153434 réponses à ce sujet

[nikki-tikki]

It's a trope for a reason. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, it's just that usually the writing that goes along with it, is weak.  The writers end up not developing the other characters so what happens is the mary sue is the only one that can possibly do anything so they imbue with them with all sorts of ridiculous powers. The Inquisitor - as they stand now in game - is essentially a mary sue. We may see this change as the Inquisition makes more enemies and loses power. 

 

I love bashing the trope because it's so funny - thus the list.  But again, I don't partifcularly mind it and it's fun when roleplaying.  Also my favorite Mary-Sue - http://vhenantrash.t...llow-star-shine

 

All hail Willow-Star*Shine

[BoscoBread]

<snip>!

 

I never got why people called characters like Fiona  Mary Sues anyways, considering she has made enormous mistakes. 

Huh???? Why would anyone call Fiona a mary-sue???

[BoscoBread]

But, see, it's not Mary-Sue enough. For that to be the case she'd have to spell her name Wyllow Star-Shyne. The more unique the name, the more unique the character - and EVERYone knows that you spell everything with a 'y' to be unique!

 

Joking aside, Mary Sues tend to be painfully obvious not just because they are the clear best and perfect-est at everything but because the rest of the writing tends to be bad. All the focus is on the fantasy of oneself as the inserted character and the rest of the story is incidental to that. I'm not sure Fiona counts as a Mary Sue just because she's a written character when our PCs do a lot of the same amazing things. It's the nature of a video game, though it is also why I like the occasions where your character "loses" a mission or ends up thrown in a dungeon. It gets boring to be amazing all the time, and hey, some of your goddamn companions can get off their arses and come save you for once.

Yeah. it's the writing where it's painfully obvious and I think the term was borne out of fan-fiction anyway with what..star trek?   regardless of origins, i think it's just weak writing. the writer doesn't know how to manage side-characters.  how to write meaningful interactions between the main character and others, so they have to imbue with them with literally every skill just so the main character can get **** done. 

 

i've seen some funny ones where the writer recognized there was some 'sue-ness' and they had fun with it.  i think if you play with the trope - like any trope - it can be done really well and usually turns out some decent comedy writing. which there isn't enough of in fan-fiction.

[Kestrel]

So true. I had lines and even whole ideas come to me earlier as I was out for a walk. Like nooo, I already have plenty. 

 

How's your fluff vs non-fluff struggle going?

 

I managed to write a chapter that wasn't fluffy. =o 

 

And then I spoiled it by writing Abelas fluff because I have literally zero self-control.

[Felya87]

It gets boring to be amazing all the time, and hey, some of your goddamn companions can get off their arses and come save you for once.

 

Eh. That's one of the things I loved more about DAO (expecially if Oghren and Zev go to the rescue! )

It happen in the KotoRs too, and those are some of my preferred parts of the games. I can't understand why BioWare doesn't give us any of those mission anymore...(I was already happy with Joker in ME2 saving the ship)

[Cee]

I managed to write a chapter that wasn't fluffy. =o 

 

And then I spoiled it by writing Abelas fluff because I have literally zero self-control.

 

I'm trying to get something more fluffy written, though still battling the rush of ideas in general.

 

Right now, I'm stuck trying to name a character. My Lavellan's training partner who eventually became her first love. I've rejected many at this point, but once I have her name, a lot of things, I think, will flow better.

[coldwetn0se]

The term (Mary Sue) has been twisted to encompass a number of "dislikeable" or "unrelatable" character traits. When it comes to characters like Fiona (just as an example, since she has been used in this discussion), she can fall under those two traits for some people.

I personally am unsure what catch-all term would best describe these traits in fictional characters, but I do use the descriptor of "Soap Opera Syndrome", if applicable. Fiona for example, has had so many unique events and occurrences befall her, that she can seem to some, as unrelatable. Similar to many Soap Opera personalities who end up blind, kidnapped, found a lost twin, came back from the dead, kidnapped again, child was switched at birth, husband/wife/lover leaves/gets murdered/gets kidnapped/cheats/cheats again/etc....you get the point. In a soap opera, where that sort of thing is a main staple, it is fantastical and farcical for a reason. And people somewhat expect it. In books, movies, series, or story based games, there is a fine line as to how far many who consume these fictions, will "allow" those soap opera elements to go. If that line is crossed (even if it is just perceived to be crossed by only a few), those characters might end up vilified. At least to a degree.

