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Solas Thread - NOW OFFICIALLY MOVED to Cyonan's BSN (link in OP)


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#92851
Cee

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I feel like this is basically me every time I romance Anders in DA2. Like… you can stay with your LI, but you should know that I respect you less now.

 

 

My world state includes a Hawke who ran off with Anders. I found it an interesting story choice. Obviously, he did something terrible, but she loved him and he was also not wholly himself, even if the desire to do something to act for mage freedom was his in concept. I find that the option to leave him alive and run off together was something most games probably wouldn't give you, given what it means for Hawke too.

 

So there's that.


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#92852
Catfishers

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My world state includes a Hawke who ran off with Anders. I found it an interesting story choice. Obviously, he did something terrible, but she loved him and he was also not wholly himself, even if the desire to do something to act for mage freedom was his in concept. I find that the option to leave him alive and run off together was something most games probably wouldn't give you, given what it means for Hawke too.

 

So there's that.

 

Agreed. My Hawke lost her whole family and, while she didn't agree with Anders' methods, she was very pro-mage. Also, I think at that point she was just kind of done with Kirkwall. Done with the trying and the failing.

 

So there's always wiggle room in my mind for characters to like… drop their bundles and hustle off with their lovers. I just have to be able to write it into the story. As for Solas? My Lavellan would never go for genocide, but a spot of vengeance? Possibly.


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#92853
Addai

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I can't speak for anyone else, but my confusion comes from the "I don't care if he murders half of thedas, i need my EGG-BAE again".  Walking through a magic mirror is different.  I would totally leave with Solas.  100%.  But that's a far cry from genocide - which people are saying they'd commit in his name as if he's some sort of demon-god.

I don't think that's what Solas' plans will entail, for one, and for another, a lot of people thought Morrigan was up to no good. So if it's ambiguous, then sure, I'm going to have Lavellan go with him if she can. The story must go on.

 

I really don't see Bioware setting it up to where there's a black and white big-bad evil choice or else you need to try to kill Solas. At least, I hope it's more grey than that.


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#92854
Cee

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I'm not so sure! One could argue the Architect is a pretty major character to be left in a state of flux. Only problem is acknowledging those choices in a fulfilling way, which bioware is somewhat less adept at. 

 

But I don't actually think Solas living or not living would really have as big an impact as you'd think. As you said, Solas doesn't have that much control. I think he often appears to be more control than he is. He's ancient, but on the other hand he's basically just a really smart guy in a burning building. That's great and all, but the building is still on fire. 

 

 

Kve8OZV.jpg

Like, yes, she loves you, Solas, but it does depend what your plans are and whether this time you've truly considered the potential consequences or not.



#92855
Maria13

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I could see us having to kill Solas...his body may die, but his soul is eternal.

 

Who cares about his soul? I like his body and I want him to keep it.... Next to mine.   :o


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#92856
Illyria

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I RP it, though my canon Lavellan has a bit of me in there too. I feel like her personality is a bit similar to mine in that most of the 'sincere' top options fit, but sometimes she just feels like humor would be appropriate and so the sassier option gets picked. In terms of approval, it all shook out in the right place anyway for Solas, but that was because I chose to play a character that was pro mage and pro freedom and made measured decisions. So it just kind of worked naturally for him, which felt good.

 

My Lavellan tends to get a lot of disproval from Solas due to my dislike of tailoring my playthrough to my LI.  Sorry, Solas.  I'm not going to exile the Wardens in the hope you'll grab my butt again.


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#92857
phaonica

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I feel like this is basically me every time I romance Anders in DA2. Like… you can stay with your LI, but you should know that I respect you less now.

 

And I've felt like this is me doing the DR in DAO. Ultimately it kind of depends on the magnitude of the risk. I think that building a story where the PC has a weakness or a fatal flaw or has various options to fail are all fine, so long as the player recognizes that what their character did was ... less than heroic.


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#92858
Cee

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My Lavellan tends to get a lot of disproval from Solas due to my dislike of tailoring my playthrough to my LI.  Sorry, Solas.  I'm not going to exile the Wardens in the hope you'll grab my butt again.

