153429 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Rhapsody]

Its because those who argue alot were scared away. If you were arguing here a few months ago, you would find quite a few protecting husbando. 

 

DLC spoilers:

 

Spoiler

Ameridan is now husbando and Best Elf to me.  Sorry, Solas and Felassan.  You just got usurped by the guy who's in-game for like five minutes  

[Dark_Rogue]

I'm glad I came late to the party then.

Discussion is fun and enlightening, arguing… not so much.

This is the main reason why I'm not active around the forums much, I used to be (before the big revamp) but after ME3 and DA2's endings, everything got really bad.  I just want to find a quiet place to fangirl in peace and discuss theories without being judged and attacked, that isn't too much to ask for

 

Everyone needs to learn to get along and take the sticks out of their asses *sings* "Why can't weeeeee beeeee friends?"

[Cee]

I sort of started reading some of the older posts from like....December before I really began posting (thanks to Google and me finishing the story at the end of January), and while the discussions there were denser and yes, sometimes more arguments, the way we can discuss things now while still being jovial and sometimes silly and also civil toward one another is a good way to draw someone back.

[Delphine]

Imma fight you on the tight ass.  He's got a bubble butt methinks. He's got a badonk.  IT'S ****** HUGE.  Go look at a side view. I'd still tap it, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

MY ANACONDA DON'T!

 

[Giton]

DLC spoilers:

 

Spoiler

Ameridan is now husbando and Best Elf to me.  Sorry, Solas and Felassan.  You just got usurped by the guy who's in-game for like five minutes  

 

Cory-bear husbando has usurped Solas. Yes. Corypheus. See also Falon's Din.

 

He totally got usurped, hard. 

 

[tsunamitigerdragon]

. 

[Siha]

Interesting he uses the past tense though...

 

Why interesting? Just logical. "I thought ... but now I know for sure." -- basically "I was blind but now I see". Hence of course past tense.

[Giton]

And don't forget the Thedas World Record challenge - climbing Lord Mount Evariste Lemarque Fairbanks.

With a savage Adaar.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I think this is a very interesting contradiction of Solas' beliefs, and one that's not even intention on his part. (Like many people in real life.) Solas seems to believe that greatness can come from anywhere, but not everyone is great. As he tells Bull in one party banter, "Your Qun would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!" For all his talk of valuing the individual, he seems to believe that most individuals within a group, culture or race actually fit the traits prescribed to them until shown otherwise.

 

One of the many contradictions in the character that results in me wanting to hug and/or deck him.  Depends on time of day, hellspiral condition, and how many cookies I've had among other factors 

[Illyria]

One of the many contradictions in the character that results in me wanting to hug and/or deck him.  Depends on time of day, hellspiral condition, and how many cookies I've had among other factors 

 

Pull a Jack and do both.

[Maria13]

I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about the fact that racists have historically had interest in the things that come out of the races and thereby cultures they otherwise despise. My great-grandfather who was a Spanish immigrant experienced intense racism. And yet, Don Quixote was taught in institutions of higher learning as an excellent work of literature for over two-three hundred years by that point.

 

No, i think this is an inherent contradiction... If you are truly racist you don't like Don Quixote, you don't even frigging know what it is or what it means... But, for the most part, genuinely educated people they are aware, they may not be fully engaged or fully supportive but they are aware that there are other cultures out there and that they have values.... This is how I see Solas... He is on the cusp of making the transition from awareness to realization...

 

I speak as a half English half Spanish person who lives in the UK. In the UK for the most part  you say add a noun to  "Spanish" (and most UK citizens wouldn't even know what a bloody noun was if it hit them over the head... Damn am I channeling Solas?) and you get "armada" (we beat them), inquisition (repression), practices (again, of course, negative, it means irregular or restrictive practices  in workers' interests, you think this would be positive, right? Well no, over here we are Thatcher's children and anything that undermines the holy cow of the market is considered to be negative). 

[laurelinvanyar]

I wont ever hesitate to call Solas racist. It might not be violent or even particularly enthusiastic, but he has a disturbingly casual disregard for almost every single cultural group in modern Thedas. Even when you romance him, he gives you the single most backhanded compliment.

 

On the other hand, he's the very last of his kind, as far as he knows. Modern elves have a culture that must seem so alien to him, even worse since he probably carries residual guilt for their past suffering. Modern elves are probably even  physiologically different, what with their faded connection to magic and their being perpetually underfed. 