As others have pointed out, toss in the general disdain that some have for elves and mages, and Fiona is painted with a giant bullseye on her back. My own personal thoughts are, she isn't exactly my favorite character (and mostly based on that which I have gleaned from others, of her portrayal in Assunder), but I certainly don't have it out for the poor lady. I also don't feel I can fairly judge her anyways, since I never read the book, and her part in DAI just isn't meaty enough for me to elaborate on.

Just my .02. Nothing more.

[Cee]

Eh. That's one of the things I loved more about DAO (expecially if Oghren and Zev go to the rescue! )

It happen in the KotoRs too, and those are some of my preferred parts of the games. I can't understand why BioWare doesn't give us any of those mission anymore...(I was already happy with Joker in ME2 saving the ship)

Depending how it's done, it can feel more realistic, but I think maybe in a game sense, it might also begin to feel somewhat gimmicks? I know sometimes when an author switches POVs in the middle of a book, it can be harder to get into another character's voice right away. It depends on the person and the game. ME2's bit with Joker was excellent.

 

The DA:O jail thing was great for those shirtless Alistair screenshots.

[MoonDrummer]

Eh. That's one of the things I loved more about DAO (expecially if Oghren and Zev go to the rescue! )

It happen in the KotoRs too, and those are some of my preferred parts of the games. I can't understand why BioWare doesn't give us any of those mission anymore...(I was already happy with Joker in ME2 saving the ship)

The Broma brothers! lol 

[Elira]

I don't comprehend Dagna hate. Like, at all. She's adorable and chipper and sweet, and I love her. Her personality is infectious and uplifting, which with the world ending at the hands of a wannabe god Magister and causing plenty to be negative cookies, is a nice breath of fresh air. Blargh. People can be annoyed by her voice all they want, but I'll continue wanting to hug-squish her every time she speaks. I love Laura Bailey. Yes, she's in so much, but I adore her. Pffffft. I've been a fangirl of hers for years, so maybe having a girl crush on Laura Bailey plays into my liking Dagna (and Bianca) but nonetheless, why hate Dagna? I don't agree with nor like the Bianca hate (same with Fiona), but to an extent I can see where they're coming from. Dagna, though? Dagna? I'm just...I need to a flip table. Excuse me. Character hate gets on my nerves to the max. I can understanding not liking a character, but expressing your dislike and hate at every chance? I'll be seeing myself out, then. It would be nice if there were as many people expressing like as there are dislike out there. And I'm not even going to get into my issues with people using "Mary-Sue!" and "Gary-Stu!" as refutes. That term has become so broad and derogatory nowadays, to me it's hardly used adequately any longer. It's true meaning is too disputable. 

 

*Coughs.* All right. I'm done. I've done my share of ranting. I apologize it, erm, annoys anyone. I just have some pent up frustration directed at negative cookies that I needed to release. I'll attempt to redirect myself to back on topic-ness.

 

On topic: Solas' eyes. My Lavellan undoubtedly stared into them for awkwardly long periods. and with incredibly bad timing.

 

". . .Inquisitor, is there something on my face?"

 

"No. . . No, there isn't. Well, there is, but that's not- It's not. . . Uhm. . ." Awkward laugh; loses self in eyes again.

 

". . ."

[MoonDrummer]

...There's Dagna hate? ...How?

[Heidirs]

...There's Dagna hate? ...How?

 

That was my reaction. Excuse me, what? 

[Felya87]

...? Dagna??? Is pratically like hating a kitten. Only psycopaths and the Devil must hate her...

[drake2511]

People over the internet hate everything. I bet someone would rant about cute little baby pandas for being too cute.

 

Lol at this:

 

"Varric will be so mad, Solas."

http://c4nnib47.tumb...be-so-mad-solas

[yetanothername]

Sometimes it's all just some sort of Third Law for people. A lot of times, really - it's the same as the hype effect. The more some people profess their adoration for something, the more there is a pushback - something you'd shrug at and say, "I guess that wasn't a total waste of time" become rage points when contrasted with expectation or fandoms. The stronger the love, the bigger the hate reaction, even if no one started out with strong feelings.

Additionally, while some seem to look for any excuse to voice their negative feelings, there are those that will not tolerate anything they love to have flaws or negative associations, and any points against will become louder and louder in an attempt to 'drown out' the raised-voices of the other party.