 

I've played my canons as pro-mage throughout, and it was through no planning that my Lavellan meshed so well with Solas. It just made that decision both easier and ultimately, more heartbreaking. I don't tailor the decisions to the LI either. I don't even choose who to romance until I've played for a while, since I just pick whoever draws me in and then consider the whole picture.

 

I have another Lavellan, this time planned to romance Solas, who will be making some different decisions, so we'll see where those choices fall.



#92859
BoscoBread

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I don't think that's what Solas' plans will entail, for one, and for another, a lot of people thought Morrigan was up to no good. So if it's ambiguous, then sure, I'm going to have Lavellan go with him if she can. The story must go on.

 

I really don't see Bioware setting it up to where there's a black and white big-bad evil choice or else you need to try to kill Solas. At least, I hope it's more grey than that.

I was being hyperbolic and mostly speaking to the mindset that confuses me. 

 

I actually agree with you, I think whatever he's going to do is going to challenge the player's morals.  I think in an abstract way his goal will be very admirable.  What he wants will probably be good.  It's how he's always likely been.   I just think the means to that goal is going to be unsavory.  I don't want to kill Solas, if it's an OPTION then definitely(you know you'd want to do it just to see).  If he has to die then I don't want it to be because he's evil.  I want it to be because he he's doing good and his life finally meant something good.  OR ride off into the sunset on a rainbow farting unicorn. 


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#92860
Cee

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Also, my current playlist contains tiny bits of hellspiraling since it's k.d. lang, who I got back into once they released that blog of what music the writers wrote to and Patrick Weekes cited her version of Hallelujah for Solas. Since then I've been listening to a lot of her music on and off.



#92861
Siha

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...that my ... Inquisitor was one questionable decision away from becoming what most of Thedas would consider a super villain. ... where Solas actually has to stop Lavellan ... where the player is the antagonist and doesn't even realize it.

 

I might completely misunderstand the issue, but what Taelaa wrote here has nothing to do with being submissive or dependent. What she suggested had not occurred to me before, so I cannot claim to be particularly fond of it. But now that I start to think about it I am interested. What she suggests is:

 

Give the Inquisitor too little information, throw her into a situation where she is forced to make decisions without actually being suited to do so. Let her believe -- which the player will, because we never know what will happen in the future -- that she is the hero. And then later on show that her decisions did not improve the world, quite to the contrary. I actually like this.

 

I played a game once that made an attempt. You played a wrecked FBI agent, used to be a hero but cracked due to some bad experiences. Started to drink and turn into an a**hole. Then you are tasked with saving the world, because that's what people do when they still believe in you, right? (There were some holes in the story writing, unfortunately, but let's ignore this for now.) So you set out to save the world from aliens and impress everybody, show that you still got it. But then at some point the player suddenly has to realize that it was all a hoax. He never recovered, he never was the hero. In fact, he is just that stupid a**hole everybody thought he was, and he's completely lost his marbles. (I will spare you the twist here.) So you switch characters and have to save the world in another body, even fighting that wrecked ex-agent. It was executed rather poorly (not too bad though) but I liked the basic idea.

 

What Taelaa suggested is different from the game I just talked about, but that's not the point now. I think it still goes into that direction I mentioned, it is not about being a puppet or having been unimportant all along. It is about making decisions to the best of your knowledge, only that your knowledge simply wasn't good enough.

Or assume you were actually the villain all along, only the player did not know it because nobody explicitly told us. The player just assumed s/he wanted to do good, but the protagonist never had such intentions.

 

However, I don't see BW doing that. It would be too difficult in an RPG, I think. Or at least I don't see how it should work. And usually the audience isn't open-minded enough for that because it contradicts the full-control approach. But still, Taelaa did not speak about anything submissive/dependent/devout/etc.


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#92862
Sable Rhapsody

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And I've felt like this is me doing the DR in DAO. Ultimately it kind of depends on the magnitude of the risk. I think that building a story where the PC has a weakness or a fatal flaw or has various options to fail are all fine, so long as the player recognizes that what their character did was ... less than heroic.


