153433 réponses à ce sujet

[Al Foley]

Not that I'd willingly compare Solas to Anders But the comparison does hold. Blackwall too.

 

I get it though. Solas knew better, he's a logical man, but feelings are a ****** sometimes. It should be expected that eventually logic trumps his feelings however.

 

For now

You know its amazing about Solas is despite how logical he is, he is also a very passionate man.  One of the most passionae men ever, secretly.  It might be his problem and why he keeps messing up because despite making logical choices, eventually his passions and his emotions get in the way of him doing good.  We saw this in his personal quest, and his entire story throughout all of Dragon Age.  

 

I mean hell YOU GAVE YOURSELF INTO THE SERVICE OF AN ELVEN GOD! was not a calm statement steeped in logic. 

[Cee]

All he did was end the relationship. Poorly, but still.

 

If one feels used or violated from that, I think that's their problem really. After all, Lavellan advanced on him. His words before everything was "No, I shouldn't."

 

Hurt and resentful shouldn't be confused with violated or used.

 

 

She might have made the first move, but discounting his obviously wanting it and pursuing the relationship in spite of his caution is a bad thing.

 

If you choose, after Fade Haven, to say you'd be willing to take that risk if he is, his response is  Yes, I may be (yes, I want it, maybe...the return of his caution)..." and asking for time due to "considerations".

 

Yet HE is the one who brings up the kiss again, after kind of feeling Lavellan out a bit to maybe try and make sense of his feelings. "I have not forgotten the kiss" isn't just her "advancing on him". He also caps off the second round of kisses by telling her he loves her. Even though, yes, he does the adorable head shake again and tries to walk away. Yes, she stops him, but yes, also part of him was looking for her to stop him from leaving, while another part of him wanted to shut it all down and, should Lavellan break it off with him, he seems quite relieved, though it's also sad in its own way.

 

 

That said, I agree that this shouldn't really lead to feeling used. However, couple this with later finding out he disappeared suddenly AND Leliana's report about his named village being an ancient ruin, uncovering some deception....well, it's justified if someone wants to feel like their Lavellan feels rather used. Partly because there are multiple things at work she doesn't know.

[CapricornSun]

People are jealous that she's well into her 60s and looks better than they do and that she's an utter badass revolutionary leader.

A lot of it, I think, comes from the fact that her level of specialness is at 'player character' levels. I guess people don't like being reminded that they're not the only snowflake in Thedas. I also think a little of it is down to sexism. I don't think that a male character in Fiona's place would get nearly as much hate as she does.

She had a lot of hate before DAI came out. When I read The Calling and Asunder I found her interesting and far more sensible than her haters claimed. She didn't pull the mages into a war. She took a vote and acted on the majority. Her actions in DAI are questionable but I think the Nightmare demon was doing stuff to her head during that quest.

I didn't even know that Fiona had a lot of hate before DA:I came out. I never read Asunder but I thought she was alright in The Calling.   

And yeah, if she was a man, she probably won't be receiving as much hate as she does now. :/ In fact, a lot of characters that people seem to have such hatred for (like Anora, Bianca, Fiona, etc.) are female. Sad.

[Al Foley]

I didn't even know that Fiona had a lot of hate before DA:I came out. I never read Asunder but I thought she was alright in The Calling.

And yeah, if she was a man, she probably won't be receiving as much hate as she does now. :/ In fact, a lot of characters that people seem to have such hatred for (like Anora, Bianca, Fiona, etc.) are female. Sad.

...I am pretty sure about Anora.  I mean for myself personally politicians like her in real life drive me into a almost genocidal rage...kidding.  But they do drive me up the wall.  

 

As far as Bianca is concerned...I do not get where the hate is coming from.  Granted I have never seen, or bothered seeing, an argument on her hate so that is most of the reason...but even trying to reason it out myself I just do not get it.  I mean the closest I have heard was a comment by a yotube lets player that her threatening the Inquisitor's eyes was over the top...but if that were my girlfriend I would hope they would rip someone's eyeballs out to defend me.  

[Colonelkillabee]

You know its amazing about Solas is despite how logical he is, he is also a very passionate man.  One of the most passionae men ever, secretly.  It might be his problem and why he keeps messing up because despite making logical choices, eventually his passions and his emotions get in the way of him doing good.  We saw this in his personal quest, and his entire story throughout all of Dragon Age.  