I often don't have any real opinions on characters like this, but I certainly possess reflexes that respond negatively to having the opinions of others decide mine, or what mine mean. My response to anyone saying "no one could possibly..." is "hehe." In good times, this helps me try to offer voice to opinions I feel are being overwhelmed, misunderstood, or otherwise poorly represented. When not careful though, this can easily manifest in knee-jerk disliking something simply because many people are already aboard the train.

 

Also, because duty calls:

 

[Heidirs]

...? Dagna??? Is pratically like hating a kitten. Only psycopaths and the Devil must hate her...

 

So I checked the Bianca thread. Apparently she's too happy for some people.

 

I can understand that... even if I roll my eyes in the process.

[Avejajed]

I'm here to talk to ThirdMouse. Is he/she here atm?

[Felya87]

So I checked the Bianca thread. Apparently she's too happy for some people.

 

I can understand that... even if I roll my eyes in the process.

 

...is like hating Mordin for singing...

[Kestrel]

Writing fan fiction that focuses specifically on your Lavellan, rather than being left open to interpretation or for people to self insert, can be tricky. There are so many other pieces of fiction out there, and many of them are well written. To stand out at this point in the game, you have to give something unique, that hasn't been seen before. I think that's where the tendency to come up with characters who seem so perfect, so utterly flawless- because that's how some think they'll stand out. To each their own, I suppose. 

[BoscoBread]

...is like hating Mordin for singing...

I think it's her overt cheerfulness and the fact that she rambles a bit.  I appreciate Solas' economy of words.  Dude knows how to say it and say it quickly.  I can get impatient with the info. dmps. I also wonder if it's because the Inquisitor(and if I remember correctly the Warden) come off as just a bitexasperated or just straight up annoyed when dealing with her. So the player is taking a queue from the PC.  I dunno.  I like Dagna. I think she's adorable. Smart. Excited about her work.   I think she's a great addition to the Inqusition and I'm glad my Warden helped her follow her dreeeaaammms. 

[Avejajed]

Sometimes it's all just some sort of Third Law for people. A lot of times, really - it's the same as the hype effect. The more some people profess their adoration for something, the more there is a pushback - something you'd shrug at and say, "I guess that wasn't a total waste of time" become rage points when contrasted with expectation or fandoms. The stronger the love, the bigger the hate reaction, even if no one started out with strong feelings.

Additionally, while some seem to look for any excuse to voice their negative feelings, there are those that will not tolerate anything they love to have flaws or negative associations, and any points against will become louder and louder in an attempt to 'drown out' the raised-voices of the other party.

I often don't have any real opinions on characters like this, but I certainly possess reflexes that respond negatively to having the opinions of others decide mine, or what mine mean. My response to anyone saying "no one could possibly..." is "hehe." In good times, this helps me try to offer voice to opinions I feel are being overwhelmed, misunderstood, or otherwise poorly represented. When not careful though, this can easily manifest in knee-jerk disliking something simply because many people are already aboard the train.

 

Also, because duty calls:

 

 

Found you.

 

I like you. 

 

That is all.

[Cee]

I think it's her overt cheerfulness and the fact that she rambles a bit.  I appreciate Solas' economy of words.  Dude knows how to say it and say it quickly.  I can get impatient with the info. dmps. I also wonder if it's because the Inquisitor(and if I remember correctly the Warden) come off as just a bitexasperated or just straight up annoyed when dealing with her. So the player is taking a queue from the PC.  I dunno.  I like Dagna. I think she's adorable. Smart. Excited about her work.   I think she's a great addition to the Inqusition and I'm glad my Warden helped her follow her dreeeaaammms. 

 

I was so glad to see her in Inquisition, and love her. She's weird, she's perky, she's cheerful, she's excited about what she does and all the possibilities of everything. But I know some people don't like people like that.

 

 

Side note, I may have found a name for that character I mentioned. This will help a lot.

[MoonDrummer]

I think it's her overt cheerfulness and the fact that she rambles a bit.  I appreciate Solas' economy of words.  Dude knows how to say it and say it quickly.  I can get impatient with the info. dmps. I also wonder if it's because the Inquisitor(and if I remember correctly the Warden) come off as just a bitexasperated or just straight up annoyed when dealing with her. So the player is taking a queue from the PC.  I dunno.  I like Dagna. I think she's adorable. Smart. Excited about her work.   I think she's a great addition to the Inqusition and I'm glad my Warden helped her follow her dreeeaaammms. 

I may have told her to stay with her dad.

 

She ignored me though, so yeah.

[yetanothername]

Found you.

 

I like you. 

 

That is all.

 

That made me laugh, thanks.