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[Cee]

Question to those who think Solas' plan does not involve unleashing the elven gods:

 

Who/what do you think "sleeps masked in the mirror, hiding, hurting"? I am super interested in other ideas and would love to hear what you think!

 

 

I don't think he necessarily wants to just go and release them ASAP, thinking that will solve everything. He's aware some of his decisions have not been the best ones (and he is self-deprecating about that on a couple of occasions). The gods might be blighted, angry, something's clearly up. I think his plan probably has multiple steps, whatever it is. He also knows how they were before, which was why he did what he did. As Cole says "you did it to save them" - save the elves or perhaps save the unaffected gods too. Could mean both, if the gods were also warring.

 

And then there's this thing from the red lyrium in the Fade in Here Lies the Abyss

 

Spoiler

 

 

[RynJ]

It's funny because, since I haven't played other than my first and canon playthrough where I romanced Solas I can't say myself, but all I hear is complaints that Solas doesn't give a darn about you unless you're a female elf and you're romancing him. I'm glad to hear that some of you were taken with his friendship route because all I've seen is people scoffing at his relationship with their non-Solasmance Inquisitors.

 

I would argue against the statement that a romanced Lavellan doesn't challenge his worldviews, though. For example, I never really let him throw shade at me about the Dalish and that balcony conversation is an example of how you can basically tell him that yes, he was wrong. From how attached he is to a romanced Lavellan, she influences him in ways she doesn't even realize. In that it seems like through his relationship with her, he starts reconsidering modern Thedas and the "disappointment" that is its people. At least that's what I gleaned from certain lines and conversations with Cole.

[zambixi]

It's a problem for me in the romance that if you pick the flirt options, it locks you out of asking him questions or challenging his ideas. IMO, it makes Lavellan look a little blinded by love. If you want to RP that way, great. For me personally, I wish there were a way to gently challenge his beliefs while still maintaining a respectful and loving dialogue.

 

You sort of get that during the second balcony scene, when he asks you if he has misjudged the Dalish. I always always always tell him that he has, even though the "No, I make my own decisions because I'm me, not Dalish" answer give approval. 

 

I think to me a friendship playthrough allows an inquisitor to connect more deeply in on a philosophical level, while a romance is of course the more personal option.

 

Credit to Patrick Weekes though! He managed to make a character so complex that he's practically a different person depending on if you are love/friend/enemy.  

 

I have to headcanon that Lavellan has those sorts of conversations with him outside of the regular conversations because you're right -- the way it's setup does make it look like she's love-blind. I wonder if that is intentional or just a function of the programming?

 

There are a ton of things that a Lavellan (any Lavellan) should challenge or at least ask Solas about that just do not happen. Everything to do with Mythal. Why does he know elven fluently? How did he grow up as a mage in a village when everyone persecutes mages? How did he live as an elf in a village when everyone persecutes elves? What happened to the elves? On, and on, and on...

[BoscoBread]

Ahhh yessssss... was just talking about this to some other friends. Trying to figure out what exactly is Solas' definition of "the People" and whether that is cultural or something else (like if the modern elves are a functionally different race or something). 

 

Do you think his intent is to help modern elves? Try to restore some hidden cells of ancient elves? Both? Neither?

I think it's all elves.  I think he feels alone. They aren't his people.  They have NO concept of what they lost because the stories of Arthlathan have been twisted.  As he says to Sera "You are the furthest from what you are supposed to be". He finds NO kinship with them because they have NOTHING in common beyond how they look.  But I think more than that, I think he feels that he did them a massive disservice doing whatever he did.  He still has this sense of superiority about how great the ancient elves were in a lot of ways(not all ways but a lot).  "Oh lavellan - teh dalish did ONE thing right, they made you" "Oh human/adaar/dwarf/elf - you are unique among your shitty kind". 

 

So I think - whatever he is trying to do - is going to try to restore them to what they used to be.  As to being a different race - likely they changed physically over time to adapt to the hardship of their lives but I think it's more cultural than anything. TLDR: The People are the modern elves(Dalish/City).