 

I mean hell YOU GAVE YOURSELF INTO THE SERVICE OF AN ELVEN GOD! was not a calm statement steeped in logic. 

Indeed, I'm like that too. You wouldn't know it though. Unless you read some of my writing anyway, lol. INTPs, we're closet Feelers.

 

 

She might have made the first move, but discounting his obviously wanting it and pursuing the relationship in spite of his caution is a bad thing.

 

If you choose, after Fade Haven, to say you'd be willing to take that risk if he is, his response is  Yes, I may be (yes, I want it, maybe...the return of his caution)..." and asking for time due to "considerations".

 

Yet HE is the one who brings up the kiss again, after kind of feeling Lavellan out a bit to maybe try and make sense of his feelings. "I have not forgotten the kiss" isn't just her "advancing on him". He also caps off the second round of kisses by telling her he loves her. Even though, yes, he does the adorable head shake again and tries to walk away. Yes, she stops him, but yes, also part of him was looking for her to stop him from leaving, while another part of him wanted to shut it all down and, should Lavellan break it off with him, he seems quite relieved, though it's also sad in its own way.

 

 

That said, I agree that this shouldn't really lead to feeling used. However, couple this with later finding out he disappeared suddenly AND Leliana's report about his named village being an ancient ruin, uncovering some deception....well, it's justified if someone wants to feel like their Lavellan feels rather used. Partly because there are multiple things at work she doesn't know.

None of this really changes anything. It's not like I said he didn't like it and lavellan forced herself on him against his will. The point's simply that for one to have been used, he'd have to go in with a desire to drop her after he got what he wanted, which wasn't the case. So any feelings of being used can't really be accounted for by the developers and is irrational, which is fine. Feelings tend to be irrational.

 

His reluctance in general is key here.

[Al Foley]

Indeed, I'm like that too. You wouldn't know it though. Unless you read some of my writing anyway, lol. INTPs, we're closet Feelers.

 

 

None of this really changes anything. It's not like I said he didn't like it and lavellan forced herself on him against his will. The point's simply that for one to have been used, he'd have to go in with a desire to drop her after he got what he wanted, which wasn't the case. So any feelings of being used can't really be accounted for by the developers and is irrational, which is fine. Feelings tend to be irrational.

 

His reluctance in general is key here.

I think we had this conversation about what personality type I am.

[Siha]

But on the personal level of me in the character I hoped I was wrong.  It was funny I could see them going in this direction and wrote it in a fan fic, that my Inquisitor to be did not trust Fioana's leadership...but I liked the character, and wish she were more George Washington rather then...a good example does not come to mind honestly. 

 

That's a lot to ask though. It's not like history was flooded with leaders like Washington. I can't recall any other (that I know of) who still believed in the cause so strongly after winning that he deliberately refused to establish autocracy. Takes a strong character to do that. And if Fiona was such, we'd basically not have any need for the Inquisitor or other "heroes". If they minimize conflict in the first place it will be very dull in the DA future. Just imagine a Thedas where all people with power act humane and considerate. Our player character would just roam the lands, look at the individual situation, and say "Alright, everything's fine here. Good. As you were."

[Colonelkillabee]

I think we had this conversation about what personality type I am.

It slipped my mind actually You INTP too?

[Al Foley]

That's a lot to ask though. It's not like history was flooded with leaders like Washington. I can't recall any other (that I know of) who still believed in the cause so strongly after winning that he deliberately refused to establish autocracy. Takes a strong character to do that. And if Fiona was such, we'd basically not have any need for the Inquisitor or other "heroes". If they minimize conflict in the first place it will be very dull in the DA future. Just imagine a Thedas where all people with power act humane and considerate. Our player character would just roam the lands, look at the individual situation, and say "Alright, everything's fine here. Good. As you were."

I know...hence why I applaud BioWare for what they did.  I just wish I was wrong because  I liked her character.  Its just like your favorite candidate for President turning out to be a completly power hungry ding bat and you are left scratching your head....what did I miss? style.  

[Al Foley]

It slipped my mind actually You INTP too?

INFP.  I remember though for the first little thingy I got an even 5/5 for both camps in introverted extroverted.  

[Maria13]

That's how I see it too, though you can read it both ways, even both ways at the same time.

 

Still, in all of those flirts he's definitely smooth. Even the warrior one - he's obviously been looking you over.

