greetings falons, I made a thing!
it's sort of the bastard child of a Solas dating sim and a choose-your-own-adventure book
also i sort of started getting sloppy towards the end so if i've misplaced a link please lemme know
This is almost as beautiful as the Fenders hatesex fic I presented to Varric.
(that entire scene with Varric made me laugh far too much)
Literally me reading over the last few pages:
*snip*
Well it could have been interesting, if BabyPuncher would explain his/her point and avoid the gotcha stuff. More interesting than GIFspam, anyway.
I must disagree. These traits of character are qualities of their own and they can strongly influence if we like somebody or not. For me, aggression and arrogance are not tolerable (of those you mentioned). Everybody may have them, but I am not able to keep in touch with somebody who does. And the same can be said about the other examples you mentioned. If somebody is "too silly", "too loud", "too polite" etc., i.e. if it is a trait of character and not only a momentary occurrence, this will determine how we judge and hence like that person.
Maybe, but I tend to look at the whole package. For instance, I didn't actually like that Alistair tended to be weak-willed and whiny, but I still went with his romance for most of my characters. Ultimately it's about what works best as a story. None of my PCs are perfect people, either, and it's a character's flaws that make them interesting as often as their strengths.
Not sure I could do that after the comics, though. Killing Loghain in his Landsmeet tantrum is one thing, but seeing him essentially do the same thing to Yavana was the last straw.
And, naturally we all have a type or types we tend to prefer. I don't like Solas' arrogance and inflexibility, but I can handle it better than Sera's because his is based on rationality that can be appealed to, whereas Sera's is based in immaturity and raw emotion. There's nothing more annoying to me than the "child in a woman's body" trope. I think BW also reaches too often for the formulas with these romances.
You have no idea how happy it makes me to see Ariane included in fanart of elven companions. So many people just forget her. She needs to come back, preferably with Finn (she's Best Duel Wield Warrior, the two of them together are Best Odd Couple).
Yes, I'd love to see her and Finn again. 
I really like them both. (And they're just kind of adorable together hehe)
As for fanart, seeing lovely fanart of her is rare. The only other good Ariane fanart I know of is this one, where she's also included among the other elven companions.
Maybe, but I tend to look at the whole package. For instance, I didn't actually like that Alistair tended to be weak-willed and whiny, but I still went with his romance for most of my characters. Ultimately it's about what works best as a story. None of my PCs are perfect people, either, and it's a character's flaws that make them interesting as often as their strengths.
Not so much "maybe" even, you actually say the same I said: what trait is "important" (i.e. character defining) is subjective and depends on many factors (e.g. the frequency of occurrence). The same applies to how we interpret it and if it bothers us in the first place. Example: I am not bothered much by Sera, because I see a good person underneath it all. I see the "motivation", even if her behavior is flawed, so I am more forgiving. With this opinion I judge the same person subjectively and very differently than you probably do.
BabyPuncher tried to tell us that there is a clear classification of traits of character, "significant" (important) vs. "irrelevant" (less important). The former he called "qualities", the latter "personality". And this is just not right, I'd say. A person is a unity of different traits and every observer will weigh these differently, thus drawing different conclusions. What one considers a flaw (e.g. pride) another one might happily embrace.
(And this is all said disregarding cultural, religious, political etc. differences, which strongly influence our perceptions and judgements and add yet another dimension to the already subjective classification.)
Ah, I see. In that case I even played or tried a few of them myself. When you said "indie", I guess I expected something even more... uh... independent. With basically no budget like I can find it in the "Indie" section of XBox Marketplace etc.
Oh, you wanted more indie than that? Alrighty then. Depression Quest (that one game that started Gamergate), Hate Plus, Analogue: A Hate Story (basically everything Christine Love does), Type:Rider, Windosill, Ibb & Obb, Continue?9876543210, Kairo, Pid, The Stanley Parable, The Swapper, Year Walk, Among The Sleep, Kentucky Route Zero, Planet Alpha 31, Eidolon...
And some that have been kickstarted and are still in production, but show good promises: Night in the Woods & Hyper Light Drifter.
A lot of those are gonna be available on Xbox marketplace, steam & PSN, because that's the main hope for indie developers to have their work picked up and get popular/make money. I'm only sharing those I love/enjoy the Art Direction the most, but there are tons more, of course. When you check regularly the "waiting to be Greenlighted" section on Steam, you actually see a lot of low quality stuff as well, so I tend to be more interested in those that have peculiar & original concept/gameplay/art direction.
