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[OxidantsHappen]

"All the"? Is that a Canadian unit, "all" = one?

I'm American. I can vouche that it is universal, not just Canadian. Don't pretend it isn't true, we know better.

[SnowPeaShooter]

Not nefarious or evil, but grey. Still, I do think Solas fans need to be prepared for the possibility (stress on possibility) that his plans might not be the best for Thedas as a whole.

 

Flemeth isn't evil or nefarious either. Untrustworthy to be sure. She just had her own agenda.

 

.......I think that is kinda unfair. Nothing guarantees to be "the best for Thedas as a whole". Whats good for elves may not be good for humans, etc etc...Conflicts are bound to arise due to the differentiation in identities and the limitation in resources available. To make everyone happy, you would either need unlimited resources or to unify their identities. So is converting everyone to the Qun the best for Thedas as a whole? Some people would never be able to live in such a system, but still, that is a lot less unhappy people compare to when there're international or inter-racial conflicts. So maybe converting everyone to the Qun does yield the highest percentage of happiness, though I personally would never support it. (There's a side note here, I won't support it because I know I won't survive in a Qun society. If I am in Thedas, could it be said that I am preventing the betterment of society due to self interest?)

 

Solas is an "Elven God" of the Elvhen race, although he cares about people in general, he made his "Elvhen" identity abundantly clear. I think it is safe to expect that whatever his plans are, they would be based on the interest of the Elvhen race. Would modern elves gain from that? More or less I think, as this is at the least a chance to shift the power balance toward them. Would humans gain from that? I doubt it, given that the humans are currently the most powerful and resourceful race on Thedas, any form of shifting the power balance away from them would likely not benefit them.

 

Playing as a pro-elf pro-magic elven inquisitor, I actually don't worry too much about what Solas may do. I don't know exactly what he is going to do, true, but I consider him more or less on the elf side.

[nikki-tikki]

"All the"? Is that a Canadian unit, "all" = one?

 

All = the only ones that matter lol. 

[BoscoBread]

There's several things that ticked me off when it came to the point you brought up about Cass.

 

Both of them have to do with her choices for the Inquisition. Both of them are because of what the writers intended being effected by the audience.

 

She seems to have such admiration for Hawke and Hawke was supposed to be a bigger character, we know this, but he wasn't. So all this Champion talk and admiration, and news that he was supposed to be inquisitor? Then there's Cullen and everything you just said about him being absolutely true. He's barely done enough to prove he's capable of running a whole army... They tried to make him more heroic by the end of Dragon Age 2, that was nice to see the progression from Origins, I'll give them that, but the jump from that to our general is so forced. It's like... Cass. Better taste in men, please! Lol. If Hawke's a dude anyway, but seriously, it's like you said, she's so star struck over people from Kirkwall... and I have no idea why except that she bought into Varric's tales way too easily.

 

It's the one weak moment she had that I don't like too much, but no one is perfect of course. I still love her It was just a weakpoint in the writer's storytelling for her and likely just not delivered well because of last minute changes and things forced on them.

Yeah. You know I love Cass and will defend her. I wonder if it's bad writing or an actual character flaw. I want to say the latter, I think her idealism is as problematic as it is wonderful.  

[Heidirs]

I like Cullen... liked him since Origins where I felt really bad for him. He had some very strong opinions against mages but it was clear those stemmed from his traumatic experiences. And seeing him in DA2 and watching him turn against Meredith was beautiful. For him to take everything he's experienced with mages and all his beliefs that magic is dangerous and to be able to turn against his superior officer and say "no, this is wrong" even with everything he's been through - that was amazing. And then having him in Inquisition and hearing him admit that he realizes his anti-mage beliefs were wrong and yet still hold on to the Templars - finding some middle ground between the two - and even falling in love with mage (if you romance him). That growth of his character is wonderful to watch.