[phosphene]

I agree completely with the friendship-romance connection. Its nice to have a few things saved for a romance playthrough, but your overall enjoyment of a character shouldn't depend on whether or not they are currently banging. 

 

It doesn't necessarily need to be easy, but a friendship should have just as much of an impact. 

^so much this

 

i mean yay, magical power of platonic friendship

 

but this is a video game and there is a dialogue budget

 

adding romances to the game is expensive, i want that to be a meaningful decision between a pt where i bang and do not bang him

[Cee]

I love the angry one a lot. But now I remember, it's not my favorite, but a second close for sure. My favorite is "I believe in us", cause it's exactly what my Lavellan feels. She knows he has baggage and she knows that if he lets her in, she can help him. She's not giving up on him, not in a million years. And the I love you version would be third on my list.

 

 

I like this one as well. This is also how mine felt, but the I love you option was the best for her. She's mostly sincere with a little bit of sarcasm. My mage Lavellan might be a little angrier so the other one is more apt for her.

 

If I fall back into this a third time in the future, maybe that. But I think I would finally try Cullen or Sera at that point with a human and be race locked out.

[Delphine]

What broke my heart a bit, though, is the fact Solas stops calling Lavellan "Vhenan" after the breakup scene, but calls her "Inquisitor", in an almost cold nondescript voice.

Brrrrr... Tiny detail, but effective as hell.

[Meer]

Who/what do you think "sleeps masked in the mirror, hiding, hurting"? I am super interested in other ideas and would love to hear what you think!

I remember talking about this with someone here once, but I cannot remember whom. Anyway, we discussed whether it was possible not only the gods were caught in the seal. What if the followers of the pantheon were also sent beyond the Eluvians? There could be ancient elves, cities of them even, people with the skills, knowledge, and even immortality that was lost, just languishing and perhaps (if our dark speculations about the gods are true) suffering much more than exile.

[laurelinvanyar]

Question to those who think Solas' plan does not involve unleashing the elven gods:

 

Who/what do you think "sleeps masked in the mirror, hiding, hurting"? I am super interested in other ideas and would love to hear what you think!

Oh I definitely think those are the elven gods behind an eluvian. I'm just not convinced Solas intends to free them. After all, we hear from him how awful and tyrannical they were. I just can't see a motivation for him to release them that wouldn't compromise what I understand of him as a character. He clearly cares about the little people as much as Sera does, even humans. Why would he potentially unleash chaos on the world? Is his guilt strong enough to countenance the deaths of all those people? He makes it a point to offer to remove your vallaslin in the romance. Would he be willing to release the gods, knowing that they have a ready-made slave caste that still wears the vallaslin? 

 

These are all my own speculations of course. I have no control over how Solas is going to be written. I can only hope that if they DO write him releasing the gods, he has a better reason than "Wah, I want Arlathan back!" or "Chaos and death are better than the present political reality!"

[BoscoBread]

It's funny because, since I haven't played other than my first and canon playthrough where I romanced Solas I can't say myself, but all I hear is complaints that Solas doesn't give a darn about you unless you're a female elf and you're romancing him. I'm glad to hear that some of you were taken with his friendship route because all I've seen is people scoffing at his relationship with their non-Solasmance Inquisitors.

 

I would argue against the statement that a romanced Lavellan doesn't challenge his worldviews, though. For example, I never really let him throw shade at me about the Dalish and that balcony conversation is an example of how you can basically tell him that yes, he was wrong. From how attached he is to a romanced Lavellan, she influences him in ways she doesn't even realize. In that it seems like through his relationship with her, he starts reconsidering modern Thedas and the "disappointment" that is its people. At least that's what I gleaned from certain lines and conversations with Cole.