Never Alone is another I've been meaning to pick up. It looks pretty fantastic.
Never Alone was cute and very interesting for discovering a culture and lore I had almost no previous knowledge of, and I found the story charming, but on a pure gameplay level, it was quite frustrating at times. There are still some bugs left, and collision boxes here and there that are faulty enough to make the player rage. Especially when things are time limited, and you have to be super duper precise about all of your movements. I enjoyed it a lot still, because of all the things I learnt (really loved all those documentary bits here and there), but I don't think I'll ever play it again.
Well it could have been interesting, if BabyPuncher would explain his/her point and avoid the gotcha stuff. More interesting than GIFspam, anyway.
Maybe, but I tend to look at the whole package. For instance, I didn't actually like that Alistair tended to be weak-willed and whiny, but I still went with his romance for most of my characters. Ultimately it's about what works best as a story. None of my PCs are perfect people, either, and it's a character's flaws that make them interesting as often as their strengths.
Not sure I could do that after the comics, though. Killing Loghain in his Landsmeet tantrum is one thing, but seeing him essentially do the same thing to Yavana was the last straw.
And, naturally we all have a type or types we tend to prefer. I don't like Solas' arrogance and inflexibility, but I can handle it better than Sera's because his is based on rationality that can be appealed to, whereas Sera's is based in immaturity and raw emotion. There's nothing more annoying to me than the "child in a woman's body" trope. I think BW also reaches too often for the formulas with these romances.
I have to agree with you, and thank you for wording it far better than I ever could (I'm so sorry sometimes that my english fails me and limits me in expressing my thoughts, ugh...lol, I have wrote and erased so many replies in the past because...I fail at expressing them properly).
I also tend to like the characters for the whole package, and that means the good and the bad. The liking factor is indeed in seeing their flaws as well. And how they tie with the overall story. Though I am always curious to try other romances as well, just for the fun of it, because effort is poured into the writing of all characters.
And also yes, I do like to see the beliefs of characters backed up, like it is the case for Solas, and with a determined mind set, rather than based on raw emotion, as is the case with Sera. Still, I do value her other traits, she is....interesting for sure. 
BabyPuncher tried to tell us that there is a clear classification of traits of character, "significant" (important) vs. "irrelevant" (less important). The former he called "qualities", the latter "personality". And this is just not right, I'd say. A person is a unity of different traits and every observer will weigh these differently, thus drawing different conclusions. What one considers a flaw (e.g. pride) another one might happily embrace.
I'm not sure that's what he was saying. He'd have to come back to explain it himself.
And also yes, I do like to see the beliefs of characters backed up, like it is the case for Solas, and with a determined mind set, rather than based on raw emotion, as is the case with Sera. Still, I do value her other traits, she is....interesting for sure.
I think with her, you're meant to either accept her as she is or not, since until she grows up, she's not going to change- and with an adult who acts like a child, you can't count on them ever growing up. That's as true with anyone else, too, I guess. Solas didn't fundamentally change in the romance, either. He still chose his plan over getting the girl. I'd say that's preferable to me than an NPC totally changing for the PC. I can respect it in Solas. Sera, she can just stay in her loft and eat jam and plot petty rebellions.
Yes, I'd love to see her and Finn again.
As for fanart, seeing lovely fanart of her is rare. The only other good Ariane fanart I know of is this one, where she's also included among the other elven companions.
Spoiler
I just realised that the elven glory picture is missing two elves - Talis and Sketch.
I wonder if this person goes into other threads to pick fights as well, or we're all just wildly special.
[On the so charmingly named "Babypuncher"]
Yes, he does. I would really recommend kill filing him...
I'm not sure that's what he was saying. He'd have to come back to explain it himself.
I think with her, you're meant to either accept her as she is or not, since until she grows up, she's not going to change- and with an adult who acts like a child, you can't count on them ever growing up. That's as true with anyone else, too, I guess. Solas didn't fundamentally change in the romance, either. He still chose his plan over getting the girl. I'd say that's preferable to me than an NPC totally changing for the PC. I can respect it in Solas. Sera, she can just stay in her loft and eat jam and plot petty rebellions.
I admit I was so taken aback by her, when I first encountered her. Didn't do any research for her character before I started the game, so it was a surprise, lol. I do appreciate the salt and pepper she brings to the table,so to speak, lol. But yes, her childlike behavior can be off putting at times, and I understand why some people are rather split in opinions regarding her.