 

I see his casual racism as a natural reaction to his shock and upset at the state of modern Thedas. It's less of a "UGH, Primitives" (though there's a bit of that too) a la Javik and more of a "Not my people" sort of mental rejection of present reality. 

 

TL;DR: Solas is racist, but I still love him. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

I see his casual racism as a natural reaction to his shock and upset at the state of modern Thedas. It's less of a "UGH, Primitives" (though there's a bit of that too) a la Javik and more of a "Not my people" sort of mental rejection of present reality. 

 

I also can't say with any certainty that I'd be better behaved or more tolerant in his shoes.  So there's only so much I can bag on him for it without feeling like a hypocrite.

[Siha]

I wont ever hesitate to call Solas racist. It might not be violent or even particularly enthusiastic, but he has a disturbingly casual disregard for almost every single cultural group in modern Thedas. 

 

So he's basically not a racist, he is simply a misanthrope.

[Rabbitonfire]

So he's basically not a racist, he is simply a misanthrope.

Sounds about right. The first synonym for that definition is Hater.

[Catfishers]

I wont ever hesitate to call Solas racist. It might not be violent or even particularly enthusiastic, but he has a disturbingly casual disregard for almost every single cultural group in modern Thedas. Even when you romance him, he gives you the single most backhanded compliment.

 

On the other hand, he's the very last of his kind, as far as he knows. Modern elves have a culture that must seem so alien to him, even worse since he probably carries residual guilt for their past suffering. Modern elves are probably even  physiologically different, what with their faded connection to magic and their being perpetually underfed. 

 

I see his casual racism as a natural reaction to his shock and upset at the state of modern Thedas. It's less of a "UGH, Primitives" (though there's a bit of that too) a la Javik and more of a "Not my people" sort of mental rejection of present reality. 

 

TL;DR: Solas is racist, but I still love him. 

 

And this is also what makes him a successful character. He's got all of these frustratingly prejudiced views sitting alongside what are arguably very noble convictions, and it's both obvious and understandable why he feels the way he does.

 

He does develop over the course of the game, forging friendships with the rest of the Inquisition and becoming more understanding of them and their cultures. But he still has a way to come.

 

He comes off as racist, but not cruelly so, and not irredeemably so. And he's more interesting as a character being this way than if he were just a saint from the start.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

No, i think this is an inherent contradiction... If you are truly racist you don't like Don Quixote, you don't even frigging know what it is or what it means... But, for the most part, genuinely educated people they are aware, they may not be fully engaged or fully supportive but they are aware that there are other cultures out there and that they have values.... This is how I see Solas... He is on the cusp of making the transition from awareness to realization...

 

I speak as a half English half Spanish person who lives in the UK. In the UK for the most part  you say add a noun to  "Spanish" (and most UK citizens wouldn't even know what a bloody noun was if it hit them over the head... Damn am I channeling Solas?) and you get "armada" (we beat them), inquisition (repression), practices (again, of course, negative, it means irregular or restrictive practices  in workers' interests, you think this would be positive, right? Well no, over here we are Thatcher's children and anything that undermines the holy cow of the market is considered to be negative). 

I think what I disagree with is your assumption that intellectual ignorance and racism go hand in hand. One can be incredibly educated while still holding beliefs or misconceptions about a race/ group of people that are morally and culturally bigoted. One is a failure of factual education or literacy, and the other a failure to humanize "the other."

Ethics is not the same as intelligence, nor is it education. One could be incredibly intelligent, and use that intelligence to justify experimentation on other human beings of a different ethnic group than their own. One could be highly educated or even study a cultural group academically, but despair the presence of a different cultural group "invading" their borders through immigration. And one could have less than a high school education and still experience empathy and understanding for those who are different.

EDIT:
SO ABOUT THAT SOLAS. If he's not a racist, he's a cultural chauvinist. Which is equally bad. But his failures are what make him human and interesting. SEE THE FIRE AND THE DISCUSSION.

[RogueBait]

Solas has this strange dichotomy where he values the individual, and yet categorizes most individuals that he encounters.