This is pretty much what I did in DA2 with the Hawke who drank the Anders Kool-aid and went into a tailspin after Leandra died. Heroic? No. Awesome RP experience though, and though I wouldn't do it again with Lavellan, I would recommend trying an RP like that at some point.
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#92863
Illyria

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I've played my canons as pro-mage throughout, and it was through no planning that my Lavellan meshed so well with Solas. It just made that decision both easier and ultimately, more heartbreaking. I don't tailor the decisions to the LI either. I don't even choose who to romance until I've played for a while, since I just pick whoever draws me in and then consider the whole picture.

 

I have another Lavellan, this time planned to romance Solas, who will be making some different decisions, so we'll see where those choices fall.

 

My Lavellan was intended for Sera but flirting with her seemed really forced while Solas and Lavellan clicked.  Every choice I made seemed to give him approval and Sera disapproval.  Even though I'd hadn't flirted with him at all when I saw that 'kiss him' option I had to take it.



#92864
phaonica

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Give the Inquisitor too little information, throw her into a situation where she is forced to make decisions without actually being suited to do so. Let her believe -- which the player will, because we never know what will happen in the future -- that she is the hero. And then later on show that her decisions did not improve the world, quite to the contrary. I actually like this.

 

I played a game once that made an attempt. You played a wrecked FBI agent, used to be a hero but cracked due to some bad experiences. Started to drink and turn into an a**hole. Then you are tasked with saving the world, because that's what people do when they still believe in you, right? (There were some holes in the story writing, unfortunately, but let's ignore this for now.) So you set out to save the world from aliens and impress everybody, show that you still got it. But then at some point the player suddenly has to realize that it was all a hoax. He never recovered, he never was the hero. In fact, he is just that stupid a**hole everybody thought he was, and he's completely lost his marbles. (I will spare you the twist here.) So you switch characters and have to save the world in another body, even fighting that wrecked ex-agent. It was executed rather poorly (not too bad though) but I liked the basic idea.

 

What Taelaa suggested is different from the game I just talked about, but that's not the point now. I think it still goes into that direction I mentioned, it is not about being a puppet or having been unimportant all along. It is about making decisions to the best of your knowledge, only that your knowledge simply wasn't good enough.

Or assume you were actually the villain all along, only the player did not know it because nobody explicitly told us. The player just assumed s/he wanted to do good, but the protagonist never had such intentions.

 

However, I don't see BW doing that. It would be too difficult in an RPG, I think. Or at least I don't see how it should work. And usually the audience isn't open-minded enough for that because it contradicts the full-control approach. But still, Taelaa did not speak about anything submissive/dependent/devout/etc.

 

I like this idea, too, that the player is going about doing their thing as the "hero" only to slowly discover that they are actually the antagonist of the story. I'd love that.

 

And I do think that it could be done without feeling helpless or having your agency removed or feeling manipulated.

 

What game are you referring to, btw? That sounds interesting.


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#92865
Catfishers

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I think whatever he's going to do is going to challenge the player's morals.  I think in an abstract way his goal will be very admirable.  What he wants will probably be good.  It's how he's always likely been.   

 

I definitely think his intentions are admirable. He made a mistake and now he wants to fix it. But it remains to be seen whether putting things back on the track he intended is actually good for modern Thedas. It's one thing to intend to shape civilisation a certain way when it's going to evolve in that direction naturally, but to try to affect that change now, so many ages later, could prove disastrous. 

 

Edit: Not that I don't want to save the elves or anything. I want everything to work out roses. It's just a complex problem, and one that's hard to really discuss when we're basing it on almost no evidence.


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#92866
Cee

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I was being hyperbolic and mostly speaking to the mindset that confuses me. 

 

I actually agree with you, I think whatever he's going to do is going to challenge the player's morals.  I think in an abstract way his goal will be very admirable.  What he wants will probably be good.  It's how he's always likely been.   I just think the means to that goal is going to be unsavory.  I don't want to kill Solas, if it's an OPTION then definitely(you know you'd want to do it just to see).  If he has to die then I don't want it to be because he's evil.  I want it to be because he he's doing good and his life finally meant something good.  OR ride off into the sunset on a rainbow farting unicorn. 

 

I'm out of likes, but yes, all of this. It will probably present some degree of challenge. He's often had good intentions that just worked out very, very badly.