 

He is very good with his tongue... I mean... language... He has great control over what he says. Would make a great politician or lawyer..

[Colonelkillabee]

INFP.  I remember though for the first little thingy I got an even 5/5 for both camps in introverted extroverted.  

Ah I see, my bad My memory isn't always the greatest. I'm close on the F side even if it keeps giving me T.

 

I know...hence why I applaud BioWare for what they did.  I just wish I was wrong because  I liked her character.  Its just like your favorite candidate for President turning out to be a completly power hungry ding bat and you are left scratching your head....what did I miss? style.  

That's not every election?

 

I think Fiona had to have been under some blood magic influence. She was a slave once. There's no way I can believe she of all people would trust the Tevinter, no matter who she thought was tailing her. Had to be to buy that old trick "There's an invading Templar force right over that hill!"

[Al Foley]

Ah I see, my bad My memory isn't always the greatest. I'm close on the F side even if it keeps giving me T.

 

That's not every election?

 

I think Fiona had to have been under some blood magic influence. She was a slave once. There's no way I can believe she of all people would trust the Tevinter, no matter who she thought was tailing her. Had to be to buy that old trick "There's an invading Templar force right over that hill!"

no worries my memory is shite too.  

 

...just about every election...the others I never liked any of the candidates anyways.  

[Kulyok]

Yeah being used implies that Solas went into the romance eagerly and then after the deed was like...oh wait hahaha...you thought this was serious?  If he was reluctant about starting the romance 'I will end up hurting you' you should not be surprised that you will get hurt, see Anders and Blackwall.

 

Actually, kind of yeah, he did, because Solas didn't explicitly tell her he'd be gone, and Lavellan might've expected a marriage or an equally lengthy relationship - maybe years together, maybe many years, maybe their whole lives. So, yes, that's a classic "he used her to get warmth and love and closeness, but she would have absolutely loved to know and might've said no if she knew he'd be gone at the end of the war".

 

I'm not worried about that as much, though. It's just after Jaws of Hakkon, it seems more and more probable that elven gods were spirits(demons). And while I'm absolutely okay with "Hey, I had a romance with an elf!", "Hey, I had a romance with an ancient elf!" and "Hey, I had a romance with an ancient elven god!", I'm totally not okay with "Hey, I romanced a demon. Choice. Spirit." That has a sense of wrongness I'm not comfortable with. Solas = god? Great. Solas = elven god? Wonderful. Solas = an elven god who has extreme kinship/massive knowledge about spirits? Excellent. Solas = an ancient spirit/demon,? No, sorry, that's a hugely uncomfortable moment and a very nasty lie.

[Maria13]

That was okay up until the summation. Solas' appeal is not the hahren factor or tragedy, for me, but the subtlety and cerebral aspects. And to compare it to Phantom of the Opera...   To me the Christine-Phantom relationship was unrequited and very dysfunctional.

 

Absolutely agree. I am an older person and I am attracted to this romance not because he is a mentor but because he is mature and sensible and has gone around the block a few times...  And I hated HATED Phantom

[Sable Rhapsody]

I think Fiona had to have been under some blood magic influence. She was a slave once. There's no way I can believe she of all people would trust the Tevinter, no matter who she thought was tailing her. Had to be to buy that old trick "There's an invading Templar force right over that hill!"

 

It's implied at Adamant that the Grey Wardens' lapses in judgment were influenced by the Nightmare playing off their worst fears.  I wonder if the Nightmare was powerful enough to do that to Fiona and the rebel mages as well.  It would at least explain why they were like "Yeah, Tevinters are totally a great idea!" 

[Solas]

Actually, kind of yeah, he did, because Solas didn't explicitly tell her he'd be gone, and Lavellan might've expected a marriage or an equally lengthy relationship - maybe years together, maybe many years, maybe their whole lives. So, yes, that's a classic "he used her to get warmth and love and closeness, but she would have absolutely loved to know and might've said no if she knew he'd be gone at the end of the war".

 

I'm not worried about that as much, though. It's just after Jaws of Hakkon, it seems more and more probable that elven gods were spirits(demons). And while I'm absolutely okay with "Hey, I had a romance with an elf!", "Hey, I had a romance with an ancient elf!" and "Hey, I had a romance with an ancient elven god!", I'm totally not okay with "Hey, I romanced a demon. Choice. Spirit." That has a sense of wrongness I'm not comfortable with. Solas = god? Great. Solas = elven god? Wonderful. Solas = an elven god who has extreme kinship/massive knowledge about spirits? Excellent. Solas = an ancient spirit/demon,? No, sorry, that's a hugely uncomfortable moment and a very nasty lie.