Unless there were more conversations with Cole about the relationship beyond the breakup one - which again SHOULD point out that you're important to him - I didn't think the routes were all the much different...TBH.  You get some kissie time and flirts, but other than that, they are the same.  He voices the same things to a friend Inquisitor...that's why a lot of people do the whole Solas/Trev thing...the scenes are intimate.  I'll repeat it for the billionith time on here - I think a romanced Lavellan(so your way of getting info. about feels and the game) comes off as a bit of a dodo.  I found my friendmanced person to be a bit more on the ball thus making me more concerned for him.  Again, this may just because they need to showcase the relationship more in what little time/money they had.

 

So if we're talking about ways in which you care more for him as a character - a friendmanced Quizzy does a bit of a better job for me. All romanced Lavellan did was throw me into a hellspiral and feel bad about Lavellan. 

[phosphene]

What broke my heart a bit, though, is the fact Solas stops calling Lavellan "Vhenan" after the breakup scene, but calls her "Inquisitor", in an almost cold nondescript voice.

Brrrrr... Tiny detail, but effective as hell.

[Mims]

Totally unrelated - which tea did you say had a lot of caffiene?  I got my tea set - they are so cute but I will have to make Samson-level adjustments to Cullen's.

 

Almost all of them are fairly caffeinated. From the ones that I've tried, the Solas tea felt like it had the most caffeine in it. If you got the sampler kit, only Fenris is marked down as being a 'moderate' level of caffeine. The others are all high.

 

Just had a cup of the Sera tea. Was really nice! So far my favorite two have been the outliers. 

[Mims]

Question to those who think Solas' plan does not involve unleashing the elven gods:

 

Who/what do you think "sleeps masked in the mirror, hiding, hurting"? I am super interested in other ideas and would love to hear what you think!

 

I think the two don't necessarily have to be related. Ultimately I'm not really set on one theory or another- but the elven gods could still be masked in the mirror without necessarily needing to be released. He has regret about it, and I think they'll end up getting out anyway, but I'm not sure if its actually his plan to let them go free. 

 

I'm not sure if he could let them free even if he wanted to. At the moment the whole blighted elven god theory seems to stick with me the strongest. It might be past the point of no return, even if he wants to think that there might be a way to still save them. 

[laurelinvanyar]

Ahhh yessssss... was just talking about this to some other friends. Trying to figure out what exactly is Solas' definition of "the People" and whether that is cultural or something else (like if the modern elves are a functionally different race or something). 

 

Do you think his intent is to help modern elves? Try to restore some hidden cells of ancient elves? Both? Neither?

I can't say for sure. He waffles back and forth on whether or not he considers elves his people throughout the entire game. 

 

As for modern elves being functionally different....they pretty much are. They've lost their magic and immortality, essentially the inherent connection to the Fade that was common to all elves of Arlathan. They do still have remnants of that, which is why elves are ideal for blood magic sacrifices. I won't go into modern elves being smaller than ancient elves, since that seems more like a change of environment rather than evolution (it's only been a few thousand years, that's not enough time/generations for modern elves to have changed into a different race). 

 

There was clearly some kind of magical event. When the quickening occurred, the elves in Uthenera stopped coming back. I'm not sure that was the start of the veil, but something interfered with elves connection to the fade. 

[RynJ]

Unless there were more conversations with Cole about the relationship beyond the breakup one - which again SHOULD point out that you're important to him - I didn't think the routes were all the much different...TBH.  You get some kissie time and flirts, but other than that, they are the same.  He voices the same things to a friend Inquisitor...that's why a lot of people do the whole Solas/Trev thing...the scenes are intimate.  I'll repeat it for the billionith time on here - I think a romanced Lavellan(so your way of getting info. about feels and the game) comes off as a bit of a dodo.  I found my friendmanced person to be a bit more on the ball thus making me more concerned for him.  Again, this may just because they need to showcase the relationship more in what little time/money they had.

 

So if we're talking about ways in which you care more for him as a character - a friendmanced Quizzy does a bit of a better job for me. All romanced Lavellan did was throw me into a hellspiral and feel bad about Lavellan. 

 

Eh, I don't remember Lavellan coming off so stupid. It's not like there were a ton of flirt options that made you miss every conversation where it was possible to question him. I remember questioning him plenty, even if it netted disapproval. It was never enough to break the romance so it didn't matter.