I'm rather neutral to be honest, because in my mind, my Inquisitor did not have the time to parent or pamper any of the characters. Sure, empathy and counsel, advice and basically anything that is within a normal range of interaction goes, but I simply imagine that with such a big war going on and such important issues that the Inquisition had to face each day, decisions and preferences would have to revolve around the bigger picture. So, while my Inquisitor might not align with the views of others, she would see them, and Sera, as assets which could help the Inquisition. After all, some see your Inquisitor as an asset as well, and place their beliefs and expectations on your character as well.
But phospheeeeeeene. What if I don't wanna slow my roll?
Hey, I did the same...
Was that wrong?
[On the so charmingly named "Babypuncher"]
Yes, he does. I would really recommend kill filing him...
I do hear a lot of people complain about him/her but I haven't yet seen anything that offended me. Maybe I frequent the wrong threads but I've met far worse people on the BSN.
I just realised that the elven glory picture is missing two elves - Talis and Sketch.
(Hmm, I know it's not fair but I'm okay with Tallis not being there... 
)
But yeah, Sketch should have been included.
And regarding Sera, I think I'm starting to appreciate her as a character. Don't get me wrong, I still want to wring her neck from time to time but I am liking her much better now than I did before. She's still not besties with my Tala, however, even during a second PT (because of the elfy thing 
).
Sera is the type of character I can't play without, and I can't help but love even though she's irritating and racist at times.
She's like that annoying & unpredictable yet lovable little sister, to my Inquisitor.
It'd be quite boring to only have characters having every sides of their personalities easily lovable to everybody. It doesn't make them real to me.
Sera is the type of character I can't play without, and I can't help but love even though she's irritating and racist at times.
Racist?
(And thanks for the suggestions, I will have a look. I stayed away from very indie so far for the poor quality you mentioned too.)
[On the so charmingly named "Babypuncher"]
Yes, he does. I would really recommend kill filing him...
Well, maybe, but I didn't see anything particularly objectionable. I prefer a diverse group of people to a knitting circle.
Sera is the type of character I can't play without, and I can't help but love even though she's irritating and racist at times.
She's like that annoying & unpredictable yet lovable little sister, to my Inquisitor.
It'd be quite boring to only have characters having every sides of their personalities easily lovable to you. It doesn't make them real to me.
She's a bit too unrelenting, and often just nasty. I hated it when Merrill would turn dippy at various points, but she was easier to tolerate.
Same for Vivienne, for me. Contrast to Morrigan, she was just uniformly nasty without enough humor and humanity to balance it.
Racist?
(And thanks for the suggestions, I will have a look. I stayed away from very indie so far for the poor quality you mentioned too.)
Her reaction towards an elf Inquisitor is nothing but prejudice about her race. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
And let me know which one you'd have played and loved!
She's a bit too unrelenting, and often just nasty. I hated it when Merrill would turn dippy at various points, but she was easier to tolerate.
Same for Vivienne, for me. Contrast to Morrigan, she was just uniformly nasty without enough humor and humanity to balance it.
She has a huge backstory that we barely even know of, and I'm sure there are good explanations to why she is the way she is. Still, her nastiness is one side of her personality, and there are many other very interesting ones. I can understand if it'd be enough to stop you from loving her altogether, but reducing her to it would be wrong.
I feel like Sera has been living a hard life, being prejudiced against, and repressing a lot of things, and having grown to fear some stuff A LOT. It's easy to hate her for her reaction towards the things she fears the most, but it'd also be feeling superior to her conditioning/alienation, thinking we don't have any because we're not experiencing hers. I don't know if I quite make myself clear here, but I can understand her knee-jerk reactions towards the things she fears so much.
What I don't like about her, though, is her inability to introspection, to self-criticize and analyze why she acts the way she acts. But then again, that'd be hating her for her inability to see her own conditioning/alienation, and that wouldn't be fair at all. Most of us stay blind about them our whole lives, so who would I be, to start criticizing her for that? It irks me, but I understand how hard it is to start opening our eyes on those things and start challenging everything you built your life on.
If anything, it gives me hope to see her character being more developed in the future, because there's DEFINITIVELY room for it. I feel like they could have done it in DA:I, but haven't (maybe lacked time?), hence why maybe most people are so understandably frustrated about her.
