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[yetanothername]

Remember when Solas thanks Cole for reminding him that he is not a spirit? Why would any unjoined person need this reminder? At first I thought, "Solas you fade nerd...you just wanna be cool like your friends."

 

With the context, I took it a little differently. Cole was telling him he didn't need to envy Cole's happiness, that Solas could find his own, that 'they' weren't gone so long as he remembered them. I interpreted the "I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths," not so much literally as "I forget," as "as much as I wish I could be like xyz, we are fundamentally different beings, with different perspectives/needs/etc." Simple. Uncomplicated. Just being. Like Compassion being able to forgive, for example.

 

Don't think anyone's really made a definite case-closed argument against sharing, though, or him being Shartan-age (or Shartan himself), just not the most favored around.

 

(Assuming that was the part you were talking about... if not, well. I return to the cave.)

[Catfishers]

This is a theory we tend to come back to every so often around here.

 

Personally, I'm Team Lone Wolf.  Solas was the Dread Wolf in Arlathan, and he's the Dread Wolf now.  No possession, no body swapping.  Just one very powerful elven mage.

 

Another for Team Lone Wolf here.

 

Much as the spirit-possession theory is totally plausible, I feel like it's been done now to a point where making it a major plot point again would just be naff. Also: these games have been winding up to deal with mad elf biz for ages now, and Solas as literal Fen'Harel fits with that a lot better.

[Illyria]

*pushes terrible fanfiction into the thread*

 

I'm aware that some of this is quite clunky, but it's my first time really trying to write Solas' voice.  It's also part of a slightly longer thing about Lavellan's birthday.

 

Spoiler

 

Gifts

 

We hear stories of them living in trees and imagine wooden ramps or Dalish Aravels. Imagine instead spires of crystal twining through the branches, places floating among the clouds. Imagine beings who lived forever, for whom magic was as natural as breathing. That is what we lost.

But no description could do it justice, or show the way the trees were as much a part of the city as they were nature, their great branches growing around the towers, supporting them and forming paths between them that were both natural and created. No roads, nothing to transport goods or traffic. The ancient elves had favoured something far less mundane.

‘This is what our people once were, vhenan.’

‘It’s….’ Lavellan had no idea what she could even say, so she settled on the simple, ‘ma serannas.’ There was nothing more that could be said, except: ‘This beats Varric’s gift and that was his complete works. And they were signed!’ This caused Solas to laugh, that short, joyful sound Lavellan loved. ‘And, I should add, that included Swords and Shields. Which we’re going to have to read together later. So, are we going to look around? Or enjoy the view?’

‘Exploring here would be’ Solas paused, thinking, ‘unwise. This memory is ancient. Fragile. I am uncertain of the consequences.’

Lavellan shrugged, ‘I bow to your expertise, hahren. Just seeing this… it’s more… I don’t even know what to say.’

Solas took her hand in his and the two elves shared a smile.

‘Staying here with you,’ Lavellan continued, ‘that sounds perfect.’

In the Fade, however, ‘here’ is a difficult concept to define. They weren’t anywhere, standing on air (or the memory of air) a few feet away from the nearest tower. They were close enough to one of the tree branch walkways that Lavellan could have taken a couple of paces forward and reached out to touch the wolf-headed statue that stood there, overlooking Arlathan.

But she was content to just observe.

The statue moved its head.

‘Creators!'

‘What is it?’

‘That moved! I thought it was a statue.’

‘I believe it is an elf.’ Solas was amused. She knew the others found it hard to tell when he was joking sometimes, but Lavellan could always hear it in his voice.

‘Thank you’ she replied, rolling her eyes, ‘Where would I be without the wisdom of my elder?’

The figure was wearing a cloak made of wolf furs, the head of the wolf forming the hood of the cloak and shadowing their face.

‘I wonder if this is their memory.’

‘I believe you may be right.’

‘You said this was a fragment. All these thousands of years, and this lasts. I wonder why?’

‘A moment that seems inconsequential to others could be for another a moment of perfect inspiration, or clarity.  Any number of things.’

‘I wonder what this was one was?’ Lavellan smiled, ‘probably something dull. Maybe… ‘I forgot to eat lunch’ or ‘this wolf head is really heavy, why didn’t I think of that when I got it?’’