 

It's just funny to me how opposite this is from what I've seen around! You'd think from how some people talk that Solas only comes out as redeemable if you romance him. I assume it's people who are caught up in his "racist" conversation who say that, though. I agree with you in that I think attachment to Lavellan and the way the romance ends very much colors the way many of his fans see him or react to him. You'd think all there was to him is his romance based on a lot of things (outside of here, mostly), though as I've stated many times on here, I find his romance to be the least compelling part about him. I'd go so far to say the romance is overrated, though it's my favorite and my canon. I guess because I like Solas more than his romance and am not super attached to my Lavellan, it just didn't have the same effect on me. It also helps that I was watching every tidbit about his character for months before we knew him. 

[Cee]

What broke my heart a bit, though, is the fact Solas stops calling Lavellan "Vhenan" after the breakup scene, but calls her "Inquisitor", in an almost cold nondescript voice.

Brrrrr... Tiny detail, but effective as hell.

 

That killed me.  :/

 

The last time he calls you vhenan is while breaking up with you.

[zambixi]

^so much this

 

i mean yay, magical power of platonic friendship

 

but this is a video game and there is a dialogue budget

 

adding romances to the game is expensive, i want that to be a meaningful decision between a pt where i bang and do not bang him

 

I love when someone comes in and manages to put my feels into one perfectly succinct sentence

 

I remember talking about this with someone here once, but I cannot remember whom. Anyway, we discussed whether it was possible not only the gods were caught in the seal. What if the followers of the pantheon were also sent beyond the Eluvians? There could be ancient elves, cities of them even, people with the skills, knowledge, and even immortality that was lost, just languishing and perhaps (if our dark speculations about the gods are true) suffering much more than exile.

 

 

Oh I definitely think those are the elven gods behind an eluvian. I'm just not convinced Solas intends to free them. After all, we hear from him how awful and tyrannical they were. I just can't see a motivation for him to release them that wouldn't compromise what I understand of him as a character. He clearly cares about the little people as much as Sera does, even humans. Why would he potentially unleash chaos on the world? Is his guilt strong enough to countenance the deaths of all those people? He makes it a point to offer to remove your vallaslin in the romance. Would he be willing to release the gods, knowing that they have a ready-made slave caste that still wears the vallaslin? 

 

These are all my own speculations of course. I have no control over how Solas is going to be written. I can only hope that if they DO write him releasing the gods, he has a better reason than "Wah, I want Arlathan back!" or "Chaos and death are better than the present political reality!"

 

There were elves trapped in the Eluvians...(TME spoilers)

 

Spoiler

....and they died. Or it seems like a lot of them did. It's implied that the eluvian network was shut down suddenly, and that many elves were trapped and either starved or murdered one another.

 

There could be a pocket of uthenara-super-class elves somewhere though. It would be kind of interesting if Thedas suddenly had to deal with ~100 elves that are accustomed to massive amounts of sociopolitical power and for whom "magic was as natural as breathing". I'm not sure it'd go well for anyone.

 

And agreeing with what people have been saying here... he might release the gods. I don't see him doing it immediately -- only if there are safeguards in place -- and I hope they don't reduce his character to "let them out because FREEDOM"

[Solas]

loving the ideas thanks everyone

[Delphine]

 

It's a punch in the face I really didn't feel on my first playthrough, because Solas and Lavellan remain friends throughout the entire game, and he keeps on calling her "My friend" or "Lethallan". But as a romanced Lavellan, that "Inquisitor" on my second playthrough was hard to swallow.

 

And +1 for the Sailor Moon gif. That is fitting, because I think it's from that episode when Mamoru breaks up with her for reasons she doesn't know/understand at all.

[Maria13]

Oh I definitely think those are the elven gods behind an eluvian. I'm just not convinced Solas intends to free them. After all, we hear from him how awful and tyrannical they were. I just can't see a motivation for him to release them that wouldn't compromise what I understand of him as a character. He clearly cares about the little people as much as Sera does, even humans. Why would he potentially unleash chaos on the world? Is his guilt strong enough to countenance the deaths of all those people? He makes it a point to offer to remove your vallaslin in the romance. Would he be willing to release the gods, knowing that they have a ready-made slave caste that still wears the vallaslin? 