Tl;dr: My faves are problematic, but I still love them. Hell, my whole family is problematic, but I still love them to death (while getting into arguments with them for being problematic).
I do hear a lot of people complain about him/her but I haven't yet seen anything that offended me. Maybe I frequent the wrong threads but I've met far worse people on the BSN.
I usually give people two or three chances before kill filing... But this guy failed the test. I don't have time to deal with... How shall I describe him??? Immature personalities.
Her reaction towards an elf Inquisitor is nothing but prejudice about her race. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
And let me know which one you'd have played and loved!
If you take Sera's first line to Lavellan ('aaaaaaaand... you're an elf. Hope you're not too elfy') and replace 'elf' and 'elfy' with any real world race/sexuality/gender idenity/religion it really becomes apparent just how offensive the line is. It's easy to write off as not being racist because it's a fantasty race but it really is.
Still love Sera though. She's far more complex than just being an obnoxious loud mouth.
Well, maybe, but I didn't see anything particularly objectionable. I prefer a diverse group of people to a knitting circle.
I don't like knitting circles either but this guy went out of his way, though not today.
If you take Sera's first line to Lavellan ('aaaaaaaand... you're an elf. Hope you're not too elfy') and replace 'elf' and 'elfy' with any real world race/sexuality/gender idenity/religion it really becomes apparent just how offensive the line is. It's easy to write off as not being racist because it's a fantasty race but it really is.
Still love Sera though. She's far more complex than just being an obnoxious loud mouth.
Actually I think that's a quote from House: "Aaaaaand he's black..."
I think he was referring to the prison psychiatrist sent to assess him... Yes. House definitely had multiple issues... To put it politely.
If you take Sera's first line to Lavellan ('aaaaaaaand... you're an elf. Hope you're not too elfy') and replace 'elf' and 'elfy' with any real world race/sexuality/gender idenity/religion it really becomes apparent just how offensive the line is. It's easy to write off as not being racist because it's a fantasty race but it really is.
Still love Sera though. She's far more complex than just being an obnoxious loud mouth.
I totally agree with you here.
And I feel that Vivienne is also more complex than what we see. I may not ever agree with her political and social views, but we have no idea what her youth in Wycome was like either. It's a shame these characters sometimes feel underdeveloped, because it then makes them appear very stereotyped/one-sided, and easy then to dismiss/hate.
Actually I think that's a quote from House: "Aaaaaand he's black..."
I think he was referring to the prison psychiatrist sent to assess him... Yes. House definitely had multiple issues... To put it politely.
Yeah, talk about entitlement there! Still cannot not love him though, because Hugh Laurie. But yeah, *insert Jean-Ralphio singing pose* problemaaaaaatiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic!
Her reaction towards an elf Inquisitor is nothing but prejudice about her race. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
And let me know which one you'd have played and loved!
<snip>
I wouldn't say you're wrong, I just have another opinion here. I don't think she is racist (as in "all elves are worth less than other races"). I think she is biased, yes, but her prejudices are against a mindset, in this case the Dalish attitude. She has no problem with elves but with "elfy people". (Of course, on first sight she expects this to be true for a Dalish elf more than for a human.) I assume she is not judgemental of city elves in the first place. In the end, her prejudices boil down to a dislike of a particular religion (elven gods etc.) and mindset (the Dalish seclusion and their tendency to feel superior to others, e.g. city elves). The first I dislike, the latter I understand well because I found it off-putting myself in the previous games. Still, both are prejudices, there I agree.
What do you think of The Unfinished Swan? (Is that indie at all?) I am not really into platforming/exploring, which is probably why indie games have rarely reached my heart so far. But from a purely artistic point of view I see the appeal. And TUS should be really interesting for you, considering how original it is?
The rest I applaud.
I totally agree with you here.
And I feel that Vivienne is also more complex than what we see. I may not ever agree with her political and social views, but we have no idea what her youth in Wycome was like either. It's a shame these characters sometimes feel underdeveloped, because it then makes them appear very stereotyped/one-sided, and easy then to dismiss/hate.
Vivienne is totally far more complex than her haters give her credit for. She and Sera are the reason I wish I could dig into the backstories a little more and actually argue with them about their views.
EDIT: There's fanart of all the Inner Circle as kids and the Viv one is just amazing. It shows her using magic with an expression that is half delight and half terror. It really makes you think about what she was like as a child and how she became the woman she is today.
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