Interesting. I understand obviously the negative implications of "demon", but talking just about "spirit" for a moment, I don't see "spirit" as any worse than "ancient elven god". As in I don't see "spirit" as being any more uncomfortable/of a nasty lie than "ancient elven god". Either one is a huge revelation/deception.

[Maria13]

You know its amazing about Solas is despite how logical he is, he is also a very passionate man.  One of the most passionae men ever, secretly.  It might be his problem and why he keeps messing up because despite making logical choices, eventually his passions and his emotions get in the way of him doing good.  We saw this in his personal quest, and his entire story throughout all of Dragon Age.  

 

I mean hell YOU GAVE YOURSELF INTO THE SERVICE OF AN ELVEN GOD! was not a calm statement steeped in logic. 

 

Absolutely. This is what makes him so fascinating, he has the capabilities, the detachment but he can't quite overcome his emotions...

[Colonelkillabee]

It's implied at Adamant that the Grey Wardens' lapses in judgment were influenced by the Nightmare playing off their worst fears.  I wonder if the Nightmare was powerful enough to do that to Fiona and the rebel mages as well.  It would at least explain why they were like "Yeah, Tevinters are totally a great idea!" 

Wish they'd stop finding excuses to give people the idiot card as an easy way to progress the story.

[Colonelkillabee]

Actually, kind of yeah, he did, because Solas didn't explicitly tell her he'd be gone, and Lavellan might've expected a marriage or an equally lengthy relationship - maybe years together, maybe many years, maybe their whole lives. So, yes, that's a classic "he used her to get warmth and love and closeness, but she would have absolutely loved to know and might've said no if she knew he'd be gone at the end of the war".

Sorry but your expectations don't really have anything to do with him. Don't you think it's kind of cruddy to say someone used you because they didn't live up to your expectations in a relationship? That makes no sense and is rather unfair to the guy. No matter what he does, someone would say he used them because of something he couldn't control, which was lavellan's affection for him and Solas feeling the same way even though he knew it wouldn't work.

 

Using someone is malicious. Malevolent. People who say this make me wonder if they've ever been truly used by another.

[Siha]

Actually, kind of yeah, he did, because Solas didn't explicitly tell her he'd be gone, and Lavellan might've expected a marriage or an equally lengthy relationship - maybe years together, maybe many years, maybe their whole lives. So, yes, that's a classic "he used her to get warmth and love and closeness, but she would have absolutely loved to know and might've said no if she knew he'd be gone at the end of the war".

 

I find that a bit far fetched. Yes, he dropped hints about not being sure how things will develop. But I don't think he knew for sure that he would leave. Maybe he even only decided that when he saw the orb scattered on the ground. Maybe he had really hoped to stay and use the Inquisition to further his goals once he had the orb back.

I personally am no fan of this "He wanted to tell her but chickened out" approach, but if I do assume it to be true then he obviously did not mean to leave. Now he realizes at some point that he doesn't have another option but to go and not tell anybody about his identity and plans.

 

In the end it does not even matter when he decided to break up, before the vallaslin scene or "during" it. (1) If he decided it before, maybe he wanted to give something to Lavellan as a farewell present -- being the person he is, he considers truth (in this case the truth about the vallaslin) a gift after all. Or (2) if he decided to break up because he chickened out, his decision to leave might have occurred right there or even later still.

 

Either way you twist it, I do not think he planned on using and leaving her all along.

[The Oracle]

Plus I have to chime in and point out that people are free to be with others and then leave them at any point. What a horrifying thought that, after what was probably only a few months in the Inquisition timeline, he found himself bound entirely to Lavellan and unable to leave her just because she had expectations of more. I don't doubt that he, in his heart, didn't wish to leave her. To me, he thinks that he has to sacrifice himself and any happiness he may have briefly gleaned for the greater good of "helping his people", whatever that'll involve we've yet to find out.

 

Either way, he can break off the relationship whenever he wants and for whatever reason. Lavellan is free to do the same. That's life.

[Solas]

I think romancedLavellan centric views of his character do him a great disservice tbh.