 

As far as Cassandra recruiting him... honestly, Cullen is pretty leveled headed at this point. He's the first person who stood up against Meredith and led the other Templars against her. So, I think Cassandra can admire that - that he can make the hard choices for what's right even when everyone else in authority above you is telling you no. That's a pretty important quality for those running the Inquisition to have, especially at the beginning. 

 

So... I don't see either of them as being out of character.

[Illyria]

oh god that would be eye bleeding 

i think his current appearance is his true one ... he's probably a vessel for Fen'Harel so not some sort of mutated creature. If anything he can transform into some mutation of a wolf. 

 

I agree with you except on one point - I don't think he's a vessel.  I think he is Fen'Harel and always has been.

[Solas]

.......I think that is kinda unfair. Nothing guarantees to be "the best for Thedas as a whole". Whats good for elves may not be good for humans, etc etc...Conflicts are bound to arise due to the differentiation in identities and the limitation in resources available. To make everyone happy, you would either need unlimited resources or to unify their identities. So is converting everyone to the Qun the best for Thedas as a whole? Some people would never be able to live in such a system, but still, that is a lot less unhappy people compare to when there're international or inter-racial conflicts. So maybe converting everyone to the Qun does yield the highest percentage of happiness, though I personally would never support it. (There's a side note here, I won't support it because I know I won't survive in a Qun society. If I am in Thedas, could it be said that I am preventing the betterment of society due to self interest?)

 

Solas is an "Elven God" of the Elvhen race, although he cares about people in general, he made his "Elvhen" identity abundantly clear. I think it is safe to expect that whatever his plans are, they would be based on the interest of the Elvhen race. Would modern elves gain from that? More or less I think, as this is at the least a chance to shift the power balance toward them. Would humans gain from that? I doubt it, given that the humans are currently the most powerful and resourceful race on Thedas, any form of shifting the power balance away from them would likely not benefit them.

 

Playing as a pro-elf pro-magic elven inquisitor, I actually don't worry too much about what Solas may do. I don't know exactly what he is going to do, true, but I consider him more or less on the elf side.

I suggested it was a /possibility/, I didn't make sweeping statements. What is good for elves not being good for humans and other races is my point exactly - say, for hypothetical example, he wants to bring the elven gods back. This may be good for elves, but may spell trouble for the future of other races in Thedas, depending on what the Creators are like. Solas is my favorite character after Cole - it's easy to romanticize him.. I don't think I'm being unfair just for keeping in mind the greyness of his character.

 

We can assume for pretty much certain that Solas' plans, whatever they are, are based on the best intentions for elves (whichever subgroup of elves he considers to be his people, at any rate). We know this from "The People, they need me" and from the dev notes "In his drive to save the People, he will kill anyone, even Mythal" [they were something like that anyway]. He's definitely on the side of whoever he considers to be The People.

 

Whether or not his plans actually will be the best for the elves is another thing entirely, and the subject of some discussion. For instance, one line of speculation holds that if he's planning on releasing the gods back to the world, it may not be the best thing for modern elves at all, because they will once again be beholden to a group of powerful beings who, from certain Codex entries and dialogues, can certainly be interpreted as feudal tyrants who have abused their power, may be [in the case of some] genuinely Blighted/corrupted/insane, and done quite a few horrible things to their followers. In this line of speculation (emphasis on the speculation, that's all it is of course at the moment), is that really what's best for the People, to be yoked again to demi-god oppressors? The gods warred among themselves. Falon'din supposedly started wars to amass more followers because his love of adulation was so great. Elgar'nan had his rages. Andruil hunted her followers for sport. Most of if not all of the Creators seemed to have kept slaves or at least people in servitude, marked with ownership. To trade shem oppressors for ******* overlords.. that's not for me.

 

I'm of the opinion that a shift of power for elves in Thedas should come around as a result of such things as Briala holding power of Gaspard and an elven Inquisitor acting as an ambassador for elvenkind and a beacon for elves across Thedas.