That got another laugh from Solas, ‘Perhaps. We may never know.’ He sounded relaxed, but he held her hand tightly as they observed the ancient memory.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Spoiler

blech, David Gaider deleted his tumblr or i would find the reply

but he was talking about people who wanted to romance their "ali-bear" and have him be their "fluffy wuffy cuddle bunny" for the rest of the game and that was somehow bad and he wanted it to change.

you don't think the way they handled Jacob was a little bit spiteful?

Spoiler

I think David Gaider's just being human when he snarks about fandom. Lord knows I would in his shoes And I think ME3 had fundamental problems and some bad story choices, Jacob's in particular. But without knowing the people and circumstances involved, I don't think I'd assume they were being deliberately spiteful. I'd prefer to give the devs the benefit of the doubt.

[Illyria]

Spoiler

blech, David Gaider deleted his tumblr or i would find the reply

 

but he was talking about people who wanted to romance their "ali-bear" and have him be their "fluffy wuffy cuddle bunny" for the rest of the game and that was somehow bad and he wanted it to change. 

 

you don't think the way they handled Jacob was a little bit spiteful?

 

Whenever I read something Gaider writes, I always assume hie's being sarcastic.  As much as I love Alistair, I have to remember that this is the man who also wrote Morrigan.

[The Oracle]

ME was a game with characters I was totally invested in. Especially after ME2. They had gone through so much crap, and doubt, and everything. It would be...I don't know. Imagine Lord of the Rings. After reading the first two books, you get to the end and what actually happens is...Frodo dies. Sam is left on the volcano, lava creeping up and you know he's probably going to die in agony cause no eagles are coming. Sauron's army becomes mindless, yes, but at that moment, the ground caves in and Aragorn, Gandalf and all the rest are swallowed whole. The loss and devastation is massive, there is no king for the throne, most places are destroyed or destitute. Saruman enslaves the Hobbits cause no-one is around to prevent it. Arwen dies sad and alone after choosing mortality.

 

Great evil defeated = check!

A satisfying conclusion = eh...nope!

 

That's what it felt like to me. I don't need all happy happy but after everything they've went through, you need even the smallest chance of a happy conclusion. 

[dawnstone]

 

If Solas is a joined entity (like Anders or Flemeth) and not an 8000 year old elf mage/god I think this gives us hope for a positive conclusion. The question is who loves Lavellan? The elf, the spirit, or the new entity? Which might be left in the end? The tarot card might indicate a romanced Solas would be willing to try to "unjoin" himself from the spirit, if possible. I just hope he doesn't try to trick us into collecting bomb ingredients like Anders! Hmmm...I'll probably change my mind about this next week. 

There's in my opinion, a good chance that he's already pulled an Anders on us by having us re-activate all of those Elven artifacts. I have the feeling that together they have not only the power to strengthen the Veil but to manipulate it or even collapse it. And he's probably the only one alive who knows how to use them.

 

Definitely think he's the original Dread Wolf, he just says too many things that mark him out, not to mention he even says to Abelas at the temple that he is Elvhen like him, another ancient elf.

[Catfishers]

Definitely think he's the original Dread Wolf, he just says too many things that mark him out, not to mention he even says to Abelas at the temple that he is Elvhen like him, another ancient elf.

 

It also seemed that Flemeth, Anders, and Wynne all spoke and behaved separately from their respective spirits. When they talked about the past lives of those spirits, they didn't talk about them like they'd actually been there.

 

Additionally, Solas shares a lot more physical commonalities with Abelas than he does with any modern elves.

[Elira]

I don't like you people right now.

 

I'm kidding. But seriously, you're all sending my emotions off a metaphorical cliff and into a dark abyss of enhanced feels. Also, I'm at the point of feeling as if my life is over (not really) after being done with my second Solasmance playthrough. I ended up halting it right before the Arbor Wilds, partly because of the chance of future DLC content being before the end and there being Solas content. If they aren't, then I'll finish the game before diving in. Partly, also, I'm putting it off because I'm rather nervous about the possible implications from drinking from the Well. I don't mind being bitten in the butt, but if those implications go from a bite to a maul, I'll be rethinking my course of action. Thankfully my Quizzy would do either-or. On one hand, yes, Morrigan has Kieran, and drinking it should be Quizzy's responsibility, all things considered. On the other, Morrigan truly desires it, and my Lavellan isn't all that comfortable with being bound unpredictably to a (as far she she knows then) silent god. Basically it will be a matter of whether my Lavellan's mothering, protective nature wins out, or whether the want to please Morrigan alongside definitely preserving her personal freedom does. Decisions, decisions.

 

I think I'll end up finally getting around doing my male Lavellan for Cass. Although, knowing how things typically go for me, she'll end up Divine. Pffft. I enjoy leaving who ends up as Divine to fate, in a sense. I never do anything to turn things to a specific course. More fun that way. 

 

Also, spoilers for DLC, but I'm curious.

 

Spoiler

Has this been found by anyone else here and discussed yet? I can't recall, but it's intrigued me to no end. I wonder if it's just trolling, or not.

[Cee]

There's in my opinion, a good chance that he's already pulled an Anders on us by having us re-activate all of those Elven artifacts. I have the feeling that together they have not only the power to strengthen the Veil but to manipulate it or even collapse it. And he's probably the only one alive who knows how to use them.

 

Definitely think he's the original Dread Wolf, he just says too many things that mark him out, not to mention he even says to Abelas at the temple that his is Elvhen like him, another ancient elf.

 

Mihris, who is from The Masked Empire, is someone you can encounter in The Hinterlands and trigger Solas' quest with the artifacts. She states they strengthen the Veil, so we have another source. Also, there's no reason Solas wants the Veil to be weakened and tear, because even if the theory is correct that he wishes to remove the Veil completely, leaving weaknesses or tears only do what he is very much against - stressing out spirits and driving them to be pushed and turned to demons.
 

[Illyria]

I honestly don't think they're going to pull another Anders on us.  We've had the possessed LI who betrayed us storyline in DA2.  They're not going to repeat that one.

[Delphine]

This thread's title is missing a little... something-something.

[The Oracle]

Plus I don't think ANYONE had a positive thing to say about Anders betrayal. Hope they took that feedback to heart.

[Maria13]

So I was washing dishes and thinking about my "Solas theories." I guess you guys are spoiler taging DLC stuff. I don't have the DLC/haven't YouTubed it, so I think I'm safe.

 

New theory: Solas is not an ancient elf. He is an elf from the time of Shartan at the most. He's just playing host to a spirit (a new host taken after Shartan died or Shartan himself).

 

I was thinking about this because of Solas' end game tarot cards. One has a small Solas and a huge wolf...the other a large Solas and a small wolf. Perhaps this indicates which half of the joined entity (the spirit or the elf) is dominant. I know there are other ways to interpret the cards, but I think it works.

 

Remember when Solas thanks Cole for reminding him that he is not a spirit? Why would any unjoined person need this reminder? At first I thought, "Solas you fade nerd...you just wanna be cool like your friends." Now, I'm thinking he was having trouble reconciling with his two parts. Solas the fade nerd would rather be a spirit things are easier for him there. It explains Solas' internal conflict concerning Lavellan as well. He's literally of two minds. He can't have an arguement with the spirit within him, but perhaps their wills are somewhat in conflict nevertheless.

 

If Solas is a joined entity (like Anders or Flemeth) and not an 8000 year old elf mage/god I think this gives us hope for a positive conclusion. The question is who loves Lavellan? The elf, the spirit, or the new entity? Which might be left in the end? The tarot card might indicate a romanced Solas would be willing to try to "unjoin" himself from the spirit, if possible. I just hope he doesn't try to trick us into collecting bomb ingredients like Anders! Hmmm...I'll probably change my mind about this next week. 

 

I don't have any support for this but whereas I wouldn't wholly discount the idea of a spirit merge, if it did happen, Solas/Fen is so perfectly integrated as to make it irrelevant something like Flemythal, a perfect fusion... On the other hand I do think he has existed and may still exist as a spirit (but physical Solas and spirit Solas are still Solas), Cole says "you shine in both places..." My headcanon is that he chose to take physical form in order to do what he had to do, a bit like the game version of the encarnation, I guess my christian culture had to shine through somehow...

 

In my view the card shows two parts of his personality, the desperate potentially violent beast, a being that could wreak unsuspected havoc it if had to, and the civilized Elvhen brim full of culture and rationality, The Tower card:

 

Many differing meanings are attributed to the card:

To some, it symbolizes failure, ruin and catastrophe.
To others, the Tower represents the paradigms constructed by the ego, the sum total of all schema that the mind constructs to understand the universe. The Tower is struck by lightning when reality does not conform to expectation.
Epiphanies, transcendental states of consciousness, and Kundalini experiences[7] may result. In the Triple Goddess Tarot, the card is named "Kundalini Rising".
The Tower further symbolizes that moment in trance in which the mind actually changes the direction of the force of attention from alpha condition (pointed mindward) to theta condition (pointed imaginal stageward). A Theta condition (especially in waking versions of theta states) is that moment when information coming into the ego-mind overwhelms external or sensory stimuli, resulting in what might otherwise be called a "vision" or "hallucination."
Each card in the Major Arcana is a related to the previous ones. After the self bondage of The Devil, life is self-correcting. Either the querents must make changes in their own lives, or the changes will be made for them.
The querent may be holding on to false ideas or pretenses; a new approach to thinking about the problem is needed. The querent is advised to think outside the box. The querent is warned that truth may not oblige schema. It may be time for the querent to re-examine belief structures, ideologies, and paradigms they hold to. The card may also point toward seeking education or higher knowledge.
As stated above, this card often features lightning in the background; the lightning is a sign that current values and hierarchies are about to be toppled, transforming the querent and/or the situation, and upheaval is imminent. Many agree that while this change may often be difficult, it doesn't necessarily need to be a bad thing—it could be a change for the better.[8]

 

 

From this I take the one of the main interpretations of this card appears to be the failure of intellectual plans and the chaos that could ensue once this happens, should his plans fail Solas, according to this card, risks having to resort to savagery, becoming the beast.

 

The other card is The Hierophant: 

 

The card stands for religion and orthodox theology. It also represents traditional education or a “Man of high social standing”. These interpretations merely scratch the surface of the card. The Pope card also represents the Biblical story of God’s creation of man and woman. He is can also associated with the Deceiver and with Power over others.

Some interpretations also suggest a link between the card and the myth of Isis and Osiris, a claim made about many cards.[citation needed] Some say the card corresponds to the astrological sign of Taurus, others Leo.[2] Yet another association is with the sign Cancer.[citation needed] In non-Western cultures (Native American, Siberian) the Hierophant retains the role as spiritual guide, wearing here the mask of a shaman who is also the teacher of holy things.[citation needed] In Native America, the mythological association is with the Coyote or Trickster God, one who is a teacher, a benefactor for the spiritual student, but who is often playful or mischievous.

The Hierophant is the card representing organized religion — any organized religion.[citation needed] Its positive and negative aspects are those associated with that religion.

“Hierophant” literally means “the one who teaches the holy things”. Ideally, the Hierophant prepares the Querant spiritually for the adventure of life. The card also represents individuation or the point where a child starts to understand the boundaries between Self and Other, family and the community.[citation needed] This is the point where the individual starts constructing his or her own identity, consciously, unconsciously, or as shaped by exterior forces.

The Hierophant is usually Key 5 of the Major Arcana. Five represents the essence of things as they are, as in the word “quintessence” from the Latin words for five and for nature.[citation needed] It is also the number of the senses: sight, hearing, taste, feeling, and smell. The Hierophant sits on a throne straddling the world of the senses and the world of meaning.

It is related through cross sums (the sum of the digits) with Key 14: Temperance. The Hierophant presents the lessons of heaven to earth. Temperance guides the soul from this world to the underworld.

Some authorities[who?] say that the Hierophant generally represents assistance, friendship, good advice, alliances (including marriages), and religious interests. Reversed; it often refers to bad advice, lies, and persecution.

 

 

On the other hand should his plans succeed or should love eventually redeem him he has the potential to become a teacher, a spiritual guide, on the card, Solas carries a staff, the oldest symbol of authority, the wolf is white and looks more like a sheep, Solas is the shepherd...

 

Perhaps by romancing him, we saved him?

[Illyria]

This thread's title is missing a little... something-something.

 

I think it should go back to the Solas Recovery Wing.

[Heidirs]

I think I am more taken aback by - how many years later - people are still so upset by this game.  I DON'T UNDERSTAND.  I really don't. I'm not judging - it may sound like it - it's more that I am so confused.  It wasn't that awful. 

 

This video explains it best. I didn't play all three games, but I'd be pretty upset too.

 

https://youtu.be/6M0Cf864P7E

[DarthEmpress]

I think my favorite Solas' dialogue is: "But I am reasonably certain we are awake now..."

 

Just the way he says it makes me tingle ahaha 

[Heidirs]

I think my favorite Solas' dialogue is: "But I am reasonably certain we are awake now..."

 

Just the way he says it makes me tingle ahaha 

 

I like that one too. 

[BoscoBread]

This video explains it best. I didn't play all three games, but I'd be pretty upset too.

 

https://youtu.be/6M0Cf864P7E

I've seen this. At the time, I got the rage. I was there. I was mad. I loved the series.  But it's 2015.  Witcher 3 is coming out.  It's about to be summer in NA.  Dragon Age DLC is almost a certainity with Solas at this point. There are beautiful and weird visual novels to play. It's like - YAY OTHER THINGS!  I dunno. I let go of the anger for ME3 and just resigned myself to enjoying the lovely small beats in the game that are worth revisting. Tuchanka/EDI/Citadel/Legion/Leviathan - all that stuff is worth it for me.   

[Catfishers]

I've seen this. At the time, I got the rage. I was there. I was mad. I loved the series.  But it's 2015.  Witcher 3 is coming out.  It's about to be summer in NA.  Dragon Age DLC is almost a certainity with Solas at this point. There are beautiful and weird visual novels to play. It's like - YAY OTHER THINGS!  I dunno. I let go of the anger for ME3 and just resigned myself to enjoying the lovely small beats in the game that are worth revisting. Tuchanka/EDI/Citadel/Legion/Leviathan - all that stuff is worth it for me.   

 

Always worth it for the Legion feels.

 

 

basically the cole of ME. most precious cinnamon bun.

[Dark_Rogue]

I think my favorite Solas' dialogue is: "But I am reasonably certain we are awake now..."

 

Just the way he says it makes me tingle ahaha 

I'm due for a DAI replay, but when does he say that?  I can't seem to recall it.

[Heidirs]

I've seen this. At the time, I got the rage. I was there. I was mad. I loved the series.  But it's 2015.  Witcher 3 is coming out.  It's about to be summer in NA.  Dragon Age DLC is almost a certainity with Solas at this point. There are beautiful and weird visual novels to play. It's like - YAY OTHER THINGS!  I dunno. I let go of the anger for ME3 and just resigned myself to enjoying the lovely small beats in the game that are worth revisting. Tuchanka/EDI/Citadel/Legion/Leviathan - all that stuff is worth it for me.   

 

Yeah, but when you really get invested in a series? I mean, it kind of becomes part of your life. And the creators of the series mess it up? That's something you invested, as the video says, five years of your life into. You don't just move on and get over it with the next big thing.

 

I can imagine how upset I'd be if Harry Potter had ended horribly. That was part of my life 10 years and still continues to influence it. You don't just move on from that. 

[dawnstone]

I honestly don't think they're going to pull another Anders on us.  We've had the possessed LI who betrayed us storyline in DA2.  They're not going to repeat that one.

He might not, but there have been a lot of hints dropped that he's going to instigate something that we might have been able to stop if he'd given us all the information.

 

Mihris, who is from The Masked Empire, is someone you can encounter in The Hinterlands and trigger Solas' quest with the artifacts. She states they strengthen the Veil, so we have another source. Also, there's no reason Solas wants the Veil to be weakened and tear, because even if the theory is correct that he wishes to remove the Veil completely, leaving weaknesses or tears only do what he is very much against - stressing out spirits and driving them to be pushed and turned to demons.
 

I'm just saying he's probably not telling the inquisitor everything that those things are capable of.

 

Also, I can't help but have the sense that he has some world-altering plans in store after that ending, and it's likely going to affect people on the ground and spirits alike.

[Cee]

I'm due for a DAI replay, but when does he say that?  I can't seem to recall it.

 

After the Fade kiss scene, when you go talk to him next.
 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Plus I don't think ANYONE had a positive thing to say about Anders betrayal. Hope they took that feedback to heart.

 

I liked it! But I also had a Hawke who didn't perceive Anders' actions as betrayal, who'd completely drunk the violent mage revolution Kool-Aid.  Most people didn't RP that hard  I don't have a problem with Anders blowing up the Chantry in concept, but its in-game execution was IMO sloppy.