 

These are all my own speculations of course. I have no control over how Solas is going to be written. I can only hope that if they DO write him releasing the gods, he has a better reason than "Wah, I want Arlathan back!" or "Chaos and death are better than the present political reality!"

 

Yes, I think I agree with you entirely... It all hinges on what "my people" means to him, I am hopeful that by the end of the game it is more and wider than just the elves because he has been able to appreciate that there are good people of all races and genders...

 

I think he does... Some of his expressions say so, thus on the Emerald Knights, I paraphrase, "For the elves they were defenders or their way of life, for the humans cruel murderers... The truth probably lies somewhere in between..." And after all the worthy incarnation of his oldest friend, Mythal, is the human Flemeth...

[Mims]

 

There could be a pocket of uthenara-super-class elves somewhere though. It would be kind of interesting if Thedas suddenly had to deal with ~100 elves that are accustomed to massive amounts of sociopolitical power and for whom "magic was as natural as breathing". I'm not sure it'd go well for anyone.

 

 

My speculation has been that there was probably a lot of collateral damage involved in trapping the elven gods in a snare. Higher tier followers, nobles. Possibly half of Arlathan. If they are in a state of sort of limbo, Solas might feel that he has to find a way to free them at some point. He traded their lives for the prison he made, and it doesn't seem like the price paid was worth it. 

 

The question, if that scenario is true, is if there's anything left to save. 

[zambixi]

My speculation has been that there was probably a lot of collateral damage involved in trapping the elven gods in a snare. Higher tier followers, nobles. Possibly half of Arlathan. If they are in a state of sort of limbo, Solas might feel that he has to find a way to free them at some point. He traded their lives for the prison he made, and it doesn't seem like the price paid was worth it. 

 

The question, if that scenario is true, is if there's anything left to save. 

 

According to Solas there are ancient elves that "linger," or at least I think that's what he implies when speaking to Abelas. Plus there's Felassan... so presumably somewhere there are ancient elves doing something. Why are at least some of them walking around? Why aren't those few doing anything to assist the elves? Why do they all seem to be under some sort of NDA regarding the history of Elvhenan?

 

I do think that Solas' goal has something to do with correcting something fundamentally wrong with the way the world is. Not "just" restoring the elves, but restoring some state of being that has been lost. Curing some sort of metaphysical sickness. Mythal talks about how "the world was betrayed" and that seems like it would be something beyond the oppression of the elves. Political goals just don't seem like they'd be "worth" fixing. Or if they are, why now? Why did none of the other ancient elves bother with it?

 

TME Spoilers

Spoiler

But I get tripped up with the last part of TME where Felassan talks about giving Briala a chance. As awesome and smart as Briala is, it doesn't seem like her goals are leading her towards fixing some Great Problem in Thedas. It seems like her efforts might at best lead to parity with humans, and probably not for quite a long time. Unless Felassan thinks that Briala will discover something else? Or is Felassan saying that whoever he is talking to should give up on their greater goals because whatever Briala could accomplish is good enough/better?

 

TL;DR I have only questions!

[MTC]

 

Oh I definitely think those are the elven gods behind an eluvian. I'm just not convinced Solas intends to free them. After all, we hear from him how awful and tyrannical they were. I just can't see a motivation for him to release them that wouldn't compromise what I understand of him as a character. He clearly cares about the little people as much as Sera does, even humans. Why would he potentially unleash chaos on the world? Is his guilt strong enough to countenance the deaths of all those people? He makes it a point to offer to remove your vallaslin in the romance. Would he be willing to release the gods, knowing that they have a ready-made slave caste that still wears the vallaslin? 

 

These are all my own speculations of course. I have no control over how Solas is going to be written. I can only hope that if they DO write him releasing the gods, he has a better reason than "Wah, I want Arlathan back!" or "Chaos and death are better than the present political reality!"