 

I think that if his plans were so un-grey/un-problematic he wouldn't have had to have left to carry them out on his own. If it was so rosy you'd think he'd just confide in a high approval Lavellan or even in any high approval Inquisitor, even ask for help or support maybe. I think he thinks a lot of people won't agree with his plans. That's not the only reason he left, to be sure (for example he's also convinced that his way is the only way), but part of it imo.

[Sable Rhapsody]

We can assume for pretty much certain that Solas' plans, whatever they are, are based on the best intentions for elves (whichever subgroup of elves he considers to be his people, at any rate). We know this from "The People, they need me" and from the dev notes "In his drive to save the People, he will kill anyone, even Mythal" [they were something like that anyway]. He's definitely on the side of whoever he considers to be The People.

 

So much this.  I think the arc phrase for my canon playthrough has to be "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." 

[BoscoBread]

.......I think that is kinda unfair. Nothing guarantees to be "the best for Thedas as a whole". Whats good for elves may not be good for humans, etc etc...Conflicts are bound to arise due to the differentiation in identities and the limitation in resources available. To make everyone happy, you would either need unlimited resources or to unify their identities. So is converting everyone to the Qun the best for Thedas as a whole? Some people would never be able to live in such a system, but still, that is a lot less unhappy people compare to when there're international or inter-racial conflicts. So maybe converting everyone to the Qun does yield the highest percentage of happiness, though I personally would never support it. (There's a side note here, I won't support it because I know I won't survive in a Qun society. If I am in Thedas, could it be said that I am preventing the betterment of society due to self interest?)

 

Solas is an "Elven God" of the Elvhen race, although he cares about people in general, he made his "Elvhen" identity abundantly clear. I think it is safe to expect that whatever his plans are, they would be based on the interest of the Elvhen race. Would modern elves gain from that? More or less I think, as this is at the least a chance to shift the power balance toward them. Would humans gain from that? I doubt it, given that the humans are currently the most powerful and resourceful race on Thedas, any form of shifting the power balance away from them would likely not benefit them.

 

Playing as a pro-elf pro-magic elven inquisitor, I actually don't worry too much about what Solas may do. I don't know exactly what he is going to do, true, but I consider him more or less on the elf side.

But not all elves will be able to agree on what's best.  To make this wide-spread and sweeping decision -- which he appears to have done in the past FOR ELVES -- rarely ever goes well for anyone that does that.  Also, even my Lavellan would have an issue saying 'well **** you humans/dwarves/qunari. it's the elves time to shine'.    Again you can play it this way if you want, but I think the "best" option is the one where we're all fluffy and working together.  This game and the DLC has shown that trying to be divisive over racial differences and magic special-ness has done NOTHING but cause pain and problems.

 

So if all Solas is doing is trying to level the playing field, then yes, I will be right there with him.  Elves deserve to be equals and they are not.  If his plan is to raise up elves above all others because he needs to "fix" things, then pass.   And I actually disagree that it will be best for elves. It's just continuing that cycle that someone deserves to be better and dominant causing resentment and problems among the other races.  All you're doing is really just perpetuating the problem.

[Solas]

So much this.  I think the arc phrase for my canon playthrough has to be "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." 

This is the theme that Solas embodies, yes. He had good intentions in the past and look where that got him. He probably had good intentions giving the orb to Cory and look what that did. He currently looks to be setting out to correct his mistakes of old - again with the best of intentions, but again the result may not be good after all. He said in the dlc (on another subject, but still) "the more things change the more they stay the same"... [no spoiler tags because it's a minor thing and I'm not specifying what he said it in reference to] Solas buddy ur judgement skillz cud use some work xD

[Addai]

It doesn't do a lot of good to throw around hypotheticals about Solas' plans when we know bupkus about them.

The way she just laughed in her face though. It's a sensitive time with the break up and on top of that finding out all the values and beliefs you held were wrong. There should have been an option to tell Sera off. It was way too insensitive for a friend to say... but I guess Sera's Sera... 

Sera's a twelve year old child. Expecting her to react maturely to a sensitive situation is asking too much.

