekes though! He managed to make a character so complex that he's practically a different person depending on if you are love/friend/enemy.
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