 

Ultimately, whatever happens, and I trust the writers to not be cheap with it, given they've taken three games to seed various bits and stories about tradition, gods, and Fen'Harel and then had him by your side the whole time, to just suddenly drop the ball.

 

That said, whatever happens, I want him to be at peace in some way. He's such a tragic character with so much pain and that vilification and other things have made him weary and isolated. I want him to reach some sort of peace. I hope my Lavellan will learn the truth, but even if she doesn't, if we, the players, can see Solas achieve something that puts him at peace, even if the elves don't necessarily give up their beliefs all of a sudden and declare Fen'Harel misunderstood, that will be enough for me.


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#92867
Cee

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My Lavellan was intended for Sera but flirting with her seemed really forced while Solas and Lavellan clicked.  Every choice I made seemed to give him approval and Sera disapproval.  Even though I'd hadn't flirted with him at all when I saw that 'kiss him' option I had to take it.

 

I thought I might have her romance Sera, but I only took a couple of flirt options with any of the characters (one with Iron Bull for comedy's sake, once with someone else, maybe Sera, and a couple of times with Solas due to just how well they clicked. After a while, still in Haven, the only flirt options I had her take were with Solas, so naturally "kiss him" was irresistible.

 

Sera and her reaction to both elves and some other stuff made it harder but I was just way more naturally drawn to Solas myself too.


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#92868
Nehn

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Just announced Jaws of Hakkon won't come out to other platforms until MAY 

 

I am so glad I returned to my PC T_T



#92869
Catfishers

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Just announced Jaws of Hakkon won't come out to other platforms until MAY 

 

I am so glad I returned to my PC T_T

 

I'm weirdly comforted by this, since it means I can just go ahead and finish my current playthrough and still have a comfortable amount of buffer time before starting again.

 

Edit: Also it'll be closer to my birthday so… even more reason to stay home by myself eating chips like I wanted to.



#92870
CapricornSun

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Just announced Jaws of Hakkon won't come out to other platforms until MAY 

 

Yup yup! ;___;

 

 

Dragon Age ‏@dragonage

CONFIRMED: Dragon Age: Inquisition – Jaws of Hakkon comes to all other platforms in May! http://bit.ly/1CDvXCw 

 

CBW3P1UWQAAFuQc.jpg

 

 

So PS4, PS3, and Xbox 360 owners still have to wait one more month! D:



#92871
Heidirs

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At this rate we're going to need to start an "Elfaholics Anonymous" or something.

 

I second this!


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#92872
Maria13

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I might completely misunderstand the issue, but what Taelaa wrote here has nothing to do with being submissive or dependent. What she suggested has not occurred to me before, so I cannot claim to be particularly fond of it. But now that I start to think about it I am interested. What she suggests is:

 

Give the Inquisitor too little information, throw her into a situation where she is forced to make decisions without actually being suited to do so. Let her believe -- which the player will, because we never know what will happen in the future -- that she is the hero. And then later on show that her decisions did not improve the world, quite to the contrary. I actually like this.

 

I played a game once that made an attempt. You played a wrecked FBI agent, used to be a hero but cracked due to some bad experiences. Started to drink and turn into an a**hole. Then you are tasked with saving the world, because that's what people do when they still believe in you, right? (There were some holes in the story writing, unfortunately, but let's ignore this for now.) So you set out to save the world from aliens and impress everybody, show that you still got it. But then at some point the player suddenly has to realize that it was all a hoax. He never recovered, he never was the hero. In fact, he is just that stupid a**hole everybody thought he was, and he's completely lost his marbles. (I will spare you the twist here.) So you switch characters and have to save the world in another body, even fighting that wrecked ex-agent. It was executed rather poorly (not too bad though) but I liked the basic idea.

 

 

That wasn't Max Payne was it?



#92873
NightSymphony

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May...  also when Black Emporium is supposed to come out.  *sighs* 



#92874
Cee

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I guess that makes sense. I think it was a month's exclusivity. Early May for both, I'd guess.



#92875
BoscoBread

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May...  also when Black Emporium is supposed to come out.  *sighs* 

I think in May sometime as well.