[Sable Rhapsody]

It doesn't do a lot of good to throw around hypotheticals about Solas' plans when we know bupkus about them.

 

No, but it's a lot more fun!  And a good alternative to sobbing in the hellspiral 

 

Sera's a twelve year old child. Expecting her to react maturely to a sensitive situation is asking too much.

 

Even a relatively young Inquisitor who's about Sera's age has to do a tremendous amount of growing up in a very short period of time.  Sera doesn't have to do that.  She gets to stay Sera, and I appreciate that even if it makes me want to strangle her sometimes.

[Solas]

It's just speculation for discussion's sake, which a lot of people find enjoyable or interesting. So long as we remember to state "this is just speculation/hypothetical" I don't see the problem.. theorycrafting is common in the DA fanbase and the devs leave lore hints and clues everywhere in the games to encourage just that. For me it's a nice change from "here's some fanart" and "come back to me my egg", too.. nothing wrong with either of those things (Solas fanworks are awesome and I consume them, and I'd love resolution to the Solavellan arc), just nice to mix it up. It's on-topic, too.

 

The fact that we know next to nothing about his plans is important to remember too though - I don't understand viewpoints like "I'd join and help him I'm not worried at all" [unless it's in a 'my Lavellan would do xyz' kind of way, that's RP so I get that] for the simple fact that we have no idea what it is he's trying to achieve, and it could easily be awesome OR awful, and we should bear that in mind.

[Elessara]

It's just speculation for discussion's sake, which a lot of people find enjoyable or interesting. So long as we remember to state "this is just speculation/hypothetical" I don't see the problem.. theorycrafting is common in the DA fanbase. 

 

The fact that we know next to nothing about his plans is important to remember too though - I don't understand viewpoints like "I'd join and help him I'm not worried at all" for the simple fact that we have no idea what it is he's trying to achieve, and it could easily be awesome OR awful, and we should bear that in mind.

 

Exactly.  I have no idea if my char(s) would join him or help him because I have no idea what he's doing/going to do/planning to do/thinking about doing/hoping to accomplish/wtfIdon'tevenknowwhattosaynow.  And that's one of the most frustrating things lol.

[Addai]

Even a relatively young Inquisitor who's about Sera's age has to do a tremendous amount of growing up in a very short period of time.  Sera doesn't have to do that.  She gets to stay Sera, and I appreciate that even if it makes me want to strangle her sometimes.

I don't find anything cute or charming about a child in a woman's body. It's rather sad, actually. I don't hate Sera, but I wish Bioware would stop using that trope for female elves.

I think I already covered that I don't play Lavellan as a naif, either. Probably has to do with being a little older myself. Teenage hero saving the world doesn't make a lot of sense hence doesn't appeal.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I don't find anything cute or charming about a child in a woman's body. It's rather sad, actually. I don't hate Sera, but I wish Bioware would stop using that trope for female elves.

 

Velanna was fine.  Grumpy, but fine.

 

And Merrill...I think I'm willing to cut Merrill a great deal more slack because she reminds me so much of what I was like when I was younger, and thought I knew everything there was to know about the world  It's harder to dislike a character who shares so many of your own faults.

[Nehn]

It's just speculation for discussion's sake, which a lot of people find enjoyable or interesting. So long as we remember to state "this is just speculation/hypothetical" I don't see the problem.. theorycrafting is common in the DA fanbase.

 

The fact that we know next to nothing about his plans is important to remember too though - I don't understand viewpoints like "I'd join and help him I'm not worried at all" for the simple fact that we have no idea what it is he's trying to achieve, and it could easily be awesome OR awful.

 

i don't know ... i'm still pretty confident i'd go along with allllmost any plan he has

depends on how many lives could be lost or the longterm effects it has 

 

IF i have to stop him from going through with heinous plans and theres a battle ... it's going to be 100% my inquisitor is going to let him kill her. NOPE. not fighting Solas. gimme a game over. going to be so sad. write a fan fiction. move on from dragon age 

 

edit: that actually sounds like an awesome ending. dramatic, but something that could move people. i kinda like it actually ... 

but could my inquisitor throw everything away for him? hmmmm 

[Solas]

I will never understand the kind of mindset you are describing so we're at an impasse (which is okay, a diversity of opinions in a fanbase is normal).