 

Totally agreed. The only way I can make the "releasing the gods" theory make sense (to me), is if sealing the gods away meant also cutting off some special elfy power - whatever made them immortal, or gave their magic an edge, or protected the empire from external harm. In that case, I could imagine him having to risk unsealing them - maybe having to deal with them all over again - in order to un-hobble his people? I'm eager to see how it plays out, in any case.

 

Though I just realized that since the elves at the Well of Sorrows are immortal, it's apparently still available to some. Scratch that one, I guess.

 

For Colonelkillabee. INCENTIVE.

Spoiler

On Topic: How about that Solas? While I know we've talked about his future plans, I honestly think his strong reactions about the Wardens, side stepping of Cassandra's questions about their relations with the gods of the past, means his plans involve either solving or addressing the blight head on.

Also, totally thing think that the Kossith across the sea are planning an invasion. AND I AM SO EXCITED.

 

 

I'm an amateur in a game best left to professionals, here, but I think this is really interesting. Maybe resolving the blight is actually a step (or the step) towards unlocking the gods/re-locking the gods/whatever he's trying to do. As opposed to the reverse, which is what I'd assumed was more likely.

 

I think that all the blighty things - the warden business (searching for the calling cure, etc.) and the red lyrium, and whatever's going on with the various pantheons of gods - will angle into the same broad plot stream, and pull everyone's various personal investments into the same story (from a writing perspective, to keep all the characters and their stories relevant - allow some to tie off, etc.). I always thought that the blight might have been a symptom of Solas's Great Matter - thus his general attitude to the wardens of "you morons don't even know what the real problem is" - but maybe it was actually the cause. I dunno.

 

I'm playing an Adaar for my canon #2 now, as well, and it makes all the possible Kossith stuff, like, ten times more exciting for me.

[Dark_Rogue]

 

Oh I definitely think those are the elven gods behind an eluvian. I'm just not convinced Solas intends to free them. After all, we hear from him how awful and tyrannical they were. I just can't see a motivation for him to release them that wouldn't compromise what I understand of him as a character. He clearly cares about the little people as much as Sera does, even humans. Why would he potentially unleash chaos on the world? Is his guilt strong enough to countenance the deaths of all those people? He makes it a point to offer to remove your vallaslin in the romance. Would he be willing to release the gods, knowing that they have a ready-made slave caste that still wears the vallaslin? 

 

These are all my own speculations of course. I have no control over how Solas is going to be written. I can only hope that if they DO write him releasing the gods, he has a better reason than "Wah, I want Arlathan back!" or "Chaos and death are better than the present political reality!"

You made me think of a random-ass theory with that...

 

What if the vallaslin isn't just for marking slaves, but acts as a form of control collar with blood magic?  I'm thinking back to the weird artworks on the stone that I've seen and there is one that shows a row of elves all hunched over and having marked faces (IIRC).

 

Or it could be a reference to the Blight, no idea, just throwing out some random theories since that's all we have until Wolf Hunt...

[laurelinvanyar]

 

 

You made me think of a random-ass theory with that...

 

What if the vallaslin isn't just for marking slaves, but acts as a form of control collar with blood magic?  I'm thinking back to the weird artworks on the stone that I've seen and there is one that shows a row of elves all hunched over and having marked faces (IIRC).

 

Or it could be a reference to the Blight, no idea, just throwing out some random theories since that's all we have until Wolf Hunt...

 

That's a theory I've held on to for a long time. After all, how exactly do you pacify a slave population of mages? You'd need some way to dampen their power, and the ink used in vallaslin is made with blood. 

 

Another thought that occurred to me is that all those slave mages would either have to be trained (it's made pretty clear that the only thing more dangerous than a trained mage is an untrained one) or suppressed. Considering these people were property, I'm guessing it was a better option to bind their magic than to spend countless hours training a slave that would then have the tools to potentially rebel. 

 

Also, the whole "vallaslin are slave markings" thing gives a rather grim slant to the title of Keeper, no?