[Elessara]

Ok so I've been avoiding this thread to avoid spoilers on the DLC and I'll be honest I didn't skim the past 100 or so pages I've missed since then.  AND I've come to ask an off-topic question.  I'm a terrible person.

 

In the DLC you can get Tier 4 armor schematics for the Mail and Coat versions of the armor.  But I can't find the tier 4 Armor versions.  Do they exist in the DLC?  If not that sucks, that's my favorite look of the three types.

 

Anyway, on the current topic I see, didn't Patrick Weekes say Solas realised during the scene with the vallaslin (after that bit actually) that he couldn't stay with her and made the decision right then to break up and leave?  Also, this same line of thought could be applied to Morrigan as well.  She absolutely used the warden for her own ends but, if romanced, she absolutely did love the warden even as she used him.  Morrigan just thought that she had no other choice but to leave.

 

Edit:  I should probably clarify that I don't believe Solas used a romanced Lavellan.  I think he wanted to help stop Corypheus.  I also think he believed that by helping he could also achieve his own goals.  Two birds, one stone and all that.  I also personally believe that his feelings for Lavellan (if he was romanced) caught him completely by surprise and were separate from his other goals.

[Illyria]

Massive multi quote incoming

 

I follow her, she indeed writes some beautiful stuff

 

She does.  I didn't realise a lot of my favourite headcanon peices were all by her until I found her blog.

 

wait ... theres actual players that hate elves?

elves were/are one of the greatest races in DA ... 

i read "the calling" and "asunder", but i liked fiona. i probably missed something from another book. 

 

Oh my sweet summer child.  There is A LOT of elf hate in these boards.  People rejoycing in being able to murder a clan per game, the overjoyed reaction to finding out Red Crossing was the fault of the elves, celebrating the massive deconstruction the elves took in this game.  It's fairly horrible.

 

I played a Dalish for DA:O so I have always been interested in them. I was a bit annoyed that DA2 seemed to be focusing heavily on the mages versus templars bit but nonetheless, I still went all "FREEDOM FOR ALL MAGES!" throughout DA2. xD

 

When I went into DA:I thought it was just going to focus on fixing the mage/templar conflict but I was surprised on how much elfy stuff there was in the game (and that made me so happy!). Edit: And of course, there's Solas so it made it even better.

 

Also, I love that artwork of modern AU Lavellan so much! NEVER AGAIN SHALL WE SUBMIT! 

 

*ahem* Sorry, I got carried away... ^__^;

 

I love being a Dalish elf and the only reason my canon is a Surana is because I love being a mage more.  I do have a modded mage Mathariel, but I've never been able to get into her playthrough because I know I can't import her.

 

 

"Either you pay me or I flay you alive... with my mind"



 

 

 

I've never gotten more than 5hrs into Skyrim. It is my great shame.

 

Modded Skyrim is amazing.  If you have it on PC I can PM you a list of some fantastic mods.

 

Not necessarily. After the ending, you can find a servant in Val Royeaux talking about a woman calling herself Mythal in his dreams. Based on the notes people found, it's very likely that this is now Morrigan, meaning either Morrigan answers to herself if she drank....AKA she's free, or the Inquisitor is serving Mythal AKA Morrigan.

 

That converstation can happen at any time, not just post game.

 

I didn't even know that Fiona had a lot of hate before DA:I came out. I never read Asunder but I thought she was alright in The Calling.   

And yeah, if she was a man, she probably won't be receiving as much hate as she does now. :/ In fact, a lot of characters that people seem to have such hatred for (like Anora, Bianca, Fiona, etc.) are female. Sad.

 

I don't think it's deliberate sexism.  It's just society teaches us that the type of traits Fiona has are good in a man, but bad in a woman.  And there a lot of male characters who screw up far, far worse than Bianca and Fiona who don't get nearly as much hate and have fandoms that justify everything they do. *cough*Anders*cough*

 

It's implied at Adamant that the Grey Wardens' lapses in judgment were influenced by the Nightmare playing off their worst fears.  I wonder if the Nightmare was powerful enough to do that to Fiona and the rebel mages as well.  It would at least explain why they were like "Yeah, Tevinters are totally a great idea!" 

 

This theory has a lot of weight.  Fiona seemed to be doing okay when she met Inky in VR.  It was only after the timeline got messed around with that the Templer threat became impossible to overcome.  It's highly likely that the Nightmare also affected the mages to make them easier to control.