[Catfishers]

The fact that we know next to nothing about his plans is important to remember too though - I don't understand viewpoints like "I'd join and help him I'm not worried at all" [unless it's in a 'my Lavellan would do xyz' kind of way, that's RP so I get that] for the simple fact that we have no idea what it is he's trying to achieve, and it could easily be awesome OR awful, and we should bear that in mind.

 

I'm so torn on this fact. I'm very into RPing my characters and creating defined personalities and backgrounds for them. And while my Lavellan is deeply frustrated with her people and their apparent stagnation, she also feels completely duty-bound to help them, and I don't think she could put her own personal feelings before that. No matter what she feels for Solas, if she thought what he was doing was going to harm her people she would have to try and stop him. She'd kill him if she had to. 

 

And frankly I am really hoping it doesn't come to that, because if there's one thing I love, it's crying over star-crossed tragedy. I'd do it. I'd hate myself, but I'd do it. And I really just don't want to have the option of making myself that gloriously miserable.

[Nehn]

I will never understand the kind of mindset you are describing so we're at an impasse (which is okay, a diversity of opinions in a fanbase is normal).

ouuuuch lol 

i guess i'm not thinking it through entirely 

[Solas]

It's not a dig or a criticism, it's okay to agree to disagree. Just because I don't agree or understand doesn't mean you haven't thought it through entirely or properly. People think through things and come to different conclusions sometimes, and that's fine.

[BoscoBread]

ouuuuch lol 

i guess i'm not thinking it through entirely 

No. You are. It's just how you play. People just play differently and philosophies are different.  LIke SolasOP, I literally cannot comprehend playing a character that will 'burn the world to the ground' to be with the one they love. It's so far beyond anything that I would actually do.  It's not a criticism or "you're doing it wrong", it's just where we as players diverge. Which is interesting. 

[Mims]

This is somewhat unrelated, but I do wish DA would incorporate some 'non-canon' endings into the game. Remember when we could go full evil with Revan? It would be impossible to work that into some long, over-arching story, but I'd be all for some random side paths for RP's sake. 

 

Like, lets say Solas turns out to be looking to make Arlathan 2.0. As far as bioware's canon goes, that probably can't happen. But it would be amazing if we could have an AU ending where an elven Inquisitor is like: "You know what, that is a good idea. Sign me up." 

 

I don't actually think that's what's happening with Solas, mind you. I just wish we had more opportunities for some crazy epilogues. I loved that if you died when Envy was possessing you, you did get sort of a neat epilogue of what happened. More of that! 

[Illyria]

This is somewhat unrelated, but I do wish DA would incorporate some 'non-canon' endings into the game. Remember when we could go full evil with Revan? It would be impossible to work that into some long, over-arching story, but I'd be all for some random side paths for RP's sake. 

 

Like, lets say Solas turns out to be looking to make Arlathan 2.0. As far as bioware's canon goes, that probably can't happen. But it would be amazing if we could have an AU ending where an elven Inquisitor is like: "You know what, that is a good idea. Sign me up." 

 

I don't actually think that's what's happening with Solas, mind you. I just wish we had more opportunities for some crazy epilogues. I loved that if you died when Envy was possessing you, you did get sort of a neat epilogue of what happened. More of that! 

 

I want that.  ME2 had something like that - if you screwed up and got everyone (including Shepard) killed then you couldn't import the save game into ME3.  And the DLC Arrival had a non-canon bad ending if you let the timer run out, as did Overlord if you didn't complete the final fight in time.

[Shari'El]

... I loved that if you died when Envy was possessing you, you did get sort of a neat epilogue of what happened. More of that!

You... You did?