 

For example, he doesn't want to be seen as "just another elf," yet he assumes that every elf he comes across is "just another" intellectually and spiritually bankrupt shadow of what the People once were. That city elves are poverty-stricken perpetual victims who "cling to a few traditions to differentiate themselves from humans," and Dalish are bombastic, xenophobic "children acting out traditions they barely understand." Is it any wonder he's so shocked when Lavellan *gasp* displays some positive characteristics other than the negative he assumed was inherent in all Dalish? Same with an Inquisitor from any race; same with companions who went against his expectations of how they would act based on what he's heard of their race and background. (Surprise that Varric is so casual and surface-loving instead of a formal underground traditionalist, or that Cassandra is principled and altruistic instead of being like the "quicklings" of early Arlathan, or... yeah, that's it.)

 

The Herald can call him out on it too. When discussing elven culture, Solas will criticize the Dalish and city elves for holding onto traditions they barely understand. When the Inquisitor challenges him to share his knowledge, he'll argue that it would do no good since they would just react a certain way. The Herald then has the option to tell him that he just decided their reactions for them.

 

I think this is a very interesting contradiction of Solas' beliefs, and one that's not even intention on his part. (Like many people in real life.) Solas seems to believe that greatness can come from anywhere, but not everyone is great. As he tells Bull in one party banter, "Your Qun would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!" For all his talk of valuing the individual, he seems to believe that most individuals within a group, culture or race actually fit the traits prescribed to them until shown otherwise.

 

This. Solas seems to have a very "guilty until proven innocent" sort of mindset, doesn't he.

 

Edit: ToP Solas. And kind of on topic?

 

Spoiler

 

Source: http://limpstella.tu...om/tagged/comic

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

To clarify, are you saying that Solas's giving credit to Qun rhetoric is a good thing?

The rhetoric itself isn't good, but I don't think Solas can be faulted for deferring to a definition a people provide about themselves when he hasn't had any experience to the contrary at that point in time. I might be wrong, but I am under the impression that Adaar is the first Vashoth he's encountered.

[Meer]

No, i think this is an inherent contradiction... If you are truly racist you don't like Don Quixote, you don't even frigging know what it is or what it means...

I can't agree. There are so many ways that racism can manifest, and it's been argued that there are many shades. It's certainly possible to look down on or to completely simplify race and still appreciate works that come from a member of it, or even to romanticize them simultaneously. Take for example, the literary phenomena of the noble savage.

(Oh, Liz said it better!)

[Maria13]

Why interesting? Just logical. "I thought ... but now I know for sure." -- basically "I was blind but now I see". Hence of course past tense.

 

Because it's in the past... He could have equally said "I think humans are..." which would leave no room whatsoever for doubt... But he doesn't and Solas is a very careful user of language.

[The Oracle]

So he's basically not a racist, he is simply a misanthrope.

 

He does tend to focus on what he believes is the worst of every culture and talk about it endless. He never once seems to admit that, after everything they've been through, it's pretty impressive that the Elves retain any of their previous culture, even the bad bits. Or admit that surface Dwarves have done really well considering they've been exiled from such a closed off chaste system and forced to survive in an environment so far removed from where they originated. 

[Rabbitonfire]

Speaking of intellience and ethics, it reminds me of a quote: "Science isn't about WHY. It's about WHY NOT"

 

Like why the hell can't I make this incredibly dangerous but revolutionary machine? Stupid ethics, holding us back from greatness.

[yetanothername]

No, i think this is an inherent contradiction... If you are truly racist you don't like Don Quixote, you don't even frigging know what it is or what it means... But, for the most part, genuinely educated people they are aware, they may not be fully engaged or fully supportive but they are aware that there are other cultures out there and that they have values....

 

Don Quixote? Didn't some absolutely charming mongrel write that? Delightful, I would never have believed it could come out of one of those people, have you seen those little towns? How quaint, amazing he wasn't so polluted by incest that he couldn't be taught to write! We'll have to try with one of our little dogs. What was his name? Cervantio or something I believe, he's all the rage at court. The Queen has asked if he can visit wearing one of those darling little hats those Mexicans wear, they've taken off at the capital. Spain, Mexico, what difference does it make, love, they all speak that useless jibber jabber.

That was over the top, sorry. Still, racism is not defined by rejection of an entirety - if anything, we have consistently assimilated what we find positive in a culture and thrown the rest away... That said, more modern definitions include any form of preconceived opinion, which to me is something all people do with all other people, making it uselessly broad. Probably also why the subject in fiction gets so quickly heated and pointless - everyone is using different definitions, different levels of